IRC log of #zope3-dev for Tuesday, 2005-03-22

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ignas_how does zope choose one traverser over another ? there is a traverser described in and in, how does one make zope use the http one?03:25
ignas_should my objects implement some interface ?03:26
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_projekt01Ignas, see where all is starting at method publish()04:31
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regebroI've tried making som custom traversal adapters, but have trouble making tests for them.12:29
regebroIs there a good way to do thaat for non-functional tests?12:29
_projekt01What do you mean with traversal adapters?12:29
regebroI trie dto set them up with provideView, and then test with zapi.traverse() but it didn't work... Should it work?12:29
regebroChapter 35 in the Zope3 book.12:29
regebroChanging traversal behaviour.12:30
_projekt01You mean a ITraversable adapter registred for="xy"12:31
_projekt01Make sure you register also a view with the same "provide" and "for"12:31
regebroAh. I must provide it *also*. ;) That's the only thing that is provided in the zope3 book.;)12:32
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_projekt01I depends on who you use it, most time we register both12:33
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regebroWell, I have seen it and it aint exactly crystal clear. ;)12:33
regebroOk, so I'll try registering an adapter as well.12:34
_projekt01The view is needed for some calls where the request is used12:34
regebroI'll try this tonight (this is lo priority work;) ), thanks.12:35
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regebroEh, nope, I'm running headlong into a traversing wall again.20:37
regebroEach time I think I have understood it, I end up with it just not working.... Sigh.20:38
regebroOK, so I followed Stephans Zope3Book, chapter 35.20:38
regebroI made a subclass of ContainerTraverser, and configured it as a view.20:39
regebroThat just didn't seem to do anything.20:39
regebroSo, as of _projekt01s suggestion this morning, I now try to provide it as an ITraversable adapter as well.20:40
regebroBut of course, a view and an ITraversable adapter doesn't have the same interface, so that did't work.20:40
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regebroFor example: What is the difference between a traverser and an ITraversable adapter?20:44
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ignaswhat is the way of pasting into this channel ?20:56
ignasi think i could supply you with hints ...20:56
ignas is a custom traverser with functionality that matched my needs ...20:58
ignasyuo can replace it with one of your own traversers ...20:59
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WebMavenJ1m, we got it to work, but the subscriber directive wasn't working with multiple interfaces passed in.21:32
WebMavenso we got rid of the .interfaces.IWeblog interface in the directive and added  a test for IWeblog in the function instead.21:33
WebMavenSo it works now, the default skin is changed for Weblogs and their contained objects.21:34
WebMavenNow Andy and I are going to lunch. Who's hungry?21:34
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WebMavenhello zopepaul22:14
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zopepaulWebMaven: hi22:17
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_projekt01zopepaul, hi22:31
_projekt01What do you think about the browser compatibility for the Rotterdam skin?22:32
zopepaulthe list tonico sent?22:33
zopepauldo those items support xmlhttprequest?22:33
_projekt01I think Opera will do it only in the next release 7.022:34
zopepaulso, his list means no xmlhttprequest, right?22:35
_projekt01Yes, but I think it's important that we have only browsers with xmlhttp support22:36
_projekt01I have also a js library which acts as a xmlrpc client via xmlhttp where I like to use later.22:37
zopepauli agree22:37
zopepauli understand people that want a broad range like that22:37
zopepaulhowever, it means: "old, slow UI"22:38
zopepaulthat's ok for the public interface22:38
_projekt01Is there a source where we can check xmlhttp supported browsers22:38
zopepaulbut IMO, for a management UI, particularly for end users, we need to understand that sexy is good :)22:38
zopepaulthat's the lib you want :)22:38
zopepaulkupu uses it22:38
zopepauli believe that sarissa, for its xml, supports safari, konqi trunk, and opera beta22:42
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zopepaul(i think, that is, but i emailed the author today)22:42
_projekt01For to use it in Zope3?22:42
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zopepaulno, i was emailing him about his work w/ a browser-side SAX generator22:44
zopepaulso that i wouldn't have to use XSLT (which i love, but limits browser compat) on the client side22:45
_projekt01What can you do with sarissa?22:45
zopepaullet's get back to defining the question22:45
zopepauli believe the question right now is: what to do for X3.122:45
zopepaul(sarissa gives x-browser XML, xmlhttprequest, XSLT, and a few other related things)22:46
