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| J1m | srichter, ayt? | 00:11 |
|---|---|---|
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| jbb666 | hi im extending this zope3 blog system for fun... I want to add the ability to have tags associated with each entry so you can do keyword searches/browsing. So I was trying to understand the way zope.index is meant to be used... Would it make sense for the Blog object (container for entries) to have an attribute which is a KeywordIndex and use the event system to notice changes?? | 00:46 |
| J1m | It could have an attribute that was a list of keywords | 00:49 |
| J1m | You could then use a keyword index in a catalog to index the keywords | 00:50 |
| jbb666 | ok so the catalog would be the preferred home for the keyword index... and since the KeywordIndex doesn't provide a method to get the list of keywords it stores as I noticed I'd use a list to keep track of that myself? | 00:50 |
| J1m | no | 00:51 |
| J1m | perhaps the keyword index should grow that functionality | 00:51 |
| jbb666 | it would be easy enough i think.... | 00:51 |
| J1m | yup | 00:51 |
| jbb666 | index._fwd_index.keys() | 00:51 |
| J1m | yup | 00:52 |
| J1m | Of couse, you want to update/create an interface and provide a doctest | 00:52 |
| J1m | are you a contributor? | 00:53 |
| jbb666 | no | 00:54 |
| J1m | wanna be one? :) | 00:54 |
| jbb666 | i've _just_ started hacking with Z3...i don't mind submitting patches once I figure I know what im doing ;) | 00:54 |
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| jbb666 | ok... for the catalog what is a recommended docid ... should it be the document's path or does it need to be an int? | 01:40 |
| J1m | You sould read some of the doctests | 01:40 |
| jbb666 | ok | 01:40 |
| J1m | The Z3 catalog uses an external int id utility | 01:40 |
| J1m | It assigns objects integer ids | 01:41 |
| J1m | That's what the catalog hands to the index | 01:41 |
| jbb666 | this is getting complicated ;) | 01:41 |
| J1m | nah | 01:41 |
| J1m | the main point is that the application doesn't have to wory about docids | 01:42 |
| J1m | The indexes use integers, just as in Z2 | 01:42 |
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| jbb666 | ahh i think im starting to understand a bit better ;) | 01:48 |
| jbb666 | ok not really ;) | 02:12 |
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| srichter | jbb666: still having troubles? | 05:49 |
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| jbb666 | srichter: im trying the learn by doing approach... right now im not really sure i understand how a catalog is supposed to be accessed from a package | 07:25 |
| srichter | so you first need to setup an intid utility | 07:26 |
| jbb666 | my impression after using the system for a while is that im supposed to create it within the default site area? | 07:26 |
| srichter | yes | 07:29 |
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| jbb666 | then in my application code i would lookup the utility by its interface... to find the Catalog for example...? I didn't notice that the catalog allows you to add a KeywordIndex however. Is there some way to do this via ZCML or some kind of package initialization or is that manual steps ? | 07:31 |
| srichter | no, this utility will be in the background | 07:33 |
| srichter | it should not be important for your further needs | 07:33 |
| jbb666 | i guess i just dont get how to use the catalog at all then... i searched and searched and found no examples.... in fact i might not even really _need_ a catalog, could probably just get away with a dictionary attached to my Blog object..... | 07:35 |
| srichter | did you look at README.txt of zope.app.catalog? | 07:37 |
| jbb666 | yes... i think its maybe a little high level for me at this time... but i will re-read one more time in an attempt to formulate some more focused qs | 07:38 |
| srichter | well, you need th eintid utility actually | 07:38 |
| srichter | because you need to call catalog.index_doc(initid, document) | 07:39 |
