IRC log of #zope3-dev for Tuesday, 2005-02-01

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GaryPosterhi y'all.  Two related questions about datetimeutils.  I needed something to localize a naive datetime.datetime (i.e., add a timezone) on the basis of system time.  I decided to harden them using the approach in datetimeutils, so I leveraged some protected (_*) methods in datetimeutils and got something that does the job in five or six lines.  My questions: does something like this exist already?  If not, anyone mind if I check it into03:08
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dreamcatcherniemeyer: ping15:01
dreamcatcherniemeyer: trying to convince stephan to use your dateutil module for parsing dates on z3, care to pitch in? :)15:02
niemeyerSure! :)15:03
* niemeyer checks the mailing list15:03
dreamcatcherthank you15:03
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niemeyerdreamcatcher: Got in the thread.. thanks for pointing it to me!15:20
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mgedminI have a question about menus and i18n16:37
mgedminare menu titles i18n message IDs?16:37
mgedminif so, do I need to explicitly say i18n:translate="" when I use tal:content="menuitem/title"?16:38
mgedminthe rotterdam skin does so, and I'm not sure why16:38
srichterI think they are message ids16:39
dreamcatchermgedmin: i think the rotterdam skin may predate message ids *wink*16:39
srichterbut just because you call menitem/title does not mean they get translated16:39
srichteri18n:translate="" tells the title to be translated16:39
mgedminI recall a discussion on zope3-dev about automatic translation of message IDs when they are included in page templates16:40
mgedminat the time message IDs got translated even without i18n:translate=""16:41
mgedminwas that changed?16:41
srichterno, we never had this functionality16:41
* mgedmin blinks16:42
srichterit was proposed to do that16:42
mgedminI'll believe you ;-)16:42
srichterbut Jim vetoed this proposal16:42
J1mexplicit is better than implicit16:42
J1mactually, I didn't veto the proposal16:43
J1mbecause there never was a proposal16:43
J1mWhen I sked for a proposal, the potential proposers ran out of steam16:43
srichterbecause they saw no hope to get it passed ;-)16:44
J1mWhen I asked for a proposal, the potential proposers ran out of steam16:44
srichterwhich is good, I totally agree with you16:44
mgedminapproach #12 from :-)16:45
* mgedmin changes the topic16:46
J1mI actually thought they were making some reasonable arguments16:46
dreamcatcheri dont quite agree. i think it's moving explicitness the wrong way. explicitness in code should have precedence over explicitness in display, but im not too strong on that :)16:46
J1m(I don't remember what they were)16:46
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mgedminif I get a 500 Internal Server Error in a functional doctest, what is the easiest way to get the traceback?16:46
J1mI had (and still have) an open mind on the topic.16:46
J1mIf that doesn't work, or is insufficuent, then pass handle_errors=False to http16:47
J1mThen you can do post-mortem debugging16:47
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faassen<mgedmin> at the time message IDs got translated even without i18n:translate=""17:11
faassen<mgedmin> was that changed?17:11
faassen<srichter> no, we never had this functionality17:11
faassenin Zope 2, it works that way right now.17:11
faassenwe're using this in Silva.17:11
faassenas far as I know.17:11
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regebroHi all! I just ran into a (mainly stylistic) problem: In CMF, when you want a form to do something, like remove attendees from a calendar event, you write a little method on the object, or make a python script.18:41
regebroI guess in Zope3, you make a method on the view, and then configure that up as a page, right? And end the view with a redirect?18:42
regebroIs that the "Zope3ish" way?18:42
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mgedminI think the usual Zope 3 idiom is to have an 'update' method in the view18:44
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mgedminthat checks for various submit buttons in self.request and performs required actions18:45
mgedminusually you will include something like <tal:defs tal:define="dummy view/update" /> at the top of the page template18:45
mgedminand define a self-posting form inside18:45
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regebroAh, OK. Yeah, that gives a nice flexibility in how to build the forms.18:46
SteveAmgedmin: I'd really like to get this dummy tal statement removed from page templates18:46
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SteveAmgedmin: and have the zcml page directive to have a pre-render attribute to say what attribute on the page's view's class is called18:47
SteveAmgedmin: before the page is rendered18:47
regebroYeah, that would be a bit neater.18:48
regebroOK, so I'll do the dummy thing, and I'm easily forward-updateable if we get the pre-render attribute. ;)18:48
