IRC log of #zope3-dev for Wednesday, 2005-06-08

nederhoedwhat are you using Z3 for, if I may ask?00:00
__odieblasphemy ... I have about, $20,000 worth of sound equipment sitting next to me :)00:00
__odieWell, I am about to begin two web applications ... and Id like to use Zope ... I think one ive determined zope is completely unsuitable for, the other, I think it will work00:01
nederhoedcontent publication? portal? ...?00:02
__odiethe one i think I will *not* write in zope is an application for the construction industry which assists in the bidding process00:02
__odiethe one I will is an application for a local computer company which will store information about their clients :)00:03
nederhoedah nice projects00:04
__odiethe construction one has been implemented twice in PHP already and screwed up both times (by other programmers) :)00:05
nederhoedI think I have a suggestion on Z3 documentation00:06
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VladDracnederhoed so what are your plans with z3?00:07
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__odieI was wondering that myself00:07
nederhoedif I search for terms via google I useally get many links to SVN pages (zope3-checkins)00:07
nederhoedwhich are usually not very helpful00:08
nederhoedcould something like has for functions be built for z3?00:08
VladDracphp is a programming language, zope3 is a framework00:08
VladDracwhich makes things different/more complex00:09
VladDrac(but if you need a python reference: :)00:09
nederhoedVladDrac: I'm making a simple catalog for mobile homes, only presentation, no shopping cart00:09
nederhoedbut that it to get on the road00:10
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nederhoedpersonally I have some ideas for online education, DIY education so to say00:10
nederhoedwith an intelligent agent on my server00:11
nederhoedcourses and students need to be managed through the web, using z300:11
__odienederhoed: there are many packages for stuff like that already00:13
__odiealthough frankly they suck :)00:13
__odiethe biggest one is called blackboard IIRC (I worked at a university for 3 years)00:14
__odiethey make a HELL of a lot of money with that software00:16
__odiethe problem wouldn't be writing something better, but actually selling it :)00:16
__odieor if its open source, getting people to use it :)00:16
nederhoedI have heard of BlackBoard, but that's not Zope is it?00:17
srichteryeah, blackboard stinks00:17
srichterI have to use it00:17
srichterI always wanted to write a competitor00:17
__odieno, I dont know what its written in, probably PHP or ASP00:18
srichternederhoed: if you need a testing module, you might want to look at zQuest00:18
srichterit is old and used my DBObject code, but there is a lot of cool logic there00:18
srichterlike LaTeX methods, an easy to use graphics programming package, etc00:18
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srichterBlackBoard is ASP00:19
nederhoedmy courses will be dialogs written as a FSA (finite state automaton)00:20
nederhoedI have found zQuest00:22
__odieFSA kind of sounds like the workflow object00:28
nederhoedI'm not familiar enough with Zope yet00:30
nederhoedI will investigate the similarities!00:30
nederhoedstephan, why did you stop developing zQuest?00:33
srichterbecause I did not have time in grad school anymore and I was working on Zope 300:36
srichterit was my final project for Physics in undergrad00:37
srichterit was very advanced in that you could choose variables and put them into animated graphs and so on00:37
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nederhoedI will postpone playing with it until I have finished my current z3 experiment00:38
srichterwhen evaluating an answer slight computation discrepancies were taken into account too00:38
nederhoedsounds advanced00:38
nederhoedand was your prof satisfied?00:39
__odieprofessors are never satified heh00:39
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J1mdoes anyone remember how to turn on tal debugging?00:49
nederhoedno, sorry00:53
__odieits news to me that it can do that :)00:53
nederhoedI am really having some results now, with my own content object00:53
nederhoedlet's go skinning!00:54
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nederhoedwell, let's go to bed and have some sleep first. Bye!00:56
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SteveAJ1m:    in debug mode, ++debug++source enables source annotations01:02
SteveA ++debug++tal enables TAL markup in output01:02
J1mYup, thanks01:03
SteveA++debug++errors enables tracebacks (by switching to debug skin)01:03
J1mI figured it out01:03
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SteveAi can never remember it exactly, but i do remember where to look01:03
