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| eins | hi | 08:06 |
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| rockyburt | anyone know if there is some coding style preference document someplace for creating a from-scratch project that uses zope3 ? | 15:38 |
| rockyburt | (ie CamelCase or not for method names, etc) | 15:38 |
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| srichter | rockyburt: yes, there is | 15:40 |
| rockyburt | srichter: this document? http://www.zope.org/Wikis/DevSite/Projects/ComponentArchitecture/ZopePythonNamingConventions | 15:41 |
| rockyburt | it conflicts with pep 8 :( | 15:41 |
| srichter | yes, it does | 15:41 |
| srichter | but not much | 15:41 |
| rockyburt | why not stick with pep 8 ? | 15:41 |
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| * rockyburt would prefer to stick with pep 8 | 15:41 | |
| srichter | PEP 8 was revised after we started Zope 3 coding guidelines | 15:41 |
| rockyburt | ahh | 15:41 |
| srichter | but then we have inconsistencies within Zope 3 | 15:41 |
| srichter | the point of a coding style guide is to keep things consistent | 15:42 |
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| rockyburt | i think zope 3 coding guidelines should be revised to work better with pep 8 ;) | 15:42 |
| rockyburt | srichter: whats the url for the zope 3 coding guidelines ? | 15:42 |
| srichter | if we switch now, then we loose the point of having those conventions | 15:42 |
| srichter | you got the right one | 15:42 |
| srichter | the WikiPage above CodingStyle talks about other conventions | 15:43 |
| srichter | I think they have to be updated a bit, but they are still largely true | 15:43 |
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| rockyburt | well, considering i've never properly followed any conventions properly (i still use mostly java style conventions, ick) i'm leaning towards pep 8 and using the zope3 guidelines where they don't conflict | 15:43 |
| srichter | I would suggest getting used to the Zope 3 ones :-) | 15:44 |
| srichter | the largest difference is in naming functions and methods | 15:44 |
| rockyburt | nah, i want to be a python coder first, zope3 coder second ;) | 15:44 |
| srichter | sure, but you make it harder to play and get ZSCP certification :-) | 15:45 |
| rockyburt | projects need to follow zope3 style guidelines for zscp certification? ick =P | 15:45 |
| rockyburt | srichter: i think if thats truly in the cert reqs, it should state pep 8 or the above url are adequate, or risk excluding too many python coders moving to zope3 | 15:45 |
| srichter | well, the last line clearly states that for third party products we do not care, but ZPL code that wants to play nicely must follow those | 15:46 |
| srichter | otherwise we might have none in the first place | 15:47 |
| srichter | the goal is, and Java accomplished this very well, that you can almost guess methods and attribute names | 15:47 |
| rockyburt | you're right that java accomplished this very well -- but, having zope3 conflict with pep 8 guarantees it | 15:47 |
| srichter | if I have to start thinking is this a PEP 8 or Zope Style Guide package, then we have lost | 15:47 |
| rockyburt | er.. | 15:48 |
| rockyburt | guarantees it'll never happen for zope3 python code | 15:48 |
| srichter | well, it was not our fault that Python did not used to have their act together | 15:48 |
| rockyburt | no matter | 15:48 |
| rockyburt | fault is irrelevant | 15:48 |
| srichter | and the result is that they use two style guides in stdlib now | 15:48 |
| rockyburt | heh, they use 5 hundred style guides in stdblib now | 15:49 |
| rockyburt | *stdlib | 15:49 |
| srichter | they decided to go with the C conventions, since more packages had this style | 15:49 |
| srichter | we decided otherwise, because the Zope 2 code we started out with was more using the CamelCase convention | 15:49 |
| srichter | all Zope 3 packages written by third parties have been using our style guide, which means that we have communicated this well | 15:50 |
| rockyburt | zope 3 currently uses a mix, i can find examples if you'd like | 15:50 |
| srichter | yes, this is from people not following the convention | 15:51 |
| srichter | and it is partially my fault for not reading the checkin messages carefully enough | 15:51 |
| srichter | but I think it is nto more than 5%, if even that much | 15:51 |
| rockyburt | regardless, pep 8 is what python coders will follow, zope3 coding styles are what zope3 developers will follow ... personally i still find it more important to be a python coder first, zope3 coders second | 15:52 |
| rockyburt | -s | 15:52 |
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| rockyburt | of course if i'm contributing code directly to zope3, i will use zope3 style first | 15:53 |
| rockyburt | as pep 8 states, its better to use existing project style before pep 8 style | 15:53 |
| rockyburt | but for my own projects, pep 8 wins | 15:53 |
| srichter | whatever you want to do :-) | 15:54 |
| srichter | I cannot force you ;-) | 15:54 |
| * rockyburt watches srichter put his whip back in the drawer ... ;) | 15:54 | |
| srichter | he he | 15:55 |
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| tiredbones | the interface browser tab, according to my lastest reading, should be under site management section of the ZMI. Has this been removed? I don't have it. | 16:41 |
| srichter | yes, I think so | 16:43 |
| philiKON | tiredbones, yes, it's been removed. use apidoc for code browsing | 16:54 |
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| tiredbones | If you click on 'Manage Process' -> 'Server Control' and then Restart Server, the system goes down but doesn't restart. I have to go to the term where I started zope to restart. Is this haow it should work/ | 17:11 |
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| andres | Any idea what im doing wrong when i get non reproducible TypeError(can not change _p_jar of...) exceptions. | 17:49 |
| srichter | not me :-) | 17:51 |
| srichter | you might want to ask the ZODB mailing lsit | 17:51 |
| andres | The strange thing is, that i can start multiple times from a copy of the zope instance and i sometimes get the error and sometimes not. With exactly the same request (except the time). | 17:54 |
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| romanofski | hm... is there any reason why formlib puts a "zc_trackChanges[...]" javascript method in each form, while zc_trackChanges seems to be nowhere defined? | 18:00 |
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| srichter | romanofski: probably a relic; write a mesage to zope3-dev | 18:03 |
| romanofski | alright - yeah seems to be a relic | 18:03 |
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