| mgedmin | ok, I did that | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| srichter | thanks | 00:01 |
| mgedmin | can someone test whether test.py -1 works again? | 00:01 |
| mgedmin | (my ftests unconditionally turn on that feature, so I see no change with -1 or without it) | 00:01 |
| srichter | I will check it tonight | 00:01 |
| srichter | btw, stub forgot to check in pytz, so my changes have to wait till tomorrow | 00:02 |
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| J1m | srichter, ayt? | 01:06 |
| srichter | J1m: yep | 01:08 |
| J1m | Code that constructs ServiceRegistrations is screwed | 01:09 |
| J1m | They no-longer support the old constructor signature | 01:09 |
| srichter | mmh, I was hoping that noone would do this by hand | 01:10 |
| J1m | well, it used to be necessary to add things like local utility services when you created sites | 01:10 |
| srichter | for tests there is setup | 01:10 |
| J1m | We have code that creates and initializes sites. | 01:10 |
| J1m | I suspect that others do too | 01:10 |
| srichter | and you do not use setup, ztapi, etc. to do this? | 01:11 |
| J1m | I'm willing to assume that we are weird. | 01:11 |
| srichter | ok | 01:11 |
| J1m | This is not test code | 01:11 |
| srichter | oh really? | 01:11 |
| J1m | We allow someone to add a special site | 01:11 |
| srichter | I see | 01:11 |
| J1m | That special site gets configured as it is added. | 01:11 |
| srichter | really, a lot of the test API is useful for this kind of stuff | 01:12 |
| srichter | it should really move to another location | 01:12 |
| J1m | If I remove the code to add the utility service, I get farther | 01:12 |
| J1m | Then a call like: | 01:12 |
| srichter | ok, I look into this tonight | 01:12 |
| J1m | utilities = sm.queryLocalService(zope.component.servicenames.Utilities) | 01:12 |
| J1m | fails with: | 01:13 |
| J1m | ComponentLookupError: (<InterfaceClass zope.component.bbb.service.IService>, 'Utilities') | 01:13 |
| J1m | zope.component.interfaces.ComponentLookupError: | 01:13 |
| J1m | (<InterfaceClass zope.component.bbb.service.IService>, 'Utilities') | 01:13 |
| srichter | oh, darn the error there should be caught of course | 01:14 |
| J1m | It should? | 01:14 |
| srichter | feel free to shoot me personal emails | 01:14 |
| srichter | it is a query* call | 01:14 |
| srichter | note that queryLocalService looks only for local services and will not find the global one' | 01:14 |
| J1m | But should it fail? | 01:14 |
| J1m | doesn't a local site have it's own utilities service? | 01:15 |
| J1m | (or the equivalent) | 01:15 |
| J1m | doesn't a local site have it's own utilities registry? | 01:15 |
| srichter | oh, of course | 01:15 |
| srichter | in the new API it does of course | 01:15 |
| srichter | I probably forgot to add a special if statement for the utility and adapter service | 01:15 |
| srichter | I know I did it for zope.component | 01:16 |
| srichter | yes, it does | 01:16 |
| J1m | So, are the registries equivalent to the services? | 01:16 |
| srichter | every site manager has adapters and utilities | 01:16 |
| srichter | yes | 01:16 |
| J1m | But do these things it has behave like the old services? | 01:16 |
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| srichter | they pretty much have the same API, yes | 01:16 |
| J1m | I really want to get our stuff working again, but I'm afraid that if I just fix our stuff, you'll run into this with someone else later. | 01:18 |
| srichter | yeah, we should have never supported getting the utility service and then lookup a utility this way | 01:18 |
| srichter | getUtility() from zapi is so much nicer | 01:18 |
| srichter | fortunately, I fixed that badness in the trunk | 01:18 |
| J1m | In this case, there was code checking to make sure the utility service was present. | 01:19 |
| srichter | yeah, this is a valid reason | 01:19 |
| J1m | well, it was | 01:19 |
| J1m | It shouldn't be necessary any more | 01:19 |
| srichter | nope :-) | 01:19 |
| srichter | well, I think once you and Roger reported their problems, we should be pretty ok | 01:20 |
| J1m | I'm not exactly sure how to report them. | 01:20 |
