IRC log of #zope3-dev for Thursday, 2006-03-09

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tiredbonesI hope people don't subscribe to they took ny money an ran. Lesson learn.00:15
srichtertiredbones: what?00:16
tiredbonessrichter, several months ago I subscibe to the mag, know that the site was under construction, but still nother and no reply to all my emails.00:18
tiredbonessrichter, at least I got some info before I was shot.00:20
smtiredbones: I heard that before, but several years ago00:22
smthought it was long gone00:22
tiredbonessm, a sucker born everday I suppose. I now wear thr scarlet letter.00:24
smit's inefficiency, not a deliberate scam I think00:26
tiredbonesI hope your right, I would hate to think that this attitude has come to the linux community.00:30
tiredbonesI must say tho, that this is the first time it has happen to me.00:31
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srichtertiredbones: the guy running zopemag is around for a long time00:44
tiredbonessrichter, do you know what happen to the nag?00:52
slinkPtiredbones: shot?00:55
tiredbonessrichter, that might me so, but the trust I gave these folks has been short lived.00:55
tiredbonesslinkP, I hope there not dead, I would like to see this make a go of it. It sure is need fo noobs like me.00:57
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tiredbonesSpeaking of noobs, is there an irc channel to ask basic question about Zope3?00:59
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smtiredbones: this is it01:02
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tiredbonesbasic Q., For every instance made, "mkzopeinstance" do you have to update principals.zcml?01:15
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smif the file is in the instance dir, then yes.. I think it is01:22
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tiredbonesSlug implies that you have an instance, "mkzopeinstance", but I know I started Zope without an instance. Now I have a package and added a slug, I still don't see my package in the ZMI.01:34
tiredbonesWhat should I reread?01:34
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tiredbonesIf I have a package at "/usr/local/Zope-3.2/zope3/src/package-name/ and I have an instance here /usr/local/Zope-3.2/zope3/myinstance, when I start Zope shouldn't I see something in ZMI pertaining to my package?01:43
tiredbonesAll my test on the package pass.01:45
tiredbonessys.path shows that my paths are there.01:46
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tiredboneshow do I know if zope is reading my include-packages path?03:42
stubBreak one of the .zcml files so it is invalid xml and see if Zope blows up.03:54
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WebMavennatea: I hate to bug you on this, but are there going to be more videos from the Snow Sprint?07:38
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romanofskimoin :)09:51
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__mac__hi, anyone here using database generations?13:08
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mgedmin__mac__: yes13:11
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__mac__In ZMI on Database-Schemas tab in details view I see only the generations between minimum_generation and generation or even nothing if they are equal ... this does not make sense to me13:14
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harobedhi all, how can I add some page in web site ? I would like translate Zope 3 Book to french. How can I do it ?15:51
benjiharobed, if you create an account you can add it to your space, then when your translation is finished it might be moved into a more prominant place16:06
harobedok, thanks16:06
tiredbonesWhen zope starts-up what file does it read to determine that it has an instances?16:07
benjinone, you start an instance itself16:08
tiredbonesso, when I do ./bin/runzope I'm telling zope to start my instance, "mkzopeinstance"?16:09
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benjiyes to everything before the comma, what? to everything after :)16:11
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tiredbonesI'm confuse on the term "instance" here, I started zope like this "./bin/runzope", but I did not make an instance using "mkzopeinstance" and zope started. So then I stop zope and made an instance using "mkzopeinstance" and move my packeage to /usr/local/Zope-3.2/zope/myinstance/lib/python. Started Zope back up, sign on as a manager, click on top, expecting to see something of my package. nothing! Check PYTHONPATH that seems to be ok.Recheck16:18
tiredbonesmy slug. What do I check next?16:18
benjiwhen you started zope the second time you should have used the bin/runzope from inside the instance16:19
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tiredboneshmm, let check.16:20
elrohow do I switch on the pdb on exception behaviour when running zopectl in the foreground? i seemed really cool useful when jim demoed it at the plone conf16:20
benjiwhen using runzope it's -D, off the top of my head I don't know what it is for zopectl16:21
elrorunzope is fine for me16:21
tiredboneswhere should I be sitting in the tree when I run this command?16:22
benjiit shouldn't matter tiredbones, just make sure you're running the runzope or zopectl from /inside/ your new instance16:22
tiredbonesI got an error! GREAT! thanks benji16:24
benjinp, glad to help you generate errors :)16:24
