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| projekt01 | srichter, tree status --> just hilight labels in the tree pointing to the topic | 01:44 |
|---|---|---|
| projekt01 | Independent of topic --> build the tree from a global view | 01:45 |
| projekt01 | I tried the cookie tree, but it doesn't work, because of the not simply contextual help lookup | 01:46 |
| projekt01 | The url of a contextual help topic view is something like: http://localhost:8080/folder/contents.html/++help++/@@contexthelp.html | 01:47 |
| projekt01 | The cookie tree doesn't like this url and can't build the url of a child topic if you access a cpntextual help topic view | 01:48 |
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| srichter | oh, ok | 02:01 |
| projekt01 | Hm, yet another javascript tree | 02:01 |
| projekt01 | Are you find if we would add package called javascipt with all javascripts in it for to share? (in skins etc) | 02:03 |
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| projekt01 | Are you find if we would add package | 02:06 |
| projekt01 | Are you fine if we would add a package... | 02:07 |
| srichter | right, good point | 02:07 |
| philiKON | -1 javascripts are either part of a skin or part of a browser view; so they really always have places they belong | 02:08 |
| philiKON | we don't really group other browser resources either, e.g. like icons | 02:08 |
| srichter | yep | 02:08 |
| projekt01 | And if I would like to use a javascript, but not like the dependency to a package? | 02:09 |
| projekt01 | I mean not all javascripts just some libraries | 02:09 |
| philiKON | i think the amount of javascript in a stock zope 3 should be so limited that this is not necessary | 02:10 |
| srichter | actually, I am on/off, so I am not following too well right now | 02:10 |
| srichter | you can do what you want ;-) | 02:10 |
| srichter | noone else is working on it :-) | 02:10 |
| philiKON | in fact, if there's a need of grouping javascript libraries etc., then zope3 has too much javascript | 02:11 |
| philiKON | in other words, too much skin | 02:11 |
| philiKON | projekt01, write a proposal if you feel strongly about it | 02:11 |
| srichter | since we decided that API doc tool is for Py developers and Online help for scripters/end users, I am going to create a online-help like book using the TXT files from the code | 02:11 |
| projekt01 | philiKON, I agree with less then possible javascript | 02:12 |
| projekt01 | Perhaps we can add a package later if we think we whant reuse this javascripts | 02:12 |
| philiKON | do you mean "as little javascript as possible"? | 02:12 |
| projekt01 | Yes | 02:13 |
| projekt01 | Stefan, online-help like book? What do you mean? | 02:13 |
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| philiZZZ | g'night | 02:13 |
| projekt01 | See you | 02:13 |
| projekt01 | srichter, register e.g. authentication/README.txt etc in the onlinehelp | 02:14 |
| srichter | projekt01: I want to compile all the README.txt and other *.txt files to some sort of outlined book | 02:19 |
| projekt01 | Oh, cool. Do you have a tool for that? | 02:19 |
| srichter | no, I am just going to do it using online help topics; I will write a new documentation module for the apidoc tool | 02:20 |
| projekt01 | All topics which are registred with help:register? | 02:21 |
| projekt01 | I hope I can finish my refactoring tonight and you can see how it looks like tomorrow. | 02:22 |
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| srichter | projekt01: no, I am not going to reuse the help:register directive | 04:50 |
| srichter | just the Python code | 04:50 |
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| tvon | Would it be non-trivial to override or create my own version of zope/app/container/browser/contents.pt for my application? | 07:30 |
| BjornT | w/p | 07:33 |
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| projekt01 | I have problems with ftests, I use zapi.getPath(context), this ends in a TypeError in ftests lke: | 12:04 |
