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| eins | hi | 08:07 |
|---|---|---|
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| romanofski | moin :) | 10:23 |
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| jachin | hi tehre | 11:32 |
| jachin | I'm working though the example program in the zope3 book... and I'm running into trouble trying to make unittests | 11:33 |
| jachin | I'm pretty sure the problem is that I'm using a "release" instead of the SVN checkout | 11:34 |
| jachin | but I think it would be a valuble exercise to try to figure out how to write tests with my current setup | 11:35 |
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| jachin | I guess.... what I would really like is a good example of a simple "content object" | 11:36 |
| jachin | that does some different tests | 11:36 |
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| jachin | ah... ok... I just figured some something out. Now I just moved what I was working on to the /lib/python directory and now it appears to be working... at least it is starting to | 11:42 |
| jachin | now is that where I should be putting everything that I'm working on? | 11:43 |
| jachin | in the book it talks about how I should put thing in /src | 11:43 |
| jachin | is that something that only pertains to the SVN version of zope or is that something that is just outdated? | 11:44 |
| jachin | also are there any good forums for zope3? | 11:44 |
| jachin | or is the mailing list the best place to get help/advise? | 11:44 |
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| stainsby | i've only just started using the SVN version .. and yes, there is a src directory there where all the code goes .. use lib/python for non-SVN | 12:13 |
| stainsby | in fact i just wrote some code i want to contribute | 12:14 |
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| stainsby | the missing widgets that go with SourceSelectWidget, SourceDropdownWidget | 12:15 |
| stainsby | in particular, the one I wanted which does the source equivalent of OrderedMultiSelectWidget | 12:16 |
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| regebro | Quick Q: I Zope3, you don't have to have docstrings anymore, right? | 15:00 |
| regebro | Does it allow you to traverse to things beginning with _? | 15:00 |
| Theuni | i think so | 15:02 |
| Theuni | there's no reason anymore to treat _ specially IIRC | 15:02 |
| regebro | Yeah, _ works, I just checked. | 15:02 |
| regebro | And I think they don't need docstrings, but that's harder to test. | 15:07 |
| regebro | (Michael and me is working on making Zope2 traversal using IPublishTraversal adapters). | 15:07 |
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| [masterman] | hols | 15:28 |
| [masterman] | a | 15:28 |
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| Theuni | I can't believe it. | 15:35 |
| Theuni | We just finished the security target document for the Zope 3 certification. | 15:35 |
| J1m | Yay! | 15:36 |
| Theuni | And we do not have any cold sparkling wine available. | 15:36 |
| Theuni | :/ | 15:36 |
| Theuni | Just beer. | 15:36 |
| Theuni | I'm preparing a mail sending out the PDF for everyone. | 15:36 |
| efge | wow that's great | 15:44 |
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| efge | we must have some champagne in the fridge here :) | 15:44 |
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| efge | Theuni: now we have to wait for the actual certification, how long is it expected to take? | 15:45 |
| Theuni | not exactly. there are still multiple steps there. we have to implement some of the fiction from the document and have to also check for maybe one or two round trips when the TUV has questions. additionally some smaller documents have to be prepared as well (administrator and developer guidance for example) | 15:48 |
| J1m | regebro, congratulations on the z3 publisher in z2 work? | 15:48 |
| Theuni | however, this was the huge and bad step we've been eagerly waiting for | 15:48 |
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| regebro | Thanks. mkerrin did most. :) | 15:50 |
| J1m | is it going to land on the trunk before May 1? | 15:50 |
| J1m | regebro, mkerrin will the z3 publisher work be merged to the trunk and ready for beta by May 1? | 15:55 |
