| projekt01 | Right now I only see the possibility to implement something like getParticipantsForTheNextActivity() in the custom workflow application and use a hard coded participant id. | 00:05 |
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| runyaga | projekt01, ask on email list .. I"m sure julian has a good idea | 00:20 |
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| projekt01 | runyaga, Ok will try | 00:25 |
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| projekt01 | srichter, are the viewlet ready to use ;-) | 01:05 |
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| projekt01 | srichter, we have z3 sprint at the ETH Zürich tomorrow, can you tell me what are the next steps for the viewlet integration? | 02:47 |
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| projekt01 | srichter, I will contact you tomorrow, have a nice "jet lag" ;-) | 02:54 |
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| gdsgdsgvdd | can someone tell me the syntax for applying email address validation constraint to a text box in a form | 08:14 |
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| gdsgdsgvdd | is there any built-in schema for email address entry | 08:25 |
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| gdsgdsgvdd | how should i validate an email address field in a form for a valid address | 08:41 |
| gdsgdsgvdd | where should i look for this information | 08:43 |
| gdsgdsgvdd | please... can someone help | 08:46 |
| d2m | gdsgdsgvdd: CMF for example has its own method _checkEmail() at http://svn.zope.org/CMF/trunk/CMFDefault/RegistrationTool.py?view=auto | 08:51 |
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| gdsgdsgvdd | d2m, will re.compile(.... constraint work | 09:35 |
| d2m | gdsgdsgvdd: is am not sure i understand your question | 09:41 |
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| headgoat | anyone awake at this hour? | 11:27 |
| headgoat | I'm having trouble installing zope on ubuntu | 11:27 |
| SteveA | hiya | 11:27 |
| SteveA | what version of ubuntu? | 11:28 |
| SteveA | what version of zope? | 11:28 |
| headgoat | 5.10 and 3.1.0 this is a simple (I think) question. | 11:28 |
| SteveA | and, are you installing the breezy package of zope3? | 11:29 |
| headgoat | I just installed ubuntu, clean system. I downloaded zope, I did the ./configure | 11:29 |
| SteveA | i see | 11:29 |
| SteveA | what's the error? | 11:29 |
| headgoat | and make fails because it's not in my path ((bash: make: comand not found) | 11:29 |
| headgoat | but where's make? | 11:29 |
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| headgoat | does ubuntu not come with 'make'? | 11:30 |
| SteveA | not by default | 11:31 |
| SteveA | so, the ubuntu base system does not include development tools | 11:31 |
| headgoat | eek | 11:31 |
| SteveA | you need to install them | 11:31 |
| SteveA | you're meant to use the packaging system, if you're not a software developer | 11:31 |
| SteveA | so, you install binaries that are supported and have dependencies registered | 11:32 |
| headgoat | well.. i am a wannabe s/w developer (actually a Windows guy) | 11:32 |
| SteveA | if you are a software developer, and need to install from sources, then you need to install the software development tools | 11:32 |
| headgoat | ok, from ubuntu.com? | 11:32 |
| SteveA | but, a minority of ubuntu users are software developers in the strictest sense | 11:32 |
| SteveA | use the package manager | 11:32 |
| headgoat | like Applications / Add Applications? | 11:33 |
| SteveA | but, this conversation should be on #ubuntu | 11:33 |
| SteveA | it's not on topic for #zope3-dev really | 11:33 |
| headgoat | very true. But it all started with not being able to install Zope on FC 3 - so now, a day later, I am working on ubuntu! | 11:33 |
| SteveA | the guys on #ubuntu are friendly | 11:34 |
| SteveA | you should be able to get the information you need from there | 11:34 |
| headgoat | k thx | 11:34 |
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| d2m | headgoat: zope3.1.0 is available as a windows binary too | 11:37 |
| headgoat | ok, but i don't want it on windows, but thanks | 11:38 |
| headgoat | i am trying to use it to force me away from the dark side ;) | 11:39 |
| tziade | SteveA, do you know if there's a particular reason why the python profile module is not shipped in ubuntu python package ? | 11:40 |
| SteveA | yes, i do | 11:40 |
| SteveA | it isn't free software | 11:40 |
| SteveA | there are all sorts of problems shipping with Python in the future, because it doesn't fall under the python licence | 11:40 |
| SteveA | the python maintainers didn't notice the problem until a long time after it was originally included in the code libraries | 11:41 |
| SteveA | as far as i know, it remains a problem | 11:41 |
| tziade | oh oki i see, thx for the explanation | 11:41 |
| SteveA | the copyright of the original code belongs to a company that was acquired by another larger company | 11:41 |
| SteveA | and so on | 11:41 |
| tziade | k | 11:41 |
| SteveA | so, it is a real mess trying to sort out correct copyrights so that a free licence can be issued | 11:41 |
| tziade | i bet | 11:42 |
| SteveA | you can get the python profiler as a separate ubuntu package | 11:42 |
| SteveA | i think it is in "multiverse" | 11:42 |
| SteveA | but again... off topic for #zope3-dev ;-) | 11:42 |
| tziade | oki, i do that then, thanks, I was just wondering how come it didn't work on my fresh ubuntu | 11:42 |
| tziade | oups, yup sorry :) | 11:43 |
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| headgoat | ok, well, in case anyone stumbles on this log, and is trying to figure out how I got the dev tools for ubuntu, to proceed with the Zope install.. I did a 'sudo aptitude install build-essential' | 11:54 |
| SteveA | or you could use the GUI synaptic | 11:55 |
| headgoat | now ya tell me :) | 11:55 |
| headgoat | out of curiousity, how would I do that? | 11:56 |
| headgoat | sorry - more conversation for #ubuntu | 11:57 |
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| d2m | headgoat: check the wiki at ubunto.org or use the packagemanager from the desktop menue | 12:02 |
| headgoat | AH.. under the menu System / Administration / Synaptic Package Manager | 12:03 |
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| headgoat | ok, well.. the saga continues on the Zope install. I cannot make this work! To refresh, yesterday I tried to install Zope on FC3. Couldn't get it to pass the 'make check' step. I scrapped it all, and went to ubuntu, fresh system (based on advice here). it fails too! | 12:04 |
| d2m | i've read that | 12:04 |
| headgoat | new and improved errors, though :) | 12:05 |
| SteveA | headgoat: were you running 'make check' as root? | 12:05 |
| d2m | headgoat: install the programmers suite and you are done | 12:05 |
| SteveA | there will always be an error running the tests as root | 12:05 |
| headgoat | Steve, no, not as root. | 12:05 |
| headgoat | d2m: I installed the build-essential . Should I go do the programmers suite from the GUI? | 12:06 |
| headgoat | SteveA: must I run the check as root? (I missed that) | 12:07 |
| SteveA | i think the easiest thing would be for you to get the zope3 source package | 12:07 |
| SteveA | and install its build dependencies | 12:07 |
| d2m | its rather hard to run anything as root on ubuntu (without the sudo command) | 12:07 |
| SteveA | just a sec, i'll see if the python packaging person from ubuntu can help you | 12:07 |
| SteveA | don't run the test suite as root | 12:07 |
| headgoat | ok. the test suite completed (not as root) with failures=1 errors=5 | 12:10 |
| SteveA | can you paste them into a pastebin | 12:10 |
| SteveA | such as... | 12:10 |
| SteveA | paste.plone.org | 12:10 |
| headgoat | yeah. I haven't done this before... just paste into that webpage? | 12:11 |
| SteveA | yes | 12:12 |
| headgoat | ok.. http://paste.plone.org/417 | 12:13 |
| SteveA | so, you need to install zlib | 12:14 |
| SteveA | zlib1g and zlib1g-dev i expect | 12:14 |
| headgoat | ok, in Synaptic, zliblg is checked as installed. ""-dev is not | 12:16 |
| SteveA | hmm, strange though | 12:16 |
| headgoat | can you tell from my paste if I just need to re-compile Zope, or Python? | 12:17 |
| headgoat | (keep in mind, I installed ubuntu fresh, brand new, 2 hours ago... so this is a pretty clean system | 12:17 |
| SteveA | you won't need to recompile python | 12:17 |
| SteveA | for some reason, you have no 'zlib' module | 12:18 |
| d2m | headgoat: install a zlib-dev if you need it | 12:18 |