| projekt01 | Like: TypeError: Not enough context to determine location root | 12:04 |
| projekt01 | Any ideas? | 12:04 |
| projekt01 | Zapi.getPath(context) is used in a view <browser:page> class | 12:05 |
| philiZZZ | projekt01, your obj doesn't have a __parent__ that goes all the way up to an IContainmentRoot | 12:07 |
| projekt01 | Ok, I check it. | 12:08 |
| projekt01 | Yup, you are right, I add it in the ftests directly and commit it with transaction.commit() | 12:09 |
| projekt01 | Thanks | 12:09 |
| philiZZZ | in ftests it's better to use the addform | 12:09 |
| philiZZZ | via HTTP | 12:09 |
| philiZZZ | that way you get all the necessary context | 12:10 |
| projekt01 | Yes I know, but I don't have a addform for help topics. And there is no contextual topic registred as default where I can test. | 12:11 |
| philiZZZ | ah, ok | 12:12 |
| philiZZZ | that's a special case then | 12:12 |
| apauley | hi all | 12:16 |
| apauley | I just connected to a mysql db using mysqldbda | 12:17 |
| apauley | Are there any docs or examples so that I can see how it is used in a product? | 12:17 |
| apauley | I'd like to (for example) change the storage component of the messageboard app to mysql | 12:18 |
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| srichter | apauley: you would need to use sqlos, but you are pretty much on your own | 13:32 |
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| apauley | srichter: thanks, I'll google a bit for sqlos | 13:56 |
| philiZZZ | apauley, http://codespeak.net/z3/sqlos | 13:58 |
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| srichter | projekt01: how is th eonline help work coming along? | 15:22 |
| projekt01 | The onlinehelp is working, but I have trouble to define the topic structure | 15:24 |
| projekt01 | Any sugestion about how the topic titles should be called / thema's | 15:25 |
| projekt01 | I suggest something like: | 15:25 |
| projekt01 | Developer info | 15:25 |
| projekt01 | Style Guides | 15:25 |
| projekt01 | Where should we place the README.txt files | 15:26 |
| srichter | I put those into an apidoc documentation module | 15:26 |
| srichter | called bookmodule | 15:26 |
| projekt01 | Cool | 15:26 |
| srichter | So under apidoc you will have something like "Book" | 15:26 |
| srichter | and I'll define the structure there | 15:27 |
| srichter | I will create a directive called apidoc:bookchapter (which is effectively a help:register directive for the API doc; I am reusing all that code) | 15:27 |
| projekt01 | Uhaa, then I have definitive to checkin my changes | 15:28 |
| srichter | well at some point, yes | 15:28 |
| projekt01 | Ok, I clean up the help topic registration/order and will checkin the refactoring. | 15:29 |
| srichter | cool | 15:29 |
| srichter | don't forget tests | 15:30 |
| projekt01 | Yes | 15:30 |
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| srichter | projekt01: in the online help topic class, the ending *.txt is interpreted as plain text; can we change this to be ReST? | 15:47 |
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| srichter | projekt01: yipee, I have the book protoype working; I never realized it would be so easy :-) | 16:21 |
| projekt01 | srichter, what kind of output format is it. | 16:31 |
| srichter | what do you mean? | 16:31 |
| srichter | It is basically a special online help | 16:31 |
| projekt01 | srichter, Text format: You can registrer own HelpTopic classes for rendereing your files. | 16:31 |
| srichter | the txt files are oputputted as HTML | 16:32 |
| srichter | ahh, cool | 16:32 |
| projekt01 | There are Topic classes for .stx .rest .txt and .pt | 16:32 |
| srichter | cool | 16:32 |
| projekt01 | They dosn't have to provide a specific file ending | 16:32 |
| srichter | see http://130.64.83.191:8080/++apidoc++ | 16:34 |
| srichter | gandalf | 16:34 |
| srichter | 123 | 16:34 |
| srichter | any Emacs gurus here? | 16:46 |
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| srichter | projekt01: are you there? | 16:59 |
