IRC log of #zope3-dev for Monday, 2005-12-19

« Sunday, 2005-12-18 Index Tuesday, 2005-12-20 »
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newpershttp://www.funkatron.com/wp/archives/the-web-problem/the-departure-of-the-hyper-enthusiasts/07:20
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einshi all15:10
benjihi eins15:11
benjieins, do you have a sister named zwei?15:11
einsi have a sister, but she hardly knows what irc is:) so probable if she knew, her nick would have been zwei :D15:12
einsprobably15:13
benji:)15:13
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andresOne question: I have a local tree of psycopgda lying around on my harddisk with a marker interface for it (discussed on zope3-dev and already in mysqldba). Should i mail the patch or try to get dev access?16:06
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benjiandres, if you're interested in continuing contributing, I'd get commit access16:12
andresbenji, hm, good question. I guess i will contribute some bits as i will work with zope for some time.16:30
benjithen I'd suggest you sign the contrib. agreement and send it to Jim16:30
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andresbenji, fax, snailmail, mail?16:39
benjiI think a paper copy is required, but a scan will suffice to turn on commit access16:40
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benjiandres, so print, sign, scan/fax, mail I think is the recommended sequence16:41
andresbenji, do you know the fax#?16:42
benjinope :(16:42
srichterandre: check zope.com16:42
andressrichter, ok, found it.16:44
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GaryPosterstub: ping16:48
stubGaryPoster: pong16:48
GaryPosterHey16:48
GaryPosterAre you cool with a patch to pytz that provides persistence-aware offset-based timezones, a la zope.app.datetimeutils?16:49
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GaryPoster(to address the pyz misuse in zope.i18n.format)16:49
GaryPosterpytz16:50
GaryPosterI see this as a separate class ATM, so it wouldn't touch any of the other pytz code.16:51
stubI don't see a problem with it. There are already 'ETC+XX' zones in there which might be useful16:51
GaryPosterBut they are precooked, right?16:51
stubYes16:51
GaryPosterOK, cool.  So, I'll try to get a patch in the Zope 3 repo's pytz copy today, and then you can see what you think.  Sound ok?16:52
stubSure.16:53
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* stub makes a note to catch up on his Z3 mailbox16:54
GaryPosterok, thanks.  (I'm planning on being as lazy as possible, just copying/moving over pertinent bits from the datetimeutils module.)16:54
GaryPoster:-)16:54
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andresGaryPoster, thanks.17:30
GaryPoster:-)17:30
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philiKONwow, garret smith, haven't seen him around in a long time...18:20
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J1mWhere where?18:34
philiKONhe just joined and left 15 minutes ago18:35
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zbir"... and they never saw him again. The End."18:40
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tiredbonesphiliKON, Can you give me the pointer to you article "zcml does to much"?18:42
philiKONtiredbones, http://www.z3lab.org/sections/blogs/philipp-weitershausen/2005_12_14_zcml-needs-to-do-less18:42
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philiKONJ1m, btw, i think there were more people using reponse.write than you guys initially thought19:51
philiKONJ1m, lots of people are used to it from zope 219:52
philiKONthere are questions like "i read on zope3-dev that response.write is gone, so we can't stream data anymore?"19:52
J1mI know lots of people used in Zope 2.  I don't have any evidence that anyone has used it for Zope 3.19:52
J1mZope 3's response.write did not stream data.19:53
philiKONi see19:53
J1mI'm trying to figure out if I have a backward-compatibility problem that needs to be solved now.19:53
J1mI don't care about backward compatibility with Zope 2.19:53
philiKONi understand that19:54
J1mI'm all for adding streaming to Zope 3, but it needs to be thought out and specified first.19:54
J1m(We also need to sort out the WSGI mess.)19:54
J1mBut I don't have time for that now.19:54
philiKONyes19:55
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dman13is today the fourth bug day in a row?  ;-)20:05
philiKONgah, i figured it out20:13
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jennerhi20:57
