IRC log of #zope3-dev for Tuesday, 2006-03-21

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rockyburtanyone know if there is some coding style preference document someplace for creating a from-scratch project that uses zope3 ?15:38
rockyburt(ie CamelCase or not for method names, etc)15:38
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srichterrockyburt: yes, there is15:40
rockyburtsrichter: this document?
rockyburtit conflicts with pep 8 :(15:41
srichteryes, it does15:41
srichterbut not much15:41
rockyburtwhy not stick with pep 8 ?15:41
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* rockyburt would prefer to stick with pep 815:41
srichterPEP 8 was revised after we started Zope 3 coding guidelines15:41
srichterbut then we have inconsistencies within Zope 315:41
srichterthe point of a coding style guide is to keep things consistent15:42
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rockyburti think zope 3 coding guidelines should be revised to work better with pep 8 ;)15:42
rockyburtsrichter: whats the url for the zope 3 coding guidelines ?15:42
srichterif we switch now, then we loose the point of having those conventions15:42
srichteryou got the right one15:42
srichterthe WikiPage above CodingStyle talks about other conventions15:43
srichterI think they have to be updated a bit, but they are still largely true15:43
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rockyburtwell, considering i've never properly followed any conventions properly (i still use mostly java style conventions, ick) i'm leaning towards pep 8 and using the zope3 guidelines where they don't conflict15:43
srichterI would suggest getting used to the Zope 3 ones :-)15:44
srichterthe largest difference is in naming functions and methods15:44
rockyburtnah, i want to be a python coder first, zope3 coder second ;)15:44
srichtersure, but you make it harder to play and get ZSCP certification :-)15:45
rockyburtprojects need to follow zope3 style guidelines for zscp certification? ick =P15:45
rockyburtsrichter: i think if thats truly in the cert reqs, it should state pep 8 or the above url are adequate, or risk excluding too many python coders moving to zope315:45
srichterwell, the last line clearly states that for third party products we do not care, but ZPL code that wants to play nicely must follow those15:46
srichterotherwise we might have none in the first place15:47
srichterthe goal is, and Java accomplished this very well, that you can almost guess methods and attribute names15:47
rockyburtyou're right that java accomplished this very well -- but, having zope3 conflict with pep 8 guarantees it15:47
srichterif I have to start thinking is this a PEP 8 or Zope Style Guide package, then we have lost15:47
rockyburtguarantees it'll never happen for zope3 python code15:48
srichterwell, it was not our fault that Python did not used to have their act together15:48
rockyburtno matter15:48
rockyburtfault is irrelevant15:48
srichterand the result is that they use two style guides in stdlib now15:48
rockyburtheh, they use 5 hundred style guides in stdblib now15:49
srichterthey decided to go with the C conventions, since more packages had this style15:49
srichterwe decided otherwise, because the Zope 2 code we started out with was more using the CamelCase convention15:49
srichterall Zope 3 packages written by third parties have been using our style guide, which means that we have communicated this well15:50
rockyburtzope 3 currently uses a mix, i can find examples if you'd like15:50
srichteryes, this is from people not following the convention15:51
srichterand it is partially my fault for not reading the checkin messages carefully enough15:51
srichterbut I think it is nto more than 5%, if even that much15:51
rockyburtregardless, pep 8 is what python coders will follow, zope3 coding styles are what zope3 developers will follow ... personally i still find it more important to be a python coder first, zope3 coders second15:52
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rockyburtof course if i'm contributing code directly to zope3, i will use zope3 style first15:53
rockyburtas pep 8 states, its better to use existing project style before pep 8 style15:53
rockyburtbut for my own projects, pep 8 wins15:53
srichterwhatever you want to do :-)15:54
srichterI cannot force you ;-)15:54
* rockyburt watches srichter put his whip back in the drawer ... ;)15:54
srichterhe he15:55
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tiredbonesthe interface browser tab, according to my lastest reading, should be under site management section of the ZMI. Has this been removed? I don't have it.16:41
srichteryes, I think so16:43
philiKONtiredbones, yes, it's been removed. use apidoc for code browsing16:54
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tiredbonesIf you click on 'Manage Process' -> 'Server Control' and then Restart Server, the system goes down but doesn't restart. I have to go to the term where I started zope to restart. Is this haow it should work/17:11
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andresAny idea what im doing wrong when i get non reproducible TypeError(can not change _p_jar of...) exceptions.17:49
srichternot me :-)17:51
srichteryou might want to ask the ZODB mailing lsit17:51
andresThe strange thing is, that i can start multiple times from a copy of the zope instance and i sometimes get the error and sometimes not. With exactly the same request (except the time).17:54
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romanofskihm... is there any reason why formlib puts a "zc_trackChanges[...]" javascript method in each form, while zc_trackChanges seems to be nowhere defined?18:00
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srichterromanofski: probably a relic; write a mesage to zope3-dev18:03
romanofskialright - yeah seems to be a relic18:03
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