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roym` /wi03:54
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stubCurrently, ZopeDatabaseAdapters are Persistent, and store their connection in a _v_ attribute. This works fine if your ZopeDatabaseAdapter is stored persistantly, but fails if your ZopeDatabaseAdapter is a providedUtility such as created with the rdb:provideConnection directive as it means all Zope3 threads share the same physical connection and could cause dataloss and corruption. I think the required fix is to not store the connection in a07:10
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SteveAstub: that ended for me with  " I think the required fix is to not store the connection in a"08:54
stubCurrently, ZopeDatabaseAdapters are Persistent, and store their connection in a _v_ attribute.09:01
stubThis works fine if your ZopeDatabaseAdapter is stored persistantly, but fails if your ZopeDatabaseAdapter is a providedUtility such as created with the rdb:provideConnection09:01
stubdirective as it means all Zope3 threads share the same physical connection and could cause dataloss and corruption.09:01
stubI think the required fix is to not store the connection in a _v_ attribute, instead storing it in a thread local.09:02
SteveAthat will work, provided zope is being used in the one-transaction-per-thread way09:03
SteveAwhich covers most cases09:03
SteveAanother way to look at it is that the application uses connections09:05
SteveAit asks for a connection, and keeps it until it is done with it09:05
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bob2hm, so isn't in the zope3 tarball15:33
srichterof course15:41
srichterit was never part of the core15:42
srichterthere is an add-on package available on though15:42
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SteveAsrichter: do you know about the problem with ZopeDatabaseAdapter ?15:54
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srichterwhat problem?15:55
SteveAit probably works properly as a persistent utility15:56
SteveAbut when database connections are configured from zcml, there's a threading problem15:56
srichteroh, I saw Stuart making a fix there yesterday15:56
srichterI think we never had designed ZDA's as global utilities15:56
SteveAthere's a zcml directive to register them15:57
srichterthough I remember someone reporting they got it to work, so I thought; ok15:57
srichtermmh true15:57
srichteranyways, can the bug be fixed before the beta?15:57
SteveAand, local utilities are bogus anyway ;-)15:57
SteveAwe need it for launchpad15:57
SteveAso, if he hasn't finished fixing it already, stu will be fixing it very soon.15:58
SteveAjust wanted you, as release mgr, to know about it15:58
srichterI am not sure if I can make the beta this weekend, since family is coming, but I will definitely do the beta next week, so if it could be in by then, this would be great15:58
SteveAusers of sqlos should know about it in general15:58
srichteryeah, thanks15:58
efgeI have a question about It seems to assume (in updateIndex) that every object registered with the intid utility potentially is of interest to its indexes. Couldn't that be a problem, if you also use the intid for other objects ?16:02
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srichterefge: you would probably have different intid utilities for different purposes, no?16:03
efgesrichter: but the catalog just does zapi.getUtility(IIntIds) so how can it know to not use "mine" ?16:04
efgebut I see your point16:05
srichteryeah, you are right16:07
srichterthis seems bad16:07
srichterso intid is intended to be used as an unnamed utility16:07
srichterI think you are right then; the assumption in updateIndex is a bad one16:08
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efgecatalog could simply ask its indexes to update themselves16:14
efgeOTOH you could want a feature that reindexes using all the objects of a given intid utility, but I'd see that as a different feature16:14
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stubI've fixed the database adapter on the trunk. I don't know what other branches it should be merge too (and if anyone wants to do it for me, great since I've forgotten all my SVN foo ;) )16:27
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srichterstub: I think you only need to take care of the 3.0 branch16:31
bob2srichter: ah, thanks a lot16:32
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stubSo how do I merge patch 30682 from the trunk to the ZopeX3-3.0 branch?16:47
srichtersvn merge -r 30681:30628 ...trunk .16:48
srichterfrom a checkout of the branch16:48
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