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| ksmith99 | hi all, to institute a site-based blogger-api, should that be an ILocalUtility? | 02:02 |
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| srichter | projekt01: security should work on objects that are wrapped with locate as well | 02:27 |
| srichter | ksmith99: blogs feel more like content to me | 02:28 |
| projekt01 | srichter, I have a use case where it doesn't work. I locate the object as a child of a view. Hope to find some time to write simply setup to reproduce it. | 02:29 |
| srichter | projekt01: that would be good | 02:30 |
| srichter | Claudia is about to answer your E-mail :-) | 02:30 |
| projekt01 | srichter, cool ... no even the manager where have all permissions can access the object (ForbidenAttribute) | 02:30 |
| srichter | :-( | 02:30 |
| projekt01 | perhaps we can take a look at this at the sprint | 02:31 |
| srichter | yeah | 02:31 |
| projekt01 | I plan to write a simply API for reporting security, perhaps I will also add a view which reports this part. | 02:32 |
| ksmith99 | srichter: thanks, i was thinking more of a site-based xmlrpc method, of which there should be only one | 02:53 |
| srichter | projekt01: that would be fantasticö ST has certainlz a need for such a tool as well | 04:00 |
| srichter | ksmith99: what will this method do_ | 04:00 |
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| ksmith99 | srichter: add content..such as a blog entry using a client program | 04:53 |
| ksmith99 | the other use case I was considering is PayPal IPN, they send a request to the server that tells the status of a payment | 04:54 |
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| MrTopf | Tag | 10:38 |
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| philiKON | MrTopf, tach | 10:39 |
| MrTopf | Hi philiKON | 10:42 |
| MrTopf | everything fine? | 10:42 |
| philiKON | yup | 10:43 |
| philiKON | MrTopf, have you tried zope 2.8 recently on your mac? | 10:44 |
| philiKON | it's starting up sloooooow | 10:44 |
| MrTopf | Hm, I think so.. but long ago.. | 10:45 |
| MrTopf | so cannot remember the difference anymore ;-) | 10:46 |
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| yotaff | anguenot: ping | 16:41 |
| yotaff | srichter: ping | 16:41 |
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| srichter | yotaff: pong | 16:49 |
| yotaff | srichter: I'am translating zope3 | 16:50 |
| srichter | cool! | 16:51 |
| yotaff | dumb question : Specific Required Interface Adapters (specific = adapters, required = interface) | 16:51 |
| yotaff | ? | 16:52 |
| srichter | ok, I am not sure what the stuff in the parenthesis is, but I know the term, since I created it :-) | 16:53 |
| yotaff | ahah | 16:53 |
| srichter | let's say you have: | 16:53 |
| srichter | class I1(Interface): pass | 16:53 |
| srichter | class I2(I1): pass | 16:54 |
| yotaff | what is specific and what is required ? | 16:54 |
| srichter | class O2: | 16:54 |
| srichter | implements(I2) | 16:54 |
| srichter | and you register | 16:54 |
| srichter | component.provideAdapter(I2, A2) | 16:54 |
| srichter | component.provideAdapter(I1, A1) | 16:55 |
| srichter | component.provideAdapter(Interface, A0) | 16:55 |
| srichter | A2 is a specific adapter and I2 is the required interface | 16:55 |
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| srichter | A0 is a generic adapter where Interface is the required interface | 16:56 |
| srichter | look at the APIdoc documentation for a class or interface and it will make sense | 16:57 |
| yotaff | so i can translate like this : specific adapters with required interfaces ? | 17:00 |
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| srichter | Specific Adapter with Required Interface | 17:01 |
| srichter | use singular for interface | 17:01 |
| srichter | because you are looking for adapters where the viewed interface is required | 17:02 |
| yotaff | oki | 17:02 |
| yotaff | thx | 17:02 |
| mexiKON | yotaff, srichter, out of curiosity, what is the original message? | 17:02 |
| srichter | Specific Required Interface Adapters | 17:03 |
