| nederhoed | what are you using Z3 for, if I may ask? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| __odie | blasphemy ... I have about, $20,000 worth of sound equipment sitting next to me :) | 00:00 |
| __odie | Well, I am about to begin two web applications ... and Id like to use Zope ... I think one ive determined zope is completely unsuitable for, the other, I think it will work | 00:01 |
| nederhoed | content publication? portal? ...? | 00:02 |
| nederhoed | webshop? | 00:02 |
| __odie | the one i think I will *not* write in zope is an application for the construction industry which assists in the bidding process | 00:02 |
| __odie | the one I will is an application for a local computer company which will store information about their clients :) | 00:03 |
| nederhoed | ah nice projects | 00:04 |
| __odie | the construction one has been implemented twice in PHP already and screwed up both times (by other programmers) :) | 00:05 |
| nederhoed | I think I have a suggestion on Z3 documentation | 00:06 |
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| VladDrac | nederhoed so what are your plans with z3? | 00:07 |
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| __odie | I was wondering that myself | 00:07 |
| nederhoed | if I search for terms via google I useally get many links to SVN pages (zope3-checkins) | 00:07 |
| nederhoed | which are usually not very helpful | 00:08 |
| nederhoed | could something like php.net has for functions be built for z3? | 00:08 |
| VladDrac | php is a programming language, zope3 is a framework | 00:08 |
| VladDrac | which makes things different/more complex | 00:09 |
| VladDrac | (but if you need a python reference: Python.org :) | 00:09 |
| nederhoed | VladDrac: I'm making a simple catalog for mobile homes, only presentation, no shopping cart | 00:09 |
| nederhoed | but that it to get on the road | 00:10 |
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| nederhoed | personally I have some ideas for online education, DIY education so to say | 00:10 |
| nederhoed | with an intelligent agent on my server | 00:11 |
| nederhoed | courses and students need to be managed through the web, using z3 | 00:11 |
| __odie | nederhoed: there are many packages for stuff like that already | 00:13 |
| __odie | although frankly they suck :) | 00:13 |
| __odie | the biggest one is called blackboard IIRC (I worked at a university for 3 years) | 00:14 |
| nederhoed | aha | 00:15 |
| __odie | they make a HELL of a lot of money with that software | 00:16 |
| __odie | the problem wouldn't be writing something better, but actually selling it :) | 00:16 |
| __odie | or if its open source, getting people to use it :) | 00:16 |
| nederhoed | I have heard of BlackBoard, but that's not Zope is it? | 00:17 |
| srichter | yeah, blackboard stinks | 00:17 |
| srichter | I have to use it | 00:17 |
| srichter | I always wanted to write a competitor | 00:17 |
| __odie | no, I dont know what its written in, probably PHP or ASP | 00:18 |
| srichter | nederhoed: if you need a testing module, you might want to look at zQuest | 00:18 |
| srichter | it is old and used my DBObject code, but there is a lot of cool logic there | 00:18 |
| srichter | like LaTeX methods, an easy to use graphics programming package, etc | 00:18 |
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| srichter | BlackBoard is ASP | 00:19 |
| nederhoed | ok | 00:19 |
| nederhoed | my courses will be dialogs written as a FSA (finite state automaton) | 00:20 |
| nederhoed | I have found zQuest | 00:22 |
| __odie | FSA kind of sounds like the workflow object | 00:28 |
| nederhoed | I'm not familiar enough with Zope yet | 00:30 |
| nederhoed | I will investigate the similarities! | 00:30 |
| nederhoed | stephan, why did you stop developing zQuest? | 00:33 |
| srichter | because I did not have time in grad school anymore and I was working on Zope 3 | 00:36 |
| srichter | it was my final project for Physics in undergrad | 00:37 |
| nederhoed | aha | 00:37 |
| srichter | it was very advanced in that you could choose variables and put them into animated graphs and so on | 00:37 |
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| nederhoed | I will postpone playing with it until I have finished my current z3 experiment | 00:38 |
| srichter | when evaluating an answer slight computation discrepancies were taken into account too | 00:38 |
| nederhoed | sounds advanced | 00:38 |
| nederhoed | and was your prof satisfied? | 00:39 |
| __odie | professors are never satified heh | 00:39 |
| nederhoed | *<:-) | 00:40 |
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| J1m | does anyone remember how to turn on tal debugging? | 00:49 |
| nederhoed | no, sorry | 00:53 |
| __odie | its news to me that it can do that :) | 00:53 |
| nederhoed | I am really having some results now, with my own content object | 00:53 |
| nederhoed | let's go skinning! | 00:54 |
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| nederhoed | well, let's go to bed and have some sleep first. Bye! | 00:56 |
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| SteveA | J1m: in debug mode, ++debug++source enables source annotations | 01:02 |
| SteveA | ++debug++tal enables TAL markup in output | 01:02 |
| J1m | Yup, thanks | 01:03 |
| SteveA | ++debug++errors enables tracebacks (by switching to debug skin) | 01:03 |
| J1m | I figured it out | 01:03 |
| SteveA | cool | 01:03 |
