IRC log of #zope3-dev for Thursday, 2005-04-21

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srichterI am pretty sure James (foom) would implement WSGI extensions at any time, if we agree on a sensible solution00:01
srichterBjornT: foom and I just came up with a good WSGI way00:08
srichterwe'll just have a special dict for logging that the WSGI app can fill00:09
srichterthis dict will be sent to the logging method00:09
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BjornTBjornT: glad to hear that. ;-) sounds like a better solution00:12
srichterit will just require that WSGI code will creep into the app00:13
srichterso it will be intrusive to the app, but I guess that's ok, if we commit to it00:13
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ChrisWhmm, does Zope 3 rely on Python 2.4?01:59
projekt01ChrisW, not right now. We are still work with Python 2.3.502:00
ChrisWgreat :-D02:01
projekt01Why do you mean great?02:02
ChrisW'cos if you had said 2.4, then I wouldn't have been able to pnc zpt as easily ;-)02:02
ChrisWpnc = pinch02:02
projekt01Ah ok02:03
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ChrisWwhat's the url for anonymous zope.org snv02:38
ChrisW(ie: not viewsvn)02:38
srichtersvn://svn.zope.org/repos/main/Zope3/trunk02:40
* ChrisW tries to get zpkgtools to do its thing02:41
ChrisWmeep02:41
srichtercool02:41
srichteramke a little writeup, if you get it working02:41
ChrisWnot likely to have time for that sadly02:42
ChrisWits sucks so much that I have so much to do and so little time02:42
ChrisWI feel like ZC with less hours per day ;-)02:42
srichter:-)02:42
ChrisWI have plenty o' cool stuff, just no time to get it out there02:42
ChrisWMailingLogger and SimpleUserFolder have both seen significant development since the last public releases...02:43
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projekt01ChrisW, zpkgtools does not work with windows. I would like to use it too on windows. ;-(04:34
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Theunidoes zope x3 3.1 include something like import/export of data via TTW? (zexp style)11:27
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MacYEThow expensive are utility lookups in Z3?11:35
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Theuni$2.4011:53
* MacYET takes the sledgehammer11:55
Theunicalling sledgehammer utilities is double price11:56
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MrTopfhi12:04
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projekt01Is there a way to change the browser:menu directive to a meta directive for release 3.2?12:12
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andrew_mphiliKON: do you know what's the latest and greatest for XML/XSLT transformations within zope? anything that is zope 3 ready?12:44
MacYETuse libxml212:44
efgeuse lxml by martijn faassen12:45
efgeit binds to libxml212:45
MacYETups, something new?12:45
andrew_mthanks heaps.. that looks like something very up-to-date unlike other stuff i've seen12:47
philiKONandrew_m, yeah, look at lxml12:48
philiKONit's great12:48
philiKONother than the prototype martijn and i wrote 2 years ago, there's no xslt in z312:49
philiKONMacYET, codespeak.net/lxml12:49
philiKONMacYET, it's a new, much more pythonic binding to libxml212:49
MacYETgot it12:49
andrew_mphiliKON: yes, i found that prototype - but i was wondering if there's something newer12:50
philiKONnope12:50
andrew_mok - thanks12:51
MacYETlxml looks nice except the docs suck12:52
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philiKONMacYET, .5 was the first public release..13:05
philiKONand it was 99% written by one guy ...13:06
philiKONmost of what you need is the elementtree api anyway, i guess13:06
philiKONand that is well documented13:06
* MacYET just started his document finder :)13:08
* MrTopf will then also have a look :)13:15
* MrTopf started 3 days ago with xslt13:15
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regebroQuestion:14:00
regebroZope3s edit.pt starts with <tal:tag condition="view/update"/>14:00
regebroWhy not just call update() from the view __init__?14:01
regebroj-w (infrae) asked me this after he read my "Python statement considered harmful" blog entry. And ehm... I didn't know. :)14:02
projekt01regebro, ask Garrett, he will refactoring the form framework for release 3.2. This was disscussed earlier I think that just nobody was implementing it, but it could be done this way.14:03
regebroOK, great!14:04
projekt01regebro, I use this pattern in different own edit forms.14:04
projekt01It works like a charme...14:04