| mexiKON | uh | 17:03 |
| mexiKON | why doesn't it read "Specific Adapter with Required Interface", if that's what you suggest to translate it as? | 17:03 |
| mexiKON | we really need better original english messages | 17:03 |
| mexiKON | i've come across quite a lot of these cryptic names | 17:03 |
| srichter | feel free to find better ones | 17:04 |
| srichter | we have not formed terminology for many of those things | 17:04 |
| yotaff | mexiKON: yes it's hard :] | 17:04 |
| mexiKON | you don't always need a formalized terminology | 17:04 |
| mexiKON | common sense helps a lot | 17:04 |
| mexiKON | :) | 17:04 |
| mexiKON | it's not always about translation, but it's good to think about it. if you think that the term you've created is understandable to a translator, chances are good that the term is easy enough to be understood by everyone | 17:05 |
| mexiKON | i for one, have trouble with "Specific Required Interface Adapters" myself | 17:05 |
| srichter | I don't :-) | 17:06 |
| mexiKON | because you wrote it :) | 17:06 |
| srichter | it's also much clearer in the context | 17:06 |
| mexiKON | and know exactly what it means | 17:06 |
| mexiKON | or, rather, what you meant | 17:06 |
| srichter | out of context many things don't make sense | 17:06 |
| srichter | for example: "I am spitting out code really fast." :-) | 17:06 |
| yotaff | the problem is (for me) that messages are without context. You need to develop for understand | 17:06 |
| mexiKON | i think a lot of that out-of-context problem can be solved by messages that are just a little bit more descriptive | 17:07 |
| yotaff | mexiKON: I agree | 17:07 |
| mexiKON | no need to be overly verbose, but it can't hurt to write 2 more words, like a preposition, that clarifies meaning | 17:08 |
| mexiKON | "Specific Required Interface Adapters" is a great example for such a case, i think | 17:08 |
| srichter | yotaff: we try to provide file line numbers as hint | 17:08 |
| yotaff | srichter: po file give already the line. but for the example above, it's the title of a method | 17:10 |
| srichter | I am surprised you are asked to translate this | 17:10 |
| yotaff | why ? | 17:11 |
| srichter | ok, then the () make more sense | 17:11 |
| srichter | why do we translate method titles? | 17:11 |
| yotaff | because it's in the po file | 17:11 |
| srichter | :-) | 17:12 |
| srichter | but I wonder why it is picked up | 17:12 |
| yotaff | pick up ? You mean why the title method is in po file ? | 17:14 |
| srichter | yes | 17:14 |
| srichter | so we run this extraction tool that uses hints to pick up messages and put it in the POT | 17:15 |
| srichter | so I am wondering why the extraction tool found it | 17:15 |
| yotaff | title=_("Specific Required Interface Adapters"), | 17:16 |
| yotaff | in src/zope/app/apidoc/ifacemodule/interfaces.py | 17:16 |
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| srichter | ok, that makes perfectly sense | 17:22 |
| srichter | I know exactely where this is coming from | 17:22 |
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| yotaff | I do not doubt that makes sense stephan, but when you must translate 1300 msgstr without deeper knowledge of Zope3, it's more difficult ;) | 17:24 |
| mexiKON | yotaff, don't worry, even i don't understand what "Specific Required Interface Adapters" means (and i'm too lazy to read stephan's explanation above ;)) | 17:25 |
| srichter | yotaff: I know, translating deep technical stuff is hard | 17:27 |
| srichter | As I said I am open to better terms | 17:27 |
| srichter | trust me, it took me a very long time to even come up with those | 17:27 |
| srichter | it is not particularly easy to explain | 17:27 |
| yotaff | bad concept, change concept ;=== | 17:28 |
| yotaff | s/;===/;))) | 17:28 |
| srichter | I would even be open to use the terminology: Primary|Secondary|Tertiary Adapter | 17:28 |
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| mexiKON | srichter, the self-extractable .exe installers you get for windows... are those made by distutils (iow, all you need is a setup.py?)? | 18:01 |