| SteveA | shouldn't be necessary i think | 12:19 |
| d2m | headgoat: whats the problem with installing packages ? i suppose you have a big harddisk | 12:19 |
| SteveA | but maybe that's it | 12:19 |
| mgedmin | "/usr/local/bin/python" ? | 12:19 |
| mgedmin | did you compile Python by yourself? | 12:19 |
| d2m | headgoat: you need to recompile python if you had no zlib before | 12:20 |
| headgoat | I don't have any personal problem with installing packages. about 20GB partition. | 12:20 |
| SteveA | you shouldn't be compiling python | 12:20 |
| SteveA | you should be installing it | 12:20 |
| SteveA | if you compiled python yourself, that's where the problem will be | 12:21 |
| SteveA | really, the point of the operating system's package dependencies system is to make installs just work | 12:21 |
| headgoat | yes I compiled python, because the first time i tried to compile Zope, it told me that there was no makefile in the usr/bin/Python version | 12:21 |
| d2m | SteveA: i wouldn't try to run zope with ubuntu system python | 12:21 |
| mgedmin | headgoat, apt-get install python2.4-dev | 12:22 |
| mgedmin | will get you the Makefile | 12:22 |
| mgedmin | d2m, why? | 12:22 |
| d2m | think of that stupid sysadmin that does tha python update ;) | 12:22 |
| d2m | your zope wont statup nexttime | 12:22 |
| mgedmin | d2m, I think your fears are groundless | 12:23 |
| SteveA | python doesn't get updated except for security updates | 12:23 |
| SteveA | once the ubuntu version you are using is released | 12:23 |
| SteveA | until there is a new version | 12:23 |
| d2m | i have seen admins updating python to 2.4 overnight before | 12:24 |
| SteveA | so, if she/he sticks with ubuntu 5.10 then it will be fine until she/he switches to ubuntu 6.whatever | 12:24 |
| headgoat | ok, let's see... I'm not sure where I am here.... I installed zlib-dev, and did the ./configure, and make (which did nothing!), and make check fails on the zlib again | 12:24 |
| SteveA | i've seen admins stick NAILS in the HARD DRIVE | 12:24 |
| SteveA | but that doesn't mean it is a good thing for them to do | 12:24 |
| d2m | ;) | 12:24 |
| headgoat | well......... this is a basement system, so the sysadmin you speak of (that would be dumb enough to stick nails in it) would be me | 12:24 |
| mgedmin | headgoat, that's normal, if you did the ./configure && make for your Zope3, and not for your Python | 12:25 |
| headgoat | for zope3, yes | 12:25 |
| mgedmin | headgoat, just apt-get install python2.4 python2.4-dev python2.4-xml | 12:25 |
| mgedmin | and ./configure Zope3 with /usr/bin/python2.4 | 12:25 |
| mgedmin | I'm not sure python2.4-xml is necessary | 12:26 |
| mgedmin | but I have it installed, and Z3 works just fine on my Ubuntu system | 12:26 |
| d2m | mine too | 12:26 |
| headgoat | the problems I was running into on FC3 were python XML related (yesterday) | 12:26 |
| mgedmin | headgoat, you might also want to install python2.4-profiler, just in case | 12:26 |
| mgedmin | one upon a time the Zope 3 test script tried to import it, just in case you wanted to profile your unit tests | 12:27 |
| SteveA | i think that's in multiverse | 12:27 |
| SteveA | as it isn't free software | 12:27 |
| headgoat | is there anything I need to do to "undo" the fact that I installed Python 2.4.2 in usr/local/bin ? (like fix the path, or do an install on the ubuntu version?) | 12:28 |
| headgoat | ..of python | 12:29 |
| headgoat | i don't see python2.4-profiler in the Synaptic list of packages. hmm | 12:30 |
| mgedmin | headgoat, I think not | 12:30 |
| mgedmin | forget about python2.4-profiler | 12:30 |
| mgedmin | unless you see errors with 'import profile' or 'import hotshot.stats' | 12:30 |
| * mgedmin wonders if Python supports 'make uninstall' | 12:31 | |
| SteveA | http://www.ubuntulinux.org/ubuntu/components | 12:31 |
| SteveA | this explains how to enable 'multiverse' in which is the python2.4-profiler | 12:31 |
| SteveA | you need to do this before synaptic will show you python2.4-profiler | 12:32 |
| headgoat | ok, now it looks like we have gone from bad to worse... :) I did the synaptic installation of python2.4-dev (python2.4 was already installed), and I did ./configure to point to the old ubuntu system-installed python | 12:32 |
| headgoat | and make, and then make check... and I get.... | 12:33 |
| headgoat | No module named app.testing.test | 12:33 |
| headgoat | (on the line import zope.app.testing.test | 12:33 |
| d2m | headgoat: packages installed from synaptic don't need an additional manual install | 12:34 |
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| mgedmin | interesting | 12:34 |
| mgedmin | perhaps you have stale files somewhere? | 12:34 |
| mgedmin | is there a 'make clean'? | 12:34 |
| mgedmin | perhaps you need to rm config.cache before rerunning ./configure? | 12:34 |
| headgoat | no rule to make target 'clean' | 12:34 |
| d2m | headgoat: i would not replace the system-installed python anyway | 12:35 |
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| headgoat | dm2 ... I wasnt trying to do an additional manual install.. I was trying to manually install zope | 12:35 |
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| d2m | headgoat: ah, ok - zope3.1 now take python2.4 if its found | 12:36 |
| headgoat | rm: cannot remove 'config.cache' No such file or directory | 12:36 |
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| mgedmin | perhaps it is called configure.cache | 12:37 |
| mgedmin | hey, wait -- zope 3 doesn't use autoconf, does it? | 12:37 |
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| mgedmin | it just has a custom script called 'configure' | 12:37 |
| mgedmin | if so, forget about autoconf caches | 12:37 |
| headgoat | yeah, i dont see a cache | 12:38 |
| * mgedmin usually uses subversion sandboxes | 12:38 | |
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| headgoat | I am not overlooking anyone's suggestion here, am I? | 12:38 |
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| d2m | headgoat: in the folder you extraced zope3.1.0 in: just run ./configure -- it tells you which pythons are found and which on is taken | 12:39 |
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| headgoat | ok, i pasted again at paste.plone.org/491 | 12:40 |
| headgoat | eek 419 | 12:40 |
| headgoat | There are 3 Pythons. I selected the system one. | 12:41 |
| d2m | headgoat: it clearly states: "No suitable Python version found. You should install ..." | 12:41 |
| d2m | headgoat: you could adjust the Makefile though | 12:41 |
| mgedmin | it's just z3 being conservative | 12:42 |
| mgedmin | python 2.4.2 should work | 12:43 |
| d2m | headgoat: i have not tried zope with python2.4.2 though | 12:43 |
| d2m | ok | 12:43 |
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| mgedmin | headgoat, you clearly still have the C extension modules you compiled against the locally installed python | 12:43 |
| mgedmin | because 'make' didn't compile anything | 12:43 |
| mgedmin | I wonder if that causes your problem | 12:43 |
| mgedmin | headgoat, try rm -r build; make | 12:44 |
| headgoat | so, yes, I DO need to do something to un-install the local installation? | 12:44 |
| mgedmin | just remove the 'build' directory in your Zope 3 tree | 12:44 |
| mgedmin | and re-run 'make' | 12:44 |
| d2m | headgoat: in the script 'configure' change ACCEPTABLE="2.3.5 2.4.1" to ACCEPTABLE="2.3.5 2.4.2" | 12:44 |
| mgedmin | d2m's suggestion will get rid of the configure warning about suitable versions | 12:45 |
| mgedmin | but won't change anything else | 12:45 |
| mgedmin | I think | 12:45 |
| d2m | and you need to change the TARGET version too | 12:45 |
| headgoat | ok, i did the rm -r build and then a make. for now, I am not changing the acceptable version line (one thing at a time here) | 12:46 |
| d2m | mgedmin: ok, --with-python should overrule the config values, right | 12:47 |
| headgoat | ..and i get a lot of warnings on the make (so at least it did SOMETHING). 'make check' fails with the "No Module app.testing.test" again | 12:47 |
| headgoat | by the way, THANK YOU, guys for helping. even if we don't get anywhere. | 12:47 |
| mgedmin | hum-de-dum | 12:48 |
| mgedmin | paste.plone.org? | 12:48 |
| mgedmin | what are those warnings? | 12:48 |
| headgoat | ok, pasted @ #421' | 12:48 |
| * mgedmin yearns for a full URL that he could click on | 12:48 | |
| headgoat | ah sorry. (if it were on this system, i'd have given it! ) http://paste.plone.org/421 | 12:49 |
| headgoat | keep in mind, I am a PHB... so I don't do this often | 12:49 |
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| mgedmin | this is interesting | 12:50 |