| jbb666 | ok so i can call getUtility(IIntIds) to get that.... and call intid.register() for each objcet i want to index to get its id..... | 07:47 |
| jbb666 | in that README.txt it shows you instantiating a Catalog() instead of trying to get a persistent instance.. thats one thing thats throwing me off | 07:49 |
| srichter | yes | 08:16 |
| srichter | well, it creates the catalog without adding it to the DB | 08:16 |
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| C81 | hello | 16:14 |
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| MistaTopfa | re | 17:19 |
| MistaTopfa | btw, what is best to use, recent svn or the release? | 17:20 |
| MistaTopfa | means: can something break by using svn? | 17:20 |
| srichter | SVN | 17:27 |
| srichter | usually not | 17:28 |
| srichter | C8N: hi | 17:28 |
| MistaTopfa | ok, thx, also does not seem to break ;-) | 17:30 |
| MistaTopfa | btw, these key references, are these references like Archetypes ones, thus something which can be used instead of the usual UID-based stuff or is this something completely different? | 17:31 |
| * MistaTopfa should get rid of the "btw," (btw) ;-) | 17:31 | |
| srichter | no clue | 17:32 |
| srichter | read the README.txt | 17:32 |
| MistaTopfa | well, from that I also don't have a clue, though it seems a bit like it though I wonder how it works.. guess, some ZODB magic ;-) | 17:33 |
| MistaTopfa | might ask Jim then | 17:33 |
| MistaTopfa | or just try them.. | 17:33 |
| srichter | hold on, I am glancing over the readme pretty quick | 17:34 |
| srichter | did you look at interfaces.py? | 17:35 |
| C8N | hallo srichter | 17:36 |
| MistaTopfa | yes | 17:37 |
| MistaTopfa | but I think if they are used to reference objects this also means to wake up objects once one needs e.g. the URL of them.. | 17:38 |
| srichter | MistaTopfa: so yes, it is a reference to the object without directly making it alink | 17:39 |
| MistaTopfa | wonder what happens if you move it | 17:39 |
| srichter | I am pretty sure it is used by the indexing stuff, but I do not know why you would want to use it | 17:39 |
| srichter | Jim provided little motivation in the documentation | 17:39 |
| MistaTopfa | well, I just remember that people were thinking about a reference engine at the last Gothenburg conference | 17:40 |
| MistaTopfa | so I wonder if that's the result :) | 17:40 |
| srichter | probably | 17:40 |
| MistaTopfa | but think so, looks like the discussion | 17:40 |
| MistaTopfa | the reason for usage: to keep links up to date if objects move around (as example) | 17:41 |
| MacYET_ | re | 17:43 |
| srichter | ahhh, I see | 17:43 |
| srichter | but I get this with a direct reference as well | 17:43 |
| MistaTopfa | what's a direct reference then? | 17:44 |
| srichter | x.y = y | 17:45 |
| srichter | but I guess this is for containment | 17:45 |
| srichter | so nevermind | 17:45 |
| srichter | well, mmh, this should work too: x['y'] = y | 17:45 |
| MistaTopfa | well, but wouldn't this mean to wake up all objects when using the references? | 17:46 |
| MistaTopfa | might be problematic with big reference sets | 17:47 |
| mexiKON | well, the idea of a reference engine is that you can categorize references | 17:47 |
| mexiKON | schooltool has a reference engine for z3 | 17:47 |
| MistaTopfa | also this, there need to be metadata | 17:47 |
| MistaTopfa | ah, should look at that :) | 17:47 |
| srichter | probably; this is a reason | 17:47 |
| mexiKON | it's included in schoolbell | 17:47 |
| mexiKON | i would like to see it in x3.2 | 17:48 |
| MistaTopfa | just writing one for z2, so I wonder if I should port it then.. but if there's one already then the better :) | 17:48 |
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| C8N | philipp: you mean in 3.2 :) | 18:04 |
| srichter | MistaTopfa: I think you should port SchoolBell's | 18:07 |
| srichter | it looks really cool | 18:07 |
| MistaTopfa | port to what? to z2? | 18:07 |
| srichter | the inclusion of teh schoolbell reference engine is a matter of MArk saying it can be ZPL :-) | 18:07 |
| MistaTopfa | downloaded it and will have a look | 18:08 |
| srichter | MistaTopfa: yep | 18:08 |
