IRC log of #zope3-dev for Monday, 2005-08-15

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roym`ok - found an example in stephan's book that uses 2 distinct views00:16
roym`for this type of problem - one to handle the submission and another to00:16
roym`handle the rendering (via template). works nicely!00:16
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ChrisWanyone here?11:16
bob230 people are11:17
ChrisWi have a crap irc client11:18
ChrisWyou're allvery quiet!11:19
ChrisWworking through stephan's book11:19
ChrisWwhere's wiki now?11:19 has the link in the left colum11:19
ChrisWno, the wiki product11:20
ChrisWthe one referred to in the book...11:20
bob2oh, zwiki11:20
bob2it's in svn11:20
ChrisWyes, i gathered, where?11:20
bob2and presumably linked from the zope3 product page11:20
bob2it's in the default zope3 checkout11:20
ChrisWheh, i'll try updating my checkout...11:21
* MJ has it as svn+ssh://
MJAs I checked out svn+ssh://
MJThat means I have it on my disk as Zope3/src/zwiki11:24
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andrew_mwith what should i replace 'NotFoundError' in the latest zope? seems to be deprecated16:32
andrew_mbut can't figure out what zapi.traverse() now throws..16:33
srichterKeyError or something more specific16:33
andrew_mah.. TraversalError.. what makes that a 'standard exception'?16:40
andrew_mthe warning was: "DeprecationWarning: NotFoundError: This class has been deprecated. Use standard exceptions instead"16:40
srichterTraversalError is probably a subclass of KeyError16:40
srichterwhich I guess is considered a standard error16:41
andrew_maha.. ok, thanks16:41
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mexiKONandrew_m, when catching sometwhing from zapi.traverse, catch TraversalError17:21
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andrew_mphiliKON: thanks, yeah, i'll do that now17:24
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fdrakeSo who's "hdima" in Subversion?18:16
srichterDimitry Vasiliev18:16
srichterhe is also hdima on IRC18:16
fdrakeok, cool18:16
fdrakelooks like he's not here now18:17
srichterno, he is only here in the morning for a short time; usually does not stay online for long18:17
fdrakeI wanted to ask him about a TODO in the TALInterpreter code18:17
srichterI think sending him an E-mail will be most productive18:17
fdrakeok; I'll send him an email18:17
fdrakeya, what you said18:17
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lunarosityIf I am writing a content object that stores its data in a relational database, I don't understand how i would use access the zope database adapter in the content object's code19:58
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philiKONlunarosity, database adapter are utilities20:25
lunarosityso then, would the actual ZSQL method for writing or retreiving dating reside within the filesystem content object code?20:32
mgedminsome people use SQLObject for this purpose, successfully20:34
roymI looked into sqlos, but couldn't get it working w/the main z3 branch.20:35
lunarositymgedmin: hmm. SQLObject seems pretty neat. You don't happen to know of any open source software that uses it successfully in zope3?20:37
philiKONlunarosity, SIP uses sqlos in zope x3 3.020:37
philiKONroym, contributions to sqlos are welcome :)20:38
philiKONroym, if you got questions, talk to sidnei on #z3-base20:38
roymphiliKON, I did contact sidnei, and he had hinted at how to solve the issue.20:40
lunarosityphiliKON -- I can't seem to find source for SIP online20:40
roymI just haven't had the time to go deeper.20:40
roymQuick question on what seems to be a security issue:20:40
roymI have an adapter class for my custom folder (derived from20:40
roymBTreeContainer). In the view code for an adapter method, I find that I20:40
roymcannot access the items() method of the folder object20:40
roym(self.context.items()) - I get the following:20:40
roym >    return self.context.items()20:40
roym > ForbiddenAttribute: ('__getitem__', <OOBTreeItems object...20:40
roymCan someone enlighten me as to why.. I see in philipp's book that you20:40
roymgenerally need to say trusted="true" in an adapter for this sort of20:40
lunarosityphiliKon -- Incidentally, your book isn't in stock at any local borders or barnes and noble.20:41
roymproblem, but I then get other errors when I do so.20:41
philiKONroym, this is a special case20:42
philiKONroym, I think OOBTreeItems should be allowed by default20:42
philiKONis this in a unit test?20:42
roymno - actually my intent is to access the elements of a folder by index.20:43
roymMy adapter is an iterator20:43
philiKONnote that by default containers aren't ordered20:44
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roymI don't need to worry about the ordering - as long as the items are returned20:44
roymconsistently - will this be the case always?20:45
philiKONii wouldn't count on it20:45
roymaha. anyway, can you pls explain why this is a "special case"?20:46
roymif its not too involved.20:46
philiKONwell, i think you've stumbled upon a bug in zoep 3 that has been talkeda bout before20:47
philiKONi *think* that *BTreeItems should be allowed by default20:47
roymok - thanks...20:47
philiKONproblem is that the *BTreeItems classes aren't exposed through an importable location20:48
philiKONwhich is probably why they aren't protected through zcml  yet20:49
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philiKONi suggest filing a bug report; someone smarter than me will know the answer20:49
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roymphiliKON: will do..20:52
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lunarositymgedmin, philiKON: thanks a lot for sqlos and sip. This is exactly what I need.21:28
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lunarosityI never was too clear on this for zope2, and i'm just as unsure in zope3. How would you utilize zopes security permissions to create a system where thousands of users could give any number of the other users varying permissions on any instance of a content object that they owned?21:48
srichteryou can grant permissions and roles locally to users or other roles21:50
srichtersee the grant view21:50 and have README.txt files as well21:51
lunarosityhow well does zope hold up when there are hundreds or thousands of local roles on each object?21:51