| apauley | srichter: I'm not an emacs guru (I'm more used to vi), but I have recently made an effort to learn it | 17:04 |
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| apauley | I've got the oreilly book | 17:04 |
| srichter | I need to find all txt files in a tree, except for those that contain ".svn" in the path :-) | 17:05 |
| srichter | apauley: and I want to be able to click on them to open them | 17:05 |
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| projekt01 | srichter, I have a problem with naming in onlinehelp the onlinehelp.py defines help as a global name, butt we have also a folder called help. I need to make this folder to a package now. | 17:09 |
| apauley | Is that .svn files or .svn dirs? | 17:09 |
| srichter | projekt01: renaming the global varname from help to something else should be no problem, since it is only used internally | 17:10 |
| srichter | apauley: .svn dirs | 17:11 |
| projekt01 | srichter, OK. Do you agree that just the help:register has to be BBB | 17:11 |
| apauley | I assume you're using emacs' dired on a svn repository? | 17:11 |
| srichter | projekt01: yes | 17:12 |
| projekt01 | Oh, nice | 17:12 |
| srichter | apauley: yes | 17:12 |
| apauley | srichter: try typing C-x C-d | 17:17 |
| srichter | ok | 17:17 |
| srichter | next? | 17:17 |
| apauley | it should give you an ls -F listing instead of ls -l | 17:17 |
| apauley | next you need to choose a dir to list | 17:17 |
| srichter | yes | 17:18 |
| apauley | o, i see. this is only a listing, not dired | 17:19 |
| apauley | so you cant click on a file | 17:19 |
| srichter | right, and I also do not get a list of all txt files | 17:19 |
| srichter | I basically want a find output where I can click on the files | 17:19 |
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| apauley | srichter: I've found something that might be of help | 17:30 |
| apauley | in ~/.emacs: (setq dired-listing-switches "-l") | 17:30 |
| srichter | but it still does not help me finding the files in the tree | 17:30 |
| srichter | apauley: there is no need to waste your time on this :-) | 17:31 |
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| apauley | srichter: ok, I better continue working :-) | 17:41 |
| srichter | apauley: yes, thanks a lot anyways! :-) | 17:42 |
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| SteveA | J1m: the issue with the python profiling library is a vindication of the zope committer's process / agreement | 19:15 |
| SteveA | in a schadenfreude kind of way | 19:16 |
| * SteveA hopes no actual german speakers are around to correct spelling | 19:16 | |
| srichter | it's correct :-) | 19:16 |
| Theuni | right | 19:16 |
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| * mgedmin wonders what 'schadenfreude' is | 19:29 | |
| SteveA | it is the quality of taking satisfaction in another's misfortune | 19:30 |
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| * Workblia was hit with a stick, a zope 3 widget stick | 19:49 | |
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| srichter | projekt01: are you there? | 20:47 |
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| J1m | SteveA, interesting. I haven't been paying close attention to that. Perhaps I should take a look. | 21:13 |
| projekt01 | srichter, yes | 21:17 |
| srichter | projekt01: how is your stuff coming along? | 21:18 |
| projekt01 | In about 1 hour | 21:19 |
| srichter | cool | 21:19 |
| projekt01 | What do need to do with? | 21:19 |
| srichter | well, my new book module uses online help | 21:20 |
| srichter | and I do not want to kill your checkin by being first | 21:20 |
| projekt01 | Ok, what do you use from the package | 21:20 |
| srichter | projekt01: see http://130.64.83.191:8080/++apidoc++ | 21:20 |
| srichter | gandalf | 21:20 |
| srichter | 123 | 21:20 |
| srichter | onlinehelptopic | 21:20 |
| srichter | but I want to use your new factory code | 21:21 |
