IRC log of #zope3-dev for Thursday, 2005-07-28

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philiKONsrichter, ayt?01:17
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philiKONJ1m, ayt?01:20
mpfirst (afaik) polish site about zope3 is now on-line ;)01:21
mpwish me luck :)01:21
* philiKON holds fingers crosses01:21
projekt01mp, does this site have a url?01:22
mp :)01:22
projekt01mp, is it done with z3?01:23
srichterI am right back01:24
MrTopftoo much polish for my 5 words of that language ;)01:24
mpyes, please don't hack it too fast ;)01:24
philiKONbig deal, so i'll hack it slowly :)01:24
projekt01It's cool, no problem the z3 server is very stable.01:24
MrTopfphiliKON:  yes, enjoy it ;-)01:24
mpwell, I'm quite surprised how fast it is01:25
projekt01it's cool, except that I don't understand polish ;-)01:25
mpwell, I did that by purpose01:25
mpso you can't laugh how stupid it is01:26
projekt01Yeah, z3 is very fast except you use the ZMI with all the container constraint lookup for each Add item.01:26
philiKONJ1m, i wrote you an email instead01:26
mpI hope to get some smart people involved, so they can write clever texts for me01:27
MrTopfmp: I will give it my girlfriend to read then, she will tell me :)01:27
MrTopfanyway, time for bed01:27
MrTopfgood night!01:28
mpgood night ;)01:28
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* J1m looks at philiKON's email ...01:34
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philiKONtagging x3.0.102:11
philiKONhold on to your butts!02:11
philiKONsrichter, as for 3.102:19
philiKONsrichter, we should call out for translators02:20
philiKONto translate zope.pot02:20
srichterGerman and Russian is in pretty good shape ;-)02:20
philiKONyeah :)02:20
philiKONsrichter, what's the current time frame estimate for 3.1?02:20
philiKONiow, how much time would translators have?02:21
srichter2-3 weeks02:22
srichterbut I am happy to do a quick 3.1.1 just for translations02:22
philiKONand other possible bugfixes02:22
philiKONshould i send a note out to people or do you wanna do it?02:22
philiKONsrichter, just to get things jumpstarted, could there be an un-bureaucratic way of gettings translations in?02:24
philiKONe.g. they mail em to the zope3-dev list and somebody from zc checks them in02:24
srichteryeah, I think that will be fine02:26
srichterfeel free to send the message02:26
srichterwe could put our POTs on Rosetta02:26
philiKONah, good idea02:26
srichterthen there is not discussion about checkin rights02:26
philiKONthat's actually an excellent idea02:26
philiKONis it online already? do you need a login to translate?02:27
philiKONand how easy is it to add Zope as a project there?02:27
srichterno clue02:28
srichterbut I am sure it can't be too hard02:28
philiKONi guess we should just be able to ping SteveA about it02:28
philiKONsrichter, so, there's which is a rosetta system for packages within ubuntu02:33
srichtermmh, there should be a general site02:33
srichterwhere SchoolTool is on as well02:33
srichteroh, that's the site02:34
srichterwe can set up our project thetre too02:34
philiKONzope is in ubuntu02:34
philiKONso we're lucky02:34
philiKONi'll try to set it up (if i can) so that ppl can use it02:34
srichterwell, launchpad is Zope 3, so we are fine ;-)02:35
srichteron the bottom is a registration link02:35
philiKONregistration link?02:36
philiKONsrichter, btw, there's no Zope.cfg in the X3.0 branch02:36
philiKONsrichter, do you remember the zpkg command line for x3.0?02:36
srichteroh, that's because it is online02:36
srichterin the old vversion you use the SVN-based CFG files02:36
srichterI can't remember how to do it02:36
srichterwe'll have to ask Fred02:36
philiKONis he online right now?02:37
philiKONor was it documented in the wiki page (i could go thru history)02:37
srichterit was on the same Wiki page02:40
srichterI just updated recently to the new way02:40
