IRC log of #zope3-dev for Tuesday, 2005-07-26

srichterdoes anyone here know how to use Fred's improved http() call in fdoctests?00:03
J1mWhat improved http call?00:04
srichterwith the form stuff00:04
J1mah, no00:05
srichterso you do not need this all as a string00:05
srichterI just found the HTTPCaller00:05
srichterhow could I best get the Authorization done?00:05
srichterso I guess I have to say:00:07
srichterGET /index.html00:07
srichterAuthorization: Basic mgr:mgrpw00:07
srichter{'id': 123, ...}00:07
srichterit would be nice to have the signature:00:07
srichterhttp(req_string, handle_errors=True, env=None, form=None)00:08
srichterthis way I could specify the environment (including credentials) as well00:10
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mexiKONsrichter, why don't you go back to using self.publish() then :)00:19
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srichtermexiKON: that's what I really want00:20
srichterjust in fdoctests00:20
srichterI really, really hate the recording stuff00:20
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srichterit's even worse fixing those tests00:20
mexiKONi really really like it :)00:20
srichteryou never had to fix a whole lot of them00:21
mexiKONi wouldn't be so sure there :)00:21
srichterit's a pain in th butt00:21
J1mwe've come not to like them either.00:21
mexiKONalso, the nice thing about it is that it's HTTP00:21
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mexiKONeveryone knows HTTP00:21
J1mI hope we can release Benji's mechtests soon.00:21
srichterI think the FunctionalTestCase API exposed in a doctest format would be ideal00:21
srichterJ1m: what are emchtests?00:22
mexiKONsrichter, that wouldn't be so hard00:22
srichterI know; I just want it00:22
J1mThey are functional tests that use mechanize.00:22
J1mSo you write them on the same level as selenium.00:22
J1m(They actually have a nicer api in some ways.)00:22
srichtermechanize looks interesting00:24
wiggynicer than selenium00:24
wiggythat shouldn't be very hard00:24
srichteryeah, it looks better every minute :-)00:25
srichterit seems to behave much more like what the user would do and command the browser to do00:26
srichterJ1m: could you put a snapshot into SVN?00:27
J1mI'll ask Benji00:27
srichtercool, thanks00:27
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benji_yorkIf anyone is interested, I've just put zc.mechtest in the subversion sandbox (svn://
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_projekt01srichter, the mechtest package looks very nice for a easy testing01:14
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srichterprojekt01: I will use it right away for my project01:43
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srichterthe demo.txt of mechtest is very cool01:50
srichterI feel like this is what I always wanted :-)01:50
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srichterbut it requires Py 2.4 as far as I can tell01:52
philiKONyeah, but so what01:52
philiKONi think 3.1 should be the last z3 version to support python 2.301:53
srichtermmh probably01:53
philiKONsrichter, btw, any clue why running apidoc/ifacemodule/ from the command line results in failures (component lists are empty instead of filled with demo components), while it passes when run through the test runner?01:54
srichtermmh, no01:54
srichternot off the top of my head01:54
philiKONit's pretty weird01:55
projekt01I hope we will change to py2.4 after release 3.1, or are there any reason why not?01:55
srichterit probably has to do with the fact of what packages are visited and which are not01:55
srichterno reason as far as I can tell01:56
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philiKONsrichter, yeah, i just thought of that too01:56
philiKONprojekt01, well, you can still run 3.1 with py2.4 if you want01:56
projekt01Yeah, we switched yesterday to py2.4 with Tiks, because we whana use the zc.formlib in some parts01:57
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bob2untangling how the default container display works is kinda painful12:05
philiKON<browser:containerViews /> really is just a shortcut12:07
bob2I more mean contents.p[yt]12:07
bob2they seems to be a reasonable example of how to have a single form modify multiple objects12:08
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* wiggy orders the philiKON book12:34
MrTopfgood choice :-)12:34
wiggyyou guys pimped it succesfully12:35
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bob2is the container display code a decent example of how to twiddle multiple objects from the one form?12:37
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bob2or should I jump to zc.form?12:38
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philiKONjinty, wiggy: great news about zope in debian! this will make deployment so much easier.14:58
wiggyhm, which news?15:01
