IRC log of #zope3-dev for Monday, 2005-10-03

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Ragicaline 209 of src/zope/component/README.txt (svn head) needs a second colon ...05:33
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VladDraccan someone publish (or whatever is required) ?10:34
philiKONargh. srichter or whoever forgot to publish it10:35
philiKONit == the 3.1.0 release tarball10:35
* philiKON tries to publish it10:36
VladDracyeah and I need it :)10:36
philiKONhmm. that's weird.10:37
philiKONthe .tgz was published by srichter yesterday10:37
philiKONso was the folder10:38
philiKONVladDrac, just now i no longer have problems accessing the url anonymously10:39
VladDracI still do10:40
VladDracdo you have a url for the tar.gz directly?10:42
philiKONVladDrac, go to, not just zope.org10:42
philiKONmight be a caching problem on yoru side, too10:42
VladDracI'm on www.zope.org10:43
philiKONok. coz the above url had no www in it10:43
philiKONdirect url is:
VladDracok works fine with wget10:44
VladDracthanks10:44 caching is still a mess10:44
VladDracI got ajungs management pages a while ago shortly after he released a TextIndexNG310:45
philiKONheh, yeah10:53
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Lewyhi, what's wrong with z3 download page?11:00
VladDraclewy we don't know11:00
* philiKON can access it11:00
philiKONVladDrac, Lewy,
Lewyis windows installer ready?11:02
philiKONtim will have to compile it11:04
philiKONmaybe in 5 to 6 hours11:04
philiKONwhen the U.S. east coast awakens11:04
LewyAnyone knows if z3.1 is compatible with jsonserver and cpsskins  from z3labs or do I have to compile the trunk?11:05
philiKONno idea11:06
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VladDraclewy: jsonserver should work11:32
VladDraclewy I heard someone complaining about cpsskins though11:32
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LewyI tried to install cpsskins on Friday. It started but the edit page looked broken. It was probably because of old jsonserver, but the trunk didn't run with z3.1c411:38
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yotaffhi :)12:27
yotaffsrichter: ayt ?12:28
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projekt01srichter, is it possible to list adapters form the local adapter registry via ++apidoc++?13:23
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srichterprojekt01: no, because APIDoc only looks at global registries13:47
bob2oh, it's out13:47
* MacYET yawns13:47
MacYETmorning sr13:47
mgedminwhy do I have to log in if I go to ?13:53
*** mgedmin changes topic to "zope3-dev | Zope 3.1.0final released! | Help translating Zope 3.1 into your language! | logs available at"13:53
MacYETbecause is a piece of crap13:54
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J1mMan, what a disaster14:01
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d2mmgedmin: anonymous access to works without any problems14:06
philiKONyes, for me too, but not for everyone14:06
tareknot working here yet, have to log in14:07
mgedminit works if I use links14:08
mgedminI got a longin form when I used Firefox14:08
mgedmingo figurew14:08
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srichterno, it depends whether the server you are getting your answer from has already updated its cache14:18
srichtersometimes also a slash (existing or missing) at the end can make the difference depending on the Cache's state14:20
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MacYETphiliKON: do you know something about marshalling schema-based content to xml?14:36
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philiKONMacYET, well... there's zope.fssync14:37
* MacYET checks14:37
philiKONit's not in any release afaik14:38
philiKONbut it's basically a generic FS syncing framework14:38
philiKONkapil is also working on plone xml import/export and tres wants a lot of that stuff in the cmf 2.0 architecture14:38
MacYETi am not talking of plone :)14:39
MacYETand not of cmf14:39
philiKONyeah, yeah14:39
MacYETand Kapil's solutions are usually heavily overdesigned14:40
philiKONone could say that, indeed14:40
MacYETI'll try to implement a Plone content type only with z3 and z3 schemas14:40
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MacYETforget all this AT crap14:40
MacYETxmlpickle looks nice14:51
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* dlk pays attention15:01
dlkare there any standard content types defined in Zope3?15:01
* dlk says without having looked at the z3 source...15:02
* MacYET thinks Z3 is the best way to get rid of plone15:02
sashavMacYET: you mean the bad in Plone :)15:03
MacYETis there something good in plone? :-)15:03
dlkkewl. that means less work :)15:03
MacYETsorry, the more i use plone the more it fucks me up15:03
dlkwell, the layout is kind of nice, and it has popularised zope a bit...15:03
MacYETplone is a good cms but it is a sick framework for writing applications15:05
MacYETbbll...fixing my plone apps :)15:06
projekt01srichter, I see, thanks15:07
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MacYETThe purpose of FieldProperties is to deal automatically with setting/getting of values as instance attributes?15:12
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sashavMacYET:  yes you can use instance.attribute = val and get automatic validation15:15
* MacYET has a topic for the sprint this week :)15:16
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yotaffsrichter: needs admin privileges for viewing15:24
d2myotaff: use for now15:25
Lewyyotaff: I doesn't anymore. You just need to clear the cookie.15:27
yotaffoki thx15:30
philiKONis there an official spelling for "being able to be pickled"? is it pickable, picklable or pickleable?15:41
andrew_mi'd say pickleable, since pickable is from 'to pick' not 'to pickle'15:44
philiKONright, though you'd pronounce it the same, i guess, right?15:44
philiKONbtw, all three occur in zope and zodb source code as well as python mailinglist archives15:45
tarekas long as it is fiveable....15:45
philiKONor fivified15:46
philiKONfolks like SteveA, faassen, MJ etc. typicall know this kind of stuff...15:47
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* philiKON settles for pickeable15:53
MacYETis there some vision in Z3 for objects to have UIDs?16:04
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philiKONMacYET, take the intid utility16:22
philiKONtake this vision: zapi.getUtility(IIntIdUtility) :)16:22
MacYETyou guys have already implemented too much :))16:22