| J1m | I'll send you some email | 01:20 |
| srichter | I am a bit afraid of Roger's reports, since he reused a lot of browser code; I have not even attempted to provide BBB for this | 01:21 |
| J1m | what do you mean browser code? | 01:21 |
| srichter | Just say, this API must have changed... like you did here on IRC | 01:21 |
| srichter | I cannot test it anyways | 01:21 |
| srichter | presentation classes == browser code | 01:21 |
| J1m | I still don't know what you mean | 01:22 |
| srichter | like the tools classes | 01:22 |
| srichter | Let's say that someone hypothetically implemented their own custom tool type | 01:22 |
| srichter | they would have used some base classes from zope.app.component.browser | 01:22 |
| srichter | for things like that we have no BBB | 01:23 |
| srichter | but I think that relying on classes in BB is not a good idea anyways, except for some exceptions like zope.app.container.browser | 01:24 |
| J1m | Of course, but the whole point of backward compatibility is that we need to support old code. | 01:24 |
| J1m | Of course, we should only support old "supported" code. | 01:25 |
| J1m | And we haven't solved the problem of making it clear what is supported/public. :( | 01:25 |
| srichter | right | 01:27 |
| srichter | it gets back to my point that we need a way to state what interfaces/classes/functions are public and supported | 01:27 |
| srichter | maybe some flag would be find | 01:27 |
| srichter | __public__ = True | 01:27 |
| J1m | I have suggested in the past that an api is public if it's documented in an interfaces.py or an interfaces package. | 01:29 |
| J1m | I think that that is still workable. | 01:29 |
| J1m | Anything else is non public. | 01:29 |
| J1m | We'll need to discuss this on the list I think. | 01:29 |
| srichter | right, and make it a guideline | 01:30 |
| J1m | It would need to be more than a guidline | 01:30 |
| J1m | It would need to be a contract | 01:30 |
| srichter | right | 01:32 |
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| J1m | I'm pretty sure the LocalUtilityRegistry doesn't implement ILocalUtilityService | 01:45 |
| J1m | I'm guessing that a LocalSiteManager implements much of the old ILocalUtilityService. | 01:47 |
| srichter | yes | 01:50 |
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| J1m | Except that it doesn't implement enough to be backward compatible. | 01:52 |
| J1m | for example, it doesn't implement getLocalUtilitiesFor | 01:53 |
| J1m | But that's not a public api | 01:59 |
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| J1m | so, not a problem there | 01:59 |
| srichter | ok, time for me to go home | 02:01 |
| srichter | see ya later | 02:01 |
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| mgedmin | I ran ./test.py -pv zope in my Zope3 checkout, and ~7 minutes later my system started swapping | 03:12 |
| mgedmin | the python2.3 process that ran test.py ate 409 megs of virtual memory | 03:13 |
| mgedmin | any ideas why? | 03:13 |
| J1m | no | 03:13 |
| J1m | does it happen if you run it again? | 03:13 |
| mgedmin | I'll try | 03:14 |
| J1m | Sounds vaguely familiar. Like maybe related to a bug Tim fixed in ZODB, but I'm not sure. | 03:14 |
| J1m | I'll run the tests and watch w top | 03:14 |
| mgedmin | 100 megs already | 03:15 |
| mgedmin | (still at 24% of unit tests) | 03:15 |
| mgedmin | oops, wrong python2.3 | 03:16 |
| mgedmin | test.py is at 86 megs (45% of unit tests) | 03:16 |
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| mgedmin | 147 megs after 100% of unit tests | 03:18 |
| mgedmin | 190 megs at 33% of ftests | 03:19 |
| J1m | Are you on a 64-bit machine? | 03:19 |
| mgedmin | 245 megs at 47% of ftests | 03:20 |
| mgedmin | no, it's a pentium-IIIM laptop | 03:20 |
| mgedmin | 310 megs at 56% ftests | 03:20 |
| mgedmin | I'm running ubuntu hoary | 03:20 |
| J1m | w python2.3.4, I got up to about 125 megs w the unit tests | 03:21 |
| J1m | I guess I'm seeing about the same memory usage | 03:21 |
| J1m | We realy need to spend some time looking for leaks | 03:22 |
| mgedmin | 390 megs at 93% ftests | 03:22 |
| J1m | Yup, same for me | 03:22 |
| J1m | more or less | 03:22 |