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jintywiggy: I sent a badly written mail to zope3-dev about what we talked about in debconf.15:02
wiggyah, ok15:02
wiggyperhaps I should subscribe to zope3-dev15:02
wiggyList-Id: Discuss development of and for Zope3 <>15:05
wiggyfunky grammar there :)15:05
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benji_yorksrichter, In reply to your email, yes we can. :)15:45
srichterbenji_york: I would really like to move mechtest to Zope 3 trunk15:45
srichtersince it is not part of the release we can add it15:45
srichterI can provide some time working on it too15:46
benji_yorkok, there are a few details to work on first15:46
benji_yorkthat would be great15:46
srichterWhile writing tests last night I made a couple of improvements already15:46
benji_york(the working :)15:46
srichteris it not ZPL yet?15:46
bob2mechtest for functional testing?15:47
benji_yorkWe'll need to decide what to do about the dependencies, I think we'll probably do vendor imports15:47
srichterbenji_york: yeah, I think that will be best15:47
srichterbenji_york: what are the licenses for the mechanize pacakges?15:47
benji_yorksrichter, we released it, so I suspect it's ZPL by default :)15:47
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srichterbtw, it is very very nice15:48
benji_yorkcool, I think it's pretty good15:48
srichterI think with a couple more API improvements, it will be the total killer15:48
srichterbenji_york: do you know how to do a vendor import?15:49
benji_yorkall of the are BSD, but the pullparser *says* it's artistic, but on the web page he says to ignore the LICENSE.txt file, so we'll need to get him to release a version with the correct license in the archive15:49
projekt01benji_york, 1+ from me for the mechtest15:49
benji_yorksrichter: vendor import: yes15:49
benji_yorksrichter: "vendor import" is just fancy talk for "make a copy"  :)15:50
srichteroh, I see :-)15:50
benji_yorkproject01: have you had a chance to play with it?15:50
projekt01Just looking at the code, it looks promising15:51
srichterbenji_york: one improvement I did was to give forms a click() and submit()15:51
srichterI also fixed Control.value[set] to deal with File controls15:51
benji_yorkprojekt01: ok, cool15:51
benji_yorksrichter: submit makes sence, what does "click" do?15:52
srichterI can send a real README.txt file, if someone cares15:52
faassenbenji_york: where is mechtest?15:52
benji_york+1 on file controls15:52
srichterbenji_york: same as submit15:52
srichterthey are synonyms15:52
wiggywith a modern CMS 'vendor import' really is a seperate thing15:52
benji_yorkthen we should only have one...15:52
srichterthat is pretty much true for Browser.[click/submit] for submitting forms as well15:52
projekt01faassen, svn+ssh://svnzope/repos/main/Sandbox/zc/mechtest15:52
srichterok, fine with me15:53
srichtersubmit is better :-)15:53
faassenprojekt01: thanks.15:53
benji_yorksrichter: yep submit is better, besites I want to keep the browser metaphor pretty clear, and you don't "click on a form", but you can "submit a form"15:53
srichterI'll send my README.txt as demo to the list.15:54
benji_yorksrichter: is it a reworking/improvement on "demo.txt"?15:55
faassenbenji_york: that doctest looks really a lot cleaner than a traditional functional doctest, cool.15:55
faassenbenji_york: I used mechanize for functional testing in the past, but I can see it combines well with doctests.15:55
srichterno, I am working on a contract and I used mechtest for it15:55
srichterI will improve demo.txt, once its in the trunk15:56
benji_yorkfaassen: that's what I was going for, I'm not a big fan of the "old-style" functional tests15:56
srichterI hate them (obviously)15:56
faasseni don't like the tcp dump ones. :)15:56
benji_yorksrichter: re demo.txt: ok15:56
projekt01me too15:56
faassenof course this doesn't make them better documentation for the API. for that a functional test at the python level is still preferrable.15:57
benji_yorkyep, record/delete/type/scratch-your-eyes out cycle isn't much fun  :)15:57
srichterI think they are in the true spirit of functional testing15:57
faassenfor instance figuring out how to set up a principal folder from any functional doctest will be hard, if you're after the API calls.15:57
srichterfor API you have unit tests15:58
benji_yorkfaassen: right! but that's not exactly what funcitonal tests are for15:58
faassensrichter: no, there's a lack.15:58
benji_yorkfaassen: what kind of lack?15:58
srichterI don't think so15:58
faassenunit tests test just a unit.15:58
faassendoctests are nice to figure out the API to some unit.15:58
faassenfunctional doctests test whether it works as expected when all integrated and presented through a web UI.15:58
srichterthe recent README.txt files (doc unittest) describe the API beautifully15:59
faassenbut if I'm a programmer and I want to find out how to set up a Principal Folder in a pluggable authentication..15:59