| srichter | so that I can always force it to use restructured text | 21:21 |
| projekt01 | Do you mean the link Book? | 21:23 |
| srichter | yes | 21:23 |
| SteveA | J1m: the issue is that there is a module in the standard library which isn't provided under the python licence. The licence is permissive but not "open source definition" free. | 21:24 |
| SteveA | The problem is, it says "this code is free for use with python only" | 21:24 |
| SteveA | and an essential freedom is being able to port software to other languages and systems | 21:24 |
| SteveA | there are also patents involved | 21:24 |
| srichter | it is basically an online help | 21:25 |
| J1m | ah | 21:25 |
| SteveA | the original author does not hold copyright. the company he worked for was acquired quite a while ago. the copyright probably is with Disney corp, but no one really knows where the paperwork is | 21:25 |
| SteveA | nasty expensive lawyer stuff, probably | 21:25 |
| projekt01 | srichter, it looks great. | 21:25 |
| J1m | yes | 21:26 |
| srichter | projekt01: thanks | 21:26 |
| Damascene | SteveA: yeah lawyers are expensive. ;( | 21:26 |
| J1m | and now, finally, they want us to sign contributor agreements. | 21:26 |
| SteveA | so, ubuntu and debian have cut it out of their packaging of the standard library, and put it into a separate package in the "non-free" section of the package database | 21:26 |
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| SteveA | because they promise their users that stuff in the main distro is properly free | 21:26 |
| SteveA | but, this breaks the "you have the standard library available when you have python" ideal | 21:27 |
| SteveA | so, i have to get my sysadmin to install a non-free less supported package onto the integration box, because the tests depend on profile. | 21:27 |
| J1m | I think that idea is flawed anyway -- Python needs a packaging system | 21:27 |
| SteveA | although, it is a trivial dependency unless you run the profiling test targets | 21:28 |
| J1m | "Batteries included" has been an excuse/crutch for not solving the packaging problem. | 21:28 |
| SteveA | don't tell ubuntu -- they'll take distutils back out of the standard python package! | 21:29 |
| J1m | Huh? | 21:34 |
| SteveA | ubuntu did, and debian does, separate out distutils from the rest of the python standard library. | 21:38 |
| SteveA | this was confusing to users who thought they had what is generally known as "python 2.3", for example. | 21:38 |
| SteveA | they try to run software that says "works with python 2.3", like zopeX3 | 21:38 |
| SteveA | and it gives them import errors | 21:39 |
| J1m | distutils is core | 21:39 |
| J1m | it's one of the few things that *should* always be included | 21:39 |
| SteveA | the argument from debian is "you should install software using your OS's packaging system, unless you're a software developer. If you're a software developer, you should install the python-dev package" | 21:40 |
| srichter | but how realistic is that? | 21:40 |
| SteveA | the python in the ubuntu warty release lacks distutils. the python in the forthcoming ubuntu hoary release includes it. debian still lacks it, as far as i know. | 21:40 |
| srichter | Debian will never provide a DEB package for ever Python pacakge that supports distutils | 21:40 |
| SteveA | `anthony had an idea about that | 21:41 |
| SteveA | one of ubuntu's goals is to get darn close to providing a package for everything python out there | 21:41 |
| srichter | but you cannot guarantee this | 21:42 |
| SteveA | yep | 21:42 |
| srichter | what if I have a proprietary Python package | 21:42 |
| SteveA | then you are responsible for providing the .deb | 21:42 |
| srichter | it is so easy for me to write: Usign distutils do this and this and that | 21:42 |
| srichter | that is an unacceptable burden to any application developer | 21:42 |
| SteveA | i think someone will write a "make me a .deb from this distutils-friendly python package" tool | 21:43 |
| srichter | distutils works cross-platform, I just have to do it once | 21:43 |