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regebroYeah, I do it myself in some cases, but only half-assed, because I had this update() idea lodged in my head. :)14:05
projekt01;-)14:05
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regebroentry updated. shame on me for not realizing this myself. :) http://blogs.nuxeo.com/sections/blogs/lennart_regebro/2005_04_19_python_statement14:19
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srichterJ1m: there you are :-)20:57
J1myes20:57
srichterso, what about the alpha release?20:57
J1mHow did you want to proceed?20:57
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srichterbasically, Fred (or someone who knows) needs to do some know-how transfer on how to sort out dependencies20:58
J1mHm20:58
J1mI don't know what you mean20:58
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srichterI looked at it and I was pretty much stunned and did not really know how to proceed20:58
srichterok, so we want to make a release20:59
J1mDo you not know what dependencies are?20:59
srichterpreferably I would not create a branch at this point20:59
J1mOr are you unsure to decide what the actual data should be?20:59
srichterthe next step is to get all the deps right, so we can build a tar ball20:59
J1mRight20:59
srichterI know what we should include (I think) and what to leave out21:00
srichterso how do I start the process?21:00
J1mI would be inclined to try building a release, testing it, and see what breaks. :)21:00
srichterok, sounds like a start21:00
srichter:-)21:00
J1mI'm willing to work on this for a while21:00
J1mto see how far I get21:01
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J1mI'm inclined to try making a release with the same scope as X3.021:01
philiKONso, no new packages unless they're needed?21:01
J1mWhen I have that working, we can think about what else we want to include.21:01
srichtercool; I could be working on it too (though not till later today, since I have to do admin stuff for my TA)21:01
philiKON(except zope.app.authentication, of course)21:01
srichterright, good idea21:01
J1mBasically, I'd like to get to a working baseline21:02
srichterright21:02
philiKONmakes sense21:02
philiKONi wonder if zope.app.recorder is mature enough to be released21:02
srichterok, I think I will have to do some admin stuff for an hour (communicating with the prof, etc; sigh), so I will be back later to help21:03
MacYETis it in general recommended to make interface imports absolute?21:03
philiKONi think it's in general recommended to make all imports absolute21:03
MacYETalso in zcml?21:03
srichterno, not there21:03
philiKONzcml is smarter than python in that respect21:04
MacYETk21:04
MacYEThehe21:04
J1mIt would be great if people kept DEPENDENCY.cfg files up to date.21:05
J1m:)21:05
J1mSo anyway, that's how I'd start.21:05
MacYETwhat is the state of cataloging in z3?21:05
J1mI'm willing to work on it for a while, but I'd me happy to let someone else work on it too. :)21:05
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philiKONMacYET, there's one :)21:06
MacYETmaybe when i am fit in z321:06
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J1mMacYET, There is a basic cataloging framework that is ready to release IMO.21:06
J1mIt is quite a bit different from Z2's21:06
J1mIt is simpler and less featureful21:07
MacYETi need some more experiences first :21:07
MacYET=)21:07
J1mIt also is geared toward allowing multiple catalogs and indexing structures and joins accross them.21:07
MacYETi am currently implementing txng3 with multi-field and multi-language support21:08
MacYETis there a z3 sprint planned for europython?21:26
philiKONi think so21:28
MacYETwould be fine to have some dates to arrange flights and hotel :)21:32
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MacYETmr withers22:08
ChrisWMr Yet :-)22:09
ChrisWyou zope 3'ing yet?22:09
MacYETat least trying22:09
ChrisWheh22:10
ChrisWwell, I'm using the zpt package22:10
ChrisWwhich siu cool22:10
ChrisWespecially as I have to build python cgis22:10
ChrisWand wnat ot use ZPT22:10
MacYETcgi?s22:10
philiKONChrisW, you can do yourself a favour, write a wsgi compliant app and use the cgihandler from the wsgiref implementation...22:11
philiKONthat way you're at least not limited to cgi22:11
ChrisWnah, simpler than that22:11
ChrisWand yes, cgi's22:12
ChrisWapparently "zope is insecure"22:12
ChrisW*shakes head*22:12
philiKON?!?!22:12
philiKONsez the customer?22:12
ChrisWyeah22:13
ChrisWwell, actually the customer's customer22:13
srichterright, and on the other hand Zope is the first OS project to get security certification22:13
srichtersigh22:13
philiKONzope 3 that is22:13
srichteryeah22:14
srichterbut if you use CGI you might as well use Zope 3 :-)22:14