| headgoat | The "signedness" warnings are consistent with what I was seeing when I tried to install on FC3 yesterday | 12:50 |
| mgedmin | let me see if I have a z3.1 tarball somewhere | 12:51 |
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| headgoat | (keep in mind that the plone 421 paste is on ubuntu) | 12:51 |
| mgedmin | yep, I do | 12:51 |
| mgedmin | I use Ubuntu, with great pleasure | 12:51 |
| headgoat | well, my Linux experience is just about a day, and installations of FC3, Knoppix, and Ubuntu. somehow I should be able to get zope to work! | 12:53 |
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| sashav | anyone done pygoogle SearchResults adpatation to RDF? | 12:54 |
| mgedmin | works for me: http://paste.plone.org/422 | 12:54 |
| d2m | sashav: maybe #swig ? lots of RDF heads there | 12:55 |
| headgoat | mgedmin: yup, wanna come here and make this work? | 12:56 |
| mgedmin | headgoat, where are you? :-) | 12:56 |
| mgedmin | headgoat, I notice that you have python2.4.2, whil I have python2.4.1 | 12:57 |
| mgedmin | I run Ubuntu hoary | 12:57 |
| mgedmin | python 2.4.2 is in Ubuntu breezy | 12:57 |
| headgoat | i downloaded the latest (probably experimental) | 12:58 |
| mgedmin | there's also a zope3 package (version 3.1.0-1) in Ubuntu breezy | 12:58 |
| mgedmin | why don't you try apt-get install zope3? | 12:58 |
| headgoat | is breezy ubuntu 5.10? | 12:58 |
| mgedmin | headgoat, breezy is about two days from the release | 12:58 |
| mgedmin | it should be pretty stable by now | 12:58 |
| headgoat | ok, am i on breezy? | 12:59 |
| headgoat | <--- clueless | 12:59 |
| mgedmin | breezy will become 5.10 once it is released (october 13th) | 12:59 |
| headgoat | ok, i downloaded 5.10 when I started this (maybe 6 hours ago) | 12:59 |
| headgoat | so I am pretty current | 12:59 |
| mgedmin | then try apt-get install zope3 | 12:59 |
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| headgoat | i am getting a permission denied (unable to lock list directory) | 13:00 |
| headgoat | sudo it? | 13:01 |
| mgedmin | yep -- or just use Synaptic | 13:01 |
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| headgoat | this looks promising | 13:02 |
| headgoat | anyone have experience in the RestrictedPython in zope? | 13:03 |
| headgoat | ok, the apt-get completed (hard to say if it was successful)... how can i tell? (it ended with *Zope3: no instances found. Setting up python-docutils (...) | 13:03 |
| headgoat | well.. this was huge progress... thanks! Now I'll try the Zope Book, and see if we're up and running | 13:06 |
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| mgedmin | headgoat, I haven't used that package myself -- I suspect SteveA could help you more here | 13:07 |
| mgedmin | I think you now can use /usr/bin/mkzope3instance to create an instance directory etc. | 13:07 |
| mgedmin | the Zope Book should provide instructions | 13:07 |
| SteveA | not sure why you'd want to use RestrictedPython. | 13:07 |
| * mgedmin had the Ubuntu zope3 package in mind, not RestrictedPython | 13:09 | |
| headgoat | (I asked about RestrictedPython, for a project that I am looking at - which would allow an untrusted script to be entered by a user) | 13:11 |
| * jinty had heard that dzhandle was the best way to create zope instances on Debian/Ubuntu | 13:13 | |
| *** ChanServ sets mode: +o srichter | 13:13 | |
| * srichter made it back to the US just fine and got a lot of sleep last night :-) | 13:17 | |
| headgoat | so, when i got zope3 using apt-get, did it install it? or just get it? (I am not finding it, to do my makezope3instance command) | 13:18 |
| mgedmin | headgoat, you did install it | 13:18 |
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| headgoat | yes, i did sudo apt-get install zope3 ... I am looking around in the file system and not really "finding it" | 13:19 |
| headgoat | i figure I need to "cd" to the right directory, to be able to do a makezope3instance | 13:20 |
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| jinty | headgoat: seriously, try dzhandle. | 13:29 |
| headgoat | k, sorry for being new. looks like I have some reading to do. dzhandle displays help, so looks like it's installed. | 13:32 |
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| matt_ | headgoat: also to see what apt-get installs, use dpkg -L <package_name> | 14:18 |
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| regebro | Hiya all! | 14:29 |
| regebro | Lets see now, if I get this correctly... | 14:29 |
| regebro | To register say a local utility in a local service (yeah, this is 3.0.0), I need to: | 14:30 |
| regebro | 1. Make sure the localutilityservice has a registry, and if not, create it. | 14:30 |
| regebro | 2. Create a registration object for the local utility. | 14:30 |
| regebro | 3. get the registry from the local utility service. | 14:31 |
| regebro | 4. register the local utility. | 14:31 |
| headgoat | matt_ thanks (i am a linux user fresh out of diapers) | 14:31 |
| regebro | Is that correct, or am I way off? | 14:31 |
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| _projekt01 | srichter, ayt? | 14:41 |
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| srichter | projekt01: yeah | 14:44 |
| projekt01 | are you awake? | 14:44 |
| projekt01 | srichter, can I use the viewlet package for implement the boston skin? | 14:45 |
| MacYET | . | 14:46 |
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| srichter | projekt01: yep | 14:49 |
| srichter | projekt01: I had a good night's sleep last night | 14:49 |
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| srichter | projekt01: yes, it is pretty close to where we want to go; I am pretty sure that if there are API changes now, they are small | 14:50 |
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| srichter | projekt01: have you had a chance to work on th eportlet stuff again? | 14:54 |
| srichter | tziade: hope you had a good trip home | 14:56 |
| tziade | hi srichter, yes i did thanks | 14:56 |
| tziade | what about you ? | 14:57 |
| headgoat | ok, I am still getting stuck on the basics. Now zope is installed on ubuntu. I see a lot of docs telling me how to start zope, and create an instance. None seem to be working. I tried mkzopeinstance and various guesses at dzhandle. Just not getting started here! | 14:57 |
| projekt01 | srichter, no I tested pdftemplate for the sprint today. They are really great with tiny RML. | 14:58 |
| projekt01 | srichter, but I will start tonight.... | 14:58 |
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| srichter | tziade: all went well | 14:59 |
| srichter | projekt01: cool | 14:59 |
| tziade | cool | 14:59 |
| projekt01 | are the viewlet ready to use as a base for portlet? | 15:00 |
| srichter | tziade: did you send a message concerning performance tests to zope3-dev (I am still catching up)? | 15:00 |
| srichter | projekt01: yeah, I will work on it today as soon as I got some basic catching up done | 15:00 |
| tziade | srichter, yes i did | 15:01 |
| srichter | projekt01: I really want to announce a stable API and discuss the inclusion | 15:01 |
| srichter | tziade: great | 15:01 |
| projekt01 | If somebody is interested, you can try it from: svn://svn.tiks.org/repos/Collective/pdftemplate | 15:01 |
| tziade | i explained a bit what we've thaught of | 15:01 |
| srichter | projekt01: do you have an example template of this somewhere? | 15:01 |
| srichter | tziade: great, thanks | 15:02 |
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| srichter | tziade: have you written your blog entry already; I want to use it as a base for the Wiki update? :-) | 15:02 |
| srichter | headgoat: ask jinty; he is the packager for Ubuntu; a lot of us do not use this system and thus cannot give you an answer | 15:03 |
| projekt01 | samples are included you just have to install RML from reportlab and perhaps PIL if you whant to see the image or charts. | 15:03 |
| tziade | srichter, not yet, i'll probably do it sometimes today, i'll let you know when it's online | 15:04 |
| srichter | ok, thanks | 15:05 |
| headgoat | srichter, thanks. i'll check with jinty. I think I am close to the starting line here... it's been frustrating just getting started. Not sure how you guys did it | 15:05 |
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| srichter | projekt01: do you have a HTML URL for the pdftemplate? | 15:06 |
| srichter | headgoat: well, we are usually working with the checkout or the source release | 15:06 |
