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| nederhoed | test | 00:09 |
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| __odie | Architectural question: in z3, how do you save session variables/objects? | 00:53 |
| srichter | I think there is a session package | 00:54 |
| srichter | zope.app.session | 00:54 |
| __odie | aye! | 00:54 |
| __odie | thanks :) | 00:54 |
| srichter | np | 00:55 |
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| __odie | hmmm not in the 3.0 distribution | 00:56 |
| srichter | nope | 00:56 |
| srichter | we decided not to distribute it back then | 00:57 |
| srichter | it is in the trunk though | 00:57 |
| __odie | :) thanks | 00:57 |
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| J1m_ | projekt01, do you and Dominik want to chat about the transient location issue? | 13:53 |
| projekt01 | Ok, do you have time? | 13:54 |
| J1m_ | At the moment I do | 13:54 |
| projekt01 | I can't reach Dominik by phone, he isn't at home yet. But perhaps I can try to answer your question. | 13:55 |
| J1m_ | I don't have a question. | 13:56 |
| J1m_ | I wanted to answer any questions you 2 had | 13:56 |
| J1m_ | I'll just send some email | 13:56 |
| projekt01 | I see, I try to reach him later. Because I'm not fimilar with the problem right now. | 13:56 |
| projekt01 | Are you arround later? | 13:57 |
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| J1m_ | yes | 14:00 |
| projekt01 | Ok thanks, I come back to you if I reach Dominik. | 14:01 |
| J1m_ | I'm composing an email summarizing what I think needs to be done. | 14:03 |
| projekt01 | Jim, this would be great. Should we move the package later to the z3 trunk if it's working? | 14:03 |
| projekt01 | I mean our local file access utility and reference package based on this changes. | 14:05 |
| J1m_ | I don't really care. | 14:07 |
| J1m_ | My main interest is in: | 14:07 |
| J1m_ | - gettong rid of ITransientLocation | 14:07 |
| J1m_ | - Fixing the bug in the IKeyReference framework | 14:08 |
| projekt01 | Ok, I see. I hope I can reach Dominik today. Otherwise I deep into the packages and can solve it tomorrow if Dominik don't have time. | 14:12 |
| projekt01 | But first I have to solve the 161 functional test errors in zope\app. | 14:13 |
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| J1m_ | Huh? | 14:13 |
| projekt01 | This happens only if we add our tiks package to the src. | 14:14 |
| J1m_ | ah | 14:14 |
| projekt01 | But the tests break in zope\app. Perhaps it has something to do with zcml registration and testing or setup | 14:14 |
| J1m_ | does tiks override anything? | 14:14 |
| projekt01 | No | 14:15 |
| J1m_ | hm | 14:15 |
| projekt01 | But perhaps a missing tear down? | 14:15 |
| projekt01 | Or the apidoc zcml parsing part? | 14:16 |
| projekt01 | Or something in tiks ;-( | 14:16 |
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| projekt01 | Does anybody else have a failing test in: src\zope\app\publication\methodnotallowed.txt ? | 14:37 |
| hdima | All tests passed for me | 14:38 |
| projekt01 | hdima, Ok, thanks | 14:42 |
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| MacYET | morning | 15:22 |
| regebro | afternoon | 15:22 |
| MacYET | does anyone know of the status of webservices in Z3? | 15:23 |
| srichter | there is none | 15:23 |
| MacYET | perfect :-) | 15:24 |
| srichter | noone has worked on SOAP support yet | 15:24 |
| MacYET | that's what i wantedto hear | 15:24 |
| srichter | why? | 15:24 |
| projekt01 | MacYET, srichter, what's about the package at "repos/main/soap" | 15:25 |
| MacYET | i think soap is only one part of the game | 15:26 |
| srichter | projekt01: I can't remember this being something substantial | 15:27 |
| srichter | MacYET: what else do you need? | 15:27 |
| projekt01 | Do you think about standards like ebXML? | 15:27 |
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| srichter | oh, yeah, fred was working on soap recently | 15:28 |
| srichter | right | 15:28 |
| MacYET | srichter: just investigating :) | 15:29 |
| MacYET | i think wdsl is another part of the game | 15:29 |
| srichter | MacYET: I am just reading through the README.txt of the soap package | 15:29 |
| srichter | it might be a good place to start | 15:29 |
| * MacYET is just doing highlevel investigations | 15:30 | |
| projekt01 | MacYET, let me know if you do something in this direction. I'm very interested to work on this too. | 15:31 |
| bskahan | MacYET: take a look at the REST support in schoolbell | 15:32 |
| projekt01 | srichter, I found the functional test which mess up my zope\app tests. It's zope.app.apidoc.ifacemodule.ftests.py | 15:32 |
| projekt01 | Can you give me some hint what's going on and what do my packages have to support? | 15:33 |