srichterright, so ftests test the Web UI15:59
srichterthat's exactely what this does so great15:59
faassenyou need an integrated environment and doctest it from Python.15:59
faassenit doesn't help you if you want to use the API.15:59
MrTopfmaybe it's still good to have additional docs15:59
faassenso, there's a lack in the middle. a functional doctest that tests the Python level. I haven't seen many of those in zope 3 yet, though I know it should be possible.16:00
d2mOT: anyone has contact to 'Sawdog/Andrew Sawyers' -- i'd need him in #zope-web atm16:00
benji_yorkI've done some "HOWTO" doctests that were meant to show how to use a package, but were registered as tests to make sure the documentation actually match reality, and had good success with them16:01
* faassen nods.16:01
MrTopfbenji_york: sounds like a good idea16:01
benji_yorkMrTopf: yep, and the additional docs should be doctests :)16:01
faassenbut often these tests need to run in an integrated Zope 3 environment, so they're ftests. they're just not testing the web part.16:01
faassenbenji_york: do you make those HOWTO documents functional doctests?16:01
MrTopfas the usual doctest/unittest also need to make sure that every detail works and you might miss the big picture by reading them16:01
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srichterfaassen: those are commonly referred to as integration tests16:02
benji_yorkfaassen: right!, my HOWTOs were ftests because I had to execute ZCML, etc16:02
srichterwe have addressed the need of integration tests often as a mix of unit and functional tests16:02
faassenbenji_york: right. anyway, I found a lack when trying to figure out Zope 3's authentication story. there was a functional doctest with tcp dumps in them, but that was singularly unhelpful to figure out the API, or even the UI. :)16:02
srichterI think with Jim's new level-based test runner, this situation will improce16:02
faassenbenji_york: this mechtest thing will help with the UI, but for integration API, you need your HOWTO style thingies.16:03
benji_yorkraassen: definitely16:03
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faassenJ1m: hey.16:04
faassenwe're admiring mechtest.16:04
srichterJ1m: as I just told Benji, I am really hyped about mechtest ;-)16:04
J1mYes, It's pretty cool. Can't wait to try it myself. :)16:04
benji_yorksrichter: I spent yesterday converting one of our very simple packages to run in its own level, it was a major pain, but now that I know some of the pit-falls I think it'll be a major boon to us, becuase we can make components truely independent of the systems we develop. making them more reusable16:05
philiKONnow, the really interesting question is: will zope.formlib and zc.mechtest make it into a zope release at some point (3.2)?16:05
srichtergood to hear; I have not looked at levels yet, but as far as I understand them, they will allow us to fill in all those integration tests and much more16:06
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faassenzope.formlib is a life saver already in 3.1. :)16:07
srichterphiliKON: if mechtest is ZPL, it will be definitely landing in 3.2; in fact I am going to introduce the dependency on it in schooltool this week ;-)16:07
philiKONsrichter, you working on schooltool?16:07
srichteryes, a little bit16:07
srichterI implemented a zope.wfmc-based WF for it16:07
srichter(which is, btw, another package I really like ;-)16:08
srichterit is a bit painful to understnad initially (more conceptual), but then its all downhill (m << -1)16:09
anguenot+1 ;)16:09
anguenotBTW for the real deprecation of NotFoundError (#284). It's fine for everybody ?16:11
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srichteranguenot: yeah16:12
anguenotSteve would like the renamme of NotFound within the publisher16:12
srichterI saw that16:12
anguenotaccording to his latest comment within the tracker16:12
srichterhis arguments were good, but I have no strong opinion16:12
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anguenotThe initial issue was about confusion with the NotFoundError16:13
philiKONyes, his arguments are good, but i value consistency with existing apis (e.g. Zope 2) a little higher here16:13
philiKONjust my EUR 0.0216:13
philiKONalso, the fact that NotFound is imported from zope.publisher should indicate that it's about some published resource not being found, not a general component (*LookupError is responsible for that)16:14
anguenotit's argument was about having an explicit name as well as far as i get Steve's comment16:15
anguenotIt's no big deal to rename and deprecate NotFound it needed at the same time16:16
philiKONi'm -1, but not feeling too stronly16:17
anguenotSteveA: here ?16:17
bob2hrm, when running the zope.formlib tests, I get a whole lote of failures of the type "ComponentLookupError: ((<zope.schema._bootstrapfields.Int object at 0xb74fde8c>, <zope.publisher.browser.TestRequest instance URL=>), <InterfaceClass>, u'')"16:21
