IRC log of #zope3-dev for Thursday, 2006-04-20

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alecmj1m: So MacYET and philiKON suggested I pop in here and harass you for Zope commit privileges (in particular so I can commit the fix for :-)03:50
turiaxTo what extent is zope3 a mature product?03:54
turiaxMore specifically, what important things are missing from it?03:54
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J1m_philiKON, I'm hoping that I can merge the branch next week.13:50
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dlkphiliKON:  ayt?13:55
rockyburtJ1m_: you referring to the large branch that you and philip are current working on?13:57
rockyburtgreat, i've been reading wonderful things are happening on that branch and you were afraid it'd never get merged ;)13:57
* rockyburt eats one of his kids wildberry poptarts to celebrate13:58
J1m_It really *has* to get merged.13:58
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J1m_Since some Five work is depending on it afaik13:58
rockyburtoh wow13:58
rockyburtis that the branch that has some of the local component registration stuff that you and phillip did at the pycon sprint?13:59
* rockyburt thinks he may be confusing things now13:59
J1m_It really has 3 big things:13:59
rockyburtgreat ... local view component registration is something the plone community is desperately hoping will land for our further progression to zope3 techniques in zope2 ;)13:59
J1m_1. Adapter redesign that speeds Zope 3 up about 100%14:00
* rockyburt wows at #114:00
J1m_2. Major registration simplification, especially for local registration14:00
J1m_3. Philipps work on moving things out of
J1m_1 & 2 also set the stage for a bunch of other things.14:01
rockyburtthats some pretty cool stuff14:01
rockyburtwhat kind of things will 1 & 2 set the stage for?14:01
J1m_Unfortunately I won't have time to make progress on eggs for this release cycle. :(14:02
J1m_well, for example:14:02
J1m_- a "super" adapter lookup, akin to Python super method lookup14:02
J1m_- named subscribers14:02
J1m_- definition of local registration in zcml or file system14:03
rockyburtoh nice14:03
J1m_- better control of registration for test setup/teardown, especially for layers14:03
J1m_- more speedups in the future14:04
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rockyburtthe 100% zope3 speedup for adapters will be very nice14:05
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efgeis there any schema field type defined somewhere in zope for a file-like stream?16:08
efgeor should I say Object(schema=IFile)... ? for a suitable IFile16:10
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philiKONj1m, good to hear. i'll try to help with the deprecdation warnings16:32
philiKONefge, hurry.file has that16:33
efgeok thanks I'll check that16:34
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efgeif I have a container interface with a __setitem__.precondition, and that the interface it inherits from also has one, shouldn't the inherited precondition also be checked by I don't see that in checkObject's code..16:51
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alecmj1m: ping17:16
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whitis zope.testing going to be available as an egg?18:04
whitor perhaps is already?18:04
* whit should just go look18:04
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philiKONwhit, it's already18:29
whitdanke...didn't know about that...18:31
philiKONbitte :)18:32
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drzoltron_field2string throws me an encoding error when it gets input from a form containing national characters, any idea ?18:41
philiKONwhat on earth are you trying to do?!?18:41
drzoltron_hi philiKON :)18:41
philiKONhey :)18:42
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drzoltron_philiKON: page one with <form action="@@results" method="post">18:42
drzoltron_page results a BrowserView with a reuest.get() in the __init__18:43
drzoltron_works wonderfully with non-nationalistic-fascistoid characters18:43
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drzoltron_philiKON: check here:
philiKONwhy are you doing field2str() ?!?!18:45
philiKONzope.publisher gives you unicode18:45
philiKONyou should be happy18:45
philiKONah, wait18:46
drzoltron_I am not doing field2string, the publisher does18:46
philiKONit's the zope.publisher that's doing this18:46
philiKONmy bad18:46
drzoltron_... which I did not code ;)18:46
drzoltron_I just do a self.fritekst = request.get('fritekst')18:46
philiKONthis should work18:47
philiKONi wonder why it doesn't18:47
drzoltron_could it be some settings in the html form ?18:47
