IRC log of #zope3-dev for Thursday, 2005-05-19

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OD-awayI wanna look for bugs :)01:44
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__odiesomeday ... when I have learned enough :)01:51
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srichter__odie: bugs in Zope 3?03:16
srichter__odie: btw, how is the benchmarking with psyco going?03:16
__odiesrichter: yea eventually id like to get involved in development, but I am milse away from understanding enough ... ive been looking to get involved again in some OS projects03:17
__odieand as far as psycho, I havent tried anything yet :)  I need to make some kind of benchmarking suite I guess03:18
srichter__odie: I think the easiest way of finding problems is by developing an application using Zope 303:18
srichteractually, there is a script, where you can call a URL x times03:18
srichterand it will give you some benchmarks, I think03:19
__odieI was planning on that actually, in a few weeks here when ive threshed out my design03:19
srichterwhat are you working on?03:19
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__odieits kind of hard to explain ... let me think abuot the best way to phrase it for just a second ...03:21
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__odiesrichter: know much about construction especially waterworks? hehe03:22
srichterI know a bit about construction as my dad is a civil eng. and I am a physicist :-)03:22
__odiegreat! the program automates some of the bidding process03:23
srichterlike for public bidding?03:23
__odienah, more like inhouse stuff03:24
srichterwhat type of bidding though?03:24
srichtercontractors for jobs?03:24
__odieactually, bidding on parts.  When you are building a building, say, you have companies bid on bundles of parts (say pipes, tiles, etc)03:25
__odiethe program assists the people who generate THOSE bids03:26
srichterohh, ok03:26
srichterso I guess the process is similar to public bidding, just on a different scale03:26
__odieit just gets really complicated when you try to imagine a schema which can store any possible construction part03:26
srichterthat would be a great zope.schema acid test :-)03:27
__odiewe'll see If I can figure it out :)03:27
srichterI guess you would categorize the parts and create derived schemas03:28
__odiea schema for each type of part? even that would be impossible ... :) its quite a problem :)03:29
srichterI mean creating flexible schemas is not that big of an issue03:30
srichterso basically you build a schema for each part03:30
__odiewell, im planning on cheating right now :)03:30
srichterbut then the tricky thing is that indexing and searching becomes a problem03:30
srichtersince you have no standard fields03:30
__odieyea! exactly03:31
srichterunless you create type of fields03:31
srichterso you can create fields that will contribute to a full-text index of the part for example03:31
__odiewell, I think I have it worked out more or less.  I am simply going to have almost all the fields be text fields :)03:31
srichteror a keyword type field that contributes to the keyword list03:31
__odieand define a sort of a standard meta-language03:32
srichterI see03:32
srichteryou could create a special test field that knows how to validate the meta-language03:32
__odieyea exactly :)03:33
__odiethe meta-language will just be to standardize the language, w = weight, etc etc03:33
srichter(sort of what epydoc does)03:33
__odieit will search on defined fields, but allow people to enter fields that can be searched still but not necessarily meaningful to the schema03:33
__odielike, most parts will be accompanied by engineering diagrams03:34
__odieso you might enter (radius 1) r1 = 3.25"03:34
srichteroh, I see03:34
__odieim still unsure about all this :)03:34
srichtermaybe you can parse this and also store a Python value03:35
srichterso it will be better for other representations/formats, ...03:35
__odieyea something like that03:36
__odieim only about 10 pages into the design document so I still have some wiggle room :)03:36
__odieplus im on extra strength vicodin right now so if im not making much sense please forgive me :)03:36
srichterno, makes all sense03:37
srichterI am getting tired though :-)03:37
__odieno worries03:37
__odiei need to get back to reading your book actually heh :)03:37
srichtertime to get and vege in front of the TV ;-)03:37
srichterdo that! :-)03:37
__odiethe hardcopy to, none of that internet stuff03:37
__odieI finished philkons book which I considered to be introductory, and am trying to pick up the more advanced stuff from your book :)03:38
__odieanyways, have a good evening :)03:38
srichteryou too03:40
srichterlet me know, if you have questions03:40
__odieim sure I wil03:50
__odieive been hanging around to just understand what the issues are :)03:51
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__odiethe world cookery book said vocabnularies are going away? what are they going to be replaced with and is it avaliable in trunk?06:05