| SteveA | it is already quite straightforward | 21:43 |
| srichter | so wat if RedHat, Mandrake, ... claim the same thing? | 21:43 |
| srichter | Then I have to provide a gazillion packages for one release | 21:43 |
| * mgedmin is one of those folks that think "if it isn't in debian, it doesn't exist" | 21:44 | |
| SteveA | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/PyUniverse | 21:44 |
| SteveA | that's `anthony's answer to all this | 21:45 |
| projekt01 | ... I'm looking for the flag test.py - without ZEO tests on windows | 21:45 |
| projekt01 | ;-) | 21:46 |
| J1m | projekt01, at the end of your command: '!ZEO' | 21:46 |
| projekt01 | Really? | 21:46 |
| J1m | I use this now rather than -szope | 21:46 |
| J1m | You give a pattern | 21:46 |
| projekt01 | Oh, great, I was just kidding | 21:46 |
| J1m | If the patterns starts with ! then we run everything that doesn't match the pattern. | 21:47 |
| projekt01 | Cool, thanks | 21:47 |
| srichter | ZEO seems to have some memory leaks, every time ZEO is included 75% of my 1GB RAM is taken by Python | 21:47 |
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| SteveA | hi GaryPoster | 21:47 |
| srichter | and it is not released until the tests are done | 21:47 |
| GaryPoster | Hey SteveA :-) | 21:47 |
| J1m | srichter, I'd be surpised if there was a leak. | 21:51 |
| srichter | ok, I just noticed it | 21:51 |
| * mgedmin noticed yesterday that 'python test.py zope' needs > 400 MB of RAM | 21:51 | |
| srichter | I am not knowlegable enough to make statements ;-) | 21:51 |
| * SteveA wonders if python will ever learn how to release memory back to the OS | 21:52 | |
| Damascene | so the paris sprint seems like it is geared to give zope3 a CMS framework? | 21:52 |
| Damascene | SteveA: hmmm darn it can't? sniffles. | 21:52 |
| SteveA | nope. it's an issue for long running processes that have leaks, or periodically need to load a lot of state. | 21:53 |
| projekt01 | Ran 6775 tests in 916.570s | 21:53 |
| Damascene | darn, that's really unfortunate. you would think they would have resolved it as a key issue. | 21:53 |
| J1m | Damascene, It's complicated. | 21:54 |
| J1m | Python often does release memory | 21:55 |
| SteveA | really? | 21:55 |
| * SteveA is surprised to hear that | 21:55 | |
| J1m | That doesn't mean the OS will actually make it available. | 21:55 |
| jhauser | :-) | 21:55 |
| jhauser | I can support this from my scientifc working | 21:56 |
| J1m | Hm, I may be wrong about that, come to think of it. | 21:56 |
| J1m | This has changed over time. | 21:56 |
| jhauser | but is a subtle thing, which malloc is used | 21:56 |
| J1m | It also depends on which objects you are talking about. | 21:56 |
| SteveA | tim would know, i guess | 21:56 |
| J1m | yup | 21:56 |
| SteveA | at least, on windows | 21:56 |
| jhauser | on windows it does not work | 21:56 |
| SteveA | and most likely on everything from crays to palms ;-) | 21:56 |
| jhauser | but there is compile option to use the pymalloc | 21:57 |
| J1m | It's easy with simple programs to see Python allocate and release memory. | 21:58 |
| J1m | >>> s = 'x' * 100000000 | 21:58 |
| J1m | >>> s2 = 'x' * 100000000 | 21:58 |
| J1m | >>> s=s2='' | 21:58 |
| J1m | > | 21:58 |
| J1m | I think Python has special handling for smallter objects. | 21:58 |
| SteveA | i thought pymalloc was the default nowadays | 21:59 |
| J1m | I think it manages them in free lists and these free lists don't get smaller. | 21:59 |
| jhauser | yes, but it's a question of the os if it can reuse the memory inbetween | 21:59 |
| SteveA | i guess the gc doesn't compact, as that would change memory addresses, and make the id() implementation harder | 21:59 |
| J1m | Python objects never move in memory | 22:00 |
| projekt01 | I have many deprecation warnings on startup since I updated from the trunk? | 22:02 |
| benji_york_zope | projekt01, yes you do. | 22:03 |
| projekt01 | It's not my fault? | 22:04 |
