IRC log of #zope3-dev for Thursday, 2005-04-21

*** mkerrin has quit IRC00:00
srichterI am pretty sure James (foom) would implement WSGI extensions at any time, if we agree on a sensible solution00:01
srichterBjornT: foom and I just came up with a good WSGI way00:08
srichterwe'll just have a special dict for logging that the WSGI app can fill00:09
srichterthis dict will be sent to the logging method00:09
*** mohsen|away has quit IRC00:10
*** mohsenX has joined #zope3-dev00:10
*** mohsen has quit IRC00:10
BjornTBjornT: glad to hear that. ;-) sounds like a better solution00:12
srichterit will just require that WSGI code will creep into the app00:13
srichterso it will be intrusive to the app, but I guess that's ok, if we commit to it00:13
*** kaczordek has joined #zope3-dev00:26
*** projekt01 has joined #zope3-dev00:34
*** RaFromBRC has joined #zope3-dev00:36
*** niemeyer has quit IRC00:39
*** BjornT has quit IRC00:59
*** BjornT has joined #zope3-dev00:59
*** efge has left #zope3-dev01:10
*** RaFromBRC is now known as RaFromBRC|mtg01:12
*** RaFromBRC|mtg has quit IRC01:13
*** RaFromBRC has joined #zope3-dev01:13
*** RaFromBRC is now known as RaFromBRC|mtg01:14
*** srichter has quit IRC01:25
*** bradb|out has quit IRC01:30
*** bradb|out has joined #zope3-dev01:32
*** mohsenX has quit IRC01:37
*** ChrisW has joined #zope3-dev01:59
ChrisWhmm, does Zope 3 rely on Python 2.4?01:59
projekt01ChrisW, not right now. We are still work with Python 2.3.502:00
ChrisWgreat :-D02:01
projekt01Why do you mean great?02:02
ChrisW'cos if you had said 2.4, then I wouldn't have been able to pnc zpt as easily ;-)02:02
ChrisWpnc = pinch02:02
projekt01Ah ok02:03
*** yota has quit IRC02:16
*** ChrisW has quit IRC02:27
*** tarek_ has quit IRC02:30
*** ChrisW has joined #zope3-dev02:30
*** srichter has joined #zope3-dev02:33
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o srichter02:36
ChrisWwhat's the url for anonymous snv02:38
ChrisW(ie: not viewsvn)02:38
* ChrisW tries to get zpkgtools to do its thing02:41
srichteramke a little writeup, if you get it working02:41
ChrisWnot likely to have time for that sadly02:42
ChrisWits sucks so much that I have so much to do and so little time02:42
ChrisWI feel like ZC with less hours per day ;-)02:42
ChrisWI have plenty o' cool stuff, just no time to get it out there02:42
ChrisWMailingLogger and SimpleUserFolder have both seen significant development since the last public releases...02:43
*** RaFromBRC|mtg is now known as RaFromBRC02:43
*** BjornT has quit IRC03:14
*** BjornT has joined #zope3-dev03:14
*** RaFromBRC is now known as RaFromBRC|out03:50
*** `anthony has quit IRC04:17
projekt01ChrisW, zpkgtools does not work with windows. I would like to use it too on windows. ;-(04:34
*** MiUlEr has joined #zope3-dev04:48
*** projekt01 has left #zope3-dev04:50
*** hazmat has quit IRC04:57
*** BjornT has quit IRC04:59
*** stub has joined #zope3-dev05:11
*** RaFromBRC|out has quit IRC05:29
*** povbot` has joined #zope3-dev05:33
*** povbot has quit IRC05:33
*** SteveA has joined #zope3-dev05:56
*** BjornT has joined #zope3-dev06:12
*** BjornT has joined #zope3-dev06:37
*** bradb|out has quit IRC06:37
*** bradb|out has joined #zope3-dev06:44
*** BjornT has quit IRC07:10
*** MacZzzZz has joined #zope3-dev07:21
*** stub has quit IRC07:28
*** MacZzzZz is now known as MacYET08:14
*** viyyer has joined #zope3-dev08:17
*** sarca has joined #zope3-dev08:27
*** viyyer has quit IRC08:31
*** sarca is now known as viyyer08:31
*** viyyer has left #zope3-dev08:57
*** Theuni has joined #zope3-dev09:05
*** sashav has joined #zope3-dev09:31
*** yota has joined #zope3-dev09:53
*** eaon has joined #zope3-dev10:24
*** lunatik has joined #zope3-dev10:57
*** andrew_m has joined #zope3-dev11:03
Theunidoes zope x3 3.1 include something like import/export of data via TTW? (zexp style)11:27
*** tarek_ has joined #zope3-dev11:30
MacYEThow expensive are utility lookups in Z3?11:35
*** mooded has joined #zope3-dev11:42
* MacYET takes the sledgehammer11:55
Theunicalling sledgehammer utilities is double price11:56
*** lunatik has left #zope3-dev12:00
*** Aiste has quit IRC12:03
*** MrTopf has joined #zope3-dev12:04
*** projekt01 has joined #zope3-dev12:09
projekt01Is there a way to change the browser:menu directive to a meta directive for release 3.2?12:12
