IRC log of #zope3-dev for Thursday, 2005-05-12

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VladDracah great, so little done and already reached the limits of form generation :(00:09
bradbhow do i get the widget of a field IFoo['bar']?00:10
srichterVladDrac: huh? You can override anything in the form class00:11
bradb(sorry, i meant to say in the method of a view that isn't an add or edit form)00:11
BjornTbradb: you can use setUpWidget to setup the widget for you00:11
VladDracbradb have a peak at
bradbi tried zapi.getViewProviding(IFoo['bar'], IDisplayWidget, self.request), and also with IInputWidget, and it told me it couldn't find the view00:11
srichtergetViewProviding is deprecated, I think00:12
VladDracsrichter I'm trying to define a 'base' interface for my content objects, derive my specific content interfaces from it and use the content interfaces as schema for editforms00:12
bradbsrichter: i used that because there are code samples in Zope 3 tests doing that00:13
VladDracbut then it only renders the attributes in the content interface, not the base interface00:13
srichterI think you can explicitly list the fields you want to display00:13
* bradb sees if the slightly awkward setUpWidget will do what i want00:14
VladDracsrichter true (fixed some catalog issue that way)00:14
VladDracok that works00:16
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VladDrac(what I'm actually doing is redefining the Title attribute in my main schema  and passing it get/set to DC title)00:19
VladDrac(dunno if there's a more zope3-ish way to do that)00:19
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VladDracwill there be any z3 sprinting at EP?00:56
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omegadanConceptually what is the purpose of containers? their intended use?03:10
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omegadanAny places I can read about "Sources" ? :)04:56
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projekt01Hi tarek, how is you webmail doing?12:08
tarekhi projekt01, I did not have time to work on the menu items yet, i have blocking issues on btrees :/12:09
projekt01It's Five related, I guess12:09
tarekyes, i don't really know what's going on, some weird side effects12:10
tarekbut you guys gave me very good tips yesterday  on menus, and markers, i can't wait to try it out :)12:11
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tareknow i need to find a btreefolder guru :)12:12
projekt01I don't think I can help if it's Five related, but can you describe shortly what happens?12:14
tarekok sure12:14
tareki have a btreefolder2 that contains folderish objects12:15
projekt01Uhhh, that's Zope2, right?12:15
tarekyes :/12:15
tarekit's in z2 zodb so... i don't think i can't do it in other way12:16
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tareki need to rename some of those obejct, so i have used setobj and delob, because regular Folder apis does seem to work in a btreefolder (renamePObcts and stuff)12:17
tarekso it works fine, but when i view them thru a five view object that creates a zope2 page templates12:17
tareki get an attribute error in the publisher12:18
tarekit says my request object does not have a response attribute12:18
tarekand i stop and relaunch zope, it works then12:18
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projekt01Ok, all I can say is, that the request in z3 has a response attribute.12:19
tarekso it does in z212:19
tarekthe first step i think, is to set up the response headers12:20
tarekthat's where it breaks12:20
J1mtarek, the Five crowd hangs out at #z3-base12:20
J1mThis sounds pretty Five specific.12:21
tarekyes. ok sorry :)12:21
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tarekthanks projekt01 ;)12:22
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projekt01tarek, sorry I don't have any idea how z2 ZODB, Five, btreefolder2 and the z3 part plays together.12:23
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tarekyes, sorry my bet, Jim is right it's more Five specific. But when we have those issues, it's kind of hard to get the whole picture (z2 ? z3 ? Five ?)12:24
projekt01Yes, I agree12:25
projekt01But perhaps, dreamcatcher or hdima on z3-base can help you, I'm sure they know z2 very well and have z3 expirience12:26
projekt01Btw, we create a Word/OpenOffice to HTML/PDF converter utility for z3 right now, if somebody is interested in, let me know.12:29
* VladDrac is considering a transformation utility12:36
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J1mprojekt01, I'm sure than many people are interested.12:57
J1mI think that there are a number of these around.12:57
J1mI think that both Archetyps and Silva have these.12:57
srichterSilva does it via Silva XML; I am pretty sure12:58
srichterprojekt01: are you sure, there are no free ones?12:58
srichterI think the wv2 library does this12:58
srichterpersonally, I would jsut use UNO in OpenOffice to create PDF and maybe even HTML, depending how good the output would be12:59
srichterpyUNO now ships with OpenOffice 2.012:59