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srichterhdima: you are my hero! Just saw your checkin! Cool! :-)13:30
hdimathe TAL changes needs to be cleaned up. I'll do it later. :-)13:32
hdimaIt has been a hard time to find and fix all those PT's... %-)13:34
srichterI can imagine!13:36
hdimaAfter 3.1 release I want to do some big refactorings for the code.13:39
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hdimaBTW, I've change POT's dynamic content marker from XXX to ${DYNAMIC_CONTENT}, so somebody can't start to remove all those i18n:translate="". ;-)13:51
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srichterok, cool13:58
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stubDoes Z3 have Schema level validation, as opposed to Field level, yet? I have a field whose valid values depend on what a different field's value is.16:05
srichteryes, Jim mentioned the other day that there is an API for this16:06
srichterread README.txt in zope.schema16:06
projekt01stub, search for invariants16:07
VladDracprojekt: did you do any improvement on the boston skin lately?16:09
srichterthat was the term, right :-)16:09
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BjornTstub: README.txt in zope.interface is the place to read about invariants16:09
srichteroops, thanks for the correction16:10
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stubDoes the form machinery cope with invariants or will I need to implement that?16:12
BjornTstub: you will have to implement it16:13
srichterbtw, since everyone seems to ignore my E-mails, are you guys okay with removing the FTP-related bugs from the 3.1 TODO lsit?16:15
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* stub wonders if it is possible to use invarients for his purpose, given that the end result should be an error message next to the widget with the dud value and not some sort of form global error16:17
BjornTstub: i'd say it's possible, but not easy. you're probably better off creating a new widget instead16:19
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stubBjornT: Mmm... definitely leaning that way. Pity the callables used in the constraint parameter don't have any sort of context.16:20
alga_srichter: I don't think anyone is using FTP :-)16:20
BjornTyeah i know, so you have to find some way of association an invariant with some fields, so something like that16:21
srichteralga_: we get bug reports, so some must use it :-)16:21
srichteralga_: also, we supported it in 3.0, so we have to in 3.1, though I think the bugs reported are not show-stoppers anyways16:21
BjornTsrichter: have you asked the one who reported the bugs?16:21
stubIf the exception thrown by the invarient contained a reference to the field the error should be associated with (defaulting to None), then the display code would have all the information it needed16:22
srichterBjornT: 2 from Steve, but I know they are only critical for laqrge data amounts and one from Anonymous :-)16:22
stubI think... if you can get from the field to the widget16:22
* stub tries to remember how it all fits together16:22
srichterOkay, so here the decision: I will mark all three bugs as "WontFix" in light of the move to Twisted16:22
BjornTsrichter: i didn't ask who reported them, i asked, if you asked him what he thinks about the importance of the bugs :)16:23
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srichterSteveA|afk: what do you think about the FTP bugs you found? Critical for you in 3.1? :-)16:24
BjornTstub: you might be on the right track there. if we require the invariants to throw some IInvariantError exception which has to contain some useful information16:25
projekt01VladDrac, no I didn't changed something related to the Boston skin16:25
stubThey are subclasses of zope.interface.Invalid, so we can stick it in there.16:26
anguenotHi there16:26
anguenotI fixed
anguenotBut work needs to be done on a proper FileWidget16:27
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projekt01stub, srichter, I think invariants get checked in the new form concept form ZC where we will get for 3.2? Right?16:29
srichterSteveA: got my message above? :-)16:29
srichterprojekt01: not sure, ask Gary16:29
srichteranguenot: I think Roger did some work on a branch that never got approved by Jim16:30
srichteranguenot: if you could confirm this work, it should certainly be merged before 3.116:31
projekt01stub, srichter, I think it depends on how much work they have. I really like to see this new form framework.16:31
anguenotsrichter:Ok I can give a try with Roger's branch16:31
srichterprojekt01: I'll chat with Gary when he will be online in a while16:32
projekt01anguenot, what do you need to know about the IFile refactoring where never get finished?16:32
projekt01srichter, Ok, I remember that16:32
anguenotJust fixed the bug and saw the File type was pretty primitive16:33
projekt01anguenot, the branch (or my work) is a big mess, but all new ideas are there.16:33
projekt01anguenot, you mean the IFile schema field16:33
projekt01The IFile schema field is broken in the z3 trunk since the beginning, because of it's type16:34
anguenotit's type ?16:35