jennerguys, if I return zope.publisher.http.DirectResult(some_iterable, headers_tuple) in a browser view, how can I prevent the publisher from raising a ForbiddenAttribute exception for the "headers" attr (publisher/http.py, line 786)?20:59
J1mphiliKON, ayt?21:01
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runyagasrichter: ?21:02
srichterhere21:03
runyagahttp://www.artima.com/weblogs/viewpost.jsp?thread=141312 <- you read this?21:03
runyagai beg of you guys - please have inline python + rdbms from a single zpt21:03
runyagabruce eckel tried out zope for a few years (at least 2) and gave up21:04
runyagamoved to php21:04
runyagaPHP - why?  because its easy21:04
runyaga"but all I want to do is connect a database to the web" in Zope2 for several years now.."21:04
srichterone of my goals for Zope 3.3 will be to have a separate release or add-on package that will support web-dev21:05
runyaga"but all I want to do is connect a database to the web" in Zope2 for several years now..21:05
runyagaor is this uninteresting for core-zope?21:05
srichterZope 3.3 is not useful for private and small sites at this point21:05
srichteryes, I think it is uninteresting for a lot of people that use Zope 321:05
runyagai use zope 3 and zope 2 and i think its very interesting21:06
runyagai dont want to bring too much noise to #zope3-dev21:06
runyagajust wanted you to see it - I think that you were right on with your RDBMS + inline python into zpt21:06
srichterit will be part of the webdev package that I am planning21:07
runyagaok.. good luck21:08
runyagazope 3.2.x looks fantastic -- good work on twistd integration21:09
runyagayou guys rock21:10
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srichterrunyaga: exceot that it causes headaches right now21:11
philiKONJ1m, sorry, flaky inet connection21:11
philiKONJ1m, you were looking for me?21:11
runyagayou guys will work through it - evolution is not pain free21:11
J1mphiliKON, I'm trying to sort out 516.21:13
philiKONJ1m, is this going to take a while now?21:14
philiKONbecause only have a couple of minutes21:14
J1mYes.21:14
J1mah21:14
J1mk21:14
philiKONsorry, i gotta catch some sleep :)21:14
J1m:)21:15
philiKONperhaps tomorrow, 9 or 10 a.m. your time?21:15
J1mtoo late :)21:17
philiKONJ1m, b2 coming out?21:17
J1msomeday21:17
J1mI'm afraid we aren't going to make our deadline for this month. :(21:18
philiKONthen why is tomorrow too late? not that it would matter to me, i'm sure you can sort it out w/o me21:18
philiKONmy bottom line is: it all should be ascii21:18
J1mBecause I need to go as fast as I can.21:18
philiKONok21:18
J1mThat isn't mentioned in the issue.21:19
J1mFurthermore, we really need to think a lot harder about the requirements.21:19
J1mimo21:19
philiKONwell, it does say something like that at the end of the issue21:19
J1mFor now, I'm gona just make the UIs I can fine more restrictive and call it a band-aide.21:19
philiKONok21:20
J1mI think it's too big an issue for a bug fix.21:20
philiKONbasically, principal.ids need to be str()able, that's what several places inside zope expect21:20
philiKONagreed21:20
philiKONin the long-term ( and i can follow up on this in the issue), i think we want to review what IDs are21:20
philiKONi think 8 byte strings are stupid there21:20
J1mI think that there are other unstated requirements in those other systems.21:20
philiKONeither unicode or ascii21:20
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J1mThese need to be teased out.21:21
philiKONyes, that too21:21
J1mThis is the least controversial of the 2 remaining critical issues, so I want to knock it out first.21:21
philiKONunderstood21:22
philiKONgood luck21:22
J1mThanks21:22
J1mGood night.21:22
philiKONand good night :)21:22
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jennerIdeas anyone (wrt ForbiddenAttribute exception)?21:29
J1mLook for a missing security declaration.21:29
J1mrunyaga, I think scale was a major factor for Bruce.21:32
runyagayeah21:32
J1mZope isn't currently aimed at small problems.21:32
runyagajust talking to srichter in msgs about it21:32
runyagaJ1m: i agree.. i think martijn hit it with "we dont scale down"21:32
J1mMy Bobo project was meant to be a response to the scale issue.21:32
runyagawe should have some feedback to you by pycon about "scale down"21:32
J1mBut I haven't had time to work on it. :(21:32
runyagaJ1m: not enough time21:32
runyagaJ1m: sorry to hear that21:32