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projekt01J1m, srichter, we implemented it allread for silva in a earlier project. The without the overhead from the Silva Docma server part.13:40
projekt01Yes, we use PyUNO13:40
projekt01It's allread converted to z3, up and running now ;-)13:40
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projekt01Z3 is really easy for integrations if you have a working python product ;-)13:41
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projekt01See for more info13:42
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tarekprojekt01: ayt ?14:47
tarekyour cms is in german right ?14:48
tareki mean *also* in german14:48
projekt01You mean if we support i18n or if the documentation is in german?14:48
tarekno i mean did you have issues with forms that contains caracters that cannot be decoded using a dry unicode()14:49
tarektypically, german, french inputs14:50
projekt01Yes, I have one, but I didn't take a look at this. In one utility we read a file and use some text for display14:50
projekt01Could be that the text file isn't unicode14:51
projekt01And there we have some french words.14:51
projekt01Which didn't get right decoded.14:51
projekt01I can you tell more on this next monday, I have to fix it till then.14:52
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tarekoh ok, i was talking about widgets14:54
projekt01Not in widgets, just in some xmltree parts, where VladDrac changed in the buildTree test setup14:56
tarekok thx14:56
VladDracwhat did I do?14:56
projekt01Perhaps you can take a look at this part in and the test files14:56
projekt01VladDrac, nothing worng14:57
VladDracprojekt: but what did I do at all?14:57
* VladDrac doesn't recall buildtree / xmltree test setups14:57
tarekok thx14:58
projekt01Added a Cyrillic wor to the buildTree od buildFolder method in the zope3 test setup14:58
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VladDracwasn't me15:05
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projekt01VladDrac, Ah, sorry, it was dhima, I guess15:08
hdimaprojekt01: yes, you right :-)15:08
projekt01hdima the zope3 top contributer ;-)15:10
hdimano :)15:10
* hdima now digging in some TAL/MessageID issues... Ugh...15:12
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dagnachewhello all15:13
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projekt01hdima, take a look at the subversion statistic, you are the most active author ;-)15:15
dagnachewhello projekt15:15
srichterprojekt01: right now he surely is15:16
srichterprojekt01: is that a roger statistic or is there really some sort of tool to determine the activity of people?15:16
dagnachewhello stricher15:17
projekt01If you use TortoiseSVN, you can take a look at the statistic15:17
projekt01On windows ;-)15:17
srichterah, I see15:17
dagnachewI need an advice15:17
dagnachewcan someone tell me15:17
srichteryou have to ask the question first ;-)15:17
dagnachewwhat is the state of zope wright know ?15:17
srichterZope 3?15:18
dagnachewcan my products in zope 2 work in zope 315:18
srichterand won't for a long time (and I would say never)15:18
dagnachewso zope 3 will be always experimental ?15:18
srichterZope 3 packages can be used in Zope 2 via Five though15:18
dagnachewsrichter what do you think of the situation ?15:20
srichterit's all good15:20
dagnachewzope 3 not being backward compatible15:21
srichterit's better this way15:21
srichterZope 2 products are usually awefully designed and people are better off redesigning them15:21
dagnachewdo you think the products for zope 2 will be rewriteen15:21
regebrodagnachew: Zope3 stops being experimental with Zope 3.115:21
VladDracis anyone faimiliar with the rule: "never take truth value of non simple-types"15:21
regebroMost products will not be rewritten. Many because they don't need to, or becuase they make no sense.15:22
dagnachewhow are you15:22
regebroThere will however be other ways of doing the same thing. ;(15:22
srichterdagnachew: absolutely; CPS is already on its way by porting a lot of their features to Zope 315:22
regebroOpps that should  be :) not :(15:22
regebrodagnachew: I'm fine.15:22
dagnachewwill it work under zope 315:23
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srichterPlone will eventually be reimplemented and I am sure they will provide migration tools15:23
regebroI expect it to be a Plone 3 that runs under Zope3, yes.15:23
srichterit makes much more senes on their level though15:23
dagnachewregebro there are great products too under zope 2.715:24
dagnachewlike Fle315:24
regebroSure. And maybe there will be backwards compatibility in the future, but I wouldn't count on it.15:24
dagnachewwhat use will be zope 3 without great products ?>15:25
regebroRather there will be tools to help authors port products, like Fle3 to Zope3.15:25
dagnachewo ic15:25
regebrodagnachew: It will be nothing without great products. Whichis why you should start writing great products for Zope3. ;)15:25
projekt01dagnachew, zope3 is a very, very good base for develop products15:26