| MistaTopfa | well, mine is nearly finished actually having plugins, etc. | 18:08 |
| srichter | I see | 18:09 |
| srichter | I think Thomas Foerster had one too | 18:09 |
| srichter | it looked very nice and was pretty powerful | 18:09 |
| mexiKON | C8N, that hasn't been decided yet... :) | 18:09 |
| srichter | mexiKON: yes it has | 18:09 |
| mexiKON | oh | 18:10 |
| * mexiKON has to read up | 18:10 | |
| srichter | it will be Zope 3.x from now on | 18:10 |
| mexiKON | yay | 18:10 |
| mexiKON | big yay | 18:10 |
| C8N | > "It is in our opinion that Zope 3.1 is more than ready for production | 18:10 |
| C8N | > use, which is why we decided to drop the X for experimental. We will | 18:10 |
| C8N | > also continue to work on making the transition between Zope 2 and Zope 3 | 18:10 |
| C8N | > as smooth as possible. As a first step, Zope 2.8 includes Zope 3 | 18:10 |
| C8N | > features in the form of Five." | 18:10 |
| srichter | yes, Martijn's explanation has been accepted and adopted | 18:10 |
| C8N | by martijn, approved by jim | 18:10 |
| MistaTopfa | I dunno if I really need that transition. I think I will just go directly to Z3 then.. | 18:10 |
| mexiKON | yeah, i read that expalanation, liked it a lot | 18:10 |
| mexiKON | it expressed what i was thinking all along | 18:11 |
| mexiKON | srichter, btw, if we ask mark nicely, i think he would say yes | 18:11 |
| MistaTopfa | letting all the z2 cruft behine me ;-) | 18:11 |
| srichter | mexiKON: he has been already asked in an E-mail to the SchoolBell mailing list where he was CCed | 18:11 |
| srichter | MistaTopfa: yep, "Go Zope 3!" | 18:11 |
| mexiKON | ah, ok | 18:12 |
| mexiKON | ball is in his court then | 18:12 |
| MistaTopfa | trying to but there's a lot of learning still in front of me | 18:12 |
| srichter | "life is peaceful there" | 18:12 |
| C8N | :D | 18:13 |
| MistaTopfa | oh, update finished, need to reboot.. cu later | 18:13 |
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| MistaTopfa | re | 18:29 |
| MistaTopfa | seems as if the schoolbell relationship engine is also storing the object directly in the link | 18:29 |
| srichter | dunno | 18:30 |
| srichter | but I think they would happily accept a switch to keyreference | 18:30 |
| MistaTopfa | that's what I understand from the code.. | 18:30 |
| MistaTopfa | a LinkSet contains Link objects and these store some metadata and the target object | 18:31 |
| srichter | I know nothing detailed about the engine, so I cannot comment | 18:31 |
| MistaTopfa | keyreferences might be better but still you'd need all the objects to wake up when you need to derefence them (e.g. get the URLs) | 18:31 |
| srichter | yeah | 18:32 |
| srichter | maybe a special reference object could handle this special case though | 18:32 |
| MistaTopfa | I just store the metadata inside the source object as well as the actual URL | 18:33 |
| MistaTopfa | when the object moves I update this information | 18:33 |
| MistaTopfa | might even be easier in z3 as you have events for that | 18:33 |
| MistaTopfa | in z2 it's just a hack ;-) | 18:33 |
| MistaTopfa | but from what I read, schoolbell itself also looks quite nice :) | 18:34 |
| MistaTopfa | (and I like the name ;-) | 18:34 |
| srichter | yeah, it is | 18:34 |
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| VladDrac | ok | 18:42 |
| VladDrac | is the zope3 trunk save to develop against? | 18:42 |
| VladDrac | hmm svn upping my trunk fails | 18:45 |
| VladDrac | ok fixed :) | 18:46 |
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| jbb666 | how can i get the names of ZPT templates displayed in the traceback? | 19:38 |
| mexiKON | VladDrac, yeah. the trunk will be released soon as 3.1 | 19:40 |
| VladDrac | mexikon ok, co'd a fresh ttrunk - mine was broken for unknown reason | 19:46 |
| srichter | vinsci: yep | 20:00 |
| srichter | jbb666: you can't | 20:01 |
| jbb666 | it appears to me that zope.exceptions provides the ability to add supplemental info for things like ZPT but maybe its not plugged into ZPT yet? | 20:01 |
| jbb666 | so what am i supposed to do... set a breakpoint somewhere so I can figure out which template its going into? | 20:01 |