| headgoat | srichter: ok. is there no simple "create an instance and start zope" process? I looked on http://www.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/Zope3Book/installzope3.html and it just doesn't work (or i am stoopid, or both) | 15:08 |
| projekt01 | srichter, no we are at the ETH and we don't have a public URL. | 15:09 |
| srichter | headgoat: I think the online version does not have the latest version that works with the releases | 15:09 |
| srichter | I know the paper copy does work well | 15:09 |
| srichter | projekt01: ok | 15:10 |
| headgoat | srichter: ok, thanks. maybe i should step back and get an older version (not zope 3?) I hate learning the old stuff, but perhaps that's the safest route | 15:11 |
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| srichter | headgoat: well, it depends what you want to do | 15:13 |
| headgoat | learn zope | 15:13 |
| srichter | headgoat: if you have a non-CMS-like project I would definitely recommend Zope 3 | 15:13 |
| srichter | headgoat: you are the first who ever reported such problems | 15:14 |
| headgoat | srichter: i think my problems are that I am brand new to linux and just don't know where to start | 15:14 |
| headgoat | srichter: and the docs are just slightly different. | 15:14 |
| headgoat | srichter: I am used to the windows world. Put a CD in, and it all installs, and the GUI walks you through the "idiot-proof" version and gets you up and running | 15:15 |
| srichter | headgoat: ok, in that case follow SteveA's advice and install the Ubuntu developer packages; automake, autoconf, make, GCC, bison, ... | 15:16 |
| srichter | headgoat: note that for Windows you can download a nice installer :-) | 15:16 |
| headgoat | srichter: yeah. maybe I am biting off too much at once. I'm sort of using zope as an excuse to learn linux. | 15:18 |
| srichter | I see; good excuse :-) | 15:18 |
| srichter | headgoat: note that I don't think that Ubuntu is the best distro for a newcomer | 15:18 |
| srichter | headgoat: I use Mandrake for example, which has a nicer and more centralized configuration system | 15:18 |
| headgoat | well.. FC3 and zope3 weren't working at all! (probably user-error, i admit) | 15:19 |
| headgoat | i just need that big "install" button, with an optional EULA that pledges my first-born | 15:19 |
| headgoat | Bill Gates has me trained well | 15:20 |
| srichter | Mandrake is nicer, since it has some high-level options, including one called "Developer Tools" (or similar) during install, so you get going faster | 15:20 |
| headgoat | there's a web-based management interface for Zope, right? If I could just get that up, I'd call it a successful day! | 15:21 |
| headgoat | but http://localhost:9673/manage is refused | 15:22 |
| headgoat | i try random commands, not sure why i can't figure this out! ;) | 15:22 |
| headgoat | dzhandle will give me the help. It seems i need to set up a zope instance, and then start it, but can't find the commands to do so. | 15:24 |
| srichter | how did you get Zope started? | 15:24 |
| srichter | where did your Zope install? | 15:24 |
| srichter | try to find a script called mkzopeinstance.py on your computer | 15:24 |
| headgoat | not quite sure WHERE.. but I did a package install | 15:24 |
| srichter | find / -name mkzopeinstance.py | 15:25 |
| headgoat | i searched for zope, and there was no mkzopeinstance.py. I'll try the find command | 15:25 |
| headgoat | but mkzopeinstance seems to be an option under dzhandle | 15:25 |
| srichter | I do not know what dzhandle is | 15:25 |
| srichter | this is not a standard Zope 3 tool | 15:26 |
| matt_ | dzhandle — Debian/Ubuntu Zope packages handling command line utility | 15:26 |
| srichter | sigh | 15:27 |
| matt_ | if understand correctly, you can use commands like : dzhandle make-instance <name> and dzhandle zopectrl start | 15:27 |
| * srichter is not sure whether this is a good thing | 15:27 | |
| matt_ | this seems to be convoluted imho | 15:27 |
| headgoat | ok. remember just a bit ago, i said i may go to an earlier version of zope .. well I did the package install (then) of Zope 2.8. And the only place that mkzopeinstance is found is... in a 2.8 directory | 15:27 |
| srichter | if Ubuntu provides such tools, they need to document them as well | 15:27 |
| headgoat | /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/zope/app/server/mkzopeinstance.py AND | 15:28 |
| srichter | headgoat: that is horrible | 15:28 |
| matt_ | i agree | 15:28 |
| headgoat | /usr/lib/zope2.8/lib/python/zope/app/server/mkzopeinstance.py AND | 15:29 |
| headgoat | /usr/lib/zope2.8/bin/mkzopeinstance.py AND | 15:29 |
| matt_ | i'd recommend apt-get remove --purge zope3* and following the install instructions as documented by zope.org | 15:29 |
| headgoat | oops.. no more AND | 15:29 |
| srichter | headgoat: in that case I would suggest one of the two following things: (1) Install the developer tools and install the source, or (2) Install a different distribution that makes it easier to install the source | 15:29 |
| headgoat | matt_: would you suggest zope 3 or zope2.8 | 15:29 |
| headgoat | matt_: would you suggest *installing* zope 3 or zope2.8 | 15:30 |
| matt_ | zope3 imho | 15:31 |
| matt_ | as you are just learning linux, i'd suggest you learn more about commands and how unix works first | 15:31 |
| headgoat | shoot, I am not opposed to blowing away the whole operating system and reformatting - its a brand new system (8 hours old) | 15:31 |
| headgoat | well.. *unix* i was trained on, 20 years ago | 15:31 |
| matt_ | then you just need a refresher:) | 15:32 |
| headgoat | many beers ago, and many years of windows and other stuff. I was trained on HP-UX. | 15:32 |
| headgoat | so much has changed! | 15:32 |
| headgoat | ok. I'll give this a try, and quit buggin ya! Thanks for all the help! | 15:33 |
| headgoat | (I'm sure I'll be asking more tonight... a few more all-nighters, and I'll get this) | 15:33 |
| d2m | zope3.1.0 installer on windows: there is no install instruction, no programm group created -- when did this change ? | 15:35 |
| matt_ | headgoat: good luck, i'd suggest asking linux specific questions on a ubuntu/linux channel, since this is for zope3 developement, try #ubuntu at irc.freenode.org :p | 15:36 |
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| srichter | d2m: I dunno, I just know Tim creates some sort of Windows Installer | 15:41 |
| philiKON | srichter, mkzopeinstance script is at /usr/lib/zope3/ | 15:42 |
| philiKON | in debian | 15:42 |
| d2m | srichter: just writing to the mailing list to create some startup documentation | 15:42 |
| regebro | Heads up: Anybody who want to take a look at the Five branch for local sitemanagers (regebro-sitemanager) should do it today, I'll probably merge them tomorrow. | 15:46 |
| srichter | philiKON: oh, its without .py, ok | 15:49 |
| philiKON | of course | 15:49 |
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| srichter | mkerrin: I hope you got home well too | 16:11 |
| srichter | (and caught up with sleep ;-) | 16:12 |
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| philiKON | srichter, are you guys still sprinting? | 16:18 |
| srichter | nope, I am back in USSR^M^MA | 16:18 |
| philiKON | :) | 16:19 |
| matt_ | who is the best person to speak to about contributing to zope3? I've checked out the dev docs at zope3.org, and read about the fishbowl process | 16:20 |
| matt_ | some of dev docs seem out of date, or at least dating 2001/2002, so I thought I'd ask here ^__^ | 16:20 |
| philiKON | matt_, well much of the contributing process hasn't changed | 16:21 |
| philiKON | matt_, if you want to contribute, it's best to sign the Contributor AGreement | 16:21 |
| philiKON | (it's in the wiki) | 16:21 |
| philiKON | and mail that to ZC | 16:21 |
| philiKON | then you get svn access | 16:21 |
| MacYET | the z2 fishbowl proposals have nothing to do with Z3 | 16:21 |
| philiKON | ? | 16:21 |
| matt_ | ok, will read further. thanks philiKON | 16:21 |
| matt_ | MacYET: the fishbowl process is linked from the Developers/zope3 section of zope.org, so I'm assuming it's still relevant | 16:22 |
| philiKON | matt_, as for contributing, if it's just bugfixes, it's best to first open an issue in the collector (even if you're going to fix it yourself), then fix it and then close the collector issue :) | 16:22 |
| philiKON | matt_, as for new features, please write a proposal and ask for RFC on zope3-dev@zope.org | 16:22 |
| matt_ | well, I have some spare time on my hands at the moment while i'm looking for work, and I've always wanted to contribute, and now feel that I'm able - generally i just wanna help out! :p | 16:23 |