*** mexiKON has joined #zope3-dev12:15
*** philiKON has quit IRC12:17
*** mexiKON is now known as philiKON12:17
*** ignas has joined #zope3-dev12:30
*** efge has joined #zope3-dev12:44
andrew_mphiliKON: do you know what's the latest and greatest for XML/XSLT transformations within zope? anything that is zope 3 ready?12:44
MacYETuse libxml212:44
efgeuse lxml by martijn faassen12:45
efgeit binds to libxml212:45
MacYETups, something new?12:45
andrew_mthanks heaps.. that looks like something very up-to-date unlike other stuff i've seen12:47
philiKONandrew_m, yeah, look at lxml12:48
philiKONit's great12:48
philiKONother than the prototype martijn and i wrote 2 years ago, there's no xslt in z312:49
philiKONMacYET, it's a new, much more pythonic binding to libxml212:49
MacYETgot it12:49
andrew_mphiliKON: yes, i found that prototype - but i was wondering if there's something newer12:50
andrew_mok - thanks12:51
MacYETlxml looks nice except the docs suck12:52
*** mkerrin has joined #zope3-dev13:00
*** mkerrin has quit IRC13:04
philiKONMacYET, .5 was the first public release..13:05
philiKONand it was 99% written by one guy ...13:06
philiKONmost of what you need is the elementtree api anyway, i guess13:06
philiKONand that is well documented13:06
* MacYET just started his document finder :)13:08
* MrTopf will then also have a look :)13:15
* MrTopf started 3 days ago with xslt13:15
*** eaon has quit IRC13:20
*** regebro has joined #zope3-dev13:23
*** MacYET_ has joined #zope3-dev13:26
*** bradb|out has quit IRC13:28
*** bradb|out has joined #zope3-dev13:28
*** kaczordek has quit IRC13:31
*** MacYET has quit IRC13:33
*** srichter has quit IRC13:55
regebroZope3s starts with <tal:tag condition="view/update"/>14:00
regebroWhy not just call update() from the view __init__?14:01
regebroj-w (infrae) asked me this after he read my "Python statement considered harmful" blog entry. And ehm... I didn't know. :)14:02
projekt01regebro, ask Garrett, he will refactoring the form framework for release 3.2. This was disscussed earlier I think that just nobody was implementing it, but it could be done this way.14:03
regebroOK, great!14:04
projekt01regebro, I use this pattern in different own edit forms.14:04
projekt01It works like a charme...14:04
*** Aiste has joined #zope3-dev14:04
regebroYeah, I do it myself in some cases, but only half-assed, because I had this update() idea lodged in my head. :)14:05
*** mkerrin has joined #zope3-dev14:14
regebroentry updated. shame on me for not realizing this myself. :)
*** srichter has joined #zope3-dev14:54
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o srichter14:54
*** faassen has joined #zope3-dev14:59
*** MacYET_ has quit IRC15:18
*** MacYET has joined #zope3-dev15:19
*** alga has joined #zope3-dev15:22
*** bskahan has joined #zope3-dev15:34
*** BjornT has joined #zope3-dev15:35
*** th1a|PyUK has quit IRC15:49
*** th1a has joined #zope3-dev15:59
*** sashav has quit IRC16:31
*** bradb|out has quit IRC17:04
*** stub has joined #zope3-dev17:08
*** mkerrin has quit IRC17:09
*** BjornT has quit IRC17:10
*** bradb|out has joined #zope3-dev17:14
*** th1a has quit IRC17:30
*** mkerrin has joined #zope3-dev17:39
*** BjornT has joined #zope3-dev17:39
*** tvon has joined #zope3-dev17:41
*** th1a has joined #zope3-dev18:01
*** th1a has quit IRC18:02
*** mooded has quit IRC18:02
*** MrTopf has quit IRC18:08
*** tvon has quit IRC18:13
*** stub has quit IRC18:27
*** BjornT has quit IRC19:04
*** BjornT has joined #zope3-dev19:04
*** AdamGroszer has joined #zope3-dev19:06
*** tvon has joined #zope3-dev19:06
*** SteveA has quit IRC19:15
*** tvon has quit IRC19:16
*** bradb|out is now known as bradb19:34
*** hazmat has joined #zope3-dev19:36
*** Aiste has quit IRC19:48
*** projekt01 has quit IRC19:48
*** tarek_ has quit IRC19:56
*** ignas has quit IRC19:56
*** MiUlEr has quit IRC19:59
*** MiUlEr has joined #zope3-dev20:01
*** ignas has joined #zope3-dev20:08
*** Aiste has joined #zope3-dev20:09
*** Aiste has quit IRC20:15
*** Aiste has joined #zope3-dev20:15
*** J1m has joined #zope3-dev20:24
srichterJ1m: there you are :-)20:57
