IRC log of #zope3-dev for Tuesday, 2005-06-07

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__odieArchitectural question: in z3, how do you save session variables/objects?00:53
srichterI think there is a session package00:54
__odiethanks :)00:54
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__odiehmmm not in the 3.0 distribution00:56
srichterwe decided not to distribute it back then00:57
srichterit is in the trunk though00:57
__odie:) thanks00:57
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J1m_projekt01, do you and Dominik want to chat about the transient location issue?13:53
projekt01Ok, do you have time?13:54
J1m_At the moment I do13:54
projekt01I can't reach Dominik by phone, he isn't at home yet. But perhaps I can try to answer your question.13:55
J1m_I don't have a question.13:56
J1m_I wanted to answer any questions you 2 had13:56
J1m_I'll just send some email13:56
projekt01I see, I try to reach him later. Because I'm not fimilar with the problem right now.13:56
projekt01Are you arround later?13:57
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projekt01Ok thanks, I come back to you if I reach Dominik.14:01
J1m_I'm composing an email summarizing what I think needs to be done.14:03
projekt01Jim, this would be great. Should we move the package later to the z3 trunk if it's working?14:03
projekt01I mean our local file access utility and reference package based on this changes.14:05
J1m_I don't really care.14:07
J1m_My main interest is in:14:07
J1m_- gettong rid of ITransientLocation14:07
J1m_- Fixing the bug in the IKeyReference framework14:08
projekt01Ok, I see. I hope I can reach Dominik today. Otherwise I deep into the packages and can solve it tomorrow if Dominik don't have time.14:12
projekt01But first I have to solve the 161 functional test errors in zope\app.14:13
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projekt01This happens only if we add our tiks package to the src.14:14
projekt01But the tests break in zope\app. Perhaps it has something to do with zcml registration and testing or setup14:14
J1m_does tiks override anything?14:14
projekt01But perhaps a missing tear down?14:15
projekt01Or the apidoc zcml parsing part?14:16
projekt01Or something in tiks ;-(14:16
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projekt01Does anybody else have a failing test in: src\zope\app\publication\methodnotallowed.txt ?14:37
hdimaAll tests passed for me14:38
projekt01hdima, Ok, thanks14:42
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MacYETdoes anyone know of the status of webservices in Z3?15:23
srichterthere is none15:23
MacYETperfect :-)15:24
srichternoone has worked on SOAP support yet15:24
MacYETthat's what i wantedto hear15:24
projekt01MacYET, srichter, what's about the package at "repos/main/soap"15:25
MacYETi think soap is only one part of the game15:26
srichterprojekt01: I can't remember this being something substantial15:27
srichterMacYET: what else do you need?15:27
projekt01Do you think about standards like ebXML?15:27
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srichteroh, yeah, fred was working on soap recently15:28
MacYETsrichter: just investigating :)15:29
MacYETi think wdsl is another part of the game15:29
srichterMacYET: I am just reading through the README.txt of the soap package15:29
srichterit might be a good place to start15:29
* MacYET is just doing highlevel investigations15:30
projekt01MacYET, let me know if you do something in this direction. I'm very interested to work on this too.15:31
bskahanMacYET: take a look at the REST support in schoolbell15:32
projekt01srichter, I found the functional test which mess up my zope\app tests. It's
projekt01Can you give me some hint what's going on and what do my packages have to support?15:33
srichterI'll chat with you personally15:35
regebroHiya! Anybody know what parts of Zope3 that might use docutils?15:40
regebroBecause it clashes with Zope2s when we try to use it...and they are not compatible...15:42
hdima'' I guess15:44
srichteryeah and therefore all of API doc15:47
regebroWell, the API doc isn't used from Five anyway so we can live with that, if that doesn't work.15:48
srichterregebro: which version is newer? We are definitely willed to put the latest version into the code15:48
srichterit would be really cool if Five would integrate API doc into Zope 2's online help system15:49
regebroWell the Zope3 version is too old anyway, so hopefully it should work if we get rid of that one.15:49
regebroIt just makes me nervous. :)15:49
regebrosrichter: Hmmm. Interesting idea.15:49
srichterwell, we can update to the latest one, if you like15:49
regebrowell, for 3.1 that would probably be a good idea.15:52
regebroOK, I checked, and in 3.0.0, docutils 0.3.0 is used. Zope 2.7 uses
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regebroSwitching the 3.0.0 one out for 0.3.7 seems to work, although I haven't run any unit tests, so I don't know if anything is actually usingit. ;)15:54
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roym`I'm using the following modules: erc-track-mode, erc-ring-mode, erc-pcomplete-mode, erc-netsplit-mode, erc-message-english-flood-strict-mode, erc-fill-mode, erc-button-mode, erc-autojoin-mode!16:01