| Theuni | J1m: i'm not sure but i'm afraid we won't be ready with the code for the certification on may 1... :/ | 15:56 |
| J1m | Theuni, I fear you are right. | 15:56 |
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| J1m | I suppose the certified version could have a slightly different release schedule, if necessary. | 15:57 |
| regebro | (And of course sidnei did most of the twisted stuff.) | 15:57 |
| mkerrin | maybe :-) - it will definitely need some external eyes to look over it, to make sure that nothing has being left out | 15:57 |
| J1m | For HTTP, there shouldn't have been much twisted work. | 15:57 |
| Theuni | J1m: :). It looks like zagy will start coding on a branch next week. The tasks aren't too big, but they won't be finished on may 1... | 15:57 |
| regebro | The zope.publisher and twisted integration is optional and configurable in any case. | 15:58 |
| J1m | Theuni, this is going to be a separate release anyway. | 15:58 |
| J1m | I'm anxious to be able to use testbrowser in Z2. | 15:58 |
| Theuni | Effectively we need to: a) provide a way to switch to "certified mode" (via configuration file or something) b) audit log c) the sharing policy d) authentication failure handling e) credential time limit f) smaller stuff | 15:59 |
| J1m | I want something close to zope.app.testing.functional for Z2. | 15:59 |
| Theuni | J1m: i'm totally fine with that. | 15:59 |
| J1m | I'm guessing that the z3 publisher in z2 would make a z2 version of zope.app.testing.functional easier | 15:59 |
| regebro | Were currently trying to make traversal via adapters, so that Zope3 objects get their PublishTraverse and Zope2 gets their PublishTraverse. | 16:01 |
| regebro | That will probably not be configurable, so I'm more worried about that. | 16:01 |
| J1m | cool | 16:01 |
| J1m | Minor note, which you may not have time to care about: | 16:02 |
| regebro | Major problem is that getRoles are done differently if the subobject was gotten with __getitem__ than with __getattr__ or __bobo_traverse__ | 16:02 |
| J1m | Zope 3 should use PublishTraverse for URL namespace traversal, but it doesn't. | 16:02 |
| J1m | This is really a bug. | 16:02 |
| * J1m should file a collector issue. | 16:02 | |
| regebro | It doesn't? It looks like it does. | 16:03 |
| J1m | Maybe someone fixed it. It didn't last time I looked. | 16:03 |
| regebro | Or you mean it you do explicit traverse('/hkhkh/hkh') | 16:03 |
| * J1m looks | 16:03 | |
| J1m | No, I'm talking about things like ++view++ | 16:04 |
| regebro | Ah, OK. | 16:04 |
| regebro | Now I understand, right it uses ITraversable for namespaces. I though that was weird too. | 16:04 |
| J1m | Yup | 16:05 |
| regebro | I'm gonn write a mail on some issues I have with Zope3 traversal, and propose a refactoring. | 16:05 |
| J1m | k | 16:05 |
| regebro | But that can wait for 3.4, I think? | 16:06 |
| J1m | It's waited this long. | 16:06 |
| J1m | We only have so much time. | 16:06 |
| J1m | and 3.4 will be in November | 16:06 |
| regebro | Exactly. And don't chock the monkey too much at one time. ;) | 16:06 |
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| J1m | But personally, I really want to be able to use Zope3-style functional tests using testbrowser with Zope 2. :) | 16:11 |
| J1m | Note wrt traversal: | 16:11 |
| J1m | in Zope 3, we almost never do non-URL path traversal anymore. | 16:11 |
| J1m | In fact, I'm sorely tempted to deprecate it, except in ZPT. | 16:12 |
| J1m | There's really no reason to use it in Zope 3 anymore. | 16:12 |
| J1m | regebro, you might want to factor this into your thinking about traversal refactoring. | 16:13 |
| regebro | J1m: I'm note 100% sure what non-URL path traversal means... | 16:14 |
| regebro | in this context. You mean traversing tuples, or? | 16:14 |
| J1m | That's a good sign. :) | 16:14 |
| J1m | zapi.traverse in Zope 3. | 16:14 |
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| J1m | (un)restrictedTraverse in Zope 2. | 16:14 |
| regebro | Oh, that's what Phillip calls object-graph traversal. | 16:15 |
| HammerToe | any ZODB gurus around? Under what circumstances is _p_jar == None? | 16:15 |
| HammerToe | is it when an object is ghosted? | 16:15 |