| mgedmin | ram usage stayed pretty constant for the first 20% of ftests | 03:22 |
| mgedmin | but started growing rapidly after that | 03:23 |
| * mgedmin shrugs | 03:23 | |
| J1m | Perhaps we need a disk-based mapping storage :) | 03:23 |
| * J1m shrugs too | 03:24 | |
| J1m | We realy need to spend some time looking for leaks :) | 03:24 |
| J1m | we have some pretty good tools for doing so | 03:24 |
| J1m | I have all of my tests passing now. Yay! | 03:24 |
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| xenwryly | hello all | 07:15 |
| xenwryly | is there anyone out there working on any other Z3 skins other than Rotterdam, ZopeTop and Basic? | 07:15 |
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| zagy | moin | 10:14 |
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| srichter | mgedmin: I just checked in a lot of goodies for you. :-) | 16:27 |
| srichter | mgedmin: zope.i18n.format should now be ready and useful for your calendaring app. | 16:28 |
| srichter | let me know, if there are other issues left | 16:28 |
| mgedmin | srichter, thanks! | 16:28 |
| mgedmin | I suppose I should write about schoolbell in the mailing list | 16:29 |
| mgedmin | we're not just building a calendaring app; we also want to build a reusable zope 3 calendaring library | 16:29 |
| srichter | yeah, you should | 16:30 |
| srichter | I think we really need a newsletter again | 16:30 |
| srichter | I am so happy that we have timezone support now | 16:31 |
| srichter | now, I just have to get rid of this stupid datetimeutil package and reimplement its functionality using zope.i18n.format | 16:31 |
| srichter | ;-) | 16:31 |
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| SteveA | mgedmin: happy independence day | 16:44 |
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| * Theuni just saw "hula". | 17:03 | |
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| srichter | Theuni: huh? | 17:04 |
| Theuni | the novel netmail server which was just released open source | 17:10 |
| Theuni | amazing thing | 17:10 |
| Theuni | integrated mail/calendar solution. comes with own smtp/ldap/imap/pop/web server, is pretty fast and flexible | 17:10 |
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| srichter | cool | 17:18 |
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| srichter | J1m: do you have a moment? | 17:32 |
| J1m | yes | 17:32 |
| srichter | J1m: so due to the removal of services and special presentation components, there is some opportunity and need to change the API doc tool before 3.1 | 17:33 |
| srichter | any ideas about possible improvements? | 17:33 |
| srichter | I already remvoed the services section, of course | 17:34 |
| * mgedmin perks his ears | 17:34 | |
| srichter | mgedmin: sure any commets are welcomed | 17:34 |
| srichter | for now I left views and adapters separate | 17:35 |
| J1m | 1. Show all adapters. Don't filter out views. | 17:35 |
| srichter | (I detect views by checking whether the last required interface isOrExtends IRequest) | 17:35 |
| J1m | Given that the view apis have been deprecated, we might as well show everything together, | 17:35 |
| srichter | note that for views I can show many interesting things that are not applicable to regular adapters | 17:36 |
| srichter | such as the page template | 17:36 |
| J1m | 2. When showing adapters (for an interface), break them out by the interfaces they were registered for, | 17:36 |
| srichter | and the original class, because for views the class the adapter provides is not the one you specified | 17:36 |
| J1m | For example, separate the adapters registered for * (default) from adapters registered for gneral interfaces, from adapters registered for the specific interface. | 17:37 |
| srichter | ok | 17:37 |
| J1m | 3. Show or ptovid ea way of easily seeing the ZCML used. | 17:37 |
| J1m | Showing zcml should include the file path and position. | 17:37 |
| J1m | Note that if you showed the zcml, then people can see things like the template used. You don't nee special view-handling code. | 17:38 |
| J1m | 3. Show or provide a way of easily seeing the ZCML used. | 17:38 |
| J1m | :) | 17:38 |
| srichter | true, but I do not know whether I like it ;-) | 17:39 |