| srichter | zope.exceptions is totally generic | 20:02 |
| srichter | Just comment out parts of the template till you narrow it down | 20:02 |
| srichter | it will show you the failing expression, so it is usually easy to find | 20:02 |
| C8N | (19:03:36) srichter: vinsci: yep <- to wich question? o.o | 20:02 |
| srichter | C8N: I meant to address VladDrac | 20:03 |
| C8N | ;) | 20:03 |
| * VladDrac disables srichters tab-key | 20:04 | |
| * VladDrac dives into pau, principals and security | 20:04 | |
| * C8N sees VladDrac's brain oozing from his ears | 20:07 | |
| * vinsci helps VladDrac | 20:08 | |
| C8N | vinsci: helping disabling or oozing? ;) | 20:10 |
| vinsci | disabling, I think :) | 20:11 |
| * VladDrac sticks the tabkey in his ear | 20:13 | |
| VladDrac | that'll stop the oozing *and* the nickname confusion! | 20:13 |
| VladDrac | srichter: what's the current state of the pdf on http://www.zope.org/DevHome/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/Zope3Book ? | 20:13 |
| * VladDrac notices a typesetting issue (but I assume they're already fixed) | 20:14 | |
| srichter | VladDrac: outdated; I never merged the SAMS version into it | 20:14 |
| * VladDrac should buy the book (I assume it's in stock now?) | 20:16 | |
| srichter | yep, you should | 20:16 |
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| jbb666 | srichter: well I can apparently... I hooked up zope.exceptions ExceptionFormatter class into the debugskin and it works great. I also just added some code into the TAL interpreter to display the source file position/filename, etc | 20:30 |
| srichter | might be worth a bug report or check it in | 20:31 |
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| * MistaTopfa has all the books ;-) | 20:44 | |
| srichter | :-) | 20:45 |
| jbb666 | i found this bug in catalog... basically the interface ICatalogIndex defines __parent__ = zope.schema.Field() This causes bad stuff to happen when using the DisplaySchemaView... | 21:07 |
| MacYET_ | wait for textindexng3 :) | 21:07 |
| jbb666 | well, it'll have to use this same UI as well im sure... its nothing major im just learning Z3 by hacking around and noticing things | 21:08 |
| srichter | jbb666: yeah; change it to zope.interface.Attribute() | 21:27 |
| jbb666 | does Attribute support constraints? | 21:31 |
| srichter | oh, no, it does not | 21:35 |
| srichter | well, you can tell the display schema view to ignore the __parent__ attribute | 21:36 |
| srichter | by specifying the fields you do want to show | 21:36 |
| jbb666 | in the ZCML? | 21:36 |
| srichter | yes | 21:36 |
| jbb666 | i was noticing that.... ok that's probably best.... it might not be a bad idea for display schema's to ignore prefix of __ as thats not likely something a user would want to change.... | 21:36 |
| srichter | I agree | 21:39 |
| srichter | please make a bug report | 21:39 |
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| jbb666 | ok http://www.zope.org/Collectors/Zope3-dev/397 | 21:47 |
| srichter | thanks | 21:47 |
| jbb666 | i can see there's still a lot of work to be done for z3 ;) | 21:48 |
| jbb666 | of course the foundation is solid | 21:48 |
| srichter | jbb666: please become a contributor and help out! | 21:49 |
| srichter | this way you can make checkins instead of writing bug reports ;-) | 21:50 |
| jbb666 | ok | 21:50 |
| srichter | please sign a contributor agreement and send it via E-mail to Jim. | 21:51 |
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| srichter | mkerrin: are you there? | 21:57 |
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| mkerrin | hi | 22:11 |
| srichter | mkerrin: hi | 22:12 |
| mkerrin | I am currently working on this Twisted FTP stuff. Lots of fun. | 22:12 |
| srichter | cool | 22:12 |
| srichter | I was just going to ask... | 22:12 |
| jbb666 | how do i get an app object from zopectl debug ala Z2? | 22:13 |
| srichter | you can just use the Python prompt? | 22:15 |
| srichter | >>> from zope.app import appsetup | 22:16 |
| jbb666 | ok | 22:16 |
| jbb666 | cool, i created a new KeywordIndex TTW addable and it just indexed my blog entries ;) | 22:17 |