| HammerToe | hi Jim :) | 16:15 |
| J1m | regebro, ok, that's a fine term. | 16:15 |
| J1m | HammerToe, just a minute | 16:15 |
| regebro | I don't mind deprecating it, bt philiKON seemed to think the distinction was important. | 16:15 |
| J1m | The distinction *is very* important. | 16:16 |
| J1m | That is, if you do object-graph traversal. | 16:16 |
| regebro | One of the refactorings I was considering is the fact that allthough they are conceptually important the code is almost exactly the same, and mostly duplicated. | 16:16 |
| J1m | But for Zope 3, we should stop doing it. | 16:16 |
| J1m | It is far more than just conceptual. | 16:17 |
| regebro | OK, and only use ob[key] consistently? | 16:17 |
| J1m | or ob.attr or whatever | 16:17 |
| J1m | in Python code | 16:17 |
| J1m | A major win in Zope 3 is that we don't publish anything unless there is a traverser that traverses to it. | 16:18 |
| regebro | Ok, but don't we need a consistent interface? Which in Zope3 would be ob[key]? | 16:18 |
| J1m | we don't have to worry about accidentally publishing some arbitrary method. | 16:18 |
| J1m | as we do in Z2. | 16:18 |
| regebro | Right. | 16:18 |
| J1m | Back when we needed object-graph traversal, it was very important to have different behavior in Python (or ZPT) than we had in URLs. | 16:19 |
| J1m | So while the code is similar, the fact that we look up traversal adapters using different interfaces is very important. | 16:19 |
| J1m | wert to consistent interfaces, no, we dn't need to be any more consistent than Python is. | 16:20 |
| J1m | wrt to consistent interfaces, no, we don't need to be any more consistent than Python is. | 16:20 |
| efge | HammerToe: _p_jar is None when the object has been created but the transaction is not yet committed (and add() wasn't called on the container's connection) | 16:21 |
| J1m | Python code should use Python-style object access, which is varied. | 16:21 |
| J1m | HammerToe, efge exatly. IOW, when the object isn't in a database yet. | 16:22 |
| HammerToe | hrm | 16:22 |
| regebro | Well, what I don't understand is why we don't need object-graph traversal. | 16:22 |
| HammerToe | this is an existing object AFAIK | 16:22 |
| HammerToe | oh wait | 16:22 |
| HammerToe | no it isn't lol | 16:22 |
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| efge | HammerToe: _p_changed is None when the object is a ghost | 16:22 |
| J1m | regebro, why do we need it? | 16:23 |
| HammerToe | it has just been migrated from another content type.... so was deleted and re-added... I am not trying to copy it in the same transaction and because _p_jar is None cb_moveable() returns false | 16:23 |
| J1m | we used to need it in z3 to get context wrappers set up correctly. | 16:23 |
| HammerToe | s/not/now | 16:23 |
| J1m | But we don't anymore. | 16:23 |
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| regebro | OK, I'll just trust you on that J1m. :) | 16:24 |
| efge | HammerToe: you can trigger a subtransaction to commit things and get a _p_jar, check what CopySupport or ObjectManager do | 16:24 |
| J1m | Now object-graph traversl just introduces unnecessary magic. | 16:24 |
| J1m | efge, you mean a savepoint :) | 16:24 |
| HammerToe | lol jim :) | 16:25 |
| efge | argh yes :) savepoint | 16:25 |
| efge | and I meant check those in z2 | 16:25 |
| efge | transaction.savepoint(optimistic=True) | 16:25 |
| HammerToe | errr. this is actually Z2.8.6... can't remember which ZODB that comes with... and whether it is savepoint or subtransation in that version | 16:25 |
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| drzoltron_ | anyone using kupu on zope3 ? | 16:33 |
| HammerToe | efge /jim: thanks for the help... triggering a savepoint sorts me out :) | 16:33 |
| regebro | J1m: Well, I half promise to fix the bug and deprecate ITraversal/ITraversable for 3.3. | 16:34 |
| regebro | That removes 90% of my refactoring ideas, and the rest can wait. :) | 16:34 |
| drzoltron_ | hi lennart | 16:35 |
| regebro | hi drzoltron_, all well? | 16:35 |
| drzoltron_ | regebro: yeah, finally gained some control over my project, and on your side ? | 16:36 |
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| regebro | All is well. Some small prohects that are stressed, but nothing major. :) | 16:37 |
