IRC log of #zope3-dev for Friday, 2005-04-22

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J1msrichter, I dunno, want me to look at it?00:43
srichterJ1m: I have communicated with Fred00:43
srichterand got it bit further00:43
srichterJ1m: so now I know how to add top-level packages, and pacakges00:45
srichternow I have to figure out what to do with zope.* packages00:45
srichterJ1m: looks pretty good; I am getting very few test failures now01:04
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J1mThanks for doing this01:15
J1mSee ya tomorrow01:15
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ChrisWwhat in zope.pagetemplate decides where macros are found?02:19
ChrisWie: if I want macros to come from other file system files, what do I have to implement?02:19
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* MacYET checks if philiKON implements IAnswersAllMyQuestions13:13
MacYETupss..provides :)13:13
philiKONi provide it, but that doesn't mean i fulfill the contract :)13:13
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MacYETpahh :-)13:13
MacYET"old" objects (plone,cmf content-types) don't implement my TXNG interfaces to be indexed...can I adapt them using adapters?13:14
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philiKONsure. that's usually what you want to do, provide an adapter from   IThisIsMyStupidContentObject  to  IICanTellYouWhatDataYouNeedToIndex13:15
philiKONthat way you only work with IICanTellYouWhatDataYouNeedToIndex on the index side13:16
MacYETand if these content-type have no __implement__ ? :)13:16
philiKONuse  <five:implements class="Products.CMFPlone...." interface="..." />13:17
philiKONnote that interface="..." needs to specify a *new style* interface (zope 3 interface)13:17
philiKONhowever, Five has an interface converter built in13:17
philiKON<five:bridge />13:17
MacYETthanks for the pointer13:17
* MacYET dances around13:19
srichterhey guys13:19
srichtertwo questions:13:19
srichter1. Do we want to distribute bforest?13:19
srichter2. I think we need another ZCML condition verb, like "isInstalled <package>" or just "installed <package>"13:21
srichterany ideas?13:21
philiKONwhen does <package> qualify for the 'installed' verb to be true?13:21
philiKONwhen it's importable?13:21
philiKONwhat's the verb we have now?13:22
philiKONright now, some package can "provide" a feature and another can require it, right?13:22
srichterhave feature13:22
philiKONs/require/have/g then :)13:22
srichteryes, but the feature must be set through a ZCML directive13:22
philiKONthat's not enough?13:22
srichterwhat if the package does not have a configure.zcml13:23
philiKONcan the feature be specified anywhere in the zcml tree?13:23
srichterfor example, if zope.bforest is available I want to publish its documentation in the Book Module of the API doc13:23
srichterof course, I could just create a package, but it seems overkill and a bad design decision13:24
philiKONi agree13:24
philiKON+1 then13:24
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philiKON(i just wanted to make sure we got the use case right :))13:25
srichterok, any better idea for the verb name?13:25
philiKONi was inclined to say +1 already13:25
srichterI thought about this too, but it should be a verb13:25
srichterI also thought about available13:26
philiKONhave should really be have_feature13:26
philiKONso then we could say have_package13:26
srichterI can do that, but might cause name conflicts or unwanted side effects13:26
philiKONyeah, we dont wanna mess with it this shortly before a release13:27
philiKONavailable is too general13:27
srichtermaybe have package:zope.bforest13:27
philiKONanything can be available13:27
philiKONah... mmh13:27
philiKONi think i'd go for installed13:27
philiKONzcml:condition="installed zope.bforest"13:27
srichterI think we need this feature now though13:27
philiKONi think that reads well13:27
srichteryes, I agree13:29
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srichteryipee the release is starting up! :-)14:05
ignassrichter, maybe you can tell me where should i look for the new request recording functionality mgedmin added to zope ?14:05
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srichterread the README.txt on how to get it going14:09
srichter(it's trivial)14:09
ignasthank you14:10
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ignassrichter, i guess, unless you want to backport it to some older Zope revision ...14:14
ignaswell i got a pogram that is tied to zope3 revision that has no recording yet ...14:15
ignasdid mgedmin do any changes to Zope3 to make the recorder work ? or he just added the new server ?14:15
srichterthe package is self-contained14:16
srichterand since no work was done on ZServer since, it should be easy to back-port14:16
ignashope so ;)14:17
philiKONsrichter, will the recorder be in x3.1?14:27