| J1m | like what? | 17:39 |
| srichter | (but I am writing everything down first) | 17:39 |
| srichter | a view section also allows me to sort views by skin | 17:39 |
| srichter | or layer actually | 17:39 |
| J1m | If you want to sperate the views, then at least show the views for an interface. | 17:40 |
| J1m | If you want to seperate the views, then at least show the views for an interface. | 17:40 |
| J1m | When looking at an interface, I should be able to see all of the adapters, including views immediately. | 17:40 |
| srichter | ok, I am not doing this yet? | 17:40 |
| srichter | yes | 17:40 |
| srichter | Okay, I think I can get rid of most of the view documentation module then and move its funcitonality to the interface code | 17:41 |
| srichter | I like that | 17:42 |
| J1m | No, you are not doing this yet. | 17:42 |
| srichter | so basically you can look for specifications using classes and interfaces | 17:42 |
| srichter | ok, then this was an oversight from the beginning | 17:43 |
| srichter | any ideas about navigation? | 17:43 |
| srichter | I really do not like the tree view of the interfaces anymore | 17:43 |
| J1m | It would be nice to gave a type type module for listing the meta types. | 17:43 |
| srichter | I think I did a better job with the class search interface and browser | 17:43 |
| srichter | J1m: sorry, I did not understand the last sentence (too many types ;-) | 17:44 |
| J1m | It would be nice to have a type type module for listing the meta types. | 17:44 |
| srichter | what types? what meta types? | 17:44 |
| J1m | You get a list of the type types (e.g. ContentType, ToolType, etc. | 17:44 |
| srichter | ohh, I see | 17:45 |
| J1m | You expand a type type and get all of the typs of that type. | 17:45 |
| srichter | this is a cool idea | 17:45 |
| J1m | Maybe call these interface types. | 17:45 |
| J1m | I like the interface tree | 17:45 |
| srichter | yeah | 17:46 |
| srichter | I think this will be very helpful | 17:46 |
| J1m | I don't like the search interface. | 17:46 |
| J1m | It would be useful if the search was a text search | 17:46 |
| J1m | But a python path search isn't useful to me. | 17:46 |
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| J1m | although, maybe I didn't know how to use it correctly. | 17:47 |
| J1m | For search, it would be nice to search based on text. | 17:47 |
| J1m | Someday down the road, we should ahve a tool that uses a full-text index. | 17:48 |
| srichter | yep | 17:48 |
| srichter | I think the Python path is still useful | 17:48 |
| J1m | Someday, it would be nice to have a tool that reads a site configuration and computes a separate database that could be browsed by a separate application. | 17:49 |
| srichter | but I will add an option for that | 17:49 |
| J1m | It's a bit annoying to have to have zope running to use the tool. | 17:49 |
| J1m | And, of course, we don't want apidoc enabled in a production server. | 17:49 |
| srichter | I hope that we eventually will provide an online version | 17:50 |
| J1m | I really like apidoc a lot. | 17:50 |
| srichter | thanks | 17:50 |
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| J1m | OK, is that enough input for now? :) | 17:50 |
| srichter | I actually have not used it much at all (how ironic) | 17:50 |
| srichter | yes, this gets me well-started | 17:51 |
| srichter | mgedmin: any comments? | 17:51 |
| J1m | I'm using it more and more. | 17:51 |
| J1m | It's very handy to review how to use zcml. | 17:51 |
| srichter | I think in 3.1 it will be much more usefull, because 3rd party packages can be registered for the class browser | 17:51 |
| J1m | It's very handy to see what utilities their are (e.g. permissions) | 17:51 |
| srichter | yes, I think that showing the security information was a good idea; I like this info a lot too | 17:52 |
| mgedmin | srichter, I'd be really happy to have a browseable HTML zcml reference to debug zope 3 startup failures | 17:52 |
| J1m | It's very nice for borwsing interfaces or classes that live in deeply nested inheritence hierarchoes, because it provides a flattened view. | 17:52 |