| projekt01 | I just prepare my checkin | 22:04 |
| J1m | It's benji_york_zope's fault | 22:04 |
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| projekt01 | Ah, should I wait with commiting my changes? | 22:05 |
| J1m | It would be nice to clean them up first. | 22:05 |
| benji_york_zope | No it's not! I think it's Gary's fault. | 22:06 |
| GaryPoster | oh-ho! | 22:06 |
| J1m | It shoukdn't be all that hard. | 22:06 |
| J1m | It shouldn't be all that hard. | 22:06 |
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| projekt01 | It's hard to find, the traceback reports nothing useable | 22:07 |
| projekt01 | Just broken.py, perhaps it's there to find | 22:08 |
| J1m | Are you saying that there are deprecation warnings for code that's not yours? | 22:09 |
| projekt01 | I don't know where the deprecation warnings comes from | 22:09 |
| projekt01 | trunk\src\ZODB\broken.py:187: DeprecationWarning: UtilityRegistration: This class has been moved to zope.app.component.site | 22:10 |
| projekt01 | I see just many of this messages | 22:10 |
| J1m | Ah | 22:10 |
| J1m | You can ignore that | 22:10 |
| projekt01 | But they where not there before, I think. | 22:11 |
| J1m | No, it's because your database has pickles with deprecated class names. | 22:11 |
| J1m | You don't get warnings when running the tests, right? | 22:12 |
| projekt01 | Yes | 22:12 |
| srichter | that's odd | 22:12 |
| projekt01 | But this must be happen the last couple hours. | 22:12 |
| J1m | srichter, it's not odd at all. | 22:12 |
| srichter | why? Deprecation warnings during a test run are odd | 22:13 |
| J1m | srichter, he isn't getting warnings when running tests. (I hope) | 22:14 |
| srichter | oh, then its ok | 22:15 |
| srichter | just remove your Data.fs | 22:15 |
| srichter | and try again | 22:15 |
| projekt01 | I removed the data.sf and it's OK now. | 22:17 |
| projekt01 | No there are no deprecation warnings during tests | 22:17 |
| J1m | Yay | 22:22 |
| tvon | is zope.schema an appropriate place for an Image field? | 22:24 |
| tvon | meaning if I wrote one and sent in a patch would anyone give it a second glance? | 22:24 |
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| tvon | it would add a PIL dep | 22:25 |
| J1m | no | 22:25 |
| J1m | It should be in a separate package. | 22:26 |
| * tvon nods | 22:26 | |
| J1m | Probably it's own little root project in the repo | 22:26 |
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| benji_york_zope | rejj, you there? | 22:37 |
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| projekt01 | srichter, you can checkout and try | 22:55 |
| srichter | I am already updating my code | 22:55 |
| projekt01 | Any problems? | 22:56 |
| srichter | I don't think so | 22:56 |
| projekt01 | Good news | 22:56 |
| J1m | projekt01, You checked in files with dos line endings. | 22:57 |
| J1m | I can't start Zope now | 22:57 |
| projekt01 | Oh, I will set the svn property | 22:57 |
| J1m | raise ConfigurationError("Unknown directive", ns, n) | 22:57 |
| J1m | zope.configuration.xmlconfig.ZopeXMLConfigurationError: File "/home/jim/p/jicpac/1/instance/etc/site.zcml", line 7.2-7.31 | 22:57 |
| J1m | ZopeXMLConfigurationError: File "/home/jim/p/jicpac/1/instance/lib/python/zc/fips/configure.zcml", line 8.2-8.34 | 22:57 |
| J1m | ZopeXMLConfigurationError: File "/home/jim/p/jicpac/1/instance/lib/python/zc/intranet/configure.zcml", line 23.2-23.46 | 22:57 |
| J1m | ZopeXMLConfigurationError: File "/home/jim/p/jicpac/1/src/zope3/src/zope/app/authentication/configure.zcml", line 73.2-73.30 | 22:57 |
| J1m | ZopeXMLConfigurationError: File "/home/jim/p/jicpac/1/src/zope3/src/zope/app/authentication/help.zcml", line 5.2 | 22:57 |
| J1m | ConfigurationError: ('Unknown directive', u'http://namespaces.zope.org/help', u'register') | 22:57 |
| srichter | strange, works for me like a charm | 22:58 |
| J1m | Did something get added to package-includes? | 22:58 |
| srichter | nope | 22:59 |
| projekt01 | Yes | 22:59 |
| projekt01 | But stefan was to early | 22:59 |
