IRC log of #zope3-dev for Monday, 2005-09-26

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MJPhilipp here?12:53
MJsrichter: You familiar with the framework?12:54
MJ(Or more general, Zope3 and ZEO)?12:54
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projekt01srichter, ayt?13:13
projekt01BjornT, do you remember the problem with the BASE tag rendering?13:29
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projekt01anguenot, how you doing?14:01
projekt01anguenot, are you coming to the Neckar sprint?14:02
anguenotprojekt01, hi Roger14:02
anguenotprojekt01, unfortunately I can't make it14:02
anguenotprojekt01, Uwe is aware of this14:03
anguenotprojekt01, Florent, can't make it neither14:03
projekt01Do you have to much to do?14:04
anguenotprojekt01, yep busy at this time14:05
projekt01Ok, hope to meet you at the next sprint14:06
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BjornThi projekt01. yeah, i remember it. what about it?14:12
projekt01Bjorn, there is still a bug if you use a Apache and the virtual host url part.14:12
anguenotprojekt01, sure14:13
projekt01The BASE url tag get structured14:13
projekt01if the __insterB... get used with ++vh++14:13
projekt01__insterB../__insertBase method14:14
BjornTprojekt01: what do you mean with structured? can you give an example?14:15
projekt01Tags like < get rewritten to &lt;14:16
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projekt01'&-l-t-; without the '-'14:17
BjornTso you get "&lt;base href=... &gt;"?14:17
projekt01Yes but the '<' and '/>' isn't correct rendered14:18
BjornTok, that seems strange, i have no idea of why that is happening. it'd be good if you could write a test case for it.14:21
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SteveAprojekt01: do you know about 'structure' in page templates?14:22
J1mSteveA, did you tell me once you didn't want partial inheritence of security declarations.14:23
projekt01Yes, but I can't structure the BASE tag because this part get rendered implicit from the __insertBase method in the publisher.browser14:23
J1mIt onlty gets inserted if one is not there already.14:24
J1m(and only under special circumstances)14:24
projekt01J1m, yes, that's my bugfix right now.14:24
J1mah, there's a problem with that?14:25
SteveApartial inheritence?  i don't know exactly what you mean by that.14:26
projekt01J1m, Yes, but only if you use a Apache in front of the Zope3 server14:26
J1mSteveA, k, I'll mention it to you later than.14:26
J1mSteveA, k, I'll mention it to you later then.14:26
SteveAok, ok14:26
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* SteveA really needs to get those notes about security design improvements made with tres at EP written up14:27
SteveAJ1m|away: i have a requirement for inheritence of authorization behaviour for particular names in some cases, but not in others.14:28
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bob2the more I use turbogears, the more I realise I'm reimplementing zope3 in it17:33
MJAnyone with Five ci rights about?17:38
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FrankBergerhello everyone, does someone know if my objects need to be pickable to get stored in an
SteveAthey do, just in order to get their size, iirc17:45
SteveAwhich is kinda bogus anyway17:45
SteveAif they do, then it is a bug17:46
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FrankBergeris there any other posibility to keep them in memory during requests? something like a list of object references?17:58
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benji_yorkbob2, you must have read my blog entry from yesterday :)18:05
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bob2hah, no, where?18:07
benji_yorkbob2, It's not much to look at yet; that was my first post :)  But if you must know it's at
benji_yorkI hope to get on the planet python aggregator soonish18:09
bob2ah, neat18:10
bob2the main reason I'm looking at things other than zope3 is that zope3 is kinda overwhelming18:10
mgedminwhat does one do to get listed on planet python?18:10
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benji_yorkmgedmin, you (apparently) email the maintainer, I can get you his address if you're interested18:11
MJbenji_york: while on the subject of your site..18:11
benji_yorkbob2, I *really* wish I had time to do some quick start tutorials/screen casts/code generators for Z318:11
MJ"Zope Corporation; Fredericksburg, VA (11/05 - present)'?18:11
benji_yorkMJ, yes..... :)18:11