srichterroym: What are you talking about?16:02
roym`sorry - I inadvertently typed "/sm" into the channel - its spits out a verbose listing of modes.16:02
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__odieconceptual question: can principals be used *like* sessions? to encapsulate persistant data? hints at this, but I dont see it by reading the security interface22:18
nederhoedsuppose I want to build a logic tree with Images that reside in some other folder, how can I reuse (reference) these existing images?22:18
philiKON__odie, well, you can annotate persistent data with a principal (e.g. preferences, personal info, etc.) using the principal annotation utility22:19
philiKON__odie, session data is usually somewhat volatile22:19
__odiephiliKON: fair enough, my problem is I dont see any way to have objects live throught a session? :)22:20
__odiei probably have missed something...22:20
philiKONwell, that's the point of sessions, right?22:21
philiKONthat they hold data over several requests22:21
__odieexactly! so how is this accomplished in zope3 ? :)22:21
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philiKON__odie, with :)22:22
__odieis that the appropriate way to handle sessions even when you are using principals?22:24
philiKON"using principals" sounds a bit awkward22:24
nederhoedphilipp, can you answer my question too?22:25
philiKONin zope you're always using principals22:25
philiKONprincipals are the generalized users22:25
philiKONnederhoed, i don't understand your question :(22:25
__odienederhoed: nor did I understand your question :)22:25
nederhoed:) I have 1 big folder with Images and I want to categorize these using Folders, with the possibility of the same image ending up in multiple Folders22:26
nederhoedcan this be done22:26
__odienederhoed: symlink? :)22:27
nederhoedyes, or in object terms a reference22:27
nederhoedI cannot set the parent twice22:27
philiKONso, the categories can be folderish objects (or, containerish objects), but they can't be the __parent__ of the images22:28
philiKONother than that, nothing should prevent you from storing direct references in some other objects22:29
nederhoedyes, because if I would set the parent, it would be moved (i assume)22:29
philiKONbut to move, one should use
nederhoedand how can I convert your direct referencing into Zope3? is it common practice?22:30
philiKONwell, category[key] = your_image22:31
philiKONwhere category is your category container22:31
philiKONcould be a simple BTreeContainer22:31
nederhoedah ok, quite intuitive22:31
philiKONjust be careful not to assume any parent relationships there22:31
philiKONif you use this purely for categorizing, this should work22:31
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nederhoedthink of sellable Products I want to be show up in several places22:32
philiKONviews that walk up the parent path, like @@absolute_url, will still find the old location, of course22:32
nederhoedthanks, I will take the documentation and figure it out22:32
__odiedocumentation? you have documentation? :)22:33
nederhoed__odie, http://localhost:8080/++apidoc++22:33
__odienederhoed: im aware of the api documentation ... but it is, shall we say, insufficent? :)22:34
nederhoedI do end up browsing app sources now and then :)22:34
__odiez3 is suffering from a reliance on the autoamted documentation.  Its not "real" documentation, it shows you pieces of a puzzle are avaliable, but not how they fit together22:35
__odienederhoed: I do as well, but you cant get "the big picture" from browsing the source... thats where i am currently suffering :)22:35
nederhoedI recognize that situation.22:36
nederhoedI'm planning on adding small howto's to my weblog22:36
nederhoed(some day soon)22:36
philiKON__odie, what can we do to solve that problem?22:36
nederhoedZope3 Cookbook22:36
__odiephiliKON: well, your book (which I have 2 copies of:-) was a damn good start, but theres lots of holes in it.22:36
philiKONwow, 2 copies :)22:36
__odieone of my developer friends stole my first one :)22:37
philiKON__odie, tell me about the holes: philikon@philikon.de22:37
__odiefair enough, I will write you a treatise on holes :)22:37
philiKONi'd appreciate it22:37
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philiKONi want to improve it22:37
__odiethat being said, I think on what your book covered its one of the best technical books ive ever read22:38
philiKONwell thank you22:38
__odiei just had a lot of unanswered questions :)22:38
philiKONi understand22:38
__odieand I think partially that has to do with z3 simply not being ready for production yet22:38
philiKONat least of a lot of applications that we run in production22:39
philiKON3.1 will be a vast improvement22:39
__odie3.0 was very barebones :)22:40
philiKONbut it was out there22:40
philiKONand that was overdue22:40
__odieThe house was built, but the plumbing wasn't installed22:40
J1mThere were people building production apps with it22:40
J1mIt all depends on what you need22:41
philiKONthat, and you have to build the house first before installing the plumbing :)22:41
philiKONsome people did their own plumbing, some didn't need all of the plumbing other systems have22:41