| srichter | >>> app = appsetup.database('Data.fs') | 22:17 |
| srichter | yeah | 22:17 |
| jbb666 | ok how do I find the obejcts in my site from app? | 22:18 |
| srichter | try dir(app) | 22:19 |
| srichter | sunno | 22:19 |
| srichter | dunno | 22:19 |
| jbb666 | heh | 22:20 |
| srichter | sd never use this kind of analysis | 22:20 |
| srichter | because we test things in doctests | 22:20 |
| jbb666 | ahh | 22:21 |
| srichter | >>> root_folder = db.open().root().get('Application') | 22:22 |
| jbb666 | i just wanted to play ;) | 22:22 |
| jbb666 | and i notice that I can't do root_folder.folder_name I have to use root_folder['folder_name'] which is not as nic | 22:22 |
| jbb666 | e | 22:22 |
| jbb666 | this mode can be very handy sometimes to examine the state of your database | 22:23 |
| srichter | huh? | 22:24 |
| srichter | that was about the worst of Zope 2 | 22:25 |
| srichter | because attributes popped out of nowhere | 22:25 |
| jbb666 | ahh | 22:25 |
| srichter | any containerish object is now a mapping to other objects | 22:25 |
| srichter | which is much better defined | 22:25 |
| jbb666 | me learning ;) | 22:25 |
| srichter | and allows for much more flexible object naming | 22:25 |
| srichter | no problemo | 22:26 |
| jbb666 | ok gonna write a test instead ;) | 22:26 |
| srichter | yes, its much more fun and you write documentation :-) | 22:29 |
| srichter | (so do docfiletests) | 22:29 |
| jbb666 | this one involves a placefulsetup so its going to be in a class.... | 22:30 |
| srichter | nope | 22:31 |
| srichter | there are plenty of examples out there doing placefulsetup in a pure docfiletest | 22:31 |
| jbb666 | no? i gotta register utiltities and stuff too | 22:31 |
| srichter | easy | 22:31 |
| jbb666 | heh | 22:31 |
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| srichter | >>> from zope.app.testing import ztapi | 22:31 |
| srichter | >>> ztapi.addUtility(utility, iface, name=name) | 22:32 |
| srichter | for placeful equivalents see: | 22:32 |
| srichter | >>> from zope.app.testing import setup | 22:32 |
| srichter | >>> dir(setup) | 22:32 |
| srichter | see zope/app.authentication/tests.py | 22:33 |
| srichter | and | 22:33 |
| jbb666 | i find it very useful to use glimpse with the Z3 code base | 22:34 |
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| srichter | see zope/app.authentication/README.txt | 22:36 |
| srichter | it shows you how to deal with placeful setups | 22:36 |
| jbb666 | cool thanks | 22:37 |
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| jbb666 | im looking at Z3 book... under Local Utilities.... the Catalog is also a local utility so I guess I should use similar code as queryNextTheme (from Smiley example) | 23:22 |
| srichter | yes, probabkly | 23:24 |
| srichter | though the trunk has a nicer aPI now :-) | 23:24 |
| jbb666 | which API? | 23:24 |
| jbb666 | utils? | 23:24 |
| jbb666 | you mean i just got this book and its already obsolete ?! i want my money back ;) | 23:25 |
| jbb666 | what does BBB stand for? | 23:27 |
| srichter | BBB --> backward-compatibility | 23:28 |
| srichter | the book is aimed at 3.0 | 23:28 |
| srichter | the book will work with 3.1, but it will spew many deprecation warnings | 23:29 |
| jbb666 | who's the main developer for zope.index and zope.app.catalog? | 23:38 |
| srichter | I think Jim made the last major revision | 23:39 |
| srichter | we do not have maintainers for core packages | 23:40 |
| *** vinsci has quit IRC | 23:46 | |
| *** vinsci has joined #zope3-dev | 23:46 | |
| jbb666 | ok thats enuf for one day.... | 23:48 |
| srichter | jbb666: btw, where is the blog located? | 23:49 |
| jbb666 | in src/zblog... | 23:50 |
| jbb666 | or yuou mean via svn? i am using someone elses blog and extending it for kicks | 23:51 |
| srichter | no, where did you download the code | 23:51 |
| srichter | yeah, SVN | 23:51 |
| jbb666 | http://codespeak.net/svn/z3/zblog/ | 23:53 |
| srichter | ok | 23:53 |
| srichter | I need to ask Michael to move it to Zope's repo | 23:53 |
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