ignasthe porting was easy, the only difference was was renamed to ...14:29
philiKONignas, actually, was split into testing and tests14:29
philiKONbut yes14:29
srichterphiliKON: see my mail to zope3-dev14:33
srichterbad thing is, a lot of ftests fail in the release :-(14:33
philiKONwhat? why?14:33
philiKONbtw, the only one i can truly say yes on is
srichtersomething about security problems :-(14:34
srichterI think if we fix the security issue, most if not all ftests will pass14:35
philiKONwhat security issue is that?14:35
srichterno clue14:35
philiKONdo the ftests pass on a checkout?14:35
srichterof course14:35
srichterso someone has to dig into this14:36
srichterI have to write a paper today, so it won't be me14:36
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srichterJ1m: I got a  release running16:49
srichterJ1m: however, many functional tests in the released package fail because of some security problem.16:50
srichterJ1m: unfortunately, I have to write a Zope 3 paper for a conference today, so I will not have time to investigate further16:50
srichterto all, here is the script I use to test the release:16:52
srichterecho "Building Zope X3 Release ..."16:52
srichterPython zpkgtools/bin/zpkg -ca ZopeX316:52
srichterecho "Removing old Release Directory ..."16:52
srichterrm -rf ZopeX3-0.0.016:52
srichterecho "Unpacking new Release ..."16:52
srichtertar xvzf ZopeX3-0.0.0.tgz16:52
srichterecho "Entering Release Directory ..."16:52
srichtercd ZopeX3-0.0.016:52
srichterecho "Configuring Release ..."16:52
srichter./configure --prefix ./Z3 --with-python /opt/python2.4/bin/python16:52
srichterecho "Building Release ..."16:52
srichterecho "Installing Release ..."16:52
srichtermake install && cd Z316:52
srichter#echo "Running Tests ..."16:52
srichter#./bin/zopetest -vpu116:52
srichterecho "Making an Instance ..."16:52
srichter./bin/mkzopeinstance -d ZI -u foo:bar && cd ZI16:52
srichterecho "Starting Zope 3 ..."16:53
srichterit is not advanced and specific to my machine, but it demonstrates the necessary steps16:53
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* MacYET praises z317:51
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srichterTheuni: zagy: congrats on finishing the security eval document!18:10
srichterLooks insane to me. :-)18:11
J1msrichter, what is bforest?18:14
srichterJ1m: something someone from Zope Corp checked in, I think18:15
srichterlet me see whom we wanna blame18:15
srichterBTree-based dicts, IIRC18:16
J1moh yeah18:16
philiKONTheuni, what do you want us to do with comments on the document? check them in?18:18
J1mWe're using it in our projects.18:18
J1mIt doesn't really matter to us whether it's in 3.1, so I sugest leaving it out.18:18
MacYETbtreebased dicts? what#s the difference to OOBtrees?18:24
J1mNo, more like multimappings18:25
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TheuniphiliKON, srichter: Don't do anything yet. We have to arrange the tables still. If you have comments, please post the to zope3-dev. It needs some thought to make changes to that document to keep it consistent. I think Jim will look at it in depth as he already knows the procedure and the things we talked about endlessly. But you're of course invited to share your thoughts as well. :)18:29
Theuniof course it is insane, btw. ;)18:29
J1mTheuni, I have a proposal for you to consider.18:29
J1mFour our Zope 3 project, we've implemented a much simpler security policy that we'd be happy to open source if it would help the certification.18:30
Theunii think so. only if we don't have to step back too far. i really want to proceed (without rushing of course) finally.18:31
Theunianyway, i'm interested in looking at it.18:31
Theunigotta move now, to keep my girl happy. have a nice weekend, all of you.18:32
J1mI don't think we want to go through the bother of open sourcing it unless it helps the certification process.18:32
Theunithat's ok. can you mail me some description or something?18:33
J1mTheuni, please let me know how you'd like to look at it.18:33
srichterJ1m: ok18:33
Theunigreat. i'll be back on monday18:33
J1msrichter, ok what?18:33
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srichterJ1m: leaving out bforest18:33
J1msrichter, less is more :)18:34
srichterJ1m: could you have a look at the failing ftests in the release?18:35
srichterthis is the last outstanding issue18:35
srichterthere is also one unit test failing in zdaemon18:35
J1mok, in a bit18:36
srichterok, back to writing my paper, sigh18:37
srichterit is for a fairly prestigous conference18:42
srichterit would be good for Zope 3 to have a talk there18:42
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MacYETcan implements() handle z3 and z2 interfaces? /me hides18:47
J1mno, just z3 interfaces18:48
J1mNo need to hide18:48
MacYETjust wonder how marry both with five18:48
J1mYou don't18:49