| srichter | of course you can just pick up approved/discussed proposals as well | 16:23 |
| philiKON | indeed | 16:23 |
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| srichter | matt_: best is to fax or send a scanned version via E-mail to jim at zope . com | 16:23 |
| srichter | matt_: you can have access to the Zope 3 repo today :-) | 16:24 |
| matt_ | okies, thanks srichter , will read up more first before I do :) | 16:24 |
| matt_ | lol scanned? ;) | 16:25 |
| srichter | yeah, because it is much faster | 16:25 |
| srichter | with people developing from all over the world, snail mail can be a real bottleneck | 16:26 |
| matt_ | oic | 16:27 |
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| mkerrin | srichter: got home fine - did you get anything interesting done on the Sunday | 16:40 |
| srichter | mkerrin: Tarek did some performance testing support written, that should be discussed on the mailing list soon | 16:42 |
| srichter | mkerrin: we kept working on the viewlet stuff and claerified our goals further and tweaked the API | 16:42 |
| srichter | mkerrin: Uwe almost got to the point to have a working system | 16:42 |
| philiKON | srichter, btw, are we still on for Zope 3.1.1 around November 2? | 16:48 |
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| mkerrin | srichter: cool - I need to take a look at the performacne stuff, sounds interesting | 16:48 |
| srichter | yeah | 16:50 |
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| srichter | philiKON: I would have complained, if I had disagreed :-) | 16:50 |
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| * philiKON tries to grok that sentence :) | 16:51 | |
| philiKON | srichter, anyways, was just going to remind you that i'm countin on that release | 16:51 |
| philiKON | but it looks like you saw the posting on the mailinglist (just understood the sentence) | 16:51 |
| philiKON | :) | 16:51 |
| philiKON | srichter, btw, i'm a bit worried that we're running the twisted trunk here.... | 16:52 |
| srichter | we will switch to the 2.1 branch soon | 16:52 |
| srichter | note that the trunk is currently feature frozen | 16:52 |
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| srichter | I have to coordinate with James this week how this can be best accomplished. | 16:53 |
| philiKON | ah, good | 16:53 |
| philiKON | i would even feel safer with a tag, like we do it with zodb and zope.testing | 16:53 |
| srichter | I am not sure if web2 will also be branched with 2.1, because it is not part of that release | 16:54 |
| srichter | feel free to have a look | 16:54 |
| srichter | the only issue is to see whether web2 is part of the branch or not | 16:54 |
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| philiKON | oic | 16:54 |
| philiKON | well, i don't really care which branch the tag is off | 16:55 |
| philiKON | i could also settle with tags off of the trunk | 16:55 |
| srichter | I think we should be using vendor imports for twisted anyways | 16:55 |
| philiKON | as long as we have a "reliable" source of twisted | 16:55 |
| philiKON | that doesnt' change by the minute | 16:55 |
| srichter | I do not feel comfortable with relying on their SVN | 16:55 |
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| philiKON | yeah, possibly | 16:55 |
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| srichter | I would think we want a repos/main/vendor-imports folder in which we palce the code and then we use externals to that link | 16:56 |
| mkerrin | really needed - the FTP interfaces went and changed on us since I left on Saturday :-) | 17:01 |
| srichter | :-( | 17:01 |
| mkerrin | should have it fixed this evening after work | 17:02 |
| philiKON | there you go | 17:02 |
| srichter | mkerrin: can you figure out whether the 2.1 branch is (1) already created, and (2) contains the web2 package? | 17:02 |
| srichter | those guys don't keep their word ;-( | 17:03 |
| philiKON | well, it's the trunk | 17:03 |
| philiKON | that's what i'm saying... | 17:03 |
| runyaga | scream bloody murder | 17:05 |
| srichter | wow, runyaga is actively lurking these days :-) | 17:05 |
| runyaga | we are using z3 more and more | 17:05 |
| runyaga | btw: you guys doing twisted integration - really is awesome - keep up the amazing werk | 17:06 |
| srichter | via Five or directly> | 17:06 |
| runyaga | both | 17:06 |
| runyaga | we have frontends for our web environments in z3 w/o zodb | 17:07 |
| srichter | runyaga: most thanks should be directed to mkerrin for doing the really painful work and to Itamar for pushing a fix of FTP for us | 17:07 |
| runyaga | mkerrin, you rock | 17:07 |
| srichter | runyaga: ahh, very cool | 17:07 |
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| mkerrin | there is no 2.1 branch I can see - so a vendor import is my preference at the moment. There is also an issue with web2 on Windows | 17:12 |
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| mkerrin | which I think might be fixed - but I can't test this until later. | 17:13 |
| philiKON | is this error normal on the trunk: OSError: [Errno 24] Too many open files: '/tmp/tmpjEysgh' | 17:23 |
| philiKON | ? | 17:23 |
| philiKON | srichter, mkerrin ? | 17:23 |
| philiKON | when running tests | 17:23 |
| srichter | which test? | 17:25 |
| srichter | it should not happen; I have not seen that one yet | 17:25 |
| mkerrin | I haven't seen this either - do you have a traceback | 17:26 |
| philiKON | hang on | 17:26 |
| philiKON | mkerrin, srichter, http://paste.plone.org/425 | 17:27 |
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| srichter | mmh, those are publisher tests failing | 17:29 |
| srichter | really strane | 17:29 |
| srichter | really strange | 17:29 |
| philiKON | i also get this after the end of ftests: http://paste.plone.org/426 | 17:29 |
| philiKON | note i'm running python2.4.1 | 17:30 |
| philiKON | should upgrade to 2.4.2 maybe | 17:30 |
| philiKON | though we do only require 2.4.1 i think (might be the end of that) | 17:30 |
| srichter | I only have 2.4.1 or even 2.4 | 17:31 |
| philiKON | ic | 17:33 |
| philiKON | srichter, btw, why wasn't ClientCookie simply added to Zope3/src ? | 17:34 |
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| philiKON | would've saved you from mangling with its source... | 17:34 |
| philiKON | same goes for mechanize, i guess | 17:35 |
| srichter | no, mechanize is optimized and the changes have not been released | 17:36 |
| srichter | I could have, but I wanted to keep all this stuff together for now | 17:36 |
| mkerrin | I wonder if it is a Mac thing - I'll try and reproduce on my laptop - this will take a while - it is a slow laptop | 17:36 |
| philiKON | yeah, i'm on mac | 17:37 |
| mkerrin | this is going to take a while longer - I will get back to you | 17:40 |
| philiKON | ok, thanks | 17:40 |
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| srichter | tziade: can you create a branch for your perfomance test work? | 17:57 |
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| tziade | srichter, yup | 18:02 |
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| philiKON | srichter, i have a question about zope.app.apidoc.classregistry.safe_import | 18:02 |
| tziade | srichter, i've blogged the summary here: http://blogs.nuxeo.com/sections/blogs/tarek_ziade/2005_10_11_neckar-zope-3-sprint | 18:02 |
| srichter | philiKON: ok, though I am not sure I can answer it :-) | 18:03 |
| philiKON | srichter, where do i have to tweak if a class that is somehow imported by safe_import (no idea where) is deprecation-proxied | 18:03 |
| philiKON | IOW, i don't want the deprecationwarning for the functional test... | 18:03 |
| srichter | just turn of the deprecation warning stuff before you make the ftest call | 18:04 |
| srichter | maybe providing some high-level API for this would be nice | 18:04 |
| philiKON | well, i have no idea where the call to safe_import is triggered | 18:05 |
| srichter | tziade: thanks | 18:05 |
| tziade | np | 18:07 |
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| philiKON | srichter, i now get ftest failures in zope.testbrowser | 18:28 |
| philiKON | ah, wait, it's in over_the_wire | 18:29 |
| philiKON | ah, wait, it's in over_the_wire.txt | 18:29 |
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| srichter | philiKON: let me know what you get there... | 18:29 |
| srichter | philiKON: I tried to fix that failure while I was in Germany, but it did not work | 18:30 |
| srichter | philiKON: I tried to fix that failure while I was in Germany, but it might not be flexible enough | 18:30 |