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faassenbob2: did you register the configure.zcml in the formlib?16:34
bob2hrrrm, dang16:35
bob2good point16:35
* bob2 tries to remember where the helper functions for registering things like that in tests lived16:36
bob2that's easier than converting itto ztapi.provideAdapter calls, thanks a lot16:44
bob2hm, I don't seem to have zope.configuration16:45
bob2ah, I do16:46
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bob2hm, loading enough machinery to be able to run the tests seems fairly non-trivial16:55
srichterspmetimes it is not16:56
srichterbut there are many helper functions in
srichter[setup, ztapi] that will helpyou16:56
bob2does one of them have functions to parse and run the configure.zcml for me?16:57
srichterno, they assume you set up stuff in python16:58
srichterwhich you probably want to do16:58
srichteryou have to use zope.confiuration for ZCML16:58
bob2hm, right, it's just setting up 3 adapters16:59
bob2what do the first two arguments to provideAdapter do?17:00
bob2(required, provided)17:00
srichterlook at the code17:00
srichteror the API documentation17:00
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* J1m wished I remembered my strong opinions on NotFound from a few months ago.17:05
bob2hm, I guess I don't understand what an <adapter> with only a factory and name does17:06
bob2unless it just registers an adapter yo ucan only lookup by name17:06
srichterbob2: it picks the adapts and implements declaration from the class17:06
J1mfrom the component being registered17:07
bob2srichter: from the class the configure.zcml is in?17:07
bob2it's a bare <adapter> in configure.zcml, not inside a <content> or anything17:07
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srichterbob2: no from the adapter class17:09
srichterlook at the adapter class17:09
bob2hm, ok17:11
bob2it's a module-level attribute pointing at an instance of NamedTemplateImplementation()17:12
J1mIs NotFoundError being discussed somewhere?17:14
J1mCan someone point me to where?17:14
anguenotin the collector17:14
SteveAanguenot: i am here, but i am involved in meetings all day17:15
anguenotSteveA:no pb17:16
anguenotSteveA: we were just discussing your comment on the #28417:16
SteveAwhat's that?  the url errors?17:16
SteveAmy comment to phillip: i do not value consistency with Zope 2, where Zope 2 is wrong.17:18
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J1mI don't see a strong enough advantage of URLNotFound over NotFound to justify the name change.17:19
J1mAlso, keep in mind that the full name is zope.publisher.interfaces.NotFound, so it should be clear that this is specific to publishing.17:20
SteveAhow about a module called rfc261617:20
SteveAso, rfc2616.NotFound17:20
* SteveA runs and hides17:20
wiggyshouldn't one use URI instead of URL these days?17:24
SteveAdepends whether it is a location or an identifier that you are refering to17:27
gintashow is a locator different from an identifier?17:29
J1mI just updated 284.17:30
anguenotok just saw it17:31
anguenotThe trick is when for instance PrincipalLookupError inherits from NotFoundError17:31
anguenotIt needs to be replaced by KeyError and LookupError if we want it to be safe right ?17:32
anguenotI ment class PrincipalLookupError(KeyError, LookupError)17:32
J1mFor now, continue to inherit fron NotFoundError.17:32
J1mNot we will get rid of it in 3.3.17:33
J1mLet's see...17:33
anguenotI know17:33
philiKONanguenot, i think NotFoundError -> LookupError in all cases17:33
anguenotnope it's breaking sometime17:33
SteveAi think there's also a TraversalError17:34
SteveAfor NotFoundError during Traversal17:34
anguenotyup saw this one too17:34
SteveAiirc, this was changed a while ago to avoid confusion17:34
J1mhere's the deal:17:34
J1m- We convert the existing raises to use exceptions that *extend* NotFoundError.17:34
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J1m- We deprecate NotFoundError so that people get exceptions when they import it.17:35
J1m(We do some sort of trick to avoid the deprecation warnings in the few subclasses with loud comments warning people from copying the code.17:36
J1mWe convert exception cataching code to catch the appropriate specific exceptions.17:36
J1mWe convert exception catching code to catch the appropriate specific exceptions.17:36
J1mNobody should be raising or cathing LookupError.17:37
philiKONonly subclasses of LookupError, e.g. PrincipalLookupError, ComponentLookupError?17:37
J1mPeople should only get raise or catch KeyError if they are dealing with item lookup.17:37
anguenotsure but what if people are catching KeyError in their code. It should not break for them roght ?17:38
J1mphiliKON, what is your id?17:38
J1manguenot, right. Why would it?17:38
anguenotbecause they are catching NotFoundError17:39