srichterI just started the registration process for the site02:44
philiKONsame here :)02:45
philiKONi actually have an accoutn now02:45
philiKONsrichter, are you going to setup z3 with the 3.1 accordingly or shall i do it?02:46
srichterfeel free to do it02:46
srichterI just want to have an account some way02:46
philiKONi'll set it up and let ppl know02:46
philiKONplone has a huge i18n community02:46
philiKONi think we can drain some volunteers from there :)02:46
anguenotThe X3.0.1 is intended to be shipped with Zope-2.x right ?02:47
anguenotbecause I might be interested about having the zope.deprecation module02:47
anguenotwithin the X3.0.102:48
anguenotfor being able to use it from Zope202:48
philiKONyes, it would be useful, but we can't just add a feature to x3.002:49
philiKONi hope that we can arrange that zope 2.9 ships with 3.1 or 3.202:49
anguenothum ok02:49
philiKONin the mean time, you can always install zope.deprecation yourself02:49
anguenotof course was just a thought02:49
philiKONyeah, i know, it's tempting02:50
philiKONbecause zope.deprecation is damn nice02:50
philiKONgood work on that, srichter  :)02:50
srichterI am glad you like it02:51
anguenotI think I'm gonna move the depreaction warnings of CPS on this component02:55
anguenotthat's why I tried to ask ;)02:55
srichtergreat! :-)02:55
anguenotI'm finishing the depreacation of NotFoundError and I've a question about the raises within the copypastemove component02:57
srichterok (I am not sure I can answer though)02:58
anguenotIt's currently raising NotFoundError when an item is renammed and not found in the container02:58
anguenotis the KeyError relevant instead ?02:58
srichterI think a key error is good03:00
anguenotok fine03:01
anguenotseems pretty logical :)03:01
philiKONsrichter, i think i figured it out03:03
philiKONat least zpkg is doing *something* now :)03:03
srichterI think from now on we keep the Wiki instructions for release separate for every major release03:04
philiKONwell, it could still be the same wiki page03:05
philiKONi will separate the wiki page into different sections03:05
philiKONa lot of the stuff is pretty general to every kind of release03:05
philiKONsrichter, once i upload the tarball, could you do the python register?03:13
philiKONi'm just doing a final check install from the tarball03:15
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philiKONsrichter, i updated
philiKONsrichter, i guess i should talk to jim before asking the rosetta guys to set up zope as a project03:37
philiKONthere might be issues that we're overseeing right now03:37
srichterok, I don't see which ones though03:38
philiKONdunno, legal ones for example03:38
philiKONwho will check in the translations?03:38
philiKONsome zc guy?03:38
srichterI am wondering what the legal status about translations is anyway03:39
srichterI guess if we tell translators that the translations are ZPL 2.1, it should be ok03:40
philiKONwell, i'll write that email tomorrow03:40
philiKONwanna get x3.0.1 out now03:40
philiKONuploading the tarball now03:40
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srichteryipee, it is even public03:53
philiKONis it?03:53
srichterno, the file is not03:54
philiKONi'll fix it03:54
srichterbut I am a power user for the products, so I can download it anyways03:55
philiKONsrichter, ok, the file should now be available to anonymous03:56
srichterok, I registered the file with PyPI03:56
philiKONsrichter, so, i mail tim about the windows package?03:57
anguenotgood night03:58
philiKONnight anguenot03:59
philiKONok, sent tim the mail03:59
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srichterok, testbrowser is fully tested now04:05
srichterI really love it04:05
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philiKONdamn that dsl line04:42
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bob2should this really be empty?