| srichter | ask tim :-) | 18:02 |
| mexiKON | i should google first before asking dumb questions :) | 18:03 |
| mexiKON | http://www.python.org/doc/2.4.1/dist/postinstallation-script.html | 18:03 |
| yotaff | another question : what is credential ? synonym of permission ? | 18:36 |
| yotaff | hum, and we need a definition for principal | 18:39 |
| yotaff | outch "A Pluggable Authentication Persistent Authentication Plugin" | 18:42 |
| yotaff | srichter: "a pluggable authentification with persistent authentification plugin" is ok for you ? | 18:43 |
| yotaff | hum, no : persistent authentification plugin with pluggable authentification | 18:44 |
| mexiKON | yotaff, nope | 18:46 |
| mexiKON | yotaff, it's an authentication plugin | 18:46 |
| mexiKON | and it's pluggable | 18:46 |
| mexiKON | err, no | 18:46 |
| yotaff | yotaff> hum, no : persistent authentification plugin with pluggable authentification | 18:46 |
| mexiKON | let's take it back | 18:46 |
| mexiKON | it's a plugin for pluggable authentication | 18:46 |
| mexiKON | a persistent plugin | 18:46 |
| yotaff | we are ok | 18:47 |
| mexiKON | a persistent authentication plugin actually | 18:47 |
| mexiKON | so, a persistent authentication plugin for pluggable authentification | 18:47 |
| mexiKON | :) | 18:47 |
| mexiKON | these english strings really need to be revised | 18:47 |
| yotaff | I need 2 definition : principal & credentiel | 18:48 |
| yotaff | credential sorry | 18:48 |
| yotaff | principal = user ? member ? other ? | 18:48 |
| SteveA | other | 18:49 |
| SteveA | a principal is the representation inside Zope of the thing that is connecting to the Zope server | 18:49 |
| SteveA | a credential something that the Zope server uses to decide which principal is connecting | 18:50 |
| SteveA | it's like being at a company, and being the person who answers the phone | 18:51 |
| SteveA | let's say you have caller-id | 18:51 |
| SteveA | and someone from another company you do business with phones up | 18:51 |
| SteveA | you can tell that it is someone from that company by the caller-id | 18:51 |
| SteveA | that's a credential | 18:51 |
| SteveA | (maybe not a particularly good one, but it still is one) | 18:51 |
| mexiKON | yotaff, credential is something believable that authenticates a person | 18:51 |
| mexiKON | yotaff, in real life, it would be an ID card or a driver's license, for example | 18:52 |
| SteveA | maybe you don't care who at the company is calling, it is just the fact that it is that company contacting you that is important to you | 18:52 |
| SteveA | so your knowledge of that company is the principal. however your company indexes the sum of records and information about that other company | 18:52 |
| SteveA | that's the principal. the index to that information. and the fact that it is a phonecall | 18:53 |
| SteveA | and not a personal visit or a letter or a fax | 18:53 |
| SteveA | (as personal visits and letters and faxes and emails, and uses of the web application, each of these would have a different principal.) | 18:53 |
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| SteveA | and different kinds of credentials | 18:53 |
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| yotaff | hum, complicated | 18:55 |
| drzoltron_ | srichter: ayt ? | 18:55 |
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| mexiKON | yotaff, it's not that hard. imagine a person has to authenticate | 18:56 |
| mexiKON | that person could use different methods to make believe that it is really him | 18:56 |
| yotaff | mexiKON: what is the term used in german translation ? | 18:56 |
| mexiKON | - a passport | 18:56 |
| mexiKON | - finger print | 18:56 |
| mexiKON | - password | 18:56 |
| mexiKON | - ... | 18:56 |
| mexiKON | all those are credentials | 18:56 |
| mexiKON | not sure what we use in the german translation | 18:57 |
| mexiKON | i think we use something that is equivalent to "login information" | 18:57 |
| yotaff | oki so credential = method of authentification ? | 18:57 |
| drzoltron_ | mexiKON: Einloggungsinformation ? ;) | 18:57 |
| * srichter pukes ;-) | 18:58 | |