projekt01Much better then everything we have15:26
dagnachewwhen zope 3.1 will be out ?15:26
projekt01Depends on contributing/bugfix, I guess15:27
dagnachewI have another question15:27
regebroDon't know what the current status is, but pretty soon.15:27
dagnachewwhy php blog tools seem much nicer than python ?15:28
regebroBecause people who use PHP ahre HTML-hacker, while people who use python are software developers.15:28
regebroSo PHP stuff has a tendency to look good, and Python stuff has a tendency to have loads of (slightly hidden) features. :)15:29
dagnachewI asked this questions because I15:29
projekt01regebro, ;-)15:29
dagnachewthe enduser tnds15:29
dagnachewtends more for the eye candy15:29
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dagnachewguys in your opinion15:29
regebroI know, and that's a problem with Zope-stuff in general. Quite often it doesn't look pretty,15:30
dagnachewis it possible to build tools15:30
dagnachewfor exemple bloog tools with pretty CCS stuff15:30
regebroOf course.15:30
dagnachewI have in mind Wordpress15:30
dagnachewWordpress sites are in my opinion one of the bets blogs around15:31
regebroI think this blog looks OK:
regebroI don't know wordpress, maybe it has loads of good features.15:32
dagnachewthis kind of blog15:34
srichterI will start the serious release cycle as soon as the really critical bugs are fixed15:35
srichterI think a real showstopper for an alpha is the WebDAV breakage15:35
andrew_mhmm.. does anyone know what could be wrong when (obj.__class__ == X) != isinstance(obj, X)?15:35
regebrodagnachew: Yes, what about it?15:35
srichterI would be willing to release an alpha when this bug is fixed15:36
dagnachewit looks much nicer ?15:36
dagnachewdon't you think15:36
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SteveAandrew_m: isinstance doesn't work well when obj or X is security-proxied15:37
SteveAalso, note that obj.__class__ == X doesn't take subclassing into account15:37
dagnachewregebro take a look15:37
regebroI have, what about it?15:38
SteveAyou can use X in obj.__mro__ for that, if obj is not a classic class or some other funky metaclass instance15:38
srichterandrew_m: SteveA is right, use zapi.isinstance instead15:38
andrew_mthanks - i'll try15:38
SteveAi really dislike zapi, btw15:38
dagnachewdid you the wordpress screenshots15:38
SteveAit encourages use of zope3 only as a large lump of stuff15:38
dagnachewis it possible to do the same15:38
dagnachewwith python15:38
dagnachewcorrect me i am worng15:38
srichterSteveA: noone forces you to use it :-)15:39
SteveAand removes awareness of what parts you're using15:39
dagnachewif I am wrong15:39
regebroOf course it's possible, dagnachew !15:39
srichterWhen I develop a Zope 3 app, I love it15:39
dagnachewall that with wordpress is CSS hack wright ?15:39
SteveAsrichter: i don't use it.  but, in my opinion, i think it is bad for the zope3 framework.15:39
regebroThe design is HTML and CSS. It has NOTHING to do with which programming language you use.15:39
andrew_mok, well, zapi.isinstance does the trick for now - thanks15:39
dagnachewregbro correct me if I am wrong15:39
dagnachewzope uses zptl instead of CSS ?15:40
srichterSteveA: I see what you mean, but it is really good for higher-level people15:40
srichternot worrying where something is coming from when developing a Zope 3 is good15:40
regebroNo. I guess you mean ZPT, Zope Page Templates.15:40
srichterZope 3 apps I meant15:40
dagnachewdoes zope use CSS ?15:40
regebroThat is a template language.15:40
srichterdagnachew: of course!15:41
regebroZope uses CSS if your templates use CSS.15:41
regebro(Which they should).15:41
SteveAsrichter: that's what getUtility and adapt() are for ;-)15:41
dagnachewsrichter did you see the wordpress screenshots ?15:41
SteveAseeing getUtility come from zapi particularly irks me15:41
regebroZPT is not "instead of" CSS or "instead of HTML".15:41
hdimasrichter: I'm afraid that we will need to defer TAL/MessageID issues to the 3.2 time15:42
dagnachewsorry to distrub you guys15:42
srichterdagnachew: so what? as regebro already pointed out its just HTML and CSS15:42
srichterdagnachew: Nuxeo's blog site looks good too in the same way15:43
dagnachewwe will see two zope comunities ?15:43
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srichterdagnachew: nope15:43
dagnachewI am sorry srichter15:43
srichterhdima: why?15:43
dagnachewwordpress sites are look much nicer15:43
srichterhdima: I really want implicit translation out of there; regardless to what we do in 3.215:44
dagnachewI mean two zope communites15:44
dagnachewzope 2.XX and zope 315:44
regebrodagnachew: Well, if you think they look nice, hire their web designer. :)15:44
regebrodagnachew: no, it's the same community.15:44
dagnachewwhat do you advice to implement a prodcution environement in zope15:44
dagnachewzope 2.7 or zope315:45
regebrodagnachew: I repeat: Looking nice is just a question of design, not what programming language you use.15:45
srichterdepends on what your needs are15:45
