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| bob2 | srichter: where can I see a list of remaining bugs? | 03:46 |
|---|---|---|
| bob2 | and do they all require a zope god to fix? | 03:46 |
| srichter | TODO.txt | 03:48 |
| srichter | no, there are some simple ones | 03:48 |
| srichter | also, we can skip those that already exist in 3.0 | 03:49 |
| srichter | so if you can determine that the bug is also in Z3.0, then tell me and I lower its urgency | 03:49 |
| srichter | bob2: there are a couple more new bugs in the collector that need attention | 03:50 |
| srichter | but some are as simple as applying a patch | 03:50 |
| bob2 | is everything in TODO.txt important? | 03:53 |
| bob2 | e.g. messageboard doesn't work | 03:53 |
| srichter | yes, because Zope 3.1 must be compatible with 3.0 | 03:58 |
| bob2 | ahh, of course | 03:58 |
| srichter | so if the messageboard is broken, then some compatibility is not there | 03:58 |
| bob2 | hm, it'd be handy if people included test cases | 04:04 |
| bob2 | srichter: re: 307, should zope just fail to run at all? | 04:19 |
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| bob2 | srichter: 336 is already fixed | 04:24 |
| bob2 | none have patches, unfortunately | 04:37 |
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| jcnorman | Is anyone working on TTW facilities? | 05:39 |
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| bob2 | how mature is the twisted integration branch? | 14:48 |
| srichter | bob2: it works well | 14:49 |
| srichter | bob2: however, this is definitely not the form it will enter the trunk | 14:49 |
| bob2 | is it's ftp server more...reliable than zope's own? | 14:49 |
| bob2 | ah | 14:49 |
| srichter | Jim gave me some other requirements later that will make me change th edesign a bit | 14:50 |
| srichter | well, the FTP code in twisted is also pretty new | 14:50 |
| bob2 | does it look like a 3.2 timeframe? | 14:50 |
| srichter | but I trust itamar that he did a good job :-) | 14:50 |
| srichter | twisted will be in 3.2, yes | 14:50 |
| bob2 | awesome | 14:51 |
| bob2 | ah, btw, issue 336 claims to be fixed in trunk, but's still listed in TODO.txt | 14:51 |
| srichter | ok, so it can be removed from TODO.txt | 14:51 |
| bob2 | cool, but only one of us has commit access ;p | 14:51 |
| srichter | then shoot me an E-mail, so I won't forget | 14:52 |
| bob2 | will do | 14:52 |
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| srichter | mkerrin: so you are coming to Tuebingen? | 15:54 |
| srichter | Great! :-) | 15:55 |
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| mkerrin | srichter: yipe - looked too intereseting not to go | 15:56 |
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| srichter | mkerrin: :-) So I definitely won't do the Twisted stuff before then | 15:57 |
| srichter | mkerrin: Jim communicated some ideas to me; especially he wants to be able to run bosth zserver and twisted; so we have to change our design a bit | 15:58 |
| srichter | but it should not be as hard as it sounds at first | 15:58 |
| mkerrin | that shouldn't be too bad | 16:01 |
| srichter | no | 16:06 |
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| srichter | J1m: are you guys using JaWE to create new process definitions? | 18:33 |
| srichter | for small workflows it seems almost easier to develop them in Python or do you write XPDL by hand? | 18:33 |
| J1m | Yes, we use Jawe | 18:41 |
| J1m | For complex workflows, I often find it easier to edit them my hand, | 18:42 |
| J1m | jawe has a fairly primitive UI that tends to require lots of clicking | 18:42 |
| srichter | yeah, I noticed that today and it requires some formal overhead that you do not have in the python version | 18:42 |
| srichter | like package management | 18:42 |
| J1m | This is made worse by the fact that it all of it's windows/dialogs are model within Jawe. | 18:43 |
| srichter | so I guess I'll write XPDL by hand | 18:43 |
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| J1m | Don't get me wrong | 18:47 |
| J1m | I certainly author with Jawe. | 18:47 |
| J1m | I wouldn't want to have to write that many pointy brackets by hand. | 18:47 |
| srichter | what version do you use? | 18:49 |
| J1m | 1.4.2 | 18:50 |
| srichter | I just installed 1.4.2 and it does not look like the version I had installed before, which seemed more intuitive | 18:50 |
| srichter | mmh, I have to study it some more then | 18:50 |
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| srichter | J1m: do I have to do something special to be able to define new workflow processes? | 20:14 |
| srichter | ok, never mind | 20:15 |
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| SteveA | J1m: i would like to ask you a question about requests and get/setTraversalStack and getURL | 21:05 |