| drzoltron_ | regebro: how's mr sarkozy these days ;) ? | 16:38 |
| regebro | Not as liberal as he should be. | 16:38 |
| drzoltron_ | hehe | 16:38 |
| drzoltron_ | does kupu work with zope3, anyone ? | 16:38 |
| J1m | regebro, I fear it isn't that simple. :( | 16:39 |
| J1m | While I want to deprecate the Python traversal apis, we still need object-graph traversal for ZPT path expressions. | 16:40 |
| J1m | At least I think we do. | 16:40 |
| regebro | Ok, then I don't follow you at all. | 16:41 |
| J1m | I'm on the phone atm... | 16:41 |
| regebro | If the distinction betwenn object-graph traversal and publishing traversal is important, we can't hve the same API for it. | 16:41 |
| regebro | And we must have *some* sort of API for object-graph traversal. | 16:42 |
| regebro | If we want to do it, | 16:42 |
| regebro | that is. | 16:42 |
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| J1m | back | 16:47 |
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| * J1m reviews ITraversable/ITraversal | 16:48 | |
| J1m | ok, so, I think we should deprecate ITraverser | 16:49 |
| J1m | The API for object-graph traversal is ITraversable. | 16:49 |
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| J1m | Any code that wants to do that has to get and use the adapter. | 16:50 |
| J1m | The only code that should do that is ZPT path expresssions. | 16:50 |
| * J1m quickly reviews tales... | 16:50 | |
| J1m | right, ZPT uses ITraversable. | 16:54 |
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| regebro | OK, that makes sense to me. | 16:55 |
| J1m | We would deprecate the Python traversal APIs like zapi.traverse etc. | 16:55 |
| regebro | I'll propose that, and it may or may not end up in 3.3. :) | 16:55 |
| J1m | yup, time is short. | 16:55 |
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| crocodil | Hi :) | 16:56 |
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| crocodil | I have a question... | 16:56 |
| crocodil | Is there a VirtualHostMonster on zope3? | 16:56 |
| crocodil | or something similiar... | 16:56 |
| crocodil | is anybody here? | 16:59 |
| J1m | yes there is | 16:59 |
| J1m | There is a URL namespace for doing virtual-host rewriting | 17:00 |
| regebro | ++vh++ | 17:01 |
| regebro | crocodil: Although I don't know where the docs are. :) | 17:01 |
| crocodil | :D a shame... | 17:01 |
| crocodil | ok, I'll look into it :) | 17:01 |
| crocodil | thanks! | 17:01 |
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| J1m | I assume that this is covered in one or both of the books. | 17:02 |
| J1m | That was implemented ebfore we adopted doctests. | 17:02 |
| J1m | before | 17:02 |
| regebro | Ah, of course it must be in Zope3book at least. | 17:04 |
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| philiKON | J1m, regebro, it's documented in my book | 17:52 |
| philiKON | J1m, is there a general way now to make a docfilesuite available as a module in sys.modules ? | 18:00 |
| J1m | yes | 18:01 |
| philiKON | in other words, i'm writing zope.foobar/README.txt and i'd like to import from zope.foobar.README... | 18:01 |
| J1m | see zope.testing.module | 18:01 |
| philiKON | ah, great | 18:01 |
| philiKON | thanks | 18:01 |
| regebro | Should a talinterpreters engine be a TALES Context? | 18:11 |
| regebro | Because talinterpreter.TALInterpreter.do_useMacro tries to call self.engine.getValue() | 18:12 |
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| regebro | And in Zope2 trunk, the engine is a TALES Context, and it doesn't have a getValue() ... | 18:12 |
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| regebro | Yeah, that can't possibly work. Trunk seems seriously broken. | 18:16 |
| regebro | But I suspect the fix is easy if you know what you are doing. :P | 18:17 |
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| Theuni | J1m: sorry that we didn't respond to your comments directly. we evaluated all of them and acted on each of it, cleaning stuff up, though | 18:36 |
| J1m | k | 18:36 |
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| * mgedmin is going to fix zope.app.mail ASAP: http://www.zope.org/Collectors/Zope3-dev/590 | 19:03 | |
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