srichterso, what about the alpha release?20:57
J1mHow did you want to proceed?20:57
*** bradb_ has joined #zope3-dev20:57
srichterbasically, Fred (or someone who knows) needs to do some know-how transfer on how to sort out dependencies20:58
J1mI don't know what you mean20:58
*** bradb has quit IRC20:58
srichterI looked at it and I was pretty much stunned and did not really know how to proceed20:58
srichterok, so we want to make a release20:59
J1mDo you not know what dependencies are?20:59
srichterpreferably I would not create a branch at this point20:59
J1mOr are you unsure to decide what the actual data should be?20:59
srichterthe next step is to get all the deps right, so we can build a tar ball20:59
srichterI know what we should include (I think) and what to leave out21:00
srichterso how do I start the process?21:00
J1mI would be inclined to try building a release, testing it, and see what breaks. :)21:00
srichterok, sounds like a start21:00
J1mI'm willing to work on this for a while21:00
J1mto see how far I get21:01
*** BjornT_ has joined #zope3-dev21:01
J1mI'm inclined to try making a release with the same scope as X3.021:01
philiKONso, no new packages unless they're needed?21:01
J1mWhen I have that working, we can think about what else we want to include.21:01
srichtercool; I could be working on it too (though not till later today, since I have to do admin stuff for my TA)21:01
philiKON(except, of course)21:01
srichterright, good idea21:01
J1mBasically, I'd like to get to a working baseline21:02
philiKONmakes sense21:02
philiKONi wonder if is mature enough to be released21:02
srichterok, I think I will have to do some admin stuff for an hour (communicating with the prof, etc; sigh), so I will be back later to help21:03
MacYETis it in general recommended to make interface imports absolute?21:03
philiKONi think it's in general recommended to make all imports absolute21:03
MacYETalso in zcml?21:03
srichterno, not there21:03
philiKONzcml is smarter than python in that respect21:04
J1mIt would be great if people kept DEPENDENCY.cfg files up to date.21:05
J1mSo anyway, that's how I'd start.21:05
MacYETwhat is the state of cataloging in z3?21:05
J1mI'm willing to work on it for a while, but I'd me happy to let someone else work on it too. :)21:05
*** BjornT has quit IRC21:05
philiKONMacYET, there's one :)21:06
MacYETmaybe when i am fit in z321:06
*** BjornT_ is now known as BjornT21:06
J1mMacYET, There is a basic cataloging framework that is ready to release IMO.21:06
J1mIt is quite a bit different from Z2's21:06
J1mIt is simpler and less featureful21:07
MacYETi need some more experiences first :21:07
J1mIt also is geared toward allowing multiple catalogs and indexing structures and joins accross them.21:07
MacYETi am currently implementing txng3 with multi-field and multi-language support21:08
MacYETis there a z3 sprint planned for europython?21:26
philiKONi think so21:28
MacYETwould be fine to have some dates to arrange flights and hotel :)21:32
*** faassen has quit IRC21:34
*** ChrisW has quit IRC21:55
*** ChrisW has joined #zope3-dev21:55
MacYETmr withers22:08
ChrisWMr Yet :-)22:09
ChrisWyou zope 3'ing yet?22:09
MacYETat least trying22:09
ChrisWwell, I'm using the zpt package22:10
ChrisWwhich siu cool22:10
ChrisWespecially as I have to build python cgis22:10
ChrisWand wnat ot use ZPT22:10
philiKONChrisW, you can do yourself a favour, write a wsgi compliant app and use the cgihandler from the wsgiref implementation...22:11
philiKONthat way you're at least not limited to cgi22:11
ChrisWnah, simpler than that22:11
ChrisWand yes, cgi's22:12
ChrisWapparently "zope is insecure"22:12
ChrisW*shakes head*22:12
philiKONsez the customer?22:12
ChrisWwell, actually the customer's customer22:13
srichterright, and on the other hand Zope is the first OS project to get security certification22:13
philiKONzope 3 that is22:13
srichterbut if you use CGI you might as well use Zope 3 :-)22:14
ChrisWhow so?22:14
ChrisWand yes, I am already using zpt from zope 322:14
ChrisWwht else should I use?22:14
srichterbecause you cannot use advanced Zope 2 systems, like Plone, CPS, ... anyways22:14