J1mSteveA, I hope to propose something along those lines soon19:12
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SteveA|outJ1m: I know that we talked about this a while ago.  I originall proposed a magic attribute.  You counter-proposed an explicit zcml attribute.  I agreed, and said something about doing a proposal.19:21
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J1mSince then, I'v decided I also want to go after what CMFFormController does19:23
J1mAnd Gary has done some interesting things along these lines.19:23
J1mWhich I need to review19:23
SteveAforms isn't the only use-case for the pre-render attribute in zcml, but it is the main one.19:24
SteveAso, are you still keen on a pre-render attribute, or will formcontroller-like stuff make a pre-render attribute unnecessary ?19:32
J1mI don't know the details at the moment. :)19:33
J1mI'm keen on a silution to the problem soon.19:33
J1mI'm keen on a solution to the problem soon.19:33
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SteveA>>> from zope.interface import Interface19:38
SteveA>>> Interface.implementedBy({})19:38
SteveATraceback (most recent call last):19:38
SteveA  File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?19:38
SteveA  File "/home/code/Launchpad/launchpad/lib/zope/interface/", line 314, in implementedByFallback19:38
SteveA    spec = BuiltinImplementationSpecifications.get(cls)19:38
SteveATypeError: dict objects are unhashable19:38
SteveAshould this raise a TypeError?  Or should it just return False?19:39
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J1mIt should raise a TypeError.19:41
J1mBut, later, I'm not so sure19:41
SteveA>>> Interface.implementedBy(1)19:41
SteveAeither {} and 1 should raise TypeError, or {} and 1 should return False19:42
J1mI'd say that a non-callable object should raise TypeError and that a callable object should return False19:42
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SteveAmakes sense for factories in general.19:43
SteveAI don't think bool(something) ever fails19:44
SteveAunless you maliciously make __nonzero__ or __len__ raise19:44
__gotchaSteveA: hi19:45
SteveAhi godefroid19:45
__gotchajust a small question19:45
__gotchais it correct that views have been replaced by multiadapters ?19:45
__gotchaor a wrong supposition ?19:45
SteveAviews are implemented using multiadapters19:45
SteveAthere's still the notion of presentation components19:46
SteveAand a view is a kind of presentation component19:46
SteveAbut at the implementation level, they're all adapters19:46
__gotchaiam I correct if I think that vew being adapters is recent19:47
__gotchaiam I correct if I think that views being adapters is recent19:47
SteveAkind of19:47
__gotchajust to put the pieces together19:47
SteveAthey were always very much adapters, but recently they were unified into a single registry19:47
__gotchathanks a lot19:47
__gotchathat was what i thought I had understood19:47
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mgedminhow do I extract the real object from a ContainedProxy?21:27
mgedminneither removeAllProxies nor getProxiedObject seem to work21:28
mgedminah, there are (at least) two different functions called getProxiedObject21:30
mgedminif I import the one from (instead of zope.proxy), then it works21:30
J1mOf course :)21:30
* mgedmin kan't spell21:32
mgedmin(I meant and
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upsidedownhi all21:45
upsidedowncan one tell me how to run all tests in zope 321:46
upsidedownI'm using windows XP21:46
algamake python be on your path and then run 'python'21:47
upsidedownfrom within zope directory ?21:47
algaare you using a checkout or a release?21:48
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upsidedownI see, there is a in the trunk21:50
algathen it should work21:51
algano problem21:51
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algaI downloaded the release22:25
algaunpacked it22:25
algaran ./configure22:25
algaran make22:26
algaand now 'python' is running the tests22:26
upsidedownon linux ?22:26
algaI don't know what the equivalents are in the Windows package22:26
upsidedownwhere is on your release22:27
algaconfigure.bat and make.bat? :-)22:27
algabut it did not work before ./configure && make22:27
algahope it helps ;-)22:27
upsidedownon windows you don't need to do configure and make on the release version22:28
upsidedownI copied from the trunk and run it22:28
upsidedownmake on windows is not that easy22:29
upsidedownbut thanks for your help22:29
upsidedownshould change to linux ;)22:30
mgedminisn't there a bin/test in INSTANCE_HOME?22:33
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upsidedownright and it runs my tests in the instance22:38
upsidedownwhen I try to run tests on zope with --dir option it get a traceback22:39
upsidedownFile "C:\PROGRA~1\python23\Lib\site-packages\zope\app\tests\", line 541, in visit22:40
upsidedown    __import__(pkg)22:40
upsidedownValueError: Empty module name22:40
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