jennerJ1m: zope.publisher.http.setResult() does also create a DirectResult by itself if it doesn't encounter an object adaptable to IResult and there's no exception raised :( Also, I don't see where the appropriate security declaration would be defined (for DirectResult.headers that is)21:33
J1mjenner, I don't have context for what you just said.21:34
SteveArunyaga: i too want to talk with people about this at pycon21:35
J1mOh yeah, pycon.  I need to announce the sprint ....21:35
jennerJ1m: in a browser view method I return DirectResult(some_iterable, some_headers) and at this point an exception from zope.publisher.http.HTTPResponse.setResult() (line 786) is raised - ForbiddenAttribute: ('headers', <zope.publisher.http.DirectResult object at 0xb491fb2c>)21:37
J1mah21:38
J1mWe need security declarations for DirectResult.21:38
J1mCould you submit a critical collector issue please?21:38
jennerOk, will do21:38
J1m(Unless you are a contributor, in which case, you could just fix it. :)21:38
jennerNo I'm not... I'm just trying to make my first steps in z3 app development :)21:39
* srichter has to go back to research; MatLab scripting sucks21:39
jennerJ1m: so does that mean I can't use DirectResult yet? Or is there a way to override (missing) security declarations in my own configure.zcml?21:40
J1mYou can add declarations in your own overrides.zcml.21:40
J1mThen, when I add them (if someone reminds me via a collector issue), you won't have a conflict.21:41
jennerJ1m: Ok, thanks.21:41
GaryPosterjenner: that was J1m being subtle.  He wants you to but in a collector issue. :-)21:41
GaryPosters/but/put/21:41
jennerGaryPoster: already doing so :)21:44
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GaryPoster:-) cool21:45
jennerunbelievable, my zope.org account is still valid21:47
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jennerhttp://www.zope.org/Collectors/Zope3-dev/52421:49
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J1mhttp://www.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/PyCon2006Sprint21:55
J1mfeel free to add yourself to the list of participants or update the project list of you're going to be there.21:55
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* jenner tries to guess if "http://www.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/Zope3Book/secureobjects.html" is the right address for getting started with z3 security machinery21:58
srichterjenner:yep21:59
GaryPosterjenner: other options include (in no particular order, but all very different approaches from one another) looking the *.txt files in zope.security, buying Philipp's book, or buying Stephan's book (the edited version of what you are reading it now, or perhaps Stephan would put a finer point on it).  The .txt files are particularly good for that module, I think, but are geared toward people wanting to know the real nitty gritty.  I imagine one of the bo22:04
jennerGaryPoster: I'm poor student, I can't afford to buy dead-tree versions of computer literature :))22:05
GaryPosterok22:06
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GaryPostersrichter: afaict there is no such thing as a locale duration formatter in zope.i18n.  You happen to know if the database has the necessary information?22:48
srichterno, I don't think there is information in the locale files for this22:49
srichtermaybe in newer versions?22:49
GaryPosterhm, maybe.  how old is ours?22:49
srichtermaybe a year22:49
GaryPosterok22:49
GaryPostermaybe I'll dig into it later.  For now, naive will do. :-)22:50
srichternote though, that they might have changed the XML format again; I am not sure22:50
GaryPosterI thought I remebered that :-/  I hope not22:50
J1msrichter, we should consider using the C library22:50
srichterfine with me22:51
J1mIf you point me at some apis, I'd be happy to pyrex them. :)22:51
J1mNow that I've done 1, I'm guessing that others would be straightforward.22:51
srichterI'll note that I have very little motivation these days for doing any work on the I18n framework; for all that I care it works22:52
srichterI bet that it is not just a matter of Pyrex'ing it22:52
srichterbecause the structure for the locale object it generates is probably very different22:53
srichteror maybe it does not even generate a locale object, but just uses the data22:53
J1mPyrex pretty much makes that simple.22:54
J1mYou get an opaque object and expose what you want.22:54
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J1msrichter, if you've lost motivation for i18n, who's going to maintain our custom implementation of ICU? :)23:06
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