MJDid you get Guido's time machine?18:12
mgedminbenji_york, +118:12
MJCan I get a ride? ;)18:12
mgedminI watched the turbogears screencast yesterday18:12
mgedminit felt impressive18:12
mgedminalthough left a bunch of unanswered questions about security, virtual hosting, unit testing18:12
benji_yorkOh, right, that should be 04... thanks Jim must have retroactively infected me with his typeo disease18:12
bob2benji_york: hm, I have the simple things down.  some of the more complicated stuff appears to be undocumented outside the source code, tho, which makes it very hard to make headway.18:12
mgedminseparation of application and its instances (with their own log files/databases)18:12
SteveAbob2: ah, so it is like zope218:13
bob2e.g. I still can't figure out how to query, say, an LDAP server for logins in 3.118:13
MJbenji_york: Yes, it is contagious, ain't it18:13
benji_yorkmgedmin, i watched it yesterday too, and kept thinking that it was neat but not quite to the level of Z318:14
benji_yorkmgedmin, his address is trolocsis@gmail.com18:15
benji_york(and I fixed the typeo :)18:15
benji_yorkbob2, re LDAP, etc.: yep there are still many places where it would be nice to have better "drop in" support for common tasks, but we're just not there yet.  For LDAP in particular there is some code available, but it's not in the core and would need some freshening before it will work again18:21
bob2benji_york: well, I'd even be happy for documentation like the PAS had in 3.018:21
benji_yorkbob2, I don't quite follow18:22
SteveAit is still my opinion that the ZMI gets in the way of making zope3 an efficient framework for python programmers18:23
SteveAit makes zope3 feel a lot more heavyweight than it really should be18:23
benji_yorkoops :)18:24
bob2benji_york: in 3.0, adding a new authentication method using the PAS is documented in both  the books, but I can't find something similar for 3.118:24
bob2not being able to avoid ZMI is annoying18:24
benji_yorkSteveA, I somewhat agree, I would phrase it such that it would be nice to have a simplistic starting set with no ZMI and work up from there18:25
benji_yorkbob2, as far as I know it is possible to "avoid" it by turning it off18:25
benji_york(although, I prefer to transmute it in to the application UI instead)18:26
SteveAbenji_york: two things i think are particularly important for the wider adoption of zope3: make the zodb and the zmi non-core add ons.18:27
SteveAthe changes required in various core things to allow for these things will make the "core" of zope 3 much more lightweight18:27
SteveAand more understandable to python programmers -- vastly lowering the count of things you need to know before you can be competent with zope3.18:27
SteveAoh, and to get rid of the link between permissions and interfaces, but that's another discussion.18:28
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mgedminI would like to see the a 20-minute wiki ( version for zope 318:31
mgedminsee what would be slowing developers down18:31
mgedmin(I bet that'll be ZCML and server restarts whenever you change anything in the code)18:31
* mgedmin remembers bobo for zope 318:32
mgedminwhat happened to it?18:32
* SteveA thinks of an interface a module can provide to say "i'm reloadable!" 18:33
baldtrolstevea, i'd love to see that.18:34
* SteveA is just hand-waving18:34
* mgedmin tries to see whether SteveA has a magic wand in his waving hand18:35
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benji_yorkSteveA, that's already been done for views (it's an add-on)18:40
benji_yorkmgedmin, Jim just hasn't had time to work on the Bobo branch18:41
SteveApresentation components that adapt a context and a request ?18:41
SteveAan add-on in what sense?18:41
benji_yorkI'll find the URL if you're interested18:41
benji_york(not in the repo)18:41
SteveA"views" are core, very basic, presentation components18:42
SteveAthe only simpler presentation component is a "resource"18:42
SteveAi think we must be talking about different things18:42
benji_yorkmaybe... I'll find the URL18:43
baldtrolquick (potentially silly and too open-ended) question...  has anything significant changed in the zcml and unittest setups for event subscribers between 3.0 and 3.1?18:47
SteveAthanks benji_york18:48
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benji_yorkhi, whit18:50
benji_yorkI don't know one whit...  :)    (bad pun for those so-challenged)18:50
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whitthis is my first time here I beliew18:51