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| SteveA | i can never remember it exactly, but i do remember where to look | 01:03 |
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| roym` | /wi | 03:54 |
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| stub | Currently, ZopeDatabaseAdapters are Persistent, and store their connection in a _v_ attribute. This works fine if your ZopeDatabaseAdapter is stored persistantly, but fails if your ZopeDatabaseAdapter is a providedUtility such as created with the rdb:provideConnection directive as it means all Zope3 threads share the same physical connection and could cause dataloss and corruption. I think the required fix is to not store the connection in a | 07:10 |
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| SteveA | stub: that ended for me with " I think the required fix is to not store the connection in a" | 08:54 |
| stub | Currently, ZopeDatabaseAdapters are Persistent, and store their connection in a _v_ attribute. | 09:01 |
| stub | This works fine if your ZopeDatabaseAdapter is stored persistantly, but fails if your ZopeDatabaseAdapter is a providedUtility such as created with the rdb:provideConnection | 09:01 |
| stub | directive as it means all Zope3 threads share the same physical connection and could cause dataloss and corruption. | 09:01 |
| stub | I think the required fix is to not store the connection in a _v_ attribute, instead storing it in a thread local. | 09:02 |
| SteveA | that will work, provided zope is being used in the one-transaction-per-thread way | 09:03 |
| SteveA | which covers most cases | 09:03 |
| SteveA | another way to look at it is that the application uses connections | 09:05 |
| SteveA | it asks for a connection, and keeps it until it is done with it | 09:05 |
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| bob2 | hm, so zope.app.workflow.interfaces isn't in the zope3 tarball | 15:33 |
| srichter | of course | 15:41 |
| srichter | it was never part of the core | 15:42 |
| srichter | there is an add-on package available on zope.org though | 15:42 |
| srichter | http://www.zope.org/Products/Zope3-Packages | 15:43 |
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| SteveA | srichter: do you know about the problem with ZopeDatabaseAdapter ? | 15:54 |
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| srichter | no | 15:55 |
| srichter | what problem? | 15:55 |
| SteveA | it probably works properly as a persistent utility | 15:56 |
| SteveA | but when database connections are configured from zcml, there's a threading problem | 15:56 |
| srichter | oh, I saw Stuart making a fix there yesterday | 15:56 |
| SteveA | right | 15:56 |
| srichter | I think we never had designed ZDA's as global utilities | 15:56 |
| SteveA | there's a zcml directive to register them | 15:57 |
| srichter | though I remember someone reporting they got it to work, so I thought; ok | 15:57 |
| srichter | mmh true | 15:57 |
| srichter | anyways, can the bug be fixed before the beta? | 15:57 |
| SteveA | and, local utilities are bogus anyway ;-) | 15:57 |
| SteveA | yeah | 15:57 |
| SteveA | we need it for launchpad | 15:57 |
| SteveA | so, if he hasn't finished fixing it already, stu will be fixing it very soon. | 15:58 |
| srichter | ok | 15:58 |
| SteveA | just wanted you, as release mgr, to know about it | 15:58 |
| srichter | I am not sure if I can make the beta this weekend, since family is coming, but I will definitely do the beta next week, so if it could be in by then, this would be great | 15:58 |
| SteveA | users of sqlos should know about it in general | 15:58 |
| srichter | yeah, thanks | 15:58 |
| efge | I have a question about zope.app.catalog. It seems to assume (in updateIndex) that every object registered with the intid utility potentially is of interest to its indexes. Couldn't that be a problem, if you also use the intid for other objects ? | 16:02 |
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| srichter | efge: you would probably have different intid utilities for different purposes, no? | 16:03 |
| efge | srichter: but the catalog just does zapi.getUtility(IIntIds) so how can it know to not use "mine" ? | 16:04 |
| efge | but I see your point | 16:05 |
| srichter | yeah, you are right | 16:07 |
| srichter | this seems bad | 16:07 |
| srichter | so intid is intended to be used as an unnamed utility | 16:07 |
| srichter | darn | 16:07 |
| srichter | I think you are right then; the assumption in updateIndex is a bad one | 16:08 |
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| efge | catalog could simply ask its indexes to update themselves | 16:14 |
| efge | OTOH you could want a feature that reindexes using all the objects of a given intid utility, but I'd see that as a different feature | 16:14 |
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| stub | I've fixed the database adapter on the trunk. I don't know what other branches it should be merge too (and if anyone wants to do it for me, great since I've forgotten all my SVN foo ;) ) | 16:27 |
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| srichter | stub: I think you only need to take care of the 3.0 branch | 16:31 |
| bob2 | srichter: ah, thanks a lot | 16:32 |
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| stub | So how do I merge patch 30682 from the trunk to the ZopeX3-3.0 branch? | 16:47 |
| srichter | svn merge -r 30681:30628 ...trunk . | 16:48 |
| srichter | from a checkout of the branch | 16:48 |
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