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| ignas_ | how does zope choose one traverser over another ? there is a traverser described in zope.app.http and in zope.app.container, how does one make zope use the http one? | 03:25 |
|---|---|---|
| ignas_ | should my objects implement some interface ? | 03:26 |
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| _projekt01 | Ignas, see where all is starting at zope.publisher.publish.py method publish() | 04:31 |
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| regebro | Mornin'! | 12:28 |
| _projekt01 | Hi | 12:28 |
| regebro | I've tried making som custom traversal adapters, but have trouble making tests for them. | 12:29 |
| regebro | Is there a good way to do thaat for non-functional tests? | 12:29 |
| _projekt01 | What do you mean with traversal adapters? | 12:29 |
| regebro | I trie dto set them up with provideView, and then test with zapi.traverse() but it didn't work... Should it work? | 12:29 |
| regebro | Chapter 35 in the Zope3 book. | 12:29 |
| regebro | Changing traversal behaviour. | 12:30 |
| _projekt01 | You mean a ITraversable adapter registred for="xy" | 12:31 |
| regebro | Yeah. | 12:31 |
| _projekt01 | Make sure you register also a view with the same "provide" and "for" | 12:31 |
| regebro | Ah. I must provide it *also*. ;) That's the only thing that is provided in the zope3 book.;) | 12:32 |
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| _projekt01 | I depends on who you use it, most time we register both | 12:33 |
| _projekt01 | See zope.app.traversing | 12:33 |
| _projekt01 | And zope.app.traversing.browser | 12:33 |
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| regebro | Well, I have seen it and it aint exactly crystal clear. ;) | 12:33 |
| regebro | Ok, so I'll try registering an adapter as well. | 12:34 |
| _projekt01 | Yup | 12:34 |
| _projekt01 | The view is needed for some calls where the request is used | 12:34 |
| regebro | I'll try this tonight (this is lo priority work;) ), thanks. | 12:35 |
| _projekt01 | Ok | 12:36 |
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| regebro | Eh, nope, I'm running headlong into a traversing wall again. | 20:37 |
| regebro | Each time I think I have understood it, I end up with it just not working.... Sigh. | 20:38 |
| regebro | OK, so I followed Stephans Zope3Book, chapter 35. | 20:38 |
| regebro | I made a subclass of ContainerTraverser, and configured it as a view. | 20:39 |
| regebro | That just didn't seem to do anything. | 20:39 |
| regebro | So, as of _projekt01s suggestion this morning, I now try to provide it as an ITraversable adapter as well. | 20:40 |
| regebro | But of course, a view and an ITraversable adapter doesn't have the same interface, so that did't work. | 20:40 |
| regebro | Hohum. | 20:40 |
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| regebro | For example: What is the difference between a traverser and an ITraversable adapter? | 20:44 |
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| ignas | what is the way of pasting into this channel ? | 20:56 |
| ignas | i think i could supply you with hints ... | 20:56 |
| ignas | http://paste.lisp.org/display/6831 | 20:58 |
| ignas | zope.app.http.traversal.ContainerTraverser is a custom traverser with functionality that matched my needs ... | 20:58 |
| ignas | yuo can replace it with one of your own traversers ... | 20:59 |
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| WebMaven | J1m, we got it to work, but the subscriber directive wasn't working with multiple interfaces passed in. | 21:32 |
| WebMaven | so we got rid of the .interfaces.IWeblog interface in the directive and added a test for IWeblog in the function instead. | 21:33 |