SteveAthis gives me a direction to move exceptions in that direction for launchpad.17:39
philiKONJ1m, philikon17:39
SteveAthanks jim17:39
anguenotbecause NotFoundError inherits from KeyError17:39
anguenotI mean it would be a mistake if theu did this17:39
anguenotbut it will break17:39
philiKONwell, it'll break in zope 3.317:39
J1manguenot, unless they are doing item lookup, they should catch the more specific error appropriate for the thing they are doing, such as TraversalError.17:40
anguenotok I agree17:40
J1mAnd, as the doc string for NotFoundError indicates, people should not cound on keyError catching these exceptions in the future.17:41
anguenotI already started the deprecation. Is it ok if I'm finsishin it ?17:42
J1mof course17:42
J1mappreciated even. :)17:42
anguenotok then I'm in on this17:42
anguenotfor Steve's renaming should we fight ;)17:43
anguenot? :)17:43
J1mUnless Steve feels very very very strongly about it, we should just drop it.17:45
* J1m jin was slyly careful not to say SteveA, so he won't notice. 17:46
* J1m was slyly careful not to say SteveA, so he won't notice. 17:46
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SteveAi'm not passionate about the renaming.  i'm more interested in having a clear road ahead.17:55
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sureshvvHey... Have a question on mechtest19:45
sureshvvwould like to use that with zope219:45
srichterI have no clue how hard this would be19:48
srichteryou probably would have to write a a mechtest package for Zope 219:49
sureshvvu mean porting mechtest19:49
sureshvvi have used mechanize with zope219:49
philiKONwell, it'd probalby needs to be integrated into zopetestcase19:49
srichteras Jim pointed out; if functional tests don't work in Zope 2 via Five, then mechtest is useless there19:49
philiKONbut thena gain, i don't know mechtest nor mechanize at all19:49
sureshvvbut find mechtest a lot easier to use19:49
philiKONsrichter, z2 has functional tests, even dochttp tests19:50
philiKONall through zopetestcase19:50
srichterthen it should just work19:50
sureshvvbut does not come close to mechtest19:50
sureshvvthis thing is straight TTW19:50
srichterall what mechtest does is use the fdoctest HTTPCaller and wraps it19:50
sureshvvlike an end-user running it19:51
sureshvvi tried copying mechtest folder to python site-packages19:51
sureshvvor to ZopeX3.0 folder19:51
srichterno, you have to create a zc folder19:52
srichtermake it a package19:52
srichterand copy mechtest into it19:52
sureshvvzc under python site-packages?19:53
philiKONcd site-packages19:53
philiKONmkdir zc19:53
philiKONtouch __init__.py19:53
philiKONmv ../../...../mechtest .19:53
philiKONmkdir zc19:54
philiKONcd zc19:54
philiKONtouch __init__.py19:54
philiKONmv ../../...../mechtest .19:54
sureshvvgot it19:54
sureshvvJim had an msg on the list...19:54
sureshvvhe said it aint so simple19:55
srichterhe said it is not simpl, **if** fdoctests are not ported19:55
srichterbut they are19:55
sureshvvso i change "from import FunctionalDocFileSuite19:58
srichteryou have to play around a bit19:58
sureshvvto from Testing.ZopeTestCase import FunctionalDocFileSuite"?19:58
sureshvvthat is in ftests.py19:58 is sort of immaterial19:59
philiKONbecause the demo.txt doctest is geared towards z319:59
sureshvvi can change the demo.txt19:59
sureshvvlet us say we want to just login to a zope instance19:59
sureshvvI got it to say Browser() not defined20:04
sureshvvalthough the first failure is way down on line 18720:05
sureshvvkind of strange20:05
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sureshvvOK... we need HTTPCaller20:09
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sureshvvwhere can i get that?20:09
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philiKONsureshvv, did you read my email?20:09
sureshvvhold on20:10
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sureshvvphil... thanks for the tip20:11
sureshvvwill try right now20:11
sureshvvwould that be http() or just http20:12
philiKONjust http20:12
philiKONthis is just a guess, other things might fail because z3 response != z2 response20:13
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sureshvvAttributeError: class AbstractHTTPHandler has no attribute 'do_request_'20:16
sureshvvThey are defining an AbstractHTTPHandler20:16
sureshvv  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/zc/mechtest/", line 74, in ?20:18
sureshvv    class PublisherHandler(urllib2.HTTPHandler):20:18
sureshvv  File "/usr/lib/python2.3/site-packages/zc/mechtest/", line 79, in PublisherHandler20:18
sureshvv    http_request = urllib2.AbstractHTTPHandler.do_request_20:18
sureshvvAttributeError: class AbstractHTTPHandler has no attribute 'do_request_'20:18
sureshvvis that installing a custom handler for urllib2?20:19
sureshvvThanks phil...20:21
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