zopepaul(like, xpath)22:46
_projekt01Ok, cool22:46
zopepaulso, for the scope on X3.1, we have to define the problem, make a decision, and implement the work before the feature freeze22:46
zopepauland that's april 11, right?22:46
_projekt01I think April 1. But I'm not sure.22:47
zopepaulwell, either way...22:48
zopepaul...i don't think we have enough time (or consensus) to change the status quo for X3.122:49
zopepaulwe should just fix things22:49
_projekt01The mail form Jim says, Lets freeze features for X3.1 on April 2.22:49
_projekt01Then the question is should the Rotterdam skin support old browsers or not?22:50
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zopepaulit should do the status quo :)22:52
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_projekt01Yes, can you fix the issue from the xmltree?22:52
zopepaulat least, for X3.122:52
_projekt01What do you mean with status quo? Support old browsers?22:53
zopepauli will fix it if the zope 3 team wants the xmltree22:53
zopepaulsorry, i mean, the current decision about browser support22:53
zopepaulAFAIK, it is the same decision from dec 200222:53
_projekt01Ok, I see22:55
zopepaulwe can *also* start fixing the post-X3.1 issues:22:56
zopepaul1) who is the Pope (or pope-ocracy) on the UI22:56
zopepaul2) what is the UI or are the UIs22:56
zopepaul3) what are the browser issues22:56
_projekt011) Nobody22:56
_projekt012) Only the Rotterdam skin22:57
_projekt013) not defined22:57
_projekt01We really leak in this part and nobody was interessted in working on this since the sprint22:57
_projekt01The sprint where you implemented the xmltree ;-)22:58
zopepaulyes, and i did a crappy job :)22:58
_projekt01I think we should organize a UI team and do whatever we think is good for us22:58
zopepaulhonestly, at the first castle sprint, i rewrote it with only 25 lines of JS22:58
zopepaul(and a 40 line xslt)22:58
zopepaulwe should *stop* all current discussion about details22:59
zopepauland fix just that problem22:59
_projekt01Let's define 3) the browser compatibility22:59
_projekt01If somebody think it's bad, he can do it better.23:00
_projekt01Then bring the xmltree back to live23:00
zopepauli think we should skip (3)23:00
zopepauland only do (1)23:00
zopepaulof course, fix the current bugs23:01
zopepaulbut, nothing else for X3.123:01
zopepaul(beyond fixing bugs)23:01
zopepaulfocus our attention on post X3.123:01
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zopepaulthus, we need some bootstrapping protocol for the UI team23:01
_projekt01Yes, are you interessted to build a UI team?23:01
zopepaulwe can't have people that talk, but don't do23:01
zopepaulsuch as, me :)23:01
_projekt01No, you are Ok,23:02
zopepaulwell, i don't have much credibility in zope3 :)23:02
zopepaulthe last time i checked something in, it was GPL and jim yelled at me :)23:02
zopepaul(he was right to yell, i should have paid attention)23:02
_projekt01Argh, that's a problem23:03
_projekt01I think we have to clarify the use of other JS and it's lisence, it's bad to write all by ourself23:04
_projekt01We reaaly need some JS and we should use existing ones23:04
zopepaulthe sarissa guy allowed a relicense under ZPL23:04
_projekt01I think Stephan is or was talking about the use of other license in the trunk with Jim23:05
zopepauli would *love* to use Dean Edward's IE7 stuff, if we do a bigger effort23:05
zopepaulbut, he's unlikely to relicense (as his work is famous) :)23:05
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_projekt01+1, I need it for nested submenues!!!23:05
_projekt01Without IE7, we can't support nested menus without other bad JS23:06
zopepaulthese things need critical mass before you can make sure you cover all crazy browser combinations23:07
_projekt01Ok, do you have time to work on the xmltree?23:07
zopepaulgetting critical mass takes more time/resources than zope3 historically has shown for UI work :)23:07
_projekt01Hi hi23:07
zopepaulyes, i can do it, i'm just worried that i do it, and then everybody whines about the browser issue :)23:07
_projekt01No that's OK.23:08
_projekt01There is nobody interested working on this issue.23:09
zopepauli just wonder how much/little i should do23:09
zopepaulfor example, it's also ugly23:09
zopepaulthe vertical spacing sucks23:09
zopepaulthe CSS styling on the newer Plone navtree is very nice23:10
zopepaulshould i fix that too?23:10
zopepaulalso, the code is horrible...but, i don't know if anybody cares about that23:10
zopepaulfinally, and most important...if we *are* sticking with the current browser choices...23:10
zopepaul....i'll redo it as XSLT :)23:10
_projekt01You mean replace the plus/minus icons with little boxes23:10
zopepaulthat way, the code goes from 900 lines to 3023:10
zopepaulwell, lots more pleasant styling than that23:11
_projekt01Hm, I never worked with XSLT in combination with XMLHTTP23:12
_projekt01Does Kupu use it?23:13
_projekt01Ok, then it's not that bad23:13
zopepauldoing browser-side HTML generation w/ .createElement and .setAttribute and .appendChild is soooo painful23:13
_projekt01Yes, I agree23:14