| mgedmin | can't really use apidoc if zope doesn't start because of a zcml error ;) | 17:53 |
| srichter | mgedmin: right, eventually, I hope we will have www.zope3.org/apidoc :-) | 17:53 |
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| mgedmin | I haven't used apidoc for other purposes so far -- usually a recursive grep through all zcml files on an interface or view name is easier for me | 17:54 |
| srichter | J1m|away: maybe we could set this up, once 3.1 is released? | 17:54 |
| srichter | same here; Tom was very interested in apidoc as a way to document SchoolTool | 17:54 |
| srichter | I really should think about a way to generate PDF files | 17:55 |
| mgedmin | srichter, use reportlab | 17:55 |
| srichter | I could do that or I just create TeX and compile it | 17:55 |
| srichter | this way I can use TeX files to define the look and feel | 17:55 |
| mgedmin | that would work too, I suppose | 17:56 |
| * srichter is a big fan of TeX | 17:56 | |
| mgedmin | although for most users, I suspect, it would be much easier to install reportlab than to install TeX | 17:56 |
| srichter | true, but they can use TeX2Word or somesuch tool | 17:56 |
| srichter | of course, we could also generate docbook, so we will have less control of the layout then | 17:57 |
| mgedmin | suppose I have a generic library like schoolbell.relationships | 17:57 |
| mgedmin | http://source.schooltool.org/viewcvs/trunk/schooltool/src/schoolbell/relationship/README.txt?view=auto | 17:58 |
| mgedmin | what would be a good way to produce nice developer documentation for it? | 17:58 |
| mgedmin | pydoc? epydoc? apidoc? | 17:58 |
| srichter | hold on | 17:59 |
| srichter | so apidoc does not handle README.txt files yet; that's another thing I want to finish for 3.1 | 18:00 |
| J1m|away | srichter, we really need to get 3.1 out | 18:00 |
| * mgedmin nods | 18:01 | |
| srichter | I am working on it | 18:01 |
| mgedmin | what is holding up 3.1, by the way? is doc/TODO.txt up to date? | 18:01 |
| srichter | that's the reason I started going through the bugs | 18:01 |
| srichter | mgedmin: no, some tasks can be removed and later bugs need to be added | 18:01 |
| srichter | but it is adjusted to 3.1 already | 18:02 |
| srichter | there are many new XXX comments in src/zope that need to be addressed | 18:02 |
| srichter | I just looked through the newly reported bugs and most of them are not shallow! | 18:03 |
| srichter | so I think the biggest bottleneck right now are bugs and XXX comments | 18:03 |
| srichter | and I do think that having a useful API doctool is as important as fixing bugs and XXX comments | 18:04 |
| mgedmin | I think I know how to fix http://collector.zope.org/Zope3-dev/173 | 18:05 |
| mgedmin | (binding to specific network interfaces) | 18:05 |
| srichter | oh cool | 18:05 |
| mgedmin | the hard part is writing unit tests for ServerType and ServerTypeFactory | 18:05 |
| mgedmin | (there are none at the moment) | 18:06 |
| srichter | mmh, maybe writing some non-integrative unittests would suffice | 18:06 |
| srichter | mgedmin: back to your documentation question; currently apidoc tool is your best bet, since it integrates interfaces and ZCML into the documentation | 18:07 |
| mgedmin | I agree | 18:09 |
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| mgedmin | a question regarding ut.py | 18:19 |
| mgedmin | shouldn't it be changed so that it runs unittest.main(defaultTest='test_suite') at the end? | 18:20 |
| mgedmin | instead of plain unittest.main() | 18:20 |
| srichter | yes! | 18:20 |
| mgedmin | I'll do that then | 18:20 |
| mgedmin | done | 18:23 |
| srichter | thanks | 18:24 |
| * mgedmin discovered the -s option of test.py and is loving it immensely | 18:31 | |
| srichter | yes, I always use --dir | 18:32 |
| srichter | it makes test runs much faster | 18:32 |
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| mgedmin | IServerType.create does not match the signature of ServerType.create | 18:39 |
| mgedmin | I will assume the interface is out of date | 18:39 |
| srichter | I think this is a good guess :-) | 18:39 |
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| projekt01 | Stefan, I fixed the blow service branch migration in Tiks. | 18:44 |