J1mOver time, we should convert existing interfaces and deprecate the old interfaces.18:50
J1mIf someone had time, it would be nice to do this for 2.8, but I guess we won't.18:50
MacYETfor my index i need __implements__ make the index available to zope 2 and on the other hands five since to require implements() to register additional browser:pages18:50
J1mYou can use both18:50
srichterMacYET: yeah, Zope 2 can handle Zope 3's interfaces as far as I know, right?18:51
MacYETsrichter: not really18:52
J1mMacYET, z3 and z2 interfaces can coexist18:53
J1mThey don't interfere with one another18:53
MacYET__implements__=(IZ2, IZ3) won't work with five18:53
J1m__implements__ = IZ218:54
J1mwill work18:54
MacYETthis works, tnx18:54
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faassenMacYET: there's a bridge.19:17
faassenMacYET: so turn a z2 interface into a z3 interface, if you need it.19:17
MacYETjust fighting to get a browser:page configured19:20
faassenMacYET: the docs aren't helping?19:20
MacYETthey my page configure, zope 2 starts up but why try to call the page on an object: can not locate objects..19:21
faassenMacYET: hm.19:23
faassenyou shouldn't need the five:implements19:29
faassenas you're alread doing it on the class.19:29
faassenfive:implements is only useful if you are messing about with classes you don't control, like Five does with the basic Zope 2 objects.19:30
MacYETthis way from my last try19:30
faassenjust reporting the first that struck me.19:30
faassenyou need to make your object five:traversable19:31
MacYETbtw. the manual.htmlfile on codespeak has an used <five:implements.... with implements instead of interface19:31
faassenMacYET: oh, okay, thanks..I need to go through the docs and clean them up..19:31
faassenMacYET: anyway, making it a five:traversable should help.19:31
MacYETanway using old-style view=PageTemplateFIle() for now :)19:32
faassenMacYET: that's to tweak in a traversal hook.19:32
faassenMacYET: basically Five takes the approach that the Zope 3 ZCML should work as much a they do in Zope 3, but we add some extra five things to bully Zope 2 into behaving right. :)19:32
faassenwe don't want to bully all Zope 2 objects into this new traversal behavior, so that's why the special structured monkey patch five:traversable19:33
MacYETahhhhhh...this works19:33
* faassen grins.19:33
MacYETyou saved my day19:33
faassenyou're welcome. :)19:34
MacYETcan i configure the manage_addXXXForm through zcml? likely, no19:35
faassenthere is some code that is rather new and raw, so you may not want to use it now.19:36
faassento implement Zope 3 adding forms in Zope 3. we're using it.19:36
faassenfor a project here.19:36
faassenso basically you can do obj/+/myaddform.html19:36
MacYETok, nothing important19:36
faassenMacYET: if you want to play with that and improve it, we'd be happy. it's actually quite neat, though also hairy. :)19:37
MacYETcurrently sticking with the version in z2.8?19:37
faassenbut basically that doesn't mean things would show up in the z2 add list.19:37
MacYETthere are still enough walls to drive against :)19:37
faassenMacYET: it's not *that* new and hairy, it's actually a month or two old, it's just somewhat limited.19:37
faassenMacYET: and Lennart found a security issue with it on wednesday, which Sidnei will look into hopefully.19:38
faassenMacYET: by the way, we're planning a further synchup with Zope 2.8 next week, with some bugfixes and a few tweaks.19:38
faassenMacYET: after we release Five 1.0, which we'll do next week.19:38
MacYETi read that already19:39
faassenMacYET: ah, okay, good. :)19:39
faassenMacYET: just making sure.19:39
MacYETputting five into 2.8 was a good choice19:42
faassenMacYET: glad to hear that from you!19:42
faassenMacYET: it was interesting how fast there was consensus about it at the sprint. I brought it up as an "out there" proposal and then everybody started nodding, which took me aback a bit. :)19:43
MacYETit's sometimes hard to convince me19:43
faassenbut lots of people are itching to start using this in their codebases, and bundling it (especially the zope 3 library bits) makes that a lot easier.19:43
faassenMacYET: same here with me. :)19:43
MacYETright, and i can see that we could use it as well19:44
andrew_mhas anyone ever used page templates (.pt) to generate XML that is rendered into XHTML with XSLT on client side?19:48
andrew_mcontent and xml extension work fine but the mime-type is still html which confuses the browser19:49
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philiKONandrew_m, put a <?xml version="1.0" ?> on top of your zpt20:00
andrew_mphiliKON: i have that.. everything the browser gets is ok, except the mime-type20:00
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andrew_mphiliKON: hmm, i need to investigate that further to find out what the difference is between an XML file comming from zope and one loaded from the harddisk. only the latter are transformed by firefox somehow20:12