ChrisW?22:14
ChrisWhow so?22:14
ChrisWand yes, I am already using zpt from zope 322:14
ChrisWwht else should I use?22:14
srichterbecause you cannot use advanced Zope 2 systems, like Plone, CPS, ... anyways22:14
philiKONi think CGIs involve so many subtleties... they're probably the most insecure form of web programming22:15
ChrisWwhy do yu say that?22:16
philiKONalone the handling of authentication...22:16
ChrisW*shrugs*22:16
ChrisWapache problem, I care not22:16
philiKONmmh, ok... if your setup does it via apache auth, that's good22:17
philiKONat least one thing off your mind22:17
ChrisWheh22:17
philiKONif you're using apache, you could also use mod_python22:22
philiKONit's quite fast22:22
ChrisWyeah, well, hell may freeze over too ;-)22:24
ChrisWidiot customer of customer22:24
ChrisWso I'll stick with cgi, don't hurt too much ;-)22:24
philiKONlol22:24
philiKONthe customer is king22:24
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srichterJ1m: have you gotten a release built already :-)22:29
ChrisWheh22:30
ChrisWrelease building is childs play22:30
ChrisWFred rox :-)22:30
srichterJ1m: I swear I am going to write a howto on how to do this on the trunk22:30
srichterChrisW: yeah, if you use a correctly setup branch22:30
ChrisWoh?22:31
J1msrichter, I haven't started yet22:36
srichterok22:36
srichterok,22:37
srichter"bin/zpkg -ca ZopeX3" should get us started22:37
srichterand least it points out one failure already22:37
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srichterJ1m: zpkgtools cannot handle externals :-)22:45
srichterso it does not find the externally linked packages22:46
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srichteroh, we have to change the release support22:47
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J1mAre you working on this?22:54
J1mBTW, I'm sure it *can* handle externals22:54
J1mIf you are going to work on this, I won't.22:54
J1mWhich is fine with me.22:54
philiKONsrichter, btw, dude, all your emails are in an arabic character encoding...22:57
srichterphiliKON: not for me; they show up fine22:57
srichterI check out KDE's encoding settings22:57
srichterJ1m: I just started22:58
srichterJ1m: I got a release built with the last two changes22:58
srichterwhether it works is another story22:58
srichterI think we can work together on it, since plenty of tests will fail I assume22:58
philiKONsrichter, the emails i get from you report to be in ISO-8859-6 (Arabic)22:59
srichterphiliKON: do you know the setting in KDE?22:59
srichtermmh: my order is ASCII, Latin-1, UTF-823:00
philiKONweird23:01
srichterand my mails are sent in Latin-1 usually; I jsut checked one23:01
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philiKONsrichter, can you send me a private email?23:06
srichtersure23:07
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srichterphiliKON: done23:08
philiKONContent-Type: text/plain;23:09
philiKON  charset="iso-8859-1"23:09
philiKONthat's good :)23:09
srichterzep23:09
philiKONheh, still on german keyboard, eh?23:10
srichternope23:10
srichteraehm, yep23:10
philiKONnow mozilla interprets it correctly23:10
philiKONmaybe it has to do with the lists23:10
srichterI love the switching in KDE: Strg+Alt+K23:10
philiKONor with gmane23:10
srichterdunno23:10
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J1msrichter, I think I'll let you work on it then.23:20
J1mLet me know if you have any questions or want me to help with something.23:21
srichterJ1m: ok, I actually have a decent start on it now23:21
srichterI am taking notes too ;-)23:22
srichterbut it is very slow23:22
srichterpackaging, unpacking, building, testing, ...23:22
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srichterJ1m: I have a problem23:46
srichterzope.apptesting, a new module, is not included23:46
srichterI have added it to zope/app/PACKAGE.cfg without success23:46
srichterzope.app.testing, a new module, is not included23:47
philiKONsrichter, i think the package itself needs to grow the .cfg files too23:48
J1mI assume that you either checked it in or set up your zpkg map to point to local files, right?23:48
srichterJ1m: no, I do everything with SVN23:49
srichterthat's the reason I do so many checkins right now23:49
srichterphiliKON: it has one, though it should not need one, if it is mentioned in zope/app/PACKAGE.cfg23:49
philiKONok23:50
srichtermaybe this is my problem, now I have a DEPENDENCIES.cfg, but no PACKAGE.cfg? But that makes no sense23:50
srichterJ1m: zope.app.testing is simply not added to the release23:56
srichterI am using: Python zpkgtools/bin/zpkg -ca ZopeX323:56

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