philiKONi think CGIs involve so many subtleties... they're probably the most insecure form of web programming22:15
ChrisWwhy do yu say that?22:16
philiKONalone the handling of authentication...22:16
ChrisWapache problem, I care not22:16
philiKONmmh, ok... if your setup does it via apache auth, that's good22:17
philiKONat least one thing off your mind22:17
philiKONif you're using apache, you could also use mod_python22:22
philiKONit's quite fast22:22
ChrisWyeah, well, hell may freeze over too ;-)22:24
ChrisWidiot customer of customer22:24
ChrisWso I'll stick with cgi, don't hurt too much ;-)22:24
philiKONthe customer is king22:24
*** alga has quit IRC22:26
srichterJ1m: have you gotten a release built already :-)22:29
ChrisWrelease building is childs play22:30
ChrisWFred rox :-)22:30
srichterJ1m: I swear I am going to write a howto on how to do this on the trunk22:30
srichterChrisW: yeah, if you use a correctly setup branch22:30
J1msrichter, I haven't started yet22:36
srichter"bin/zpkg -ca ZopeX3" should get us started22:37
srichterand least it points out one failure already22:37
*** RaFromBRC has joined #zope3-dev22:41
*** bradb_ has quit IRC22:43
*** mkerrin has quit IRC22:45
*** bradb_ has joined #zope3-dev22:45
srichterJ1m: zpkgtools cannot handle externals :-)22:45
srichterso it does not find the externally linked packages22:46
*** AdamGroszer has left #zope3-dev22:46
srichteroh, we have to change the release support22:47
*** hazmat has quit IRC22:50
J1mAre you working on this?22:54
J1mBTW, I'm sure it *can* handle externals22:54
J1mIf you are going to work on this, I won't.22:54
J1mWhich is fine with me.22:54
philiKONsrichter, btw, dude, all your emails are in an arabic character encoding...22:57
srichterphiliKON: not for me; they show up fine22:57
srichterI check out KDE's encoding settings22:57
srichterJ1m: I just started22:58
srichterJ1m: I got a release built with the last two changes22:58
srichterwhether it works is another story22:58
srichterI think we can work together on it, since plenty of tests will fail I assume22:58
philiKONsrichter, the emails i get from you report to be in ISO-8859-6 (Arabic)22:59
srichterphiliKON: do you know the setting in KDE?22:59
srichtermmh: my order is ASCII, Latin-1, UTF-823:00
srichterand my mails are sent in Latin-1 usually; I jsut checked one23:01
*** ignas has quit IRC23:02
*** MacYET has quit IRC23:04
philiKONsrichter, can you send me a private email?23:06
*** hazmat has joined #zope3-dev23:08
srichterphiliKON: done23:08
philiKONContent-Type: text/plain;23:09
philiKON  charset="iso-8859-1"23:09
philiKONthat's good :)23:09
philiKONheh, still on german keyboard, eh?23:10
srichteraehm, yep23:10
philiKONnow mozilla interprets it correctly23:10
philiKONmaybe it has to do with the lists23:10
srichterI love the switching in KDE: Strg+Alt+K23:10
philiKONor with gmane23:10
*** Aiste has quit IRC23:10
*** bradb_ is now known as bradb23:14
J1msrichter, I think I'll let you work on it then.23:20
J1mLet me know if you have any questions or want me to help with something.23:21
srichterJ1m: ok, I actually have a decent start on it now23:21
srichterI am taking notes too ;-)23:22
srichterbut it is very slow23:22
srichterpackaging, unpacking, building, testing, ...23:22
*** barsema has joined #zope3-dev23:29
*** Aiste has joined #zope3-dev23:31
*** th1a has joined #zope3-dev23:39
srichterJ1m: I have a problem23:46
srichterzope.apptesting, a new module, is not included23:46
srichterI have added it to zope/app/PACKAGE.cfg without success23:46, a new module, is not included23:47
philiKONsrichter, i think the package itself needs to grow the .cfg files too23:48
J1mI assume that you either checked it in or set up your zpkg map to point to local files, right?23:48
srichterJ1m: no, I do everything with SVN23:49
srichterthat's the reason I do so many checkins right now23:49
srichterphiliKON: it has one, though it should not need one, if it is mentioned in zope/app/PACKAGE.cfg23:49
srichtermaybe this is my problem, now I have a DEPENDENCIES.cfg, but no PACKAGE.cfg? But that makes no sense23:50
srichterJ1m: is simply not added to the release23:56
srichterI am using: Python zpkgtools/bin/zpkg -ca ZopeX323:56

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!