| srichter | I'll chat with you personally | 15:35 |
| MacYET | tnx | 15:39 |
| regebro | Hiya! Anybody know what parts of Zope3 that might use docutils? | 15:40 |
| regebro | Because it clashes with Zope2s when we try to use it...and they are not compatible... | 15:42 |
| hdima | 'zope.app.renderer.rest' I guess | 15:44 |
| srichter | yeah and therefore all of API doc | 15:47 |
| regebro | Well, the API doc isn't used from Five anyway so we can live with that, if that doesn't work. | 15:48 |
| srichter | regebro: which version is newer? We are definitely willed to put the latest version into the code | 15:48 |
| srichter | it would be really cool if Five would integrate API doc into Zope 2's online help system | 15:49 |
| regebro | Well the Zope3 version is too old anyway, so hopefully it should work if we get rid of that one. | 15:49 |
| regebro | It just makes me nervous. :) | 15:49 |
| regebro | srichter: Hmmm. Interesting idea. | 15:49 |
| srichter | well, we can update to the latest one, if you like | 15:49 |
| regebro | well, for 3.1 that would probably be a good idea. | 15:52 |
| regebro | OK, I checked, and in 3.0.0, docutils 0.3.0 is used. Zope 2.7 uses 0.3.7. | 15:53 |
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| regebro | Switching the 3.0.0 one out for 0.3.7 seems to work, although I haven't run any unit tests, so I don't know if anything is actually usingit. ;) | 15:54 |
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| roym` | I'm using the following modules: erc-track-mode, erc-ring-mode, erc-pcomplete-mode, erc-netsplit-mode, erc-message-english-flood-strict-mode, erc-fill-mode, erc-button-mode, erc-autojoin-mode! | 16:01 |
| srichter | roym: What are you talking about? | 16:02 |
| roym` | sorry - I inadvertently typed "/sm" into the channel - its spits out a verbose listing of modes. | 16:02 |
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| __odie | conceptual question: can principals be used *like* sessions? to encapsulate persistant data? zope.app.session hints at this, but I dont see it by reading the security interface | 22:18 |
| nederhoed | suppose I want to build a logic tree with Images that reside in some other folder, how can I reuse (reference) these existing images? | 22:18 |
| philiKON | __odie, well, you can annotate persistent data with a principal (e.g. preferences, personal info, etc.) using the principal annotation utility | 22:19 |
| philiKON | __odie, session data is usually somewhat volatile | 22:19 |
| __odie | philiKON: fair enough, my problem is I dont see any way to have objects live throught a session? :) | 22:20 |
| __odie | i probably have missed something... | 22:20 |
| philiKON | well, that's the point of sessions, right? | 22:21 |
| philiKON | that they hold data over several requests | 22:21 |
| __odie | exactly! so how is this accomplished in zope3 ? :) | 22:21 |
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| philiKON | __odie, with zope.app.session :) | 22:22 |
| __odie | is that the appropriate way to handle sessions even when you are using principals? | 22:24 |
| philiKON | "using principals" sounds a bit awkward | 22:24 |
| nederhoed | philipp, can you answer my question too? | 22:25 |
| philiKON | in zope you're always using principals | 22:25 |
| philiKON | principals are the generalized users | 22:25 |
| philiKON | nederhoed, i don't understand your question :( | 22:25 |
| __odie | nederhoed: nor did I understand your question :) | 22:25 |
| nederhoed | :) I have 1 big folder with Images and I want to categorize these using Folders, with the possibility of the same image ending up in multiple Folders | 22:26 |
| nederhoed | can this be done | 22:26 |
| nederhoed | ? | 22:26 |
| __odie | nederhoed: symlink? :) | 22:27 |
| nederhoed | yes, or in object terms a reference | 22:27 |
| nederhoed | I cannot set the parent twice | 22:27 |
| nederhoed | :) | 22:27 |
| philiKON | right | 22:28 |
| philiKON | so, the categories can be folderish objects (or, containerish objects), but they can't be the __parent__ of the images | 22:28 |
| philiKON | other than that, nothing should prevent you from storing direct references in some other objects | 22:29 |
| nederhoed | yes, because if I would set the parent, it would be moved (i assume) | 22:29 |
| philiKON | yes | 22:29 |
| philiKON | but to move, one should use zope.app.copypastemove | 22:29 |
| nederhoed | and how can I convert your direct referencing into Zope3? is it common practice? | 22:30 |
| philiKON | well, category[key] = your_image | 22:31 |
| philiKON | where category is your category container | 22:31 |
| philiKON | could be a simple BTreeContainer | 22:31 |
| nederhoed | ah ok, quite intuitive | 22:31 |