| philiKON | man, this sucks. i'm actually trying to work on the trunk here, but i keep running into test failures that aren't mine... | 18:30 |
| srichter | philiKON: maybe it would be better to do the over-the-wire test for zope.org | 18:30 |
| philiKON | why do we need an over-the-wire test at all? | 18:31 |
| philiKON | what if i'm running tests offline? | 18:31 |
| philiKON | http://paste.plone.org/429 | 18:31 |
| srichter | that's exactely what seems to happen | 18:32 |
| srichter | mayube we should make this a level 2 test | 18:32 |
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| philiKON | now the testbrowser ftests pass again | 18:33 |
| srichter | (it was certainly not the test failure I had before) | 18:33 |
| srichter | it really seemed like a connection issue | 18:33 |
| philiKON | yes, well, zope tests should be runnable w/o an inet connection, imo | 18:34 |
| srichter | I am pretty sure benji simply sis not think about that | 18:34 |
| philiKON | benji_york, ping | 18:35 |
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| philiKON | srichter, so, what does it take to at least disable this test for normal people like me? | 18:43 |
| srichter | you have to declare this test to be level 2 | 18:44 |
| philiKON | how do i do this? | 18:44 |
| srichter | mmh, I forgot, but it is a unittest feature | 18:45 |
| srichter | you either have to set the level on the class or the module | 18:45 |
| srichter | level = 2 | 18:46 |
| srichter | check out zope.i18n.locales | 18:46 |
| tziade | srichter, the zope.org cache is so strange: i am getting mails from the wiki upate and i cannot see the changes on the page yet :) | 18:46 |
| srichter | yep | 18:47 |
| srichter | use ?whatever behind the urls | 18:47 |
| philiKON | or do a hard reload in your browser | 18:47 |
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| tziade | oki | 18:47 |
| philiKON | usually Ctrl+reload button | 18:47 |
| tziade | oh yes that worked, thx guys | 18:48 |
| philiKON | srichter, and if it's a docfile test? | 18:48 |
| srichter | it should work too | 18:49 |
| srichter | docfile tests are also jsut unittest test cases | 18:49 |
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| philiKON | so i say DocFileTestSuite(..., level=2)? | 18:51 |
| philiKON | srichter, btw, do you mind if disable the FTP server again? | 18:52 |
| philiKON | it used to be disabled by default... | 18:52 |
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| srichter | Neckar sprint summary: http://www.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/NeckarSprint | 18:53 |
| srichter | philiKON: feel free to disable it; I thought Michael had done that | 18:54 |
| srichter | philiKON: I am not sure whether a kw arg will work | 18:54 |
| srichter | but setting the attribute on the isntance should | 18:54 |
| philiKON | not sure, because the test suite is usually scrapped by the testrunner | 18:55 |
| philiKON | so, i would have to set the attribute on the doctestcase | 18:55 |
| philiKON | no idea how to get at it... | 18:55 |
| srichter | mmh, let me look at SchoolBell | 18:55 |
| srichter | you can set the level on the FunctionalDocFileSuite | 18:57 |
| srichter | that's what schooltool does | 18:57 |
| srichter | and it works | 18:57 |
| philiKON | got a code snippet that i can see? | 18:57 |
| srichter | suite = FunctionalDocFileSuite(filename, package=package, | 18:57 |
| srichter | optionflags=optionflags, | 18:57 |
| srichter | globs={'analyze': analyze, | 18:57 |
| srichter | 'rest': rest}) | 18:57 |
| srichter | if level is not None: | 18:57 |
| srichter | suite.level = level | 18:57 |
| philiKON | thanks | 18:57 |
| srichter | no problem | 18:58 |
| benji_york | philiKON, pong | 18:59 |
| philiKON | ah, just in time | 18:59 |
| philiKON | benji_york, zope.testbrowser/overthewire.txt is a bit annoying when you're developing offline | 18:59 |
| benji_york | I would think so :) | 19:00 |
| philiKON | with your permission i'll make it a level 2 test... | 19:00 |
| benji_york | sure, sounds good | 19:00 |
| philiKON | (i have no idea what that means, but srichter said that this would help me) | 19:00 |
| benji_york | :) | 19:00 |
| srichter | the thing is that we run only level 1 tests by default | 19:01 |
| benji_york | I think the ZODB, ZEO, and BTree tests should be level 2 also | 19:02 |
| philiKON | +1 | 19:02 |
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| dobee | hello, a question regarding i18n message id extraction: is it possible to somehow extract zope3 message ids at runtime to get composed message ids extracted? | 19:12 |
| philiKON | don't compose message ids | 19:13 |
| dobee | hm, that's what i thout would come ;-) | 19:14 |
| philiKON | :) | 19:14 |
| dobee | i'm currently porting a zope2 app to zope3 and there are composed message ids in the page templates, so i thought as a first step it would be fine to have something like in pts where you can extract runtime message ids | 19:15 |
| philiKON | weird. why doesn't unittest.TestSuite() not take a tuple for arguments anymore... it does everywhere else... | 19:15 |
| philiKON | dobee, compose message ids are evil, especially for translators | 19:15 |
| dobee | ok, i'll find my way around | 19:16 |
| philiKON | dobee, in 99% of the cases you can actually arrange your code so that the messages are complete and meaningful original sentences | 19:16 |
| dobee | but if i have a rdb that returns me some state ids let's say 'on' 'off' then I'd compose it to state_on state_of in order to not conflict with the words on off | 19:19 |
| philiKON | benji_york, i'm also taking the liberty of changing the license header to ZPL (not ZVSL), ok? | 19:19 |
| philiKON | dobee, use *explicit* message ids for that | 19:20 |
| philiKON | _(u'state-on', default=u'on') | 19:20 |
| philiKON | <p i18n:translate="state-on">on</p> | 19:20 |
| philiKON | same thing, different environments | 19:21 |
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| philiKON | benji_york, umm. all of zope.testbrowser is ZVSL... is that intended? | 19:21 |
| dobee | philiKON: but the 'on' 'off' part is dynamic | 19:22 |
| philiKON | i'm not going to change any license header then | 19:22 |
| philiKON | dobee, _(u"The current state is: ${state}", mapping={'state': the_state_as_a_unicode_string}) | 19:22 |
| philiKON | dobee, when you have dynamic parts in a user message, never ever split the strings up. it will just be hell for translators | 19:23 |
| philiKON | because you would be assuming that the split in the sentence is in the same place everywhere | 19:23 |
| philiKON | for eample | 19:23 |
| philiKON | page templates: <p i18n:translate="">The current state is: <span i18n:name="state" tal:replace="the_state_as_a_unicode_string" />.</p> | 19:24 |
| dobee | this in german would then be: Der Status ist: on | 19:25 |
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| philiKON | dobee, then translate "on" | 19:25 |
| philiKON | too | 19:25 |
| philiKON | and use explicit message ids there | 19:26 |
| philiKON | so translators know what "on" means (state-on) | 19:26 |
| dobee | yes but it does not get extracted | 19:26 |
| regebro | zpkg question: The dependencies all get packaged with the same package-version as the main package. | 19:27 |
| regebro | Can I fix that? | 19:27 |
| philiKON | dobee, it does, when you make an i18n:translate in there | 19:27 |
| philiKON | dobee, but unfortunately, afaik nested i18n:translates are not supported. which is a bug or, say, a misfeature IMO | 19:27 |
| philiKON | dobee, so, you might have to pre-translate that in python code | 19:27 |
| dobee | how can it be wenn the application does not run | 19:27 |
| dobee | only the db knows the states | 19:28 |
| philiKON | but you know the possible state choices, yes? | 19:28 |
| dobee | i think the only solution is to define message id constants in python somewhere | 19:28 |
| dobee | yes i know them | 19:29 |
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| dobee | either way, thx for the help | 19:30 |
| philiKON | yes, predefine them in python somewhere | 19:31 |
| philiKON | put a big comment there | 19:31 |
| philiKON | so it'll be nicely documented | 19:31 |
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| faassen | hey. | 19:40 |
| philiKON | hi faassen | 19:40 |
| mkerrin | philiKON: back to those failing tests on the Mac - I ran into the same problem and managed to get around it by running the command 'ulimit -n 1024' before I run the tests | 19:45 |
| philiKON | heh | 19:45 |
| philiKON | we might want to dcument that | 19:45 |
