IRC log of #zope3-dev for Friday, 2005-09-30

VladDracah, would love to be there, but no time :(00:00
tarektoo bad00:00
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smhi all00:53
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andresHow am i supposed to handle object which wont have more thant dc.title attribute? Because when i want to change that object, creators is not defined. The easy thing is to do a creators=(), but that doesnt seem very elegant to me.11:09
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Lewyhi, anyone using jsonserver? (I try to install z3labs/cpsskins that requires that lib)14:03
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projekt01Lewy, yes14:10
projekt01Lewy, just add the jsonserver package and follow the installation instruction (change the zope.conf to use HTTP+JSON)14:13
Lewyprojekt01: I'm a z3 newbie, but I managed to install almost everything I tried. Do you have any troubles with jsonserver from trunk? It raises ConfigurationError :(14:13
projekt01can you post them?14:13
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projekt01IResult is a zope.publisher interface, are you sure the z3 installation is correct?14:17
projekt01Can you start z3 if you use HTTP instead of HTTP+JSON in zope.conf?14:18
Lewybut without jsonserver it runs.14:19
projekt01You mean if you drop the package, z3 will start?14:20
Lewyit runs also with a jsonserver 1.0_beta3, but cpsskins don't work as expected14:20
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projekt01Can you start z3 without CPSSkin?14:22
Lewyyes, with and without14:23
projekt01I did a fresh z3 and jsonserver checkout and it works for me. But didn't use CPSSkin14:24
projekt01How did you install the ZCML files from jsonserver?14:24
projekt01Are they located in your package-includes folder?14:24
projekt01Are you using the checkout of jsonserver form
projekt01revision 113?14:27
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projekt01And z3 trunk revision 38697 from svn://
Lewy113 and zope from Zope-3.1.0c3.win32-py2.3.exe14:29
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projekt01Ah, can you use a fresh z3 trunk checkout and compile it. Or use the precompiled files from tim_one?14:30
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projekt01Lewy, the trunk of jsonserver depends on changes in the z3 trunk since Zope-3.1.0c314:31
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Lewyhmm, maybe I'll try to revert to the proper revision of jsonserver14:32
Lewyit starts :)14:34
Lewythanx a lot14:35
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yotaffan idea of the release date of zope 3.1 ?15:45
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sidneiheya, anyone awake?16:52
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whit_hey sidnei!17:34
sidneihey whit_17:34
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tekNicoThe bare Zope3 SVN trunk uses almost 50MB of resident memory right at the start, on Debian Linux and Python2.4 .18:32
tekNicoAny simple way to cut that back?18:32
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SteveAtekNico: remove a bunch of package-includes18:34
tekNicoAny hint about the worst offenders, or is it just trial-and-error? :-)18:35
SteveAwell, is there a package-include for the wiki product?  do you need to use it?18:35
SteveAsame for other things like that18:36
SteveAsome of the includes may depend on others, which is kinda crap, but there you go18:36
SteveAyou'll find out when you try to start zope3 and it doesn't18:36
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benji_yorkor do like we do with our projects, start with an empty package-includes and build up from there18:36
tekNicoCan I really totally empty the zopeskel/etc/package-includes dir? :-)18:37
benji_yorkyes, as long as you put one or two stratiegic "includes" in your site.zcml18:38
tekNicoGreat, thanks.18:39
tekNicoNow for the foolhardy one... :-)18:40
tekNicoIs there any way to dynamically load packages, in a reload-like fashion, without having to restart the process?18:40
benji_yorknote that there are some pitfalls to using that, so be careful18:41
tekNicoThat looks quite useful during UI development. It only reloads views, though, so it won't help with the current problem.18:45
SteveAtekNico: note that if you remove all package-includes, zope3 starts up very quickly18:45
SteveAeven faster if you don't use the zodb ;-)   but that's kinda rocketscience unfortunately18:45
tekNicoThanks for mentioning it anyway, I'll surely use it.18:45
* sidnei loves rocket science18:45
tekNicoSo, the ZODB is the really real-estate grabber here? :-)18:46
SteveAnot sure what you mean.  it's more hard-wired in that it should be.  i have a plan to fix it, but no spare time to actually do it :-/18:46