| WebMaven | So it works now, the default skin is changed for Weblogs and their contained objects. | 21:34 |
| WebMaven | Now Andy and I are going to lunch. Who's hungry? | 21:34 |
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| WebMaven | hello zopepaul | 22:14 |
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| zopepaul | WebMaven: hi | 22:17 |
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| _projekt01 | zopepaul, hi | 22:31 |
| zopepaul | hi | 22:31 |
| _projekt01 | What do you think about the browser compatibility for the Rotterdam skin? | 22:32 |
| zopepaul | the list tonico sent? | 22:33 |
| _projekt01 | Yes | 22:33 |
| zopepaul | do those items support xmlhttprequest? | 22:33 |
| _projekt01 | I think Opera will do it only in the next release 7.0 | 22:34 |
| zopepaul | right | 22:35 |
| zopepaul | so, his list means no xmlhttprequest, right? | 22:35 |
| _projekt01 | Yes, but I think it's important that we have only browsers with xmlhttp support | 22:36 |
| _projekt01 | I have also a js library which acts as a xmlrpc client via xmlhttp where I like to use later. | 22:37 |
| zopepaul | i agree | 22:37 |
| zopepaul | i understand people that want a broad range like that | 22:37 |
| zopepaul | however, it means: "old, slow UI" | 22:38 |
| zopepaul | that's ok for the public interface | 22:38 |
| _projekt01 | Is there a source where we can check xmlhttp supported browsers | 22:38 |
| zopepaul | but IMO, for a management UI, particularly for end users, we need to understand that sexy is good :) | 22:38 |
| zopepaul | sarissa.sf.net | 22:38 |
| zopepaul | that's the lib you want :) | 22:38 |
| zopepaul | kupu uses it | 22:38 |
| zopepaul | i believe that sarissa, for its xml, supports safari, konqi trunk, and opera beta | 22:42 |
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| zopepaul | (i think, that is, but i emailed the author today) | 22:42 |
| _projekt01 | For to use it in Zope3? | 22:42 |
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| zopepaul | no, i was emailing him about his work w/ a browser-side SAX generator | 22:44 |
| zopepaul | so that i wouldn't have to use XSLT (which i love, but limits browser compat) on the client side | 22:45 |
| _projekt01 | What can you do with sarissa? | 22:45 |
| zopepaul | let's get back to defining the question | 22:45 |
| zopepaul | i believe the question right now is: what to do for X3.1 | 22:45 |
| zopepaul | correct? | 22:45 |
| _projekt01 | Yes | 22:45 |
| zopepaul | (sarissa gives x-browser XML, xmlhttprequest, XSLT, and a few other related things) | 22:46 |
| zopepaul | (like, xpath) | 22:46 |
| _projekt01 | Ok, cool | 22:46 |
| zopepaul | so, for the scope on X3.1, we have to define the problem, make a decision, and implement the work before the feature freeze | 22:46 |
| zopepaul | and that's april 11, right? | 22:46 |
| _projekt01 | I think April 1. But I'm not sure. | 22:47 |
| zopepaul | well, either way... | 22:48 |
| zopepaul | ...i don't think we have enough time (or consensus) to change the status quo for X3.1 | 22:49 |
| zopepaul | we should just fix things | 22:49 |
| _projekt01 | The mail form Jim says, Lets freeze features for X3.1 on April 2. | 22:49 |
| _projekt01 | Ok | 22:49 |
| _projekt01 | Then the question is should the Rotterdam skin support old browsers or not? | 22:50 |
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| zopepaul | it should do the status quo :) | 22:52 |
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| _projekt01 | Yes, can you fix the issue from the xmltree? | 22:52 |
| zopepaul | at least, for X3.1 | 22:52 |
| _projekt01 | What do you mean with status quo? Support old browsers? | 22:53 |
| zopepaul | i will fix it if the zope 3 team wants the xmltree | 22:53 |
| zopepaul | sorry, i mean, the current decision about browser support | 22:53 |