_projekt01I was adding drag and drop support to the nodes in a modified version of xmltree.js23:14
zopepaulbleh, that stuff scares the crap out of me :)23:15
_projekt01What do you need to do? Can I help you implementing something (views, pages)?23:16
_projekt01Do you have a sample of the tree?23:17
zopepaulwell, good question23:17
zopepaulahh, that reminds me of my question to you about z3 cataloging...know anything about it?23:17
_projekt01No, not really23:17
zopepaulahh, crap :)23:18
_projekt01On the sprint where some work on zemantic. I think23:18
_projekt01Why do you ask?23:18
zopepaulmy long-term version of what i want in a skin is to send not just the data for the current folder....23:18
zopepaul...but, the metadata for *all* the content in content space23:18
zopepaulorganized into "workspaces"23:18
zopepauland then, generate the browser UI w/out talking to the server23:19
_projekt01Via XMLHttp requests?23:19
zopepaulrequest, singular :)23:19
_projekt01I saw a framework which uses this concept, but it was written in flash23:20
zopepauli've done many prototypes of this23:20
_projekt01It was pretty cool23:20
zopepauli have a pretty good idea what to do on the client, but no clue on the server23:20
_projekt01I have pretty good idea what to do on the server, but no clue on the client ;-)23:21
_projekt01Let's implement it after 3.123:22
zopepaulyes, of course, i certainly didn't mean now :)23:22
_projekt01I was thinking many times about it but I'm scarried about the complexitiy on the client side23:22
zopepaulit's a very radical approach23:22
_projekt01Yes, very different23:23
zopepaulit is scary, but manageable23:23
zopepauli've done it enough times to have a pretty good idea about it23:23
_projekt01Ok, we really have to group a UI team. Are you interested?23:24
zopepaulyep, i'm interested23:24
zopepaulwe need some way, though...23:24 make the distinction between "interested" and "committed" :)23:24
zopepaulthere's an old joke23:24
zopepaulat the ham and egg breakfast, the chicken is interested, but the pig is committed :)23:25
_projekt01Hi hi23:25
_projekt01That's true, I hope it comes better after the release.23:25
_projekt01I'm sure Tonico can help, and the guy from CPSSkin agreed also to work with us.23:26
zopepaulso, to get on the UI team, do you need to volunteer for completing a specific task?23:26
zopepaulis that a good criteria?23:26
zopepauli volunteer to do crazy stuff with async xml :)23:27
_projekt01I like to have people there who work on it and use it23:27
_projekt01Yes I'm too23:27
zopepaulperhaps we should be conservative23:28
zopepaulportray this as *a* UI team23:28
zopepauland, if we prove effective23:28
zopepauland produce something worthwhile, we are *the* UI team23:28
zopepaulthat means that, before we are official, we have more freedom23:29
_projekt01Good idea23:29
zopepaulis it possible to run the project outside the z3 repo, until we are *the* team?23:30
zopepauli'd like the freedom to explore prior art23:30
zopepaulthen decide what to keep or replace at the end23:30
_projekt01Yes of corse we have a repository at for our framework (ZPL 2.1)23:31
_projekt01There is a Collective open for everybody23:31
zopepaulthere's also the z3-base23:32
zopepaulright, i have an account in the z3 "collective" at codespeak23:32
_projekt01Stephan was comitting some PDF /REportlab imlementation23:32
_projekt01Or we can use a toplevel repos at svn.zope.org23:33
zopepaulthis project is the kind of thing that philiKON and martijn intended to z3 collective for23:33
_projekt01Doesn't matter where it lives, the important part is, that it goes to the trunk if it's ready!23:34
zopepaulcan you summarize our conclusions about (a) X3.1 and (b) a post-X3.1 UI team, and send to the list?23:34
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_projekt01But what's the state o the xmltree now?23:35
_projekt01Should I add virtual host support?23:35
_projekt01Or do you build a new tree?23:36
_projekt01Does your refactoring mean we have to use sarissa?23:38
zopepaulbug fixing doesn't require sarissa23:39
zopepaulrefactoring would require it23:39
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zopepaulif you have a version of the tree w/ vhost support, i should start w/ that23:40
zopepaul_projekt01: i'm off to sleep23:41
_projekt01It's just a minimal correction. I don't have a version right now.23:41
zopepauli'll give a try on a refactored tree23:41
zopepaulput it on z3-base23:41
zopepaulthen point you at it23:41
_projekt01Ok, cool. I will move it to the trunk23:42
zopepaulif i don't think i can do it w/out serious disruption to X3.1, i will...23:42
zopepaul...switch to simply fixing the bugs23:42
zopepaulare your changes on the view for generating XML?23:42
zopepaulor in the JS?23:42
_projekt01On the view23:43
zopepaulok, good23:43
zopepaulcan you email me a sample of the new XML output?23:43
_projekt01It's the same23:43
zopepauli prefer to work w/ static XML outside zope23:43
zopepaulahh, ok23:43
zopepaulalright, gnight, nice chatting w/ you!23:43
_projekt01Thanks, see you soon23:43
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