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benji_yorktekNico, ZODB does allocate some caches and such, I don't know how much space they take up, but it might be worth looking into if you have a memory constrained environment18:47
tekNicoSteveA: I was still referring to the memory occupation.18:48
tekNicobenji_york: right, maybe the cache size is configurable.18:48
SteveAthe zodb is much less of an offender than apidoc18:48
SteveAapidoc is really useful, though18:48
tekNicoI guess apidoc may not be needed, on a production server. :-)18:48
SteveAalthough, i don't know exactly how much space it frees just turning it off18:49
SteveAi think many of its hooks still keep metadata in memory18:49
tekNicoI'll let you know soon. :-)18:49
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benji_yorktekNico, python -OO might help too (removal of docstrings, specifically)19:02
tarekthat's dangerous, code can be based on __doc__19:03
benji_yorknot good code  :)19:03
tareksure :)19:03
tarekdo you know people, what would be the best way to add introspection in xmlrpc in z3 ?19:07
tarekthe idea is to implement this:
tarekthis would be to be able to list xmlrpc views methods from client19:09
tareki've thaught on some kind of adapter that would get a xmlrpc view and render it with the 3 extra method19:10
tarekbut i was wondering if it's the best way19:11
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tekNicobenji_york: thanks, that's a good one to try too.19:12
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mgedminbenji_york, zope 3 form error messages rely on __doc__ of exception classes19:45
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tekNicomgedmin: that sounds unclean. Was that the best way to go?19:55
mgedmintekNico, that is unclean19:56
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benji_yorkmgedmin, we should probably fix that at some point20:21
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faassenJ1m: hey.20:28
J1mfaassen, What's up?20:34
faassenJ1m: trying to make ip-based groups work in Zope 3.120:34
faassenJ1m: and being rather frustrated. I hacked so far that I got groups added to the object correctly, and the role seems correct, it just won't work. :(20:35
faassenJ1m: that is, groups to the principal.20:35
faassenit's really weird. I must be doing something stupid wrong.20:35
J1mI don't know.20:37
J1mI don't remember how that dance worked.20:37
J1mOff hand20:37
faassenyeah, well, I know groups work, somehow just my ip-based ones don't seem to get it.20:37
J1mso, you verified that the principal has the groups you expect?20:38
J1mI wonder if there is a missmatch between the group ids assigned to the principal and the group-ids you used for grants.20:38
J1mDid you grant roles to the groups?20:39
faassenthe groups we're in: ['documentlibraryhere']20:39
faassenthe groups we need to have: [('documentlibraryhere', PermissionSetting: Allow)]20:39
faassenthat's output from the test. :)20:39
faasseni.e. principal.groups20:40
faassenand IPrincipalRoleManager(obj).getPrincipalsForRole('myrole')20:40
J1mIs this failing in a test? or TTW? or both?20:40
faassena functional test. and TTW.20:41
J1mIt is suspicious that your group ids don't have prfixes.20:41
faassenthey do have prefixes. they're just without a dot. I'm not sure whether that's zope 3 or me.20:42
faassen'documentlibrary' is a prefix20:42
faassenanyway, groups work in the non ip-based groups scenario, and the tests pass.20:42
faassenso I must be doing something weird wrong.20:42
J1m(I screwed up by not making the dots automatic)20:42
J1mOr there's some dark corner you've got lost in.20:43
faassenprefixes have been the bane of my life for a while, but that's a while back. :)20:43
faassenI mean, the principal says it has the groups I expect.20:43
J1mI guess, at this stage, I'd step through the policy code.20:43
faassenyeah, I tried that.20:43
faassenbut I don't know what to look for.20:43
faassenthe caching stuff makes me dizzy.20:44
J1mTake some dramamine before starting the debugger then.20:44
* faassen grins.20:44
faassenI just don't know where the groups are checked. the code which talks about groups delivers no groups.20:44
faassenperhaps that's what's wrong.20:44
J1mAlmost certainly.20:45
J1mThere's code there for finding the groups the principal has.20:45
faassengroupsFor and findGroupsFor.20:45
faassenanyway, amkes sense to focus on that.20:46
J1mI assume you have a Authenticator plugin for your groups.20:47
J1mI assume you have an Authenticator plugin for your groups.20:47
J1mWhen finding a principals groups, the security policy has to get the closure of the groups.20:48
faassenhm, I think I have a bogus authenticator.20:48
faassenI stepped through the code and I think getPrincipal is failing.20:48
J1mIt needs to look up group object so it can find the group's groups.20:48