| zopepaul | AFAIK, it is the same decision from dec 2002 | 22:53 |
| _projekt01 | Ok, I see | 22:55 |
| zopepaul | we can *also* start fixing the post-X3.1 issues: | 22:56 |
| zopepaul | 1) who is the Pope (or pope-ocracy) on the UI | 22:56 |
| zopepaul | 2) what is the UI or are the UIs | 22:56 |
| zopepaul | 3) what are the browser issues | 22:56 |
| zopepaul | etc. | 22:56 |
| _projekt01 | 1) Nobody | 22:56 |
| _projekt01 | 2) Only the Rotterdam skin | 22:57 |
| _projekt01 | 3) not defined | 22:57 |
| _projekt01 | We really leak in this part and nobody was interessted in working on this since the sprint | 22:57 |
| _projekt01 | The sprint where you implemented the xmltree ;-) | 22:58 |
| zopepaul | heheh | 22:58 |
| zopepaul | yes, and i did a crappy job :) | 22:58 |
| _projekt01 | I think we should organize a UI team and do whatever we think is good for us | 22:58 |
| zopepaul | honestly, at the first castle sprint, i rewrote it with only 25 lines of JS | 22:58 |
| zopepaul | (and a 40 line xslt) | 22:58 |
| zopepaul | yes | 22:58 |
| zopepaul | +1 | 22:58 |
| zopepaul | we should *stop* all current discussion about details | 22:59 |
| zopepaul | and fix just that problem | 22:59 |
| _projekt01 | cool | 22:59 |
| _projekt01 | Ok | 22:59 |
| _projekt01 | Let's define 3) the browser compatibility | 22:59 |
| _projekt01 | If somebody think it's bad, he can do it better. | 23:00 |
| _projekt01 | Then bring the xmltree back to live | 23:00 |
| zopepaul | i think we should skip (3) | 23:00 |
| zopepaul | and only do (1) | 23:00 |
| zopepaul | of course, fix the current bugs | 23:01 |
| zopepaul | but, nothing else for X3.1 | 23:01 |
| zopepaul | (beyond fixing bugs) | 23:01 |
| zopepaul | focus our attention on post X3.1 | 23:01 |
| _projekt01 | Ok | 23:01 |
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| zopepaul | thus, we need some bootstrapping protocol for the UI team | 23:01 |
| _projekt01 | Yes, are you interessted to build a UI team? | 23:01 |
| zopepaul | we can't have people that talk, but don't do | 23:01 |
| zopepaul | such as, me :) | 23:01 |
| _projekt01 | No, you are Ok, | 23:02 |
| zopepaul | well, i don't have much credibility in zope3 :) | 23:02 |
| zopepaul | the last time i checked something in, it was GPL and jim yelled at me :) | 23:02 |
| zopepaul | (he was right to yell, i should have paid attention) | 23:02 |
| _projekt01 | Argh, that's a problem | 23:03 |
| _projekt01 | I think we have to clarify the use of other JS and it's lisence, it's bad to write all by ourself | 23:04 |
| _projekt01 | We reaaly need some JS and we should use existing ones | 23:04 |
| zopepaul | the sarissa guy allowed a relicense under ZPL | 23:04 |
| _projekt01 | I think Stephan is or was talking about the use of other license in the trunk with Jim | 23:05 |
| _projekt01 | Cooooool | 23:05 |
| zopepaul | i would *love* to use Dean Edward's IE7 stuff, if we do a bigger effort | 23:05 |
| zopepaul | but, he's unlikely to relicense (as his work is famous) :) | 23:05 |
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| _projekt01 | +1, I need it for nested submenues!!! | 23:05 |
| _projekt01 | Without IE7, we can't support nested menus without other bad JS | 23:06 |
| zopepaul | exactly | 23:06 |
| zopepaul | these things need critical mass before you can make sure you cover all crazy browser combinations | 23:07 |
| _projekt01 | Ok, do you have time to work on the xmltree? | 23:07 |
| _projekt01 | Yes | 23:07 |
| zopepaul | getting critical mass takes more time/resources than zope3 historically has shown for UI work :) | 23:07 |
| _projekt01 | Hi hi | 23:07 |
| _projekt01 | +1 | 23:07 |
| zopepaul | yes, i can do it, i'm just worried that i do it, and then everybody whines about the browser issue :) | 23:07 |