philiKONit's definitely the mime header20:14
philiKONyou could set it manually20:14
philiKONbut i'm sure there's a way to do that from zpt20:14
andrew_moh, that would be cool of course20:14
philiKONwithout doing tal:define="foo python:request.response.setHeader('mime-type', 'text/xml')20:14
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MacYETis there a way to figure out why a registered browser view is not available from the 'view' namespace?20:26
philiKONdon't use the 'view' namespace20:27
philiKONno idea where you got it from20:27
philiKONbut it's deprecated20:27
philiKONuse context/@@view_name instead20:27
MacYETfrom your book?20:27
MacYETor sr'sbook20:28
J1mphiliKON, that is shorthand for context/++view++view_name20:28
MacYETdon't know :)20:28
J1mThe long form isn't deprecated20:28
J1mYou are thinking of views, which si deprecated20:28
philiKONcontext/@@view_name == context/++view++view_name20:28
philiKONah, view20:28
philiKON'view' is your view object20:28
philiKONi thought you meant 'views'20:28
philiKONas in views/standard_macros (which should be context/@@standard_macros)20:29
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andrew_mphiliKON: thanks for the hint. that sets the mime-type fine, but still no rendering when it comes from zope. i'll keep you posted..20:32
MacYETcan i pass arguments to a method of the view object?20:33
* MacYET is confused20:34
MacYETa registered browser view should be available as view/view_name?20:34
philiKONview lookup in zpt is through  context/@@view_name20:43
philiKONor some_obj/@@view_name20:43
philiKONlike, some_obj/@@absolute_url20:43
MacYETand how can i pass args to a view?20:44
philiKONthis looks up the view and per zpt automatition calls it20:44
philiKONtal:define="myview some_obj/@@some_view" tal:content="python:myview(foo)"20:44
MacYETtnx, works20:46
andrew_mphiliKON: renders fine now - the XSLT file also had to come from zope somehow (same server, same port). didn't know that20:50
andrew_mkinda weird..20:52
MacYETphiliKON: some_obj/@@some_view calls the view instead of getting a reference20:53
philiKONor python:path('some_obj/@@some_view')20:55
philiKONwasn't thinking20:55
* MacYET grumbles *nocall:* :)20:55
philiKONthough, i'm not sure if path('...') would imply the obj is called as well20:55
J1mIt would be nice to change define so that nocall was the default.20:56
philiKONthough that would be a major break of compatability20:57
J1mMight be worth adding a new tal: attribute.20:57
J1mor whatever20:58
philiKONwith what purpose?20:58
J1mtal:set would be like define but without an implicit call.20:58
philiKONwell, ok20:58
philiKONbut it's really a TALES thing20:58
philiKONnot a TAL20:58
philiKONimplicit calling20:58
J1mWe would then document set as the prefered thing to use.20:58
philiKONtal:content and tal:replace behave like that too20:58
J1mIt's far less inappropriate in those other contexts.20:59
philiKONnot sure20:59
J1mI don't think it's a TALES thing, but I'd have to check.20:59
philiKONi think it is20:59
philiKONtal:attributes="href context/@@absolute_url"20:59
* MacYET defeated browser views20:59
J1mRight, it's useful there21:00
philiKONMacYET: 1  browser views: 1e2421:00
philiKONJ1m, i don't think we want to dictate tales behaviour judging by the tal directive you use it in21:00
J1mI don't think it's tales behavior.21:01
philiKONit may not be21:01
philiKONi could think of another way21:01
J1mI'm not sure though21:01
philiKONintroduce a new TAL namespace21:01
philiKONthat way you deliberately have to switch yoru templates to the new system21:02
philiKONand you don't have to remember any new directives21:02
philiKONs/directives/tal commands/21:02
J1mOTOH, it could be prett confusing for someone reading template source,21:03
J1mOTOH, it could be pretty confusing for someone reading template source,21:03
philiKONyes, that's the only disadvantage i can think of21:04
philiKONwoa... reading TAL sources is like pulling your finger nails out21:07
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philiKONJ1m, it's a TALES thing, i just checked the code. It's pretty obvious anyway, since it's specific to Path expressions and doesn't occurr with python expressions or so21:10
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J1mI have no frigging idea what testRetryNotAllowed is supposed to be testing.22:11
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srichterJ1m: he he22:41
J1mnon-doctest tests are a recipe for pain22:47
srichteryes, they are22:48
srichterI am trying to evangelize the twisted folks to use doc tests22:48
srichterbut their testing framework is a mess22:48
srichterso it is not as easy to integrate as in Zope.22:49
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