faassenmy old groups are correct.20:48
faassenthe ip groups may be wrong.20:48
J1mso when it finds a group id on the principal for an ip group, it then tries to get the principal for the ip group.20:49
faassenright, I think the problem is the lack of a sensible principalInfo method on this authenticator.20:49
J1mYour plugin's principalInfo needs to work for that to happen.20:49
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J1msounds like a good explanation.20:49
faassenthe problem is that this authenticator is actually always delivering unauthenticated principals.20:50
faassenoh, wait, I didn't hook this authenticator in even.20:50
faassenI didn't hook it in as I didn't think I needed it. I'm trying to add groups to unauthenticated principals.20:50
J1mIt needs to return info for ip groups as well.20:50
faassenbut the group needs to be looked up. nasty.20:50
J1mno, not nasty.20:51
faassenno, wait, I'm confusing you.20:51
faassenI have 1 authenticator.20:51
SteveAwhy not just have a different unauthenticated principal for each ip address range you care about?20:51
SteveAin a sense, the ip address is a form of weak authentication20:51
faassenwell, I also want logged in people to have groups.20:52
SteveAso, you could even go for authenticated principals20:52
faassenbased on ip addresses.20:52
faassennot just unauthenticated ones.20:52
SteveAsounds a bit strange to me20:52
faassenSteveA: it's not strange. the UI of the app allows you to use real groups made off logged in people, and groups out of ip addresses, to give them permission to download something.20:52
SteveAthen again, i'm using a model of many different principals mapping to the same user20:53
faassenSteveA: an ip range is a collection of people, therefore, a group. :)20:53
SteveAyou could think of it as a classification within your overall identification / authentication scheme20:54
SteveAif you want to20:54
faassenSteveA: the app's design is not going to change at this point. :)20:54
faassenJ1m: anyway, I got confused with my authenticators. I think I added the logic to the right authenticator now.20:56
faassenyup, the test appears to pass now.20:57
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faassencool, thanks Jim20:57
faassenargh, the test passes but the ttw doesn't work.21:03
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faassenSteveA: to get back to your proposal to use principals for ip ranges.21:26
faassenSteveA: unfortunately it seems Zope 3's architecture is not very amendable to what I want to do.21:26
faassenSteveA: so that may be the only solution.21:26
faassenSteveA: what I hacked up adds groups to principals after they're created, but by then the zopepolicy has already cached stuff. clearing the cache has unwanted results in either never allowing access after the first time, or always allowing it. :)21:27
faassenSteveA: I guess I could set it up so a new unauthenticated principal is somehow created each time..21:28
faassenanyway, bye. :)21:29
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* mgedmin wonders how many megs the zope 3 repository eats21:34
ignaswhat happened to IPublicationRequestFactory ?21:41
ignaswhat is output_steam? and why signature of HTTPPublicationRequestFactory.__call__ is different from the one defined in the interface ?21:42
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benji_yorkignas, the difference between the interface and the implementation is BBB22:05
mgedminso which one is the future, and which one is BBB?22:06
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benji_yorkyou can depend on the interface, not the implementation22:08
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ignaswhat kind of contraption is WSGIHTTPServer ?22:11
ignaswhy ServerType was not modified with all the refactoring that apparently happened to the Server code ?22:11
ignasit still thinks that it is geting requestFactory as a second parameter22:12
ignasthough apparently it expects an IWSGIApplication object22:13
ignasand the only way to pass a custom RequestFactory is - extending WSGIPublisherApplication22:13
ignasbecause well - you are passing the application class to the ServerType(), so you can't pass anything to the constructor of WSGIPublisherApplication, though it helpfully accepts a "factory" as an argument to __init__22:14
ignaslooked at the wrong ServerType class :/22:17
ignasso some of my points are wrong ...22:17
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benji_yorkignas, you'll have to ask Jim or srichter22:21
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ignassomeone should add requestFactory to the atrgument list of so one would not have to extend the WSGIPublisherApplication just to have a different requestFactory22:22
ignasto the __init__ of it i mean22:22
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