| SteveA | if I have a traverser that removes an item from the traversal stack (because it wants to take account of more than one traversal step) | 21:05 |
| SteveA | it can do so using getTraversalStack to get the list of remaining traversal steps, and then pop a name, and then use setTraversalStack to set the new remaining traversal steps | 21:06 |
| SteveA | however, _traversed_names in BaseRequest is not updated | 21:07 |
| SteveA | so _traversed_names does not contain the name that was removed from the traversal stack. | 21:07 |
| SteveA | getURL uses _traversed_names to say what the URL is | 21:08 |
| SteveA | so calling getURL() gets a url that misses out the step that was removed from the traversal stack. | 21:08 |
| SteveA | I think the right thing to do, concerning the state held by the request, is to append the missing step to the _traversed_names as i remove it from the traversal stack | 21:13 |
| SteveA | practically, it seems to me that we could have three operations on IPublicationRequest: getTraversalStack, setTraversalStack and nameWasTraversed | 21:14 |
| SteveA | or, there could be a slightly more abstract API on IPublicationRequest that keeps the internal state of the request consistent. | 21:15 |
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| J1m | agreed | 21:33 |
| J1m | Or | 21:33 |
| J1m | 1: why do you have to call setTraversalStack? | 21:34 |
| J1m | If you pop an item, doesn't that just mutate it? | 21:34 |
| J1m | 2. Perhaps the travseral stack should update traversed names as they are popped. | 21:34 |
| SteveA | currently in the code, getTraversalStack gives you a copy of the list that is the internal stack | 21:35 |
| SteveA | you can do all sorts of bizarre things with the traversal stack | 21:36 |
| SteveA | for example, changing it for something entirely different than it was | 21:36 |
| SteveA | rather than just popping off a few items | 21:36 |
| SteveA | there's a separate facility for adding extra traversal steps to the end of the path | 21:36 |
| SteveA | that doesn't involve the traversal stack | 21:37 |
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| SteveA | perhaps this facility is too flexible | 21:37 |
| srichter | J1m: it seems that WfMC does not allow circular flows; why? For example, in the review process, if the editor rejects a publication, it could easily return to the review or author activity. | 21:38 |
| SteveA | so, if the traversal stack was exposed with the interface of a stack | 21:39 |
| SteveA | that would account for both use-cases | 21:39 |
| SteveA | you could pop from the stack, which implies adding a name to _traversed_names | 21:39 |
| SteveA | and you can push onto the stack | 21:39 |
| SteveA | which accounts for that other API | 21:40 |
| SteveA | What are the requirements for backwards compatibility for chaning the traversal stack code? | 21:40 |
| SteveA | s/chaning/changing/ | 21:41 |
| J1m | what other API? | 21:42 |
| J1m | srichter, WFMC certainly allows circular flows. | 21:43 |
| srichter | mmh, it did not let me model that in JaWE | 21:43 |
| J1m | srichter, there is an example in the tests. | 21:43 |
| J1m | It let me model it. :) | 21:44 |
| srichter | mh, did you use simple transitions? | 21:44 |
| J1m | yes | 21:44 |
| srichter | ok | 21:44 |
| SteveA | J1m: the other API is setPathSuffix | 21:45 |
| srichter | mmh, the first activity cannot be referred back to for some reason | 21:45 |
| SteveA | "Extra traversal steps after normal traversal" | 21:45 |
| J1m | ah | 21:45 |
| SteveA | these won't be reflected in getURL either | 21:46 |
| SteveA | i don't know what setPathSuffix is practically used for | 21:46 |
| J1m | Me neither | 21:46 |
| J1m | is it called? | 21:46 |
| SteveA | yes | 21:48 |
| SteveA | by the xmlrpc request | 21:48 |
| J1m | Hm, interesting | 21:48 |
| J1m | I imagine that getURL is irrelevent for xmlrpc. | 21:49 |
| SteveA | and by the method: or action: magic prefixes in the form handling code of requests | 21:49 |
| SteveA | but, i personally dislike method: and action: | 21:49 |
| SteveA | or is it :action and :method | 21:50 |
| SteveA | i forget | 21:50 |
| J1m | I would say they are obsolete. | 21:50 |
| J1m | I'd be happy to see them deprecated. | 21:50 |
| SteveA | so, setPathSuffix can be deprecated | 21:50 |
| J1m | as far as backward compatibility. | 21:51 |
| J1m | as far as backward compatibility: | 21:51 |
| SteveA | and the XMLRPCRequest can directly use its members | 21:51 |
| SteveA | rather than using setPathSuffix | 21:51 |
| J1m | we have to be backward compatible for a period of time, as indicated by the deprecation warnings. | 21:51 |
| J1m | k | 21:51 |
| SteveA | what i would like to do is to deprecate getTraversalStack and setTraversalStack | 21:52 |
| SteveA | and replace that with a public attribute/property traversal_stack | 21:52 |