| projekt01 | I change the svn props now | 22:59 |
| J1m | Is the help namespace new? | 23:00 |
| J1m | projekt01, is the help namespace new? | 23:01 |
| srichter | no | 23:01 |
| srichter | J1m: is help.zcml special for you? | 23:02 |
| srichter | because I do not have this file | 23:02 |
| projekt01 | No, the help namespace was already there | 23:02 |
| J1m | That's probably why you can start Zope | 23:03 |
| J1m | Try an svn up | 23:03 |
| srichter | but I have svn upped | 23:03 |
| J1m | http://svn.zope.org/Zope3/trunk/src/zope/app/authentication/help.zcml?rev=29188&view=log | 23:04 |
| J1m | Rojer just added this | 23:04 |
| projekt01 | Ah yes, this help.zcml is new | 23:04 |
| srichter | oh, I have it now | 23:04 |
| srichter | still started up | 23:04 |
| srichter | J1m: try to svn up again | 23:05 |
| J1m | The problem is that we aren't using the onlinehelp package | 23:05 |
| J1m | But now zope.app.authentication depends on it. | 23:06 |
| J1m | If onlinehelp is optional, then we shouldn't be added dependencies to it. | 23:06 |
| srichter | oh, ok, roger you should delete help.zcml | 23:06 |
| J1m | If it's not optional, it shouldn't be in package includes. | 23:06 |
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| srichter | this is going to be covered by apidoc anyways | 23:06 |
| J1m | I'm a bit confused | 23:07 |
| projekt01 | Ok, should I call this file help.zcml.in | 23:07 |
| srichter | J1m: we need to decide whether onlinehelp should be optional; I think it should not, which means we need to change that | 23:08 |
| J1m | Fred and I were just talking about the fact that we need a way to say: "do this if that feature is available. | 23:08 |
| srichter | right | 23:08 |
| srichter | I have the same problem with the Book Doc Module | 23:08 |
| * mgedmin nods | 23:08 | |
| J1m | Then, these directives would only go if we had the online-help feature. | 23:08 |
| srichter | right now all the declarations are in apidoc | 23:08 |
| srichter | which stinks | 23:08 |
| srichter | projekt01: just remove help.zcml | 23:08 |
| J1m | We went through this in X3.0. | 23:09 |
| srichter | yep | 23:09 |
| projekt01 | Yeah, like handle help:register if the help package isn't there | 23:09 |
| J1m | We had to split out zsync and index support into separate packages. | 23:09 |
| srichter | and that was so ugly | 23:09 |
| mgedmin | would something like <optional when_available="help:register"> <help:register ... /> </optional> be acceptable? | 23:10 |
| J1m | sigh | 23:10 |
| J1m | This is probably a job for a less powerful zcml:condition | 23:11 |
| srichter | yes | 23:11 |
| projekt01 | Ok, help.zcml is removed | 23:11 |
| srichter | I would like to return the discussion again | 23:11 |
| mgedmin | does zcml:condition exist today, or is that a reference to some piece of science fiction? | 23:11 |
| srichter | mgedmin: it had been removed due to some complaining (from me) | 23:12 |
| J1m | It existed briefly. Martijn objected and we removed it. | 23:12 |
| projekt01 | mgedmin, something like that would be nice | 23:12 |
| * mgedmin would also like to have <depends_on package="foo.bar" /> | 23:12 | |
| mgedmin | with the meaning "include this file, but only if it wasn't included already" | 23:13 |
| J1m | mgedmin, we discussed that before, but worried that it could cause some weird ordering behavior. | 23:13 |
| mgedmin | it sucks to do package-includes dependency management manually | 23:13 |
| mgedmin | ah | 23:13 |
| mgedmin | wouldn't it be nice if zcml were purely declarative and ordering wouldn't matter? | 23:14 |
| mgedmin | ok, I'll stop making waves now | 23:14 |
| projekt01 | But the onlinehelp needs a way to let register each package its help file | 23:14 |
| J1m | we could probably resurect zcml:condition and dumb it down. | 23:15 |
| projekt01 | The onlinehelp lives from the dependency | 23:15 |
| J1m | zcml:condition="have onlinehelp" | 23:15 |
| projekt01 | It's pure dependecy to all packages | 23:15 |