| philiKON | just be careful not to assume any parent relationships there | 22:31 |
| philiKON | if you use this purely for categorizing, this should work | 22:31 |
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| nederhoed | think of sellable Products I want to be show up in several places | 22:32 |
| philiKON | views that walk up the parent path, like @@absolute_url, will still find the old location, of course | 22:32 |
| philiKON | yup | 22:32 |
| nederhoed | thanks, I will take the documentation and figure it out | 22:32 |
| __odie | documentation? you have documentation? :) | 22:33 |
| nederhoed | __odie, http://localhost:8080/++apidoc++ | 22:33 |
| __odie | nederhoed: im aware of the api documentation ... but it is, shall we say, insufficent? :) | 22:34 |
| nederhoed | yup | 22:34 |
| nederhoed | I do end up browsing app sources now and then :) | 22:34 |
| __odie | z3 is suffering from a reliance on the autoamted documentation. Its not "real" documentation, it shows you pieces of a puzzle are avaliable, but not how they fit together | 22:35 |
| __odie | nederhoed: I do as well, but you cant get "the big picture" from browsing the source... thats where i am currently suffering :) | 22:35 |
| nederhoed | I recognize that situation. | 22:36 |
| nederhoed | I'm planning on adding small howto's to my weblog | 22:36 |
| nederhoed | (some day soon) | 22:36 |
| philiKON | __odie, what can we do to solve that problem? | 22:36 |
| nederhoed | Zope3 Cookbook | 22:36 |
| nederhoed | :) | 22:36 |
| __odie | philiKON: well, your book (which I have 2 copies of:-) was a damn good start, but theres lots of holes in it. | 22:36 |
| philiKON | wow, 2 copies :) | 22:36 |
| nederhoed | phone | 22:37 |
| __odie | one of my developer friends stole my first one :) | 22:37 |
| philiKON | __odie, tell me about the holes: philikon@philikon.de | 22:37 |
| __odie | fair enough, I will write you a treatise on holes :) | 22:37 |
| philiKON | i'd appreciate it | 22:37 |
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| philiKON | i want to improve it | 22:37 |
| __odie | that being said, I think on what your book covered its one of the best technical books ive ever read | 22:38 |
| philiKON | well thank you | 22:38 |
| __odie | i just had a lot of unanswered questions :) | 22:38 |
| philiKON | i understand | 22:38 |
| __odie | and I think partially that has to do with z3 simply not being ready for production yet | 22:38 |
| philiKON | at least of a lot of applications that we run in production | 22:39 |
| philiKON | 3.1 will be a vast improvement | 22:39 |
| __odie | 3.0 was very barebones :) | 22:40 |
| philiKON | agreed | 22:40 |
| philiKON | but it was out there | 22:40 |
| philiKON | and that was overdue | 22:40 |
| __odie | The house was built, but the plumbing wasn't installed | 22:40 |
| J1m | There were people building production apps with it | 22:40 |
| J1m | It all depends on what you need | 22:41 |
| philiKON | that, and you have to build the house first before installing the plumbing :) | 22:41 |
| philiKON | some people did their own plumbing, some didn't need all of the plumbing other systems have | 22:41 |
| __odie | yea I understand that... | 22:42 |
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| __odie | but for me at least, it makes it difficult to grasp some concepts when others are missing... if that makes any sense? | 22:43 |
| philiKON | it would if ti were a little more concrete :) | 22:44 |
| __odie | yea :) | 22:45 |
| __odie | I'll send you that email in a day or two when Ive had time to consider it sufficently | 22:46 |
| philiKON | good | 22:46 |
| __odie | and when the second copy of your book arrives (damn postal service) heh | 22:47 |
| philiKON | ;) | 22:47 |
| philiKON | how did you order it? amazon? | 22:47 |
| __odie | I ordered the first one through amazon | 22:47 |
| __odie | and the second one two actually | 22:48 |
| __odie | now that I think about it | 22:48 |
| philiKON | k. just wondering | 22:49 |
| __odie | no worries :) | 22:50 |
| __odie | the first one came in 6 days (pretty reasonable for coming all the way from germany) | 22:50 |
| __odie | this one, taking a bit longer :) | 22:50 |
| philiKON | __odie, where are you? | 22:51 |
| roym2 | I am confused about what seems like redundancy in the following | 22:52 |
| roym2 | declarations (from the bugtracker); ie: both the adaptor and the class | 22:52 |
| roym2 | declaration seem to indicate the same thing - that the BugDependencyAdapter class | 22:52 |
| roym2 | implements IBugDependencies for IBug. Can I get away with not specifying | 22:52 |
| roym2 | one or the other? | 22:52 |
| roym2 | 22:52 | |
| roym2 | | <adapter | 22:52 |
| roym2 | | factory=".bug.BugDependencyAdapter" | 22:52 |