| philiKON | why the heck is it opnening so many files | 19:45 |
| philiKON | ? | 19:45 |
| philiKON | sorta scary.... | 19:46 |
| regebro | hi faassen | 19:46 |
| matt_ | runyaga: do you use sqlos/SQLObject for your front-ends? | 19:46 |
| srichter | faassen: btw, my goal was not to scare you off of zope3.org | 19:46 |
| srichter | faassen: we are fully open to the content; but collaboration was our first thought | 19:46 |
| philiKON | can't speak for faassen, but you certainly scared me off | 19:47 |
| philiKON | and you know that i've told you before that it would have been nice to at least receive a "heads up" on this | 19:47 |
| philiKON | something like "we're working on this, wait for our cool results" | 19:48 |
| philiKON | the NeckarSprint page until today didn't even have it as a bullet point | 19:48 |
| runyaga | no | 19:48 |
| runyaga | well.. sort of | 19:48 |
| runyaga | not really.. we use straight RDBMS calls - we need speed sqlos is an abstraction | 19:48 |
| mkerrin | philiKON: I have no idea where all the file handles are going - but I got the the number '1024' from my linux machine here at work. | 19:49 |
| faassen | srichter: I understand now. My first thought was marketing, as Zope 3 marketing sucks right now. when people list Python web frameworks they don't even *think* about listing Zope 3. Instead they list new kids on the block like TurboGears (which made slashdot yesterday) and Django. | 19:49 |
| matt_ | runyaga: so, do you have supporting objects that a persistent, or is everything stored in RDBMS via (i presume) z3 view classes | 19:50 |
| matt_ | ? | 19:50 |
| srichter | faassen: right, I totally agree | 19:50 |
| faassen | srichter: and the zope 3 wiki is not really good marketing, so sticking that under zope3.org would be less than ideal from my perspective. | 19:50 |
| srichter | I agree with that + what you said on the list | 19:51 |
| srichter | but we need the collaboration too | 19:51 |
| runyaga | matt_, we have XML on filesystemn, RDBMS for data, Views/PageTemplates/XSLT in Python + lxml | 19:51 |
| faassen | so in my mind when you mention zope3.org marketing and tutorials and documentation are my first thought. improved collaboration tools don't even feature, though I realize that the wiki on zope.org sucks and that there's som nice ideas to use HTML in a wiki and such. and I was thinking you ewre thinking to use this to build up a site without going full-blown CMS. | 19:51 |
| philiKON | srichter, agreed. but that can be achieved with simpler terms. and it certainly doesn't take its own domain name... | 19:51 |
| matt_ | runyaga: thanks, i just wanted to a get a picture of how one interacts with a rdbms w/out using sqlos :p | 19:52 |
| faassen | right, I hope we can agree we don't want to reserve zope3.org for the dev wiki. :) | 19:52 |
| srichter | we are definitely not going full-blown CMS | 19:52 |
| faassen | right, I understand. | 19:52 |
| srichter | faassen: absolutely | 19:52 |
| philiKON | get a fresh zope2 instance, install PAS for ldap auth and a zwiki2 | 19:52 |
| philiKON | done | 19:52 |
| runyaga | matt_, sqlos is great for say.. edit forms | 19:52 |
| philiKON | no need to waste resources on a zope 3 homegrown system | 19:52 |
| faassen | so using a wiki to manage an open source site is actually quite a nice idea which I've seen used fairly succesfully for other projects. | 19:52 |
| matt_ | runyaga: yeh, it seems like a cool thing, but i couldn't get it working with MySQL. I grok SQLObject, and most of z3, but not MySQL+z3+sqlos :s | 19:53 |
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| srichter | faassen: and even better, they are just simple files :-) | 19:55 |
| srichter | no special wiki object | 19:55 |
| srichter | philiKON: building a site based on Zope 3 is like the most important marketing argument | 19:55 |
| faassen | not if it's like zope.org :) | 19:55 |
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| philiKON | srichter, sure | 19:56 |
| faassen | (I know that isn't being proposed :) | 19:56 |
| sm | hi all | 19:56 |
| sm | have you guys seen http://zopewiki.org ? if not please check it out for ideas, I think it's a site that's working | 19:56 |
| mgedmin | the big red "don't panic" badge scared me! | 19:57 |
| sm | really ? it's supposed to reassure :) | 19:58 |
| faassen | sm: I agree that it's working. :) | 19:58 |
| philiKON | zopewiki.org rocks | 19:58 |
| srichter | sm: yep, this is very nice; we have looked at it to get ideas | 19:58 |
| sm | ah good | 19:58 |
| sm | (and thanks) | 19:58 |
| srichter | and took it a step further in saying: wikification like that should work with a generic file (which is possible in Z3) | 19:59 |
| runyaga | matt_, why couldnt you get mysql to work - do you have transaction aware mysql? | 19:59 |
| * sm looks forward to seeing the new thing in action | 20:00 | |
| matt_ | yep, i was using a db with an existing schema, so __fromDatabase = True. it was some time ago, perhaps I'll give it another crack since i've learnt more since | 20:00 |
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| regebro | OK, more ZPKG questions: | 20:03 |
| regebro | How do I specify that I want to include a file, outside of the src directory? | 20:03 |
| srichter | regebro: you do that in your main distribution file | 20:04 |
| regebro | Which is the main distribution file? | 20:04 |
| srichter | see releases/Zope/PACKAGE.cfg | 20:04 |
| srichter | all the stuff listed in distribution there should go in the top level dir if I remember correctly | 20:05 |
| regebro | I tried that, but i was not able to specify the file. | 20:05 |
| regebro | the file is in ../../ relative to the PACKAGE file. | 20:05 |
| srichter | see the load tag above | 20:05 |
| regebro | OK, thanks. | 20:05 |
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| faassen | anyway, I'm out of here now, see you all later. | 20:11 |
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| regebro | srichter: OK, that got the files included, but it doesn't get into the top level dir at all, but in the subdir with the main package... | 20:14 |
| srichter | strange | 20:14 |
| srichter | I forgot the details, but I know we are doing this for sure | 20:15 |
| srichter | with a README.txt file | 20:15 |
| regebro | Can I force a PACKAGE.cfg for the root distribution even if it is not a resource in itself? | 20:15 |
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| srichter | regebro: mmh, better ask Fred :-) | 20:16 |
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| regebro | srichter: OK. :) | 20:16 |
| regebro | srichter: Ah, hang on, it got loaded into the package root *and* the calcore subdirectory... | 20:19 |
| regebro | I can survive that. | 20:19 |
| srichter | :-) | 20:20 |
| regebro | The Support directory includes ZConfig and zpkg stuff, I don't need that, right? | 20:20 |
| srichter | it probably did that so you don't loose the documentation after isntall | 20:20 |
| regebro | Could be. | 20:21 |
| srichter | yes, that is needed for the install | 20:21 |
| srichter | but it will not be isntalled of course | 20:21 |
| srichter | it's just part of the package to support the framework | 20:21 |
| regebro | ok. | 20:21 |
| philiKON | zpkgsupport needs to be in the tarball to build the released tarball | 20:21 |
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| philiKON | you can also have it in your repository tree if you want your development version of your software built with zpkg | 20:22 |
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| jenner | hi there | 20:22 |
| regebro | Ah, ok, yeah. setup.py import zpkgsetup. That, I assume, in turn uses ZConfig. | 20:23 |
| philiKON | you guys get warnings compiling Zope 3.1.0 (especially ZODB packages) with gcc 4.0? | 20:23 |
| regebro | OK, thanks, srichter, I think I have a package now! | 20:23 |
| srichter | regebro: yipee! | 20:23 |
| regebro | It's pretty obscure, I'll try to remember to blog about this tomorrow. | 20:24 |
| philiKON | yes, zconfig needs to simplify a bit | 20:24 |
| philiKON | it also needs a quick start guide ;) | 20:24 |
| philiKON | seriously, once you wrap your head around it, it's quite ok | 20:24 |
| jenner | Guys, could someone suggest a photo product for z3? I'd like to play around with z3 a bit | 20:25 |
| regebro | philiKON: It has a quick start giude. Problem is that it only takes you through like the first 10%. :) | 20:26 |
| philiKON | jenner, http://svn.zope.org/photo/ | 20:27 |
| philiKON | regebro, exactly | 20:27 |