| _projekt01 | No that's OK. | 23:08 |
| _projekt01 | There is nobody interested working on this issue. | 23:09 |
| zopepaul | i just wonder how much/little i should do | 23:09 |
| zopepaul | for example, it's also ugly | 23:09 |
| zopepaul | the vertical spacing sucks | 23:09 |
| zopepaul | the CSS styling on the newer Plone navtree is very nice | 23:10 |
| zopepaul | should i fix that too? | 23:10 |
| zopepaul | also, the code is horrible...but, i don't know if anybody cares about that | 23:10 |
| zopepaul | finally, and most important...if we *are* sticking with the current browser choices... | 23:10 |
| zopepaul | ....i'll redo it as XSLT :) | 23:10 |
| _projekt01 | You mean replace the plus/minus icons with little boxes | 23:10 |
| zopepaul | that way, the code goes from 900 lines to 30 | 23:10 |
| zopepaul | well, lots more pleasant styling than that | 23:11 |
| _projekt01 | Hm, I never worked with XSLT in combination with XMLHTTP | 23:12 |
| _projekt01 | Does Kupu use it? | 23:13 |
| zopepaul | yes | 23:13 |
| _projekt01 | Ok, then it's not that bad | 23:13 |
| _projekt01 | ;-) | 23:13 |
| zopepaul | doing browser-side HTML generation w/ .createElement and .setAttribute and .appendChild is soooo painful | 23:13 |
| zopepaul | hehe | 23:13 |
| _projekt01 | Yes, I agree | 23:14 |
| _projekt01 | I was adding drag and drop support to the nodes in a modified version of xmltree.js | 23:14 |
| zopepaul | bleh, that stuff scares the crap out of me :) | 23:15 |
| _projekt01 | ;-) | 23:15 |
| _projekt01 | What do you need to do? Can I help you implementing something (views, pages)? | 23:16 |
| _projekt01 | Do you have a sample of the tree? | 23:17 |
| zopepaul | well, good question | 23:17 |
| zopepaul | ahh, that reminds me of my question to you about z3 cataloging...know anything about it? | 23:17 |
| _projekt01 | No, not really | 23:17 |
| zopepaul | ahh, crap :) | 23:18 |
| _projekt01 | On the sprint where some work on zemantic. I think | 23:18 |
| _projekt01 | Why do you ask? | 23:18 |
| zopepaul | my long-term version of what i want in a skin is to send not just the data for the current folder.... | 23:18 |
| zopepaul | ...but, the metadata for *all* the content in content space | 23:18 |
| zopepaul | organized into "workspaces" | 23:18 |
| zopepaul | and then, generate the browser UI w/out talking to the server | 23:19 |
| _projekt01 | Via XMLHttp requests? | 23:19 |
| zopepaul | request, singular :) | 23:19 |
| zopepaul | yes | 23:19 |
| _projekt01 | I saw a framework which uses this concept, but it was written in flash | 23:20 |
| zopepaul | i've done many prototypes of this | 23:20 |
| _projekt01 | It was pretty cool | 23:20 |
| zopepaul | i have a pretty good idea what to do on the client, but no clue on the server | 23:20 |
| _projekt01 | I have pretty good idea what to do on the server, but no clue on the client ;-) | 23:21 |
| _projekt01 | ;-) | 23:21 |
| _projekt01 | Let's implement it after 3.1 | 23:22 |
| zopepaul | yes, of course, i certainly didn't mean now :) | 23:22 |
| _projekt01 | I was thinking many times about it but I'm scarried about the complexitiy on the client side | 23:22 |
| zopepaul | it's a very radical approach | 23:22 |
| _projekt01 | Yes, very different | 23:23 |
| zopepaul | it is scary, but manageable | 23:23 |
| zopepaul | i've done it enough times to have a pretty good idea about it | 23:23 |
| _projekt01 | Ok, we really have to group a UI team. Are you interested? | 23:24 |
| zopepaul | yep, i'm interested | 23:24 |
| zopepaul | we need some way, though... | 23:24 |
| zopepaul | ...to make the distinction between "interested" and "committed" :) | 23:24 |
| zopepaul | there's an old joke | 23:24 |
| zopepaul | at the ham and egg breakfast, the chicken is interested, but the pig is committed :) | 23:25 |