| roym2 | | provides=".interfaces.IBugDependencies" | 22:52 |
| roym2 | | for=".interfaces.IBug" | 22:52 |
| roym2 | | trusted="True" /> | 22:52 |
| roym2 | | | 22:52 |
| roym2 | | class BugDependencyAdapter(object): | 22:52 |
| roym2 | | implements(IBugDependencies) | 22:52 |
| roym2 | | __used_for__ = IBug | 22:52 |
| __odie | philiKON: southern california | 22:52 |
| philiKON | __odie, amazon.com u.s. should have the book by now, though... | 22:53 |
| philiKON | roym2, actually, you're right | 22:53 |
| __odie | philiKON: its notthing to worry about, it will come on its own schedule :) | 22:53 |
| philiKON | roym2, only that __used_for__ never meant anything to the zope.component architecture | 22:53 |
| philiKON | roym2, there's a new spelling of __used_for__ that is meaningful: adapts() | 22:53 |
| philiKON | class FooAdapter(object): | 22:53 |
| philiKON | adapts(IFoo) | 22:54 |
| philiKON | implements(IBar) | 22:54 |
| philiKON | so, this would be an adapter from IFoo providing IBar | 22:54 |
| philiKON | using those two delcarations in the python code, the provides="" and for="" attributes of the zcml directive are optional | 22:54 |
| philiKON | that only works on the trunk, though | 22:54 |
| roym2 | philiKON, ok - and do I still need "provides" if implements() says the same thing? | 22:55 |
| philiKON | no | 22:56 |
| philiKON | provides becomes obsolete if it's the same thign as implements(), same with for="" and adapts() | 22:56 |
| roym2 | in other words, the entire adaptor declaration can be removed? | 22:57 |
| philiKON | nope | 22:57 |
| philiKON | <adapter factory="..." /> must remain at least | 22:57 |
| philiKON | otherwise zcml won't knwo of it | 22:57 |
| roym2 | philiKON, thanks. | 22:58 |
| philiKON | np | 22:58 |
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| __odie | philiKON: are principal annotations stord in the ZODB or are they transient? (deleted when the session is over) | 23:05 |
| __odie | s/stord/stored/ :) | 23:05 |
| philiKON | annotations are usually persistnet in the zodb, depending on which impleemtnation of the principal annotation utility you choose | 23:06 |
| philiKON | the default one persists inthe zodb | 23:06 |
| philiKON | session data, otoh, is held in a transient data container | 23:07 |
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| J1m | philiKON, it is? | 23:07 |
| J1m | I don't think do | 23:07 |
| philiKON | it isn't? | 23:07 |
| philiKON | hmm | 23:07 |
| philiKON | phone | 23:07 |
| J1m | It's held in the main database with a data structure that does cleanup once in a while | 23:08 |
| J1m | No, not in a phone | 23:08 |
| __odie | :) | 23:08 |
| __odie | I need to use mysql in my app, which severly complicates things | 23:10 |
| J1m | yes | 23:10 |
| __odie | what I need to do I suppose is write a ZODB mysql storage container ... but Im not programmer enough for the task frankly :) | 23:12 |
| J1m | You should look at the sqlobject app that Alan Runyan did. | 23:14 |
| J1m | Or perhaps Ape | 23:14 |
| __odie | I will look into them | 23:19 |
| srichter | sqlobject app --> sqlos | 23:22 |
| srichter | J1m: does Ape work on Zope 3? | 23:22 |
| __odie | it only works with ingres I think anyways :) what use is that? heh | 23:22 |
| J1m | srichter, Oh yeah, I guess there were some z2 bits. | 23:23 |
| J1m | I don't remember why | 23:23 |
| srichter | I don't think so; I thought Shane developed it for PostGreSQL and some other RDBs | 23:23 |
| J1m | yes | 23:23 |
| J1m | It's very pluggable I believe | 23:23 |
| Theuni | ack | 23:24 |
| Theuni | it's very flexible | 23:24 |
| Theuni | we're using it for custom EAI stuff | 23:24 |
| Theuni | the postgres and filesystem mappers are only some standard examples. | 23:25 |
| roym2 | __odie, have you considered SQLStorage (from plone)? | 23:25 |
| roym2 | Its pretty standalone, I believe. | 23:26 |
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| omegadan_ | so, on an unrelated note, KDE or GNOME? :) | 23:45 |
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| srichter | __odie: KDE (since 0.9) ;-) | 23:50 |
| __odie | thats a lot of KDE | 23:51 |
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| __odie | have any theme recommendations? my distaste for KDE is largely on how rediculous it looks :) | 23:53 |
| nederhoed | I use KDE, I like it, the looks too, but Firefox is very slow in my opinion | 23:58 |
| __odie | do you think KDE is trying too hard to emulate windows? | 23:59 |
| nederhoed | no | 23:59 |
| __odie | with login and logout sounds ... | 23:59 |
| __odie | fair enough :) | 23:59 |
| nederhoed | I have no sound equipment connected:) | 23:59 |
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