| SteveA | that provides ITraversalStack | 21:52 |
| SteveA | having push and pop methods | 21:53 |
| SteveA | um, operations | 21:53 |
| SteveA | and deprecate setPathSuffix | 21:53 |
| J1m | ok w me. I doubt many people are using these. | 21:53 |
| J1m | A proposal would be in order. | 21:53 |
| J1m | And this shouldn't happen until the 3.1 branch is made. | 21:53 |
| SteveA | when is that? | 21:54 |
| J1m | ask srichter | 21:54 |
| J1m | I hope soon :) | 21:54 |
| J1m | We need to get a bunch of bugs fixed. | 21:54 |
| J1m | He won't let us check in new features until we get the bugs fixed. | 21:55 |
| J1m | Which is, of course, understandable. | 21:55 |
| SteveA | oh, releasing from the trunk | 21:55 |
| SteveA | not releasing from a branch tagged from the trunk | 21:55 |
| J1m | Right | 21:56 |
| J1m | That's not ho I would do it, but I'm not in charge and I understand his reasons. | 21:56 |
| SteveA | okay. well, i'll get a proposal done, and implement this for launchpad now. | 21:56 |
| J1m | That's not how I would do it, but I'm not in charge and I understand his reasons. | 21:56 |
| SteveA | when i get the goahead from srichter i'll look at porting the launchpad changes to zope. | 21:56 |
| srichter | reading.... | 21:57 |
| srichter | SteveA: let me know when you are ready to do your stuff, and I'll cut the branch and write the necessary messages | 21:58 |
| SteveA | srichter: i will be able to write the proposal over the next couple of weeks. the launchpad team are in brazil writing specs, so i'm sure i can fit this one in. | 21:59 |
| srichter | ok, I don't want to hijack the trunk any longer either; though the block has not animated people to fix bugs or at least evaluate them :-( | 22:00 |
| SteveA | bug days are good | 22:00 |
| srichter | yeah, maybe we should have one | 22:01 |
| srichter | could I have the support from some of the cannonical/ST guys? | 22:01 |
| SteveA | you can ask the ST guys. that's tom hoffman's call. | 22:02 |
| srichter | ok | 22:02 |
| srichter | what from you guys (canonical)? | 22:02 |
| SteveA | i can ask about canonical, but we're all booked up for the next 3 weeks | 22:02 |
| SteveA | writing specs in brazil | 22:03 |
| srichter | ok | 22:03 |
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| srichter | J1m: how does your (as in ZC Zope 3 team) schedule look like? Up for a bug day? | 22:05 |
| J1m | don't know. | 22:05 |
| J1m | maybe | 22:06 |
| srichter | I think some of those bugs need more discussion than actual fixing; I think we can slash off half of the bugs by saying: They were already around in Zope 3.0 | 22:07 |
| J1m | k | 22:08 |
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| SteveA | srichter: i urge you to consider time-based releases | 22:24 |
| J1m | SteveA, we've decided on time-based releases | 22:25 |
| J1m | Starting with 3.2 in december. | 22:25 |
| SteveA | cool | 22:25 |
| J1m | 3.2 will be feature frozen Nov 1. | 22:25 |
| SteveA | i really need to catch up with the zope3 list | 22:25 |
| mgedmin | hopefully 3.1 will be released before that | 22:33 |
| * mgedmin ducks | 22:33 | |
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| srichter | mgedmin: me too | 22:52 |
| srichter | mgedmin: I am hoping that Tom and Mark will agree for you (the ST guys) to help out with a bug day | 22:52 |
| SteveA | srichter: schooltool's funding is focused specifically on doing work that directly benefits schools | 22:59 |
| SteveA | so i doubt that the shuttleworth foundation will fund work on a zope3 bug day | 22:59 |
| srichter | ok | 23:00 |
| srichter | I can only try | 23:00 |
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| srichter | I'll set up a bug day and hope that people will show up ;-) | 23:01 |
| mgedmin | srichter, do you have a date in mind? | 23:02 |
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| srichter | mgedmin: no, but what about next Tuesday? | 23:03 |
| srichter | or is a Friday better? | 23:03 |
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| mgedmin | srichter, Friday might be better | 23:08 |
| srichter | ok, so I'll make announcement for next Friday | 23:08 |
| mgedmin | I think we're releasing a release candidate of SchoolTool on Tuesday | 23:08 |
| srichter | ok | 23:08 |
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| srichter | J1m: do you mind, if I give zope.wfmc.process.[ActivityDefinition|TransitionDefinition] a __repr__? | 23:15 |
| J1m | no | 23:19 |
| srichter | ok, good | 23:20 |
| srichter | I'll do that then, since it benefits my testing | 23:20 |
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| srichter | I like zope.wfmc more and more by the minute; I hope it will be easy to hook up the applications to the model as well ;-) | 23:53 |
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