| _projekt01 | Hi hi | 23:25 |
| _projekt01 | That's true, I hope it comes better after the release. | 23:25 |
| _projekt01 | I'm sure Tonico can help, and the guy from CPSSkin agreed also to work with us. | 23:26 |
| zopepaul | so, to get on the UI team, do you need to volunteer for completing a specific task? | 23:26 |
| zopepaul | is that a good criteria? | 23:26 |
| _projekt01 | Yes | 23:26 |
| zopepaul | i volunteer to do crazy stuff with async xml :) | 23:27 |
| _projekt01 | I like to have people there who work on it and use it | 23:27 |
| _projekt01 | Yes I'm too | 23:27 |
| zopepaul | perhaps we should be conservative | 23:28 |
| zopepaul | portray this as *a* UI team | 23:28 |
| zopepaul | and, if we prove effective | 23:28 |
| zopepaul | and produce something worthwhile, we are *the* UI team | 23:28 |
| zopepaul | that means that, before we are official, we have more freedom | 23:29 |
| _projekt01 | Good idea | 23:29 |
| zopepaul | is it possible to run the project outside the z3 repo, until we are *the* team? | 23:30 |
| zopepaul | i'd like the freedom to explore prior art | 23:30 |
| zopepaul | then decide what to keep or replace at the end | 23:30 |
| _projekt01 | Yes of corse we have a repository at svn.tiks.org for our framework (ZPL 2.1) | 23:31 |
| zopepaul | ok | 23:31 |
| _projekt01 | There is a Collective open for everybody | 23:31 |
| zopepaul | there's also the z3-base | 23:32 |
| zopepaul | right, i have an account in the z3 "collective" at codespeak | 23:32 |
| _projekt01 | Stephan was comitting some PDF /REportlab imlementation | 23:32 |
| _projekt01 | Or we can use a toplevel repos at svn.zope.org | 23:33 |
| zopepaul | this project is the kind of thing that philiKON and martijn intended to z3 collective for | 23:33 |
| _projekt01 | Doesn't matter where it lives, the important part is, that it goes to the trunk if it's ready! | 23:34 |
| zopepaul | can you summarize our conclusions about (a) X3.1 and (b) a post-X3.1 UI team, and send to the list? | 23:34 |
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| zopepaul | right | 23:34 |
| _projekt01 | Yes | 23:35 |
| _projekt01 | But what's the state o the xmltree now? | 23:35 |
| _projekt01 | Should I add virtual host support? | 23:35 |
| _projekt01 | Or do you build a new tree? | 23:36 |
| _projekt01 | Does your refactoring mean we have to use sarissa? | 23:38 |
| zopepaul | bug fixing doesn't require sarissa | 23:39 |
| zopepaul | refactoring would require it | 23:39 |
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| zopepaul | if you have a version of the tree w/ vhost support, i should start w/ that | 23:40 |
| zopepaul | _projekt01: i'm off to sleep | 23:41 |
| _projekt01 | It's just a minimal correction. I don't have a version right now. | 23:41 |
| zopepaul | ok | 23:41 |
| zopepaul | i'll give a try on a refactored tree | 23:41 |
| zopepaul | put it on z3-base | 23:41 |
| zopepaul | then point you at it | 23:41 |
| _projekt01 | Ok, cool. I will move it to the trunk | 23:42 |
| zopepaul | if i don't think i can do it w/out serious disruption to X3.1, i will... | 23:42 |
| zopepaul | ...switch to simply fixing the bugs | 23:42 |
| _projekt01 | Ok | 23:42 |
| zopepaul | are your changes on the view for generating XML? | 23:42 |
| zopepaul | or in the JS? | 23:42 |
| _projekt01 | On the view | 23:43 |
| zopepaul | ok, good | 23:43 |
| zopepaul | can you email me a sample of the new XML output? | 23:43 |
| _projekt01 | It's the same | 23:43 |
| zopepaul | i prefer to work w/ static XML outside zope | 23:43 |
| zopepaul | ahh, ok | 23:43 |
| zopepaul | alright, gnight, nice chatting w/ you! | 23:43 |
| _projekt01 | Thanks, see you soon | 23:43 |
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