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bob2so, I have an adapter taht gets some usful info out of another object's annotations08:55
bob2sometimes I want the real value (a boolean), sometimes I want a textual representation of it ("Reviewed"/"Unreviewed")08:55
bob2do I want to indepdendent adapters?08:56
bob2or should the textual one adapt the boolean one?08:56
bob2(style-wise, both would work)08:56
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* philiKON wonders why is x3.0.1 announcement didn't come through zope-announce but andreas's zope 2.8.1beta1 announcement did11:05
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efgeQuick question about 3.0.1: has its ZODB been upgraded to the latest bugfix release too (I didn't see that in the release notes) ?13:20
srichterusually Tim switches to the latest release as soon as he publishes it; don't know whether he does it for the 3.0 branch too thought13:22
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efgeargh! ZODB doesn't appear to be stiched as an svn:externals in the ZopeX3-3.0 branch, it just a copy of an old release13:40
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mexiKONefge, yup15:55
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mexiKONefge, i didn't update the zodb15:57
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mexiKONefge, i guess we could update the zodb to the latest zodb 3.3.x release for zope x3 3.0.215:58
J1mYes, if there are any 3.3 updates.  I doubt that there are.16:01
efgemexiKON: yeah we can do an svn:externals like the rest, now we have clean tags on ZODB16:01
J1mNote that 3.0.1 will mainly be used with 2.8, which uses ZODB 3.4.16:02
mexiKONlike J1m says, if there actually *are* zodb updates16:02
efgeJ1m: ah yes I see your point, no updates are really needed then16:02
efgewell there's 3.3.116:03
mexiKONX3.0.1 has 3.316:04
mexiKONaccording to ZODB.__version__16:04
efgeaccording to svn log too :)16:04
mexiKONi would like to organize a x3.0.2 "bug" day in mid august or so16:04
efgebut indeed if we use it with Z2.8 we'll use ZODB 3.4 anyway16:04
mexiKONit's one issue we can bring up16:04
bob2hrm, I somehow screwed up my annotations handler such that they're not actually stored on zodb16:07
bob2and I had no tests to check16:07
bob2what does IAnnotations return if an object has no existing annotations?16:10
bob2ie should I make it a PersistentDict if it's not already?16:10
J1mIAnnotations always returns an annotations, even if the object doesn't have any annotations.16:11
J1m IAnnotations always returns an annotations, even if the object doesn't have any annotations.16:11
bob2where an annotation is a dict-like object?16:11
J1m(assumung that the object is annotatable)16:11
J1mWhete annotations is an object that provides IAnnotations.16:12
mexiKONbob2, yeah, dict like16:12
J1mThat interface defines what you can expect.16:12
mexiKONbob2, lookk at the interface in apidoc16:12
bob2is there any way to make pydoc work for interfaces?16:12
bob2its way quicker than the web stuff16:12
mgedminbob2, just use tags in a text editor; that's way faster16:15
bob2hm, yeah16:15
bob2ah, I see, it is dict-like16:15
bob2thanks, mgedmin, mexiKON and J1m16:16
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sureshvvDoes Five1.1b support set_schema in ZCML?17:02
sureshvv    TypeError: require() got an unexpected keyword argument 'set_schema'17:02
bob2hm, is it bad form to make all adapters that touch annotations trusted?17:03
sureshvv  File "/zope275/lib/python/AccessControl/", line 185, in apply17:04
sureshvv    dict['__ac_permissions__'] = tuple(__ac_permissions__)17:04
sureshvvzope.configuration.config.ConfigurationExecutionError: exceptions.TypeError: object does not support item assignment17:04
sureshvv  in:17:04
sureshvv  File "/zope275/Products/ZeSentinel/configure.zcml", line 6.2-9.217:04
sureshvv    <content class=".SentinelRule.SentinelRule">17:04
sureshvv      <require permission="zope2.View"17:04
sureshvv               interface=".IZeSentinel.IZeSentinelRule" />17:04
sureshvv    </content>17:04
sureshvvDoes this traceback make sense to anyone?17:04
bob2hm, if I wanted to implement something like apache-style-home-dirs (ie, traversal is what I'd need to look at?17:17
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sureshvvAnyone care to answer a Five question?18:28
sureshvv  File "/zope275/lib/python/AccessControl/", line 185, in apply18:31
sureshvv    dict['__ac_permissions__'] = tuple(__ac_permissions__)18:31
sureshvvzope.configuration.config.ConfigurationExecutionError: exceptions.TypeError: object does not support item assignment18:31
sureshvv  in:18:31
sureshvv  File "/zope275/Products/ZeSentinel/configure.zcml", line 6.2-9.218:31
sureshvv    <content class=".SentinelRule.SentinelRule">18:31
sureshvv      <require permission="zope2.View"18:31
sureshvv               interface=".IZeSentinel.IZeSentinelRule" />18:31
sureshvv    </content>18:31
sureshvvwhy am i getting this?18:31