| mexiKON | drzoltron_, anmelde informationen | 18:58 |
| mexiKON | einloggen ist kein deutsches wort | 18:58 |
| drzoltron_ | schade ! | 18:58 |
| mexiKON | yotaff, credentials aren't a method, they're data | 18:58 |
| yotaff | principal = all credentials of a user ? | 18:58 |
| mexiKON | they're authentication data (e.g. a password is data) | 18:58 |
| SteveA | this is difficult because "principal" and "credential" are abstract ideas | 18:58 |
| mexiKON | yup | 18:59 |
| yotaff | I think i will use english terms | 18:59 |
| mexiKON | yotaff, a principal is a essentially a user | 18:59 |
| SteveA | i'd say "a user connecting in a particular way" | 18:59 |
| mexiKON | SteveA, btw, i really wish we had named it participant, not principal | 18:59 |
| SteveA | as in my example of phoning, faxing, emailing, calling in person | 18:59 |
| yotaff | SteveA: yes, it is. In french, it's difficult to "invent" a term like english | 18:59 |
| mexiKON | to go in line with participation | 18:59 |
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| mexiKON | srichter, anmeldeinfomrationen is the word Microsoft uses to translate login credentials | 19:00 |
| mexiKON | i'm not saying they're always right, but.... | 19:00 |
| srichter | that's pretty good | 19:00 |
| drzoltron_ | srichter: finished with puking ? Raead | 19:00 |
| SteveA | "participation" is interesting | 19:01 |
| SteveA | "participant" is interesting | 19:01 |
| mexiKON | much easier to translate | 19:01 |
| mexiKON | and to grok | 19:01 |
| drzoltron_ | Read your postings on zope3-dev-.. about an ODBC adapter | 19:01 |
| drzoltron_ | I will try to integrate mxODBC into a zope DA, would that be of interest ? | 19:01 |
| SteveA | mexiKON: suggest the change on the mailing list perhaps | 19:02 |
| SteveA | i'm at least +0 on it | 19:02 |
| mexiKON | ook | 19:02 |
| * mexiKON writes an email right away | 19:02 | |
| srichter | drzoltron_: I think it would make several people happy | 19:03 |
| drzoltron_ | srichter: mxODBC is not open source but anyhow it's the only alternative right now | 19:03 |
| drzoltron_ | I am quite a newbee at Z3 development so I would be more than happy if somebody could test my code a bit etc | 19:04 |
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| yotaff | "Browser Form Challenger" | 19:37 |
| yotaff | challenger ? | 19:37 |
| efge | "prove me who you are", as in login form | 19:38 |
| mexiKON | yotaff, "I challenge you to a duell" said the challenger :) | 19:39 |
| mexiKON | s/duell/duel/ | 19:41 |
| drzoltron_ | sounds like a rocket | 19:41 |
| mexiKON | hah | 19:41 |
| mexiKON | right | 19:42 |
| mexiKON | it's a NASA space shuttle | 19:42 |
| mexiKON | yotaff, SteveA, btw, sent the email about participant | 19:42 |
| SteveA | cool | 19:42 |
| drzoltron_ | zope challenger | 19:42 |
| drzoltron_ | now with heat shield | 19:42 |
| yotaff | mexiKON: I have sent a mail about all difficult words | 19:43 |
| mgedmin | svn info | 19:43 |
| mgedmin | oops | 19:43 |
| mgedmin | not a password this time ;) | 19:44 |
| drzoltron_ | Path: . | 19:44 |
| drzoltron_ | URL: svn://svn.tiks.org/repos/Tiks/trunk/src/tiks | 19:44 |
| drzoltron_ | Repository UUID: 29e5e65d-b4a6-764d-84b6-e2368af7f8f6 | 19:44 |
| drzoltron_ | Revision: 2910 | 19:44 |
| drzoltron_ | Node Kind: directory | 19:44 |
| drzoltron_ | oops | 19:45 |
| mexiKON | heh | 19:45 |
| mgedmin | drzoltron_, sudo -s | 19:45 |
| mexiKON | ls -lR | 19:45 |
| * mgedmin waits expectantly | 19:45 | |
| mexiKON | ls -lR / I meant | 19:45 |
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| drzoltron_ | cd / | 19:48 |
| drzoltron_ | rm -rf * | 19:48 |
| mexiKON | override r-xr-xr-x root/wheel for /bin/sh? | 19:49 |
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| yotaff | I hate launchpad | 20:12 |
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| ksmith | hi folks, whats the best way to implement something like http://localhost/myservice?id=123&title=blahblah&data=blahblah in z3? | 21:12 |
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| wiggy | you want to use illogical unreadable urls in z3? | 21:20 |