lunarositybtw, thanks for the zope3 documentation.21:51
srichterI dunno, but I would say that you have an insane security policy21:52
lunarosityi'm a big fan the zope3 developrs book21:52
srichterprobably something in your security design is not done right21:52
lunarosityfan of*21:52
lunarositywell, basically every user has a profile object with information like their first and last name. I want to make it so only people they put on some sort of a-list are able to access their first and last name.21:53
lunarositybut it may be that they want one to make a different set of permissions for who can see their email address21:54
srichterif you have 100k+ permissions that means you have in the order of 100k+ unique content types (I doubt that)21:54
lunarosityhmm. "I doubt that" is a fairly weak statement. I definitely don't have 100k unique content types.21:54
srichterso, you create a permission: viewPersonName21:55
lunarosityI'm with you so far21:55
srichterand everyone who can see a person's name gets locally the permission viewPersonName assigned to him-/herself21:56
lunarosityhold on, i'm a little unsure of the pronouns here,21:56
lunarositythere is a user object called usera, associated with usera21:57
lunarositythere is the permission viewPersonName for a user object21:57
srichteryou have a User class21:57
lunarosityso then usera can locally grant userb the permission viewPersonName on the usera object21:57
lunarosityright, i meant that21:58
srichteryou declare that you need permission "viewUserName" is required to see User.firstName and User.lastName21:58
lunarosityusera can locally grant userb the permission viewPerson name on the usera instance of the User class.21:58
srichteron a specific User instance, let's call it usera, you can say that principal P1 is granted the permission "viewUserName"21:59
srichterthis permission will only have affect inside usera and its subobjects21:59
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lunarosityI guess then my only question is, how does zope hold up when there are 100k different principal / permission combinations?22:01
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lunarosityor even a hundred million22:03
srichterit a btree container; if you have the hardwar it will hold the same way it can hold a huge amount of documents22:04
srichternote that all those permission settings are local and you look only at one object at a time22:05
srichterit is also very unlikely, that a user allows 100k+ other individuals (manually) to see his/her info22:06
lunarosityTrue, until you start creating Group classes and the like22:06
lunarosityhmm, that brings up another question22:06
srichterno, then you assign a permission to a group22:06
srichternot indivdual users22:06
srichtergroups are principals like users are22:07
srichterusers inherit the permissions of their group22:07
srichterusers inherit the permissions of their groups22:07
lunarosityok, that makes sense22:07
lunarositywhats the name of the class I should inherit from that represents a group in zope?22:08
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srichtersee's TXT files22:09
lunarositythank you22:09
srichteralso, the SchoolTool project has a fairly sophisticated security setup that deals with groups and the like22:10
lunarosityI didn't look much at security in the SchoolTool project, though I've been looking at their calendaring system in School Bell22:10
lunarosityI'll take another look22:10
lunarosityon a side note, I haven't seen philiKON's book yet. How does it relate to yours? Do you think its just more of the same material?22:11
lunarosityI've got my finger hovering near the purchase button on amazon,22:11
lunarositybut i don't want to pay for something that I basically already have22:11
srichterit is a bit different22:12
srichterit's a bit more gentle to Zope 2 switchers22:12
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* genconc is away: gone home22:31
philiKONlunarosity, my book is targetted towards beginners22:32
benji_yorklanarosity, I will note that having both available has been handy around here22:33
philiKONi've heard that from other people too :)22:34
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MJHmmm, can't find much info on schema sources yet22:37
MJIt may impact my work, any info available on or elsewhere how sources are to be used and provided?22:38
philiKONschema sources?22:39
MJrumored to replace vocabularies.22:41
MJSo, wrong wording there22:41
MJschema.interfaces.ISource and pals22:41
philiKONah, sources22:44
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philiKONi was thrown off by "schema sources"22:44
philiKON(sounds like a source of schemas)22:44
* MJ realized that22:44
philiKONsources and vocabularies are pretty much the same22:44
philiKONsources just make fewer assumptions on the source of data22:45
MJthere's a big TODO marker there in the interfaces file22:45
MJAnd the ISourceQueriables interface is somewhat obtuse in making it's purpose clear22:46
MJI was assuming there to be a document somewhere discussing the envisioned changes or something..22:46
philiKONi don't think we have yet figured out how sources should look like22:47
philiKONthey were just roughly introduced for PAU22:47
MJI prolly need to do something similar since I will be adapting principles22:48
MJAnd will need to provide similar functionality22:48
MJ(listing in a UI and all22:48
MJI perhaps painted myself into a corner by describing a mapping-like interface that promises to be able to list all its contents22:50
MJWhen those contents are adapted principals22:50
MJfrom a source that cannot give me all available principals in the first place22:50
MJI have a small problem...22:50
philiKONsounds like it :)22:52
MJHmm, a downgrade to IReadMapping should suffice.22:53
* MJ makes it so22:53
philiKONhehe. that reminds me. we have a math prof here in dresden named picard (a name quite famous in math, but that's a different Picard). anyway, we call him Jean-Luc *grin*22:54
MJSo now my domains are no longer enumerable.22:56
* MJ adds an explicit enumerable variety22:57
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lunarosityphiliKON -- Any preferred online location that I should buy your book from?23:17
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philiKONlunarosity, follow the amazon link on
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