| J1m | It doesn't have to be a hard dependency. | 23:16 |
| projekt01 | Yes, something like that, I think it hasn't be a general condition. Just for onlinhelp topics | 23:16 |
| J1m | I was thinking of something general. | 23:16 |
| * mgedmin sees a parallel with C header files and #include guards | 23:16 | |
| J1m | yes | 23:17 |
| J1m | The thing is, we have this working with TAL. | 23:17 |
| J1m | so, maybe we have: | 23:18 |
| J1m | meta:provides="onlinehelp" | 23:18 |
| J1m | then | 23:18 |
| srichter | hello ubuntu user accessing my Z3: currently the book module does not work due to a bug ;-) | 23:18 |
| * mgedmin noticed | 23:18 | |
| J1m | <blah zcml:condition="have onlinehelp" ...> | 23:18 |
| J1m | so we have a have verb that looks for things that have been provided. | 23:19 |
| mgedmin | J1m, I like that | 23:19 |
| srichter | oooh, that sounds cool | 23:19 |
| J1m | Later, we can add an "if" verb that takes a dotted name of a function to run: | 23:20 |
| J1m | <configure zcml:condition="if .config.onwindows"> | 23:21 |
| * mgedmin predicts that people will not like running Python code from ZCML conditions | 23:21 | |
| J1m | why not? | 23:22 |
| projekt01 | Ah, the function is a check for something. | 23:22 |
| mgedmin | wasn't that the reason why people objected to zcml:condition? | 23:22 |
| J1m | We has TAL before, but Martijn objected that it was too powerful. | 23:22 |
| mgedmin | "too hard to analyze with tools" | 23:22 |
| projekt01 | I like to run code form ZCML | 23:22 |
| J1m | mgedmin, martijn objected to having code *in* zcml. | 23:23 |
| projekt01 | We need to find another way for analyze the code | 23:23 |
| mgedmin | you mean, python: expressions? | 23:23 |
| J1m | yes | 23:23 |
| mgedmin | ah, ok | 23:23 |
| J1m | or even path expressions | 23:23 |
| srichter | I like the verb idea | 23:24 |
| * mgedmin gotta go | 23:24 | |
| mgedmin | I like the provides="foo" and condition="have foo" so much, I'd be willing to spend a weekend implementing it | 23:24 |
| mgedmin | see you | 23:24 |
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| J1m | Dang, he left before I could thank him. :) | 23:25 |
| srichter | shoot him a mail | 23:25 |
| J1m | But I heard him volunteer. | 23:25 |
| J1m | will do. | 23:25 |
| projekt01 | J1M, is your workspace running again? | 23:26 |
| J1m | Yup | 23:27 |
| J1m | Thanks | 23:27 |
| J1m | Hopefully, we'll resolve this zcml:condition thing soon, so we can put the help in the packages. | 23:28 |
| srichter | yes | 23:32 |
| srichter | projekt01: at some point we also have to support ordering of help topics | 23:36 |
| J1m | sent a proposal to the list. | 23:43 |
| srichter | replied :-) | 23:48 |
| J1m | Thanks | 23:48 |
| projekt01 | J1m, there are alphabetic now, but this would be nice | 23:53 |
| srichter | projekt01: right, but this is not alwasy desirable | 23:53 |
| srichter | as in the case for the book | 23:53 |
| projekt01 | Yes, having a order attribute is really hard to support. I think the tree has enough hirarchy which can be used as a order. Or not? | 23:55 |
| srichter | maybe we just give it an abstract position | 23:56 |
| projekt01 | Or we order just each level. Means each level has its own order. | 23:56 |
| srichter | which acts like weight | 23:56 |
| srichter | the smaller the number the higher up it appears | 23:56 |
| srichter | right, each level has its own order | 23:56 |
| srichter | btw, I really liek your improvements | 23:58 |
| projekt01 | Should I add a order attribute which acts like weight? | 23:58 |
| srichter | that would be great | 23:58 |
| projekt01 | Thanks, but I'm not really happy with the tree. | 23:58 |
| srichter | I think we should use a static tree | 23:59 |
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| srichter | I do this for the apidoc book and I like it a lot | 23:59 |
| projekt01 | It's not possible | 23:59 |
| projekt01 | We don't access the topic as a context | 23:59 |
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