sureshvvFive 1.1b18:31
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SteveAsureshvv: that looks so weird18:45
SteveAyou can't set items on the 'dict' type object18:45
SteveAyou can set items on an instance of a dict, such as {}18:46
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sureshvvSteveA... can dict be a variable?18:54
SteveAit can18:54
SteveAbut it isn't a very sensible name for a variable18:54
sureshvvIt is in SecurityInfo.py18:56
efgesome classes with slots have an non-writable __dict__, no ?18:56
sureshvvdict = classobj.__dict__18:57
sureshvvSo expects to be able to write to the __dict__18:57
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sureshvvefge: i think you are on to something19:03
sureshvv    TypeError: ('Incompatible metatypes', (<type 'object'>, <extension class OFS.SimpleItem.SimpleItem at f68723e0>))19:06
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sureshvvAre OFS.SimpleItem and object incompatible?19:17
sureshvvam i out of luck if i want to use properties and keep the object in zodb?19:20
J1mNot in Zope 2.8.19:21
J1mIn Zope 2.8, SimpleItem is a subclass of object.19:21
J1mas are all extension classes19:22
sureshvvwell... i have to be compatible with Zope2.7 now19:22
sureshvvso i guess i am out of luck19:22
sureshvvdo <content... classes have to inherit from SimpleItem?19:23
J1mNo, but if you want them to be persistent, they have to be extension classes.19:24
J1m(and you have to implement all or most of the frameworks provided by SimpleItem.19:24
sureshvvCan I have them not persistent and still be able to use browser:addform and browser:editform?19:25
sureshvvit looks like requiring a permission on them fails if they do not inherit from SimpleIte,19:26
J1mYou could probably get around this if you worked really really really hard.19:26
J1mBottom line: you are out of luck.19:27
J1m(You are also on the wrong irc channel. ;)19:27
sureshvvI guess i should chuck all this and move to zope3 ;)19:27
J1mor at least 2.8.19:27
sureshvvthanks jim... i am trying all the channels for help19:28
sureshvvgood to get it from the horse's mouth here :)19:28
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Theunii'm surprised by the state of the bugs that shall be solved20:56
Theunithere isn't even a proposed solution for 30220:56
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Theunitoo bad everything else is currently way to far behind my horizon20:59
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J1mThere are lots of proposals for 302.21:02
J1mSome are even partially implemented.21:02
J1mPlus, as a bonus, we'll want to redo files for blobs anyway.21:03
J1mSo I don't think we want to do anything major now.21:03
J1mwe do need to come up with something.21:03
J1mToo bad you didn't finish that last year.21:04
J1mTheuni, at this point, I'm inclined to wedge charset into the content type and just get the encoding dance right.21:05
J1mUntil we redo files with blobs.21:05
Theunithe proposals just aren't attached to the bug itself.21:06
Theuniencoding dance21:07
Theunias it is a file it should natively be stored as binary data anyway, am i wrong?21:07
Theuniso it should be just about display anyway ...21:07
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J1mIt's about allowing text editing.21:26
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sureshvvnewbie question21:36
sureshvvi am doing http://localhost/folder1/+/my.type1 and it gives a site error - Cant locate object...21:36
sureshvvany idea how to debug this?21:37
mgedminlook at the traceback in the log file21:37
sureshvvnothing in the log file21:37
mgedminor go to ++etc++site and look within the error reporting utility21:37
sureshvvActually I am using Zope2.7 and Five21:40
sureshvvIt works with another type... /+/sfive.Presentation21:40
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srichterwould anyone here be interested in a backport of testbrowser to Zope 3.1 and Python 2.3?21:56
J1mas an add-on package?21:57
J1mIt's too late to add new features21:57
J1mBenji and I discussed moving it to zope.testbrowser to make it easier to use in 3.1 apps.21:58
SteveAstub recently found out that the python 2.4 builtin set and frozenset types do not have security declarations in zope/security/checkers.py21:59
SteveAi've suggested to include these in there, with a try:except NameError, so it still works with python 2.321:59
SteveAany idea when zope3 will require python 2.4 ?21:59
J1mI've heard a rumor that browsertest requires 2.4, so that would imply that 3.2 will require it.22:02
J1m+1 for the try:except:22:02
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mgedminsrichter, I think I would be interested in that22:05
mgedminwhere do python2.4 requirements come from?22:05
J1mask benji_york, but he's busy atm.22:05
srichter@property and @apply22:06
J1myou mean decorators22:06
srichterJ1m: yes, definitely as addon22:06
srichterin fact it would be a top-level package for 3.122:07