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| ksmith | wiggy: huh? those are post parameters... like in a form submission | 21:39 |
| ksmith | i'm pretty sure I need to create a local utility, but it needs to be traversable | 21:39 |
| mexiKON | ksmith, let's take this one step back | 21:41 |
| mexiKON | ksmith, what exactly do you want to do? | 21:41 |
| ksmith | for instance, institute a blogger api, handle paypal IPN notices | 21:42 |
| mexiKON | hang on, phone | 21:43 |
| ksmith | np, in the Z2 CMF I would have created a tool | 21:44 |
| wiggy | I'm still stuck on creating a Z2 tool :) | 21:44 |
| mexiKON | back | 21:44 |
| wiggy | I got the tool but it's data isn't persisting | 21:44 |
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| SteveA | with the standard zope3, the url you have would be a view on the root object, that handles the post | 21:44 |
| mexiKON | ksmith, why make a cmf tool? | 21:44 |
| mexiKON | yeah, a view is probably what comes closest | 21:45 |
| SteveA | with my vision of how zope3 should be configured, it would be a "resource" you hook into the /myservice URL using some zcml. | 21:45 |
| SteveA | unfortunatly, my day job keeps my busy day and night, so i haven't had time to actually write that stuff. | 21:45 |
| ksmith | stevea, mexikon thanks | 21:46 |
| SteveA | zope3 is *way* too tied into the zodb, still. | 21:46 |
| ksmith | wiggy: Ive never persisted data with a tool other than to add content to a site | 21:46 |
| mexiKON | ksmith, you really can't answer your question with one answer | 21:46 |
| mexiKON | ksmith, a blogger api, e.g., is best expressed through the API of the content objects, for example | 21:46 |
| mexiKON | or their adapters, respectively | 21:46 |
| ksmith | but a blogger client only expects to hit one url | 21:47 |
| SteveA | jim started on something like i'm describing, with his bobo project. | 21:47 |
| mexiKON | ksmith, that'd be a view then | 21:47 |
| SteveA | (the new zope3 bobo, not the original pre-zope2 one) | 21:47 |
| ksmith | stevea, I just saw mention of that | 21:47 |
| mexiKON | ksmith, a client interacts with zope through a request. and whenever the request is involved, you got a view | 21:48 |
| SteveA | or a resource | 21:48 |
| ksmith | so basically to create a method only, web accessible functions, the preferred way is to create a view on the site root? | 21:48 |
| SteveA | if you have no content object, techincally, you have a resource | 21:48 |
| ksmith | roger that | 21:48 |
| SteveA | ksmith: that is the easiest way, with a standard zope 3 | 21:48 |
| mexiKON | ksmith, create a view for all containers, for example | 21:48 |
| mexiKON | unless you really need to limit yourself to the root | 21:49 |
| ksmith | mexikon, yes, only root | 21:49 |
| mexiKON | but even then, it probably makes more sense to chose a site | 21:49 |
| mexiKON | because you could be virtual hosting | 21:49 |
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| ksmith | so I should create a custom site adapater? | 21:49 |
| SteveA | just register a view on ISite | 21:50 |
| mexiKON | ksmith, what SteveA says :) | 21:50 |
| SteveA | your view can be a class | 21:50 |
| SteveA | so, you write this class | 21:50 |
| SteveA | and make its __call__ method do the stuff you need | 21:50 |
| ksmith | stevea/mexikon, thanks, very helpful | 21:50 |
| SteveA | and in zcml, say: <page for="......ISite" name="myservice" class="....MyClass" attribute="__call__" /> | 21:51 |
| SteveA | write def __call__(self): | 21:51 |
| SteveA | and do stuff with self.request | 21:51 |
| ksmith | argh customer.... gtg, but I | 21:51 |
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| ksmith | i'll try that out asap | 21:51 |
| SteveA | get whatever utilities you need using getUtility() or just import Python modules and use them | 21:51 |
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| jenner | heya | 21:57 |
| jenner | Guys, could someone push me into the right direction? I'd like to know if/how z3 serves files from filesystem | 21:58 |
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