* MacYET takes some duct tape to build an app16:23
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J1mfaassen, ayt?17:42
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philiKONJ1m, is there an official spelling for "being able to be pickled"? is it pickable, picklable or pickleable? all three occur in zope and zodb source code as well as python mailinglist archives...17:55
MacYETcall it: p-able17:56
* mgedmin votes for pickleable17:56
philiKONmgedmin, my guts tell me the same thing, though that must have changed over the last 14 months according to my book :)17:57
philiKONyeah, google fight rules17:59
philiKONmy most favourite one:
philiKON is even better, it hink18:03
J1mThe Python docs use picklable.  We should follow that.18:07
J1m(Even though I prefer pickleable myself.)18:08
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* MacYET wonders about the english grammar18:09
philiKONactually, now that i think about it, if the "e" isn't necessary for pronouciation, it's left out18:10
philiKONso, it's "writable" instead of "writeable"18:10
benji_york"shareable" vs. "sharable"18:10
philiKONfor some reason shareable looks better18:11
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philiKONJ1m, ok, i'll settle for pickable then18:13
philiKONJ1m, thanks18:14
benji_yorkMerriam-Webster online says "writable"18:14
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philiKONbenji_york, yeah18:16
d2mJ1m: did you manage to talk to Andrew Sawyers about the cachiong issue ?18:16
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J1md2m, which caching issue? (I'm still wading through my email.)18:19
J1mPerhaps you should ask me after I catch up. :)18:19
zbirI suspect (coming late to the conversation) that the guideline is probably along the lines of where the 'e' is dropped: write -> writing -> writable, pickle -> pickling -> picklable, share -> sharing -> sharable18:22
* zbir lurks18:22
Theuniisn't this also an issue between BE an AE?18:25
* andrew_m thinks english is very stretching-to-its-limitable18:28
* Theuni suggests an upgrade to english 3.118:28
philiKONzbir, the 'e' is always dropped in the gerund, i think18:29
philiKONzbir, it's about whether the 'e' is necessary for pronouciation i think18:29
zbirsorry, too late. I already lurked18:29
philiKONlike, 'to fence': 'fencable' vs. 'fenceable'18:29
* zbir suggests getting to the heart of these made-up words is unpossible18:30
philiKONwell, the art of pickling is old...18:31
benji_yorkthe problem is, everything in english is verbable  <wink>18:31
philiKONi wouldn't be surprised if 200 years ago, some american settler said to his wife: "dont' pickle that meat, it ain't picklable!"18:31
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philiKONbenji_york, that too18:31
sidneiphiliKON: i think 'fencable' would be pronounced as 'fenkable', thus the correct one would be 'fencible'18:33
J1md2m, ayt?18:33
J1mWhat should I talk to Adndrew about? :)18:33
philiKONsidnei, right about fenkable. not sure about fencible. i'd said it'd be fenceable... :)18:33
J1m(I've gotten through my mail and didn't see an explanation. :)18:33
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d2mJ1m: i just sent him a mail describing the problem, hope he has time to join us in #zope-web18:34
* zbir posits that discussing how sibilant words would be modified is a YAGNI conversation, as we're talking about 'pickle'18:34
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* philiKON doesn't know if he should be proud or ashamed of this typo: "prodecure" instead of "procedure"18:46
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tareksrichter: ayt ?18:55
srichtertarek: only briefly18:55
faassenJ1m: I'm here now.18:55
tareksrichter: it's about the introspection stuff, i am writing a proposal, and i was wondering when you said "I think the better solution would be to have those methods registered as views on all objects" if you meant "having a single generic view than can browse the object to get the answers"         am i correct ?18:57
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J1msrichter, ayt?18:58
J1mfaassen, There's a discussion of implicit unicode conversion on python-dev. :)18:58
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faassenJ1m: implicit unicode conversion?18:59
J1myup implicit str->unicode conversion as in 'hello ' + u'world'19:00
J1mThought you might be interested.19:00
srichterJ1m: yeah19:01
srichtertarek: what introspection stuff was that again?19:01
srichtertarek: oh, right19:01
srichtertarek: I remember19:01
tareksrichter: anyway, it doesn't really matter, don't bather with it now, you can correct the suff later --19:02
SteveAJ1m: that has bit us in launchpad, particularly in the translation web app, a great many times.  i've been tempted to make a 'stringdata' type and insist on its use...19:02
srichtertarek: yes, I meant having a single generic view that will browse the *component architecture registries* to give an answer (using the context object of course19:02
tarekok that's how i understood it too19:02
srichtertarek: note that apidoc does those sort of tasks already and it should be fairly straight forward to implement that19:02
tarekok i'll check them then19:03
faassenJ1m: okay, read the thread. I agree with your perspective, mostly. anyway, the implicit conversions are a pain, though they're nice to have sometimes when you want to write polymorphic code. And Fredrik has a point about ascii being more efficient. His elementtree follows a strategy to deliver ascii strings where possible but delivers unicode strings where necessary. that works just fine too.19:03
faassenJ1m: nothing much new in the thread was said. I'm holding my hopes out for a slow migration to unicode strings with a new explicit bytes type.19:04
faassenJ1m: I think Guido at some stage was discussing such in a thread not so long ago.19:04
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philiKONall this could have been avoided if implicit conversion hadn't been introduced19:12
philiKONwith the str type, i don't really see a need for the bytes type19:12
philiKONthey sound the same to me, really19:12
faassenwell, typically bytes literals make somewhat less sense.19:16
faassenand str has traditionally the dual role of both bytes and encoded text.19:16
philiKONbut encoded text is bytes19:17
philiKONunix doesn't make a difference there and everyone agrees that windows is stupid in doing so (e.g. when reading files)19:17
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