srichteryes, or can I distribute it in a sane way that would place it in
srichter(this way tests would need no change when going from 3.1 to 3.2)22:08
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J1mzope is a container package22:11 is, barrely22:11 is definately a stretch.22:11
srichterthat's where we have it now on the branch22:12
J1mI know22:12
srichterso you challenge the decision22:12
J1mI think it would be more convenient to have it higher up.22:12
srichterwell, it is really only useful for testing22:12
srichtermmh, let me see whether it must depend on, otherwise zope might be ok22:13
srichteroh, it depends on
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srichterbtw, do you suggest that it should move for 3.2 into and zope too?22:15
srichterI guess the question is whether the testbrowser code is useful outside a testing environment22:15
srichterif not, it is simply test support code, which should be in
J1mBut just because it's useful for testing doesn't mean it *has* to go in
srichterI think it is just the Prussian in me (as philiKON would say now)22:16
J1mI think knitting it into a 3.1 site will be rather messy if it's in
srichterthat's what I thought too22:17
J1mSo I suggest:22:17
J1m- not trying to use it w 3.122:17
J1m- put it somewhere else22:17
srichterI would say (1), but then people would have to wait a while :-)22:18
srichterI ponder it and make a decision tonight22:18
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benji_yorkI propose that we move testbrowser out of regardless of the other issues in anticipation of Jim's desire to see shrink in the future.22:25
srichterbenji_york: do you want it to go to zope.testbrowser or
srichtercurrently there is an expectation that nothing outside depends on (other than a few application-like packages such as bugtracker and zwiki)22:27
J1mI'd like to get away from that.22:31
benji_yorkI would prefer to put it in zope22:31
srichterok, let's do that then22:32
J1mNote, for example, that zope.formlib depends on
benji_yorkI'd also like a slightly better name, if we're moving it again, but noone can come up with one22:32
J1mI think things are getting mature enough that we can start talking about "core" vs non-core.22:32
srichterthis way it will be easy to move the backport to the trunk now, because testbrowser is not listed as one pf the packages to include in the distribution22:32
J1mI like testbrowser.22:33
benji_yorkyou would22:33
* benji_york smiles at Jim laughing22:33
* srichter notes that benji seems to like funky names ;-)22:33
* benji_york laughs out loud22:34
* J1m restrains himself22:34
* benji_york has a funny name22:34
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benji_yorkfdrake just comes here for the humor22:36
fdrakebut of course!22:37
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projekt01Why does the NotFoundError change to ItemNotFoundError?23:17
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J1mdoes it?23:22
J1mhm, I suppose it does, in part ...23:22
projekt01The doctest returns now ItemNotFoundError and before NotFoundError with the following:23:23
projekt01>>> renamer.renameItem('foo', 'bar')23:23
J1mWe want to get rid of NotFoundError.23:23
projekt01What's the replacement?23:24
J1mBecause it was too general and easily confused with NotFound.23:24
J1mWe will eventually get rid of NotFoundError.23:24
J1mIt looks like ItemNotFoundError really wants to be KeyError.23:25
J1mBut it can't, for backward compatibility.23:25
J1mI can see how this is a problem for doc tests.23:25
J1mIt would be nice if doctests had something like "assertRaises", fo rcases like this.23:26
projekt01It's no problem, I just have to fix the doctests, but sometimes it's better to understand what's happen.23:27
projekt01Whould be nice to see proposals for this in the after 3.1 release.23:27
J1mIt is a problem because you have to modify the doctest.23:27
projekt01Otherwise we don't have changes to understand the reasons sometime.23:28
J1mThis was done as part of a bug fix.  It was thought to be very low impact.23:28
J1mWe didn't consider the impact on doctests.23:28
projekt01It's not in the z3 trunk code it's in our code.23:29
J1mOh, I realize that.23:30
projekt01We inherit from the ObjectMover and use a own ProxyAwareObjectMover, perhaps we should move such stuff to the trunk.23:31
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J1mWe would have caught it then, but a more basic issue is the brittleness of doctests in a case like this.23:32
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projekt01I see23:33
J1mWe were being careful to make a backward compatible change, but it wasn't backward compatible wrt doc tests.23:34
J1mI need to ponder this.23:34
projekt01You have no chance to be backward compatible, we inherited from ObjectMover and copy/pasted the doctest from ObjectMover23:36
projekt01there is the method NotFoundError used23:36
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