__odieyea I understand that...22:42
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__odiebut for me at least, it makes it difficult to grasp some concepts when others are missing... if that makes any sense?22:43
philiKONit would if ti were a little more concrete :)22:44
__odieyea :)22:45
__odieI'll send you that email in a day or two when Ive had time to consider it sufficently22:46
__odieand when the second copy of your book arrives (damn postal service) heh22:47
philiKONhow did you order it? amazon?22:47
__odieI ordered the first one through amazon22:47
__odieand the second one two actually22:48
__odienow that I think about it22:48
philiKONk. just wondering22:49
__odieno worries :)22:50
__odiethe first one came in 6 days (pretty reasonable for coming all the way from germany)22:50
__odiethis one, taking a bit longer :)22:50
philiKON__odie, where are you?22:51
roym2I am confused about what seems like redundancy in the following22:52
roym2declarations (from the bugtracker); ie: both the adaptor and the class22:52
roym2declaration seem to indicate the same thing - that the BugDependencyAdapter class22:52
roym2implements IBugDependencies for IBug. Can I get away with not specifying22:52
roym2one or the other?22:52
roym2 | <adapter22:52
roym2 |       factory=".bug.BugDependencyAdapter"22:52
roym2 |       provides=".interfaces.IBugDependencies"22:52
roym2 |       for=".interfaces.IBug"22:52
roym2 |       trusted="True" />22:52
roym2 |22:52
roym2 | class BugDependencyAdapter(object):22:52
roym2 |     implements(IBugDependencies)22:52
roym2 |     __used_for__ = IBug22:52
__odiephiliKON: southern california22:52
philiKON__odie, u.s. should have the book by now, though...22:53
philiKONroym2, actually, you're right22:53
__odiephiliKON: its notthing to worry about, it will come on its own schedule :)22:53
philiKONroym2, only that __used_for__ never meant anything to the zope.component architecture22:53
philiKONroym2, there's a new spelling of __used_for__ that is meaningful: adapts()22:53
philiKONclass FooAdapter(object):22:53
philiKON    adapts(IFoo)22:54
philiKON  implements(IBar)22:54
philiKONso, this would be an adapter from IFoo providing IBar22:54
philiKONusing those two delcarations in the python code, the provides="" and for="" attributes of the zcml directive are optional22:54
philiKONthat only works on the trunk, though22:54
roym2philiKON, ok - and do I still need "provides" if implements() says the same thing?22:55
philiKONprovides becomes obsolete if it's the same thign as implements(), same with for="" and adapts()22:56
roym2in other words, the entire adaptor declaration can be removed?22:57
philiKON<adapter factory="..." /> must remain at least22:57
philiKONotherwise zcml won't knwo of it22:57
roym2philiKON, thanks.22:58
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__odiephiliKON: are principal annotations stord in the ZODB or are they transient? (deleted when the session is over)23:05
__odies/stord/stored/ :)23:05
philiKONannotations are usually persistnet in the zodb, depending on which impleemtnation of the principal annotation utility you choose23:06
philiKONthe default one persists inthe zodb23:06
philiKONsession data, otoh, is held in a transient data container23:07
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J1mphiliKON, it is?23:07
J1mI don't think do23:07
philiKONit isn't?23:07
J1mIt's held in the main database with a data structure that does cleanup once in a while23:08
J1mNo, not in a phone23:08
__odieI need to use mysql in my app, which severly complicates things23:10
__odiewhat I need to do I suppose is write a ZODB mysql storage container ... but Im not programmer enough for the task frankly :)23:12
J1mYou should look at the sqlobject app that Alan Runyan did.23:14
J1mOr perhaps Ape23:14
__odieI will look into them23:19
srichtersqlobject app --> sqlos23:22
srichterJ1m: does Ape work on Zope 3?23:22
__odieit only works with ingres I think anyways :) what use is that? heh23:22
J1msrichter, Oh yeah, I guess there were some z2 bits.23:23
J1mI don't remember why23:23
srichterI don't think so; I thought Shane developed it for PostGreSQL and some other RDBs23:23
J1mIt's very pluggable I believe23:23
Theuniit's very flexible23:24
Theuniwe're using it for custom EAI stuff23:24
Theunithe postgres and filesystem mappers are only some standard examples.23:25
roym2__odie, have you considered SQLStorage (from plone)?23:25
roym2Its pretty standalone, I believe.23:26
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omegadan_so, on an unrelated note, KDE or GNOME? :)23:45
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srichter__odie: KDE (since 0.9) ;-)23:50
__odiethats a lot of KDE23:51
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__odiehave any theme recommendations? my distaste for KDE is largely on how rediculous it looks :)23:53
nederhoedI use KDE, I like it, the looks too, but Firefox is very slow in my opinion23:58
__odiedo you think KDE is trying too hard to emulate windows?23:59
__odiewith login and logout sounds ...23:59
__odiefair enough :)23:59
nederhoedI have no sound equipment connected:)23:59

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