* whit has been doing some work on five and looking at zope.formlib18:51
benji_yorkwell, it looks like you've adopted our typeo style well18:52
whitI like to drop my 's'es18:52
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andresIs there any easy way to put two autogenerated (via schemes) forms of two different objects into on <form></form>?19:34
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andresI want this, because else i would sometimes only one of the two (dependant) objects generated.19:36
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srichterthis would violate the object view paradgim19:43
srichterbut you can write some Python code to do this19:44
andressrichter, do you mind giving me some hints?19:44
ksmithis it not possible to user browser:editform with IAnnotatable metadata? I keep getting forbiddenattribute errors19:55
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srichterandres: well, you basically write a view that instantiates two edit views; one for each object and then you have a custom template using both views19:59
srichterI did something similar (with multiple object views) in
andresOk, ill look.20:00
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srichterksmith: yes, but you have to make your adapter to the annotation data a trusted adapter20:00
srichterin ZCML trusted="true"20:01
andresBtw, thanks for zope3... Its way much neater to develop than z2. (besides the constant stop-start-stop-start of zope)20:01
mgedminany pytz/datetime gurus here?20:01
benji_yorkandres, for some auto-reload voodoo, see
mgedmin>>> import pytz, datetime20:02
mgedmin>>> naive = datetime.datetime(2005, 9, 26, 20, 00)20:02
mgedmin>>> vilnius = pytz.timezone('Europe/Vilnius')20:02
mgedminnow I convert UTC -> Europe/Vilnius20:02
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mgedmin>>> naive.replace(tzinfo=pytz.utc).astimezone(vilnius).isoformat()20:03
mgedminall is well20:03
mgedminbut if I convert Europe/Vilnius -> UTC20:03
mgedmin>>> naive.replace(tzinfo=vilnius).astimezone(pytz.utc).isoformat()20:03
srichterahhhh! :-(20:03
mgedminexpected result -- '17:00', actual result -- '18:36'20:03
srichterI guess a PyTZ bug?20:03
mgedminthe offset becomes +1:24 instead of +3:0020:03
mgedmin(+1:24 is "Warsaw Mean Time" -- the time zone that was used here before 1916, I think)20:04
* mgedmin looks20:05
srichterahh, maybe the current timezone setting is not selected correctly20:05
mgedminclass DstTzInfo(BaseTzInfo):20:05
mgedmin    def utcoffset(self, dt):20:06
mgedmin        return self._utcoffset20:06
mgedminthis does not seem right!20:06
mgedminutcoffset gets a 'dt' argument so that it can determine the UTC offset for a given date20:06
mgedminbut this class returns a constant offset20:06
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mgedminastimezone() is implemented this way:20:07
mgedminfind out my utcoffset()20:07
ksmithsrichter:  I have trusted="true" and it works for a custom view, but not browser:editform20:07
mgedminthen call tzinfo.fromutc(value)20:07
mgedmintzinfo.fromutc is correct20:07
mgedmintzinfo.utcoffset is not20:07
mgedminwhere do I file a bug?20:08
srichterksmith: mmh, then I don;t know out of the top of my head either20:08
srichtermgedmin: best send Stuart an E-mail message20:08
srichtermgedmin: he was very responsive to previous requests20:09
mgedminok, will do that20:09
ksmithsrichter: it may be related to Problems with PartialAnnotationsAdapter thread
ksmithwould it be fair to file as a bug and see what happens?20:13
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ksmithnevermind, it's already filed as
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srichterbenji_york: are you there?21:13
benji_yorksrichter, yep21:15
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MacYET_does anyone know the location of ZCs extensions to the z3 catalog?21:18
benji_yorkMacYET_, it's in the sandbox on svn.zope.org21:20
srichterbenji_york: urllib2 converts all 404 and other error responses to Python exceptions :-(21:20
srichterthis means that there is no way of testing the result output21:20
srichtercan this be turned off?21:20
MacYET_benji_york: tnx21:20
benji_yorkhmm, I hadn't noticed that (do we have tests?)21:21
benji_yorkI don't know off the top of my head if that is togglable21:22
srichternom I just noticed it in one of my tests when I tried to test for errors21:22
srichterwe need to address this problem one way or another21:22
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