projekt01Yes, the Ifile field is, I guess, bytes and we store for large file a FileChunk instance, this ins't valid16:36
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anguenotI can check the branch if people think it might be a good idea to target this for 3.116:37
projekt01I did too much in this branch, I moved the image part out of I think it's better to start a new branch and move things where needed.16:39
projekt01Or you have to move the image part back to the package16:39
projekt01Btw. It's not clear to me how we can provide BBB with such changes like we do in the IFile branch right now.16:40
projekt01anguenot, I would be really happy if you can take a look at the branch and improve it16:45
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projekt01I can help you with the widget and session part where is responsible for to set the content_type on the fileupload16:46
anguenotwe'll continue the discussion on the mailing list16:49
anguenotI'll check this by the end of the week.16:50
projekt01anguenot, Ok16:50
anguenotprojekt01:BTW, did you check the
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projekt01No, not yet, but you are really sure it is fixed?16:51
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anguenotCheck my comment on the bug entry16:53
projekt01I think the problem was if we remove the utility via the "Tools" management view.16:53
anguenotThe bug entry wasn't saying this16:53
anguenotif you could verfify It would be cool16:54
lunatikhi anguenot :)16:54
srichterI think the tools stuff is a bit broken16:54
projekt01Ok, I check this.16:54
srichterit was not that easy to implement anymore with the new backend and ideas :-)16:54
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SteveAsrichter: not really.  worked around by subclassing.16:58
SteveAthe project which used the ftp server is complete.  unless problems arise, i won't be doing any more work on it, except when we update the zope3 snapshot we're using.16:59
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projekt01anguenot, Yes, the utility get correct remove now. The bug 380 seems to be fixed.17:17
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anguenotactually, it wasn't a bug17:24
anguenotjust the exception message was wrong17:24
anguenotbecause you can't remove a utility if this one is in an active state17:24
anguenotthis subscriber is taking care of it zope/app/container/ AFAIK17:25
projekt01Yes, I know that, this is correct, but I think my sample described in the issue 380 is just a simplification for to show the bug.17:29
projekt01And now I think this is solved, but there is another bug which has to do with the Tools management view.17:29
anguenotcollector issue ?17:29
projekt01But I can't remember how I did.17:29
projekt01Could be that this is also gone with your changes.17:30
projekt01I check this later and try to find the code where I marked I my workspace.17:30
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projekt01anguenot, It's all Ok now, the real bug was fixed by Garrett in version 30040, Line 329 in
projekt01He added: container[name].status = InactiveStatus17:42
projekt01Which wasn't done before and ends in a activated utility in the registry which was deleted from the registration manager17:43
projekt01That was the reason why you just found a wrong error message.17:44
projekt01But thanks a lot for fixing this anyway.17:45
projekt01I think it was my mistake. I marked the bug a security related, perhaps this was the reason why Garrett didn't found the issue 38017:46
projekt01Now, I now what this flag means ;-)17:47
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__odieI had dreams about python interfaces all night ... I'm working too hard :)17:59
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J1mhazmat, ayt?18:07
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dagnachewName lookup failure for "": Host name lookup failed18:55
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ignashow does one convert a string "foo %s" % chr(163) to UTF-8 ?19:34
srichtertry (u"foo %s %chr(163)).encode('utf-8')19:41
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ignassrichter, i found it out in  #python channel19:44
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ignason should first one has to decode it firs19:47
ignasby supplying the charset it is in19:47
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srichterJ1m: are you there?22:52
srichterDid you see my mail the other day about a zcml:condition verb that checks for an existing Python module?22:53
J1myes no23:03
J1msrichter, what was the subject?23:04
J1mWanna forward it to me again?23:04
srichterwell basically we need a new zcml:condition verb for checking for installed python packages23:08
srichterI'll forward the mail to you23:09
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srichterJ1m: got it?23:17
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Steveasrichter: have you seen the packaging work that was done at pycon?23:50
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