hdimasrichter: for example, now there is no way to use tal:replace and i18n:translate and it can take time15:45
regebroI recommend Zope3 if you are creating a web application from scratch. I recommend Zope2 if you need a content management system.15:46
srichterhdima: what do you mean "there is no way"? It does not work?15:46
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ChrisWany distutils-gifted people here?15:46
hdimasrichter: if you use tal:replace and i18n:translate the error will be raised15:46
dagnachewregebro is it wrong to sugest that zope3 is an empty frameowrk ?15:47
regebroI wouldn't call it "empty", but yes, it'sa framework,15:47
srichterhdima: but due to a bug, not onpurpose, right?15:47
regebroSo is Zope2, but Zope 2 has loads of finished applications, like CPS, Plone and so on.15:47
dagnacheware there already products for zope 3?15:47
regebroYes, there are already products for Zope3, but not as many.15:48
srichteryes, Tiks for example, which is production use; there are a couple other apps too15:48
dagnachewthank you all for your advice15:48
srichterSchoolTool and Canonical's launchpad also use Zope 315:48
hdimasrichter: I don't know for now how to fix this :)15:48
srichterhdima: ok, it will not be a show stopper, since it already existed in 3.0, but it would be a bonus if you get it fixed15:50
hdimasrichter: the error message is: "i18n:translate and tal:replace are mutually exclusive"15:50
srichterhdima: working on show-stoppers is more important15:50
hdimasrichter: I think so too15:50
srichterhdima: can we still remove explicit translation for tal:content cases?15:50
hdimasrichter: tal:content and tal:replace are translated in the one place, so I don't think so15:52
srichterok, crap15:52
srichterthat means one more version where people get exposed to the wrong thing15:52
hdimamaybe I found some workarounds, but the code will be worse :(15:54
srichtermmh, put a big fat TODO in the code, so that we will know for later15:54
hdimaok :)15:55
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regebroOK, but a bug fat TODO if you have to, but mention the collector issue, please. :)16:08
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hdimaregebro: ok :)16:11
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projekt01Now, I know what's wrong with the addMenuItem directive, if you use the factory attribute for a class, you can use the addMenuItem only once for the factory class16:38
projekt01Because the class get's registered as a Ifactory utility.16:39
projekt01If you like to use the addMEnuItem for another Iadding implementation, which is possible,16:39
projekt01This ends in a duplicated IFactory utility regsitration16:39
projekt01I propose to change this and use a already registred factory id in the addMenuItem and not register other factories with a prefix BrowserAdd__!16:41
projekt01notice, the factory attribute is used for all folders or components without a addform16:44
projekt01This means you can't use the addMenuItem directive for folder classes more then once! (in different IAdding views)16:45
projekt01I guess nobody uses own IAdding views right now, that is the view called "+" ;-)16:46
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srichterprojekt01: what about the cases where no factory is registered for a given class?16:58
projekt01That's a missconfiguration;-)16:59
projekt01I was wrong, there is a for attribute where you have to use additional to the menu if you use a different IAdding17:01
projekt01This means the addMenuItem directive is working for other Iadding views.17:02
projekt01But I don't like it anyway. It's to much complexity.17:02
projekt01And the worst part is that all menu items get called every time you access the ZMI and check the constraints for adding.17:03
projekt01I hope I can find another less performant critcal concept for 3.217:04
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bradbdoes it make sense to want to render a Choice field with a widget that allows multi select? if not, what field type do i want that allows 1. me to specify a vocab of allowable options and 2. allows for selection of multiple values from that list17:05
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BjornTbradb: List(value_type=Choice(...))17:07
BjornT(or some other sequence field)17:07
bradbi thought of that, but i got the impression that it wouldn't render a multi-select widget as i expect17:08
bradbi expected it would render multiple dropdowns17:08
* bradb gives it a quick try then17:08
projekt01Hm, would be nice to have a online help topic which tells you which field combination renders which widgets ;-)17:10
BjornTi'm not sure, though, if the default widget works if you're not dealing with strings. i've had problems with that before...17:11
bradbi think this works. i should have tried it before asking.17:12
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VladDrac <- scary (click 'test ausfuhren')17:17
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srichterVladDrac: yeah, but only if you use FF17:30
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