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| srichter | projekt01: oh cool; any hurdles? | 18:52 |
| projekt01 | stefan: no, just replace the deprecated methods and change some classes. | 18:55 |
| srichter | cool | 18:55 |
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| mgedmin | zconfig ip-address type question | 19:21 |
| mgedmin | if I have a zconfig key of type ip-address, and I say | 19:22 |
| mgedmin | listen 127.0.0.1:8080 | 19:22 |
| mgedmin | I think I will get a tuple ('127.0.0.1', 8080) | 19:22 |
| mgedmin | as the value for that setting | 19:22 |
| mgedmin | what will I get if I specify only 'listen 8080'? | 19:22 |
| mgedmin | (None, 8080) or ('', 8080)? | 19:22 |
| mgedmin | never mind, I got the answer | 19:23 |
| mgedmin | if sys.platform[:3] == 'win', I will get ('localhost', 8080) | 19:24 |
| mgedmin | otherwise I will get ('', 8080) | 19:24 |
| mgedmin | <sarcasm>how nice</sarcasm> | 19:24 |
| mooded | hey all.. i know this is zope3-dev, but here are active & skilled ppl ;) maybe anybody knows / remembers how one must import/instantiate classes that are not avail in zope normally (lying somewhere else in filesystem) from zope so that they can reference back into zodb context ? i have a class derived from ObjectManager, Item that serves a DTMLFile... all can be rendered fine except REQUEST and any call referencing to zodb-objects.. any hints ? if not o | 19:26 |
| mooded | r really wrong channel, sorry for disturbance.. | 19:26 |
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| * mgedmin hits a snag | 19:47 | |
| mgedmin | it's a bug in ServerBase! | 19:48 |
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| * mgedmin fixes the bug | 19:57 | |
| mgedmin | I just finished fixing http://collector.zope.org/Zope3-dev/173 | 20:03 |
| srichter | thanks; I close it | 20:07 |
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| tarek_ | Do you, people, have some coverage scripts solution on your tests, using zopectl ? | 20:16 |
| tarek_ | I am trying to set up something to list code that is not tested | 20:17 |
| mgedmin | ./test.py has an option to produce coverage reports | 20:20 |
| mgedmin | I have no clue what zopectl has to do with your question | 20:20 |
| mgedmin | can zopectl be used to run unit tests? | 20:20 |
| tarek_ | yes | 20:20 |
| tarek_ | that's what i use | 20:21 |
| mgedmin | I never knew that ;) | 20:21 |
| tarek_ | i run : zopectl test -vv --dir /your/tests/ | 20:21 |
| mgedmin | I assume it accepts the same set of options as test.py | 20:21 |
| tarek_ | you must be right | 20:21 |
| tarek_ | it's a -c flag or something right ? i am going to take a look. thanks to you | 20:22 |
| mgedmin | try zopectl test --help and look for 'coverage' | 20:22 |
| mgedmin | the option is -T or --trace | 20:22 |
| mgedmin | look for output in a subdirectory named 'coverage' | 20:23 |
| tarek_ | no coverage told on --help | 20:23 |
| tarek_ | ok | 20:23 |
| tarek_ | thx | 20:23 |
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| Damascene | tal:define="actions context/@@view_get_menu/wikipage_actions" <== i copied this from the wiki product. i'm trying to use something similar in my product but instead i get a "page not available" error with no apparent errors in the logs. | 21:13 |
| Damascene | i created a configure.zcml file with menuitem entries that refer to that name as well. | 21:14 |
| Damascene | i'm assuming my configure.zcml is correct as it didn't appear to die on startup. so that seems like the correct tal, but insertion of it gives very vague errors. | 21:15 |
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| Damascene | hm. weird. seems to be working now heh. | 21:33 |
| Damascene | although i wonder if this is the solution i really want. if it's tied too deep with zcml that might be annoying to work with hm. | 21:43 |
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| srichter | projekt01: btw, your ideas about the OnlineHelp sound good | 23:57 |
| srichter | projekt01: but what did you mean by tree status info of the tree and making the tree independent of topic views? | 23:58 |
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