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tiredboneserrors are good, they help you to take the first step. As the old saying goes, "the journey of a thousand mile..."16:29
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tiredbonesbeni, your last comment implies that there a difference running zope from outside the instance one creates with mkzopeinstznce. Can you point me to some reading material that would explain this concept/16:36
tiredbonesbenji, your last comment implies that there a difference running zope from outside the instance one creates with mkzopeinstznce. Can you point me to some reading material that would explain this concept/16:36
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benjisorry, afk tiredbones, I don't have anything at hand, the gist is that you can make an instance that's runnable or you can just run a zope without an instance, but that's more of convienence16:53
harobedwhere can I found Zope 3 Book in svn ? I don't see it :(16:54
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benjiharobed, "yes", as in you found it?17:03
benji(hopefully, because I don't know where it is :) )17:03
harobedit's channel error17:03
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elrohmm. Error: option -D not recognized. could it be because I am using twisted rather than zserver?17:19
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benjielro, oops, I was thinking of the test runner17:31
tiredbonesbenji, thanks for your help, everthing works now. I did not know there was a diffrenece in being inside the instance created with mkzopeinstance and the instance of zope3.17:32
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benjielro, here's the actual command line: bin/runzope -X server/type=PostmortemDebuggingHTTP17:33
benjiwhen an exception is raised it'll drop you into a pdb17:33
elrocheers benji17:33
smooh nice.. is that z3 only ?17:34
elromy code keeps throwing exceptions while I try and work it all out :-)17:34
mgedmintiredbones: in my understanding "instance" is what mkzopeinstance creates; you can use zope 3 from a subversion without checkout without creating an instance17:34
mgedminI wouldn't call the subversion checkout "an instance of zope3"17:35
* sm calls that build home17:35
smas opposed to SOFTWARE_HOME & INSTANCE_HOME.. though I should probably not bring my z2 jargon in here..17:36
elrowhen you build zope you have the option of doing a 'make instance' instead of a 'make install' that puts the software and files all in one place17:36
tiredbonesmgedmin, well that was my problem, I wasn't sure how the term was being used. In allt he the read I'm doing I took instance to mean Zope3.17:36
smisn't that quite confusing ? make instance is too similar to mkzopeinstance17:36
smhow about make install-in-place17:37
mgedminzope 3 has 'make instance'?  I didn't know that17:38
tiredbonesNow that I think about it, I'm still not sure how to take the term instance.17:39
sman instance is what mkzopeinstance makes17:41
sm(or, muddying the waters, what mkzeoinstance makes in z2)17:41
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tiredbonesIn Stephan's book an instance is what is created with mkzopeinstance. However, he also said that Zope will not run until you make an instance.I have started zope without an instance.17:48
guruzthe universe will collapse17:51
rockyburttiredbones: it should probably read, "you shouldn't run zope without an instance"17:52
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* mgedmin wants a widget for containers; something like a ListSequenceWidget for List(value_type=Object(schema=IFoo))17:53
tiredbonesrockyburt, A noob Q.. Why not? Is it because there is no value in running zope by itself?17:54
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rockyburttiredbones: organizational thing for starters -- having instances is a way so that you could install different versions of python code in different environments without having to install zope itself in multiple places (this is just one example)17:55
tiredbonesrockyburt, Another noob Q..Ok, how do I tell zope what instance to use?17:58
mgedmintiredbones: you don't; you use the instance (which knows what zope to use)17:59
rockyburttiredbones: i'm currently developing applications for several different clients, i use a different instance for each client to keep their code separate from each other17:59
rockyburtoh sorry17:59
* rockyburt misunderstood tiredbones's question17:59
tiredbonesmgedmin, So the instance I use depends where I start zope form?18:01
mgedminyes; each instance has its own runzope script (and its own zopectl script)18:01
mgedminyou can start up multiple instances in paralel (if they listen on different TCP ports and do not conflict)18:02
tiredbonesTHANK YOU VERY MUCH!18:02
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* elro wanders if zope should not provide a favicon view as a default18:17
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WebMavennatea_: I hate to bug you on this, but are there going to be more videos from the Snow Sprint?19:03
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jpfariashow do I know if zope is loading my modules?19:04
mgedminjpfarias: you could insert a debugging print >> sys.stderr19:05
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jpfariasand how do I know if it is loading my .zcml's?19:06
jpfariasI've put a mypackage-configure.zcml on etc/package-includes19:07
jpfariaswith <inlude package="mypackage"/>19:07