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| jenner | philiKON: err.. yes, I was browsing through the old CVS repo and thought it might be a bit outdated :) | 20:28 |
| philiKON | forget CVS | 20:29 |
| philiKON | CVS is dead man | 20:29 |
| jenner | Hm, `svn co http://svn.zope.org/photo/trunk/ photo` returns a "301 Moved" | 20:31 |
| jenner | `svn co svn://svn.zope.org/repos/main/photo/trunk/photo photo` worked... | 20:33 |
| philiKON | viewcvs != anonymous svn checkout | 20:34 |
| jenner | philiKON: it is in most projects | 20:35 |
| mgedmin | I do not believe it | 20:36 |
| philiKON | jenner, I'm talking about *ViewCVS* | 20:36 |
| philiKON | not the regular HTTP view of svn | 20:36 |
| mgedmin | you can browse svn repositories over http, but that's not viewcvs | 20:36 |
| jenner | oh, well, that's true, sorry | 20:36 |
| philiKON | there's no http view of the zope repo | 20:36 |
| philiKON | just viewcvs | 20:36 |
| mgedmin | compare http://source.schooltool.org/svn and http://source.schooltool.org/viewcvs | 20:36 |
| jenner | all right, I'm already convinced! :) | 20:37 |
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| srichter | mkerrin: okay, I just had a long discussion on #twisted about the branches stuff | 20:47 |
| srichter | mkerrin: foom will keep the web2 package inside branches/2.1.x/ uptodate, so that we can lionk to that | 20:47 |
| srichter | and I almost convinced them to have another look at zpkgtools again, so we can do nice releases | 20:48 |
| mgedmin | srichter, write a 10-minute flash presentation of zpkgtools | 20:49 |
| srichter | mgedmin: I am not qualified to even do that :-) | 20:49 |
| mgedmin | http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/270 | 20:49 |
| philiKON | awesome | 20:51 |
| mkerrin | srichter: I just say that discussion 2 minutes ago - | 20:51 |
| mkerrin | still reading through it | 20:52 |
| srichter | mgedmin: there is another tool benji told me about, which even let's you add comments | 20:54 |
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| mkerrin | srichter: thats good news - there is just one bug fix on web2 that needs to go into the twisted 2.1 branch but you guys seem to have discussed it. | 20:57 |
| mkerrin | now to get onto to that FTP thing again :-) | 20:58 |
| srichter | :-( | 21:01 |
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| srichter | mkerrin: the patch is in, so do you want to have the honor and switch the SVN link? | 21:17 |
| philiKON | HEADS UP: i'll be landing the deprecation of mutable MessageIDs in a minute | 21:19 |
| philiKON | hold on to your buts | 21:19 |
| philiKON | about five consecutive checkins coming about | 21:19 |
| mkerrin | don't mind - but I will give philiKON a few minutes | 21:23 |
| mkerrin | srichter: I am having a nightware here in zope.app.ftp with permissions | 21:25 |
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| mkerrin | is it alrhow do I say if a directory is writable, _lsinfo seems a bit messed up on this front. | 21:28 |
| mkerrin | i.e. I can create a file within a directory | 21:28 |
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| philiKON | ALL: my changes have landed; please svn up | 21:31 |
| mkerrin | cool thanks | 21:32 |
| philiKON | srichter, there's one deprecationwarning popping up in the ftest for apidoc's codemodule. no idea how to get rid of it since it doesn't appear when using the codemodule via regular HTTP on a running instance | 21:33 |
| srichter | mkerrin: shrug, I guess you are the first ever reviewing this code since the initial checkin :-( | 21:33 |
| philiKON | srichter, maybe you'll figure it out; i'll definitely spend some time on this tomorrow until i hunt it down | 21:34 |
| srichter | philiKON: ok | 21:34 |
| srichter | I have a lot of other tasks right now, so I am swampled | 21:34 |
| philiKON | ok | 21:34 |
| philiKON | np | 21:34 |
| mkerrin | is branches/releases/2.1.x/ the correct twisted branch - I am just running teh tests now | 21:35 |
| srichter | ok | 21:35 |
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| srichter | that's the correct branch | 21:36 |
| philiKON | g'night guys | 21:41 |
| srichter | see yeah | 21:43 |
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| jenner | is it save to use trunk? | 22:04 |
| srichter | yes | 22:06 |
| jenner | 2 failures in unit test | 22:19 |
| srichter | can you provide tracebacks? | 22:21 |
| jenner | sure, where to? | 22:21 |
| jenner | http://paste.plone.org/435 | 22:22 |
| srichter | jenner: please report those on the mailing list | 22:26 |
| srichter | those are failures in the new zope.testing framework, which Jim and ZC is developing | 22:27 |
| mgedmin | jenner, do you have the python profiler installed? | 22:27 |
| jenner | mgedmin: nope, should I? | 22:27 |
| jenner | srichter: ok | 22:27 |
| mgedmin | debian/ubuntu python2.x-profiler package | 22:27 |
| mgedmin | jenner, it might be the cause of these failures | 22:27 |
| mgedmin | I wouldn't be surprised if the test runner detected that it cannot import the profiler, and therefore cannot perform coverage analysis | 22:28 |
| mgedmin | and therefore disable it | 22:28 |
| jenner | ok, I'll try again with profiler installed | 22:28 |
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| jenner | mgedmin: same situation -- 2 failures with profiler installed | 22:35 |
| jenner | and one failure for functional tests | 22:35 |
| mgedmin | ho hum | 22:36 |
| mgedmin | there goes my wild guess | 22:36 |
| jenner | so it's ok to just post the tracebacks to zope3-dev@zope.org? | 22:39 |
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| srichter | yes | 22:40 |
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| srichter | mkerrin: I think I fixed the problem you had | 23:04 |
| srichter | mkerrin: as I thought not all tests cleanup properly after each other | 23:04 |
| srichter | mkerrin: but it was at several locations | 23:05 |
| jenner | hmm... I've checked out the photo package from svn trunk, added a photo-configure.zcml (<include package="photo" />) to $INSTANCE/etc/package-includes/, but I still see no photo in the /manage view | 23:05 |
| mkerrin | srichter: which problem was this? | 23:05 |
| srichter | jenner: strange; do you see a photo folder? | 23:05 |
| srichter | mkerrin: the commented tests you had when merging to the trunk | 23:05 |
| mkerrin | excellent - that sounds nasty "but it was at several locations" | 23:06 |
| srichter | yep | 23:06 |
| srichter | it took me a while | 23:07 |
| jenner | srichter: nope... I see a deprecation warning from photo/__init__.py in my z3.log, that's the only sign I get from the photo package | 23:07 |
| srichter | mmh, I get test failures elsewhere now, but I know I am right :-) | 23:08 |
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| mkerrin | I think it is going to be one of those weeks :-) | 23:08 |
| srichter | jenner: mmh, the package is old, so it might need some update | 23:08 |
| srichter | mkerrin: :-) I think I'll soon have it | 23:09 |
| jenner | srichter: photo interfaces are showing up in the list of "Schema based Content" schemas | 23:09 |
| * jenner checks the Zope3Dev articles to figure out how to "register" a new module | 23:10 | |
| srichter | mmh, strange; that definitely means the config is loaded | 23:10 |
| srichter | jenner: it might be more an issue of registration | 23:10 |
| jenner | uaahh... access logs on STDOUT are annoying :) | 23:12 |
| srichter | turn it off in your site.zcml | 23:19 |
| srichter | I mean zope.conf | 23:19 |
| jenner | uh, the whole code for the Photo class is inside the __init__.py | 23:26 |
| srichter | :-( | 23:29 |
| mkerrin | good night :-) | 23:33 |
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| jenner | srichter: how do I run the tests for a single product from zopectl? I saw that somewhere at zope.org, but can't recall the url... | 23:36 |
| runyaga | zopectl run foo.py | 23:39 |
| srichter | no clue :-) | 23:39 |
| srichter | I just use the trunk | 23:39 |
| jenner | so do I :) | 23:39 |
| jenner | runyaga: thnx | 23:39 |
| srichter | python test.py -vp1 --dir src/photo | 23:39 |
| jenner | I'm almost there, one functional test left :) | 23:49 |
| runyaga | benji_york, formlib is not part of z3.1? i gave someone your quickstart ;-) | 23:52 |
| * runyaga drools over z3 pypi packages | 23:52 | |
| benji_york | nope, it was too late to get in | 23:52 |
| benji_york | (that's why I use a checkout in the quick start, I hope that by the time the quick start gets to 1.0 3.2 will be released) | 23:53 |
| runyaga | yeah i know | 23:53 |
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