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jpfariasand created mypackage under its lib/python dir19:08
jpfariasput a there19:08
jpfariasand a configure.zcml there also19:08
jpfariasbut seems it is not loading them19:08
mgedminintroduce a syntax error, then see if zope 3 complains on startup19:08
jpfariasit does not complains19:09
jpfariaswhat can it be?19:09
regebroWell, you didn't turn off developer mode, right?19:10
jpfariasI didn't touched zope config19:10
jpfariasit is the same as mkzopeinstance created19:10
regebroDid you misspell mypackafe-configure.zcml?19:10
regebroI did that, and then it doens't find it, it has to end in -configure.zcml... calling it -cofnigure.zcml did not work. :)19:11
jpfariasit has this name: sigaa-configure.zcml19:11
regebroThen I don't know.19:11
jpfariascause mypackage is sigaa19:12
mgedmindoesn't ++apidoc++ list all zcml files that were loaded?19:12
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regebroTry doing the <include package="sigaa" /> in site.zcml and see if that helps (it shouldn't).19:13
jpfariasit didn't find it also :(19:14
jpfariasshouldn't it complain if it can't find a package?19:14
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tiredbonesjpfarias, I'm a noob. So take this with a grain a salt. Muske sure you are inside your instance when starting zope.19:17
jpfariasis there a way to make zope list all zcml's it as loaded?19:17
jpfariasor start it in a more verbose mode19:18
mgedminonly by editing the zope source code, I think19:19
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jpfariasI did copied my package into another z3 instance19:23
jpfariasand it works19:23
tiredbonesjpfarias, That was the instance you started with bin/runzope.19:25
jpfariasI was in my instance dir19:25
jpfariasI've just copied the other instance into my one19:26
jpfariasand it works now19:26
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mgedminI'd like to provide some extra debugging information in a page template, but only when devmode is enabled in zope.conf19:28
tiredbonesNothing like a noob running his mouth off. I'll go back to lurking now.19:28
mgedminis there a convenient way for checking that with TALES?19:28
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mgedminit seems that'devmode') is the only way19:30
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srichtermgedmin: the right way, I would claim would be to write a content provider or viewlet that only outputs data if this condition is true20:11
srichtermgedmin: templates should really be agnostic of any of those type of checks20:12
srichtersee the design I did for getting the devmode working in schooltool20:12
srichterbefore viewlets I had to implement an almost duplicate template, now I can just hook into viewlet managers20:13
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mgedminwhat you said has the ring of truth to it...20:16
mgedminmy use case: SchoolTool has a nice custom error view that by default says only "oops, an error occurred"20:17
mgedminhowever if you add ++debug++errors in the URL, you will see a full traceback in that view20:17
mgedminI thought that it would make more sense/be more convenient if the traceback was always displayed when devmode is enabled20:17
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* mgedmin watched the presentation by Sean Kelley21:02
* mgedmin now craves for rapid turnaround21:02
* mgedmin hates having to restart Zope 3 after every single change to view code21:02
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smmgedmin: +121:07
smgreat presentation, isn't it21:07
smhave you looked at ? it sounds very good at that21:08
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mgedminyes, the presentation was wonderful21:13
mgedminand no, I looked at pythomnic21:13
mgedminwhat is it?21:14
mgedminit sounds terribly complicated21:14
smmgedmin: not really.. the docs are actually well worth reading21:15
smit's a.. an object publishing framework that provides excellent fault-tolerant/failover/no-restart features21:16
smto benefit from these features, code must follow a few disciplines, like using pythonmic's as a proxy when calling across boundaries21:18
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mgedminis ObjectWidget broken in Zope 3.2?21:27
mgedmin  File "/home/mg/src/ivija/Zope3.2/src/zope/app/form/browser/", line 116, in error21:27
mgedmin    IWidgetInputErrorView).snippet())21:27
mgedminNameError: global name 'IWidgetInputErrorView' is not defined21:27
mgedmintrunk has the same bug, it appears21:37
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* mgedmin adds
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* mgedmin has a headache from trying to write a widget for OrderedContainer23:02
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* benji wishes Gary's major widget rework was finished and put in the core23:02
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newpersis this suppose to give me a url error:
newpersthe reason i'm asking is because i'm getting an uknown directive error with "page"23:48
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romanofskinewpers: I doubt that the namespace url is something to do with your page error23:51
newpersme too, that's why i asked in xml first.  but that shouldn't return an invalid url, should it?23:52
sawdogthe actual url doesn't need to exist23:52
newpersi need to learn more about xml23:54
newpersanyways, the error went away when I fixed my typo23:55
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