philiKONdon't think so18:48
philiKONi wonder about the Accept-Charset settings of the browser18:48
philiKONwhat browser are you using?18:48
philiKONtried with ff?18:48
drzoltron_right npow18:49
drzoltron_much better18:49
philiKONi bet safari f*cks up by sending something in Accept-Charset that zope can't understand18:50
philiKONpossibly the Accept-Charset: * bug is coming into play here18:50
philiKONBjornT is on that, afaik :)18:50
drzoltron_philiKON: no sorry, same problem18:50
philiKONwhat kind of character are you inserting?18:51
philiKONand what encoding is the form presented in?18:51
drzoltron_a fascistoid æ18:51
drzoltron_can i set encoding on a form ?18:51
philiKONwell, the whole page18:51
philiKONzope sends out a page in a certain encoding18:52
drzoltron_<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=utf-8" />  ?18:52
BjornTphiliKON, drzoltron: i don't think this has anything to do with Accept-Charset18:52
philiKONzope sends out a *real* content-type header18:52
philiKONContent-Type: text/html; charset=utf-818:52
philiKONBjornT, perhaps you can take over. i have no idea what's going wrong for drzoltron_18:52
drzoltron_BjornT: would be nice if you could18:53
philiKONdrzoltron_, wait. setItemWithType18:53
philiKONdrzoltron_, can i see your form?18:53
drzoltron_online ?18:53
BjornTdrzoltron_:  can you past the source for the html form somewhere?18:53
philiKONdrzoltron_, yeah, post it somewhere18:53
drzoltron_2 sec18:53
philiKONi bet you're doing   :list or something18:53
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drzoltron_philiKON & BjornT:
philiKONyeah. why are you doing text18:55
philiKONno wonder you're getting the error18:55
philiKONi think :utext is better than :text here because it's uncode18:55
philiKONbut it's completely unnecessary anyways18:55
philiKONdon't use :<something> fields18:55
philiKONuse proper field validation, e.g. with zope.formlib18:56
philiKONthen you also won't have to write them form yourself ;)18:56
drzoltron_philiKON: good point, happens when you get the form from a skinning-guy !18:56
drzoltron_who never has seen any zope3 before in his life ;)18:56
drzoltron_philiKON: will definately look into formlib18:58
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philiKONfor now you can just forget about :text18:58
drzoltron_philiKON: will18:59
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SteveAphiliKON: i'm doing something like this with launchpad, but i have an additional requirement, and i don't have some of the requirements you give20:07
philiKONi'm open for suggestions20:08
philiKONnote that this *is* a compromise as the name said20:08
SteveAone thing that i want to do is to have a single presentation class that has several "entry points", one per registered page20:08
SteveAi can't do this right now because of how the magic mixins are generated in the zcml processing code20:08
philiKONah, ok. i thought you had this20:09
philiKONwell, <browser:page /> won't do any magic anymore. it will just take a factory and register it as an adapter. basta20:09
philiKONdoesn't even have to be a class anymore20:09
SteveAthe way i planned to do this is:20:09
SteveA  use a different directive than browser:page, that does no magic20:09
SteveA  have a map of page names to method names20:10
SteveA  in the publish traverse code for these presentation classes, use that map20:10
philiKONi've thought about something like that too20:11
SteveAi'd elect to do this stuff by subclassing20:11
SteveAthis keeps the infrastructure obvious, but without any boilerplate20:11
SteveAi also want to look at using decorators to say where the entrypoints are20:11
philiKONyeah. perhaps this should replace <browser:pages> (the plural one)20:11
SteveAso something like20:11
SteveA  @pagemethod('index.html')20:11
SteveA  def index(self):20:12
SteveA  @pagemethod('foo.html')20:12
philiKONyes, i had this idea once20:12
SteveA  def foo(self):20:12
SteveAand to be able to do the same kind of thing for plain templates20:12
SteveAand always have templates declared directly in the class definition20:12
philiKONas said, i ahd this idea once (with the decorators), but it wasn't all too well received20:12
SteveAperhaps it isn't for zope3 core20:13
SteveAbut it will be very nice for launchpad20:13
alecmphiliKON: So there will no longer be a way to access a view method directly from outside the view (because there's no more allowed_*)?20:13
philiKONalecm, as you said, you're talking about views, not pages20:13
philiKON<browser:view> is for views that access things20:13
philiKONthat you want to access things from20:13
philiKONlike, absolute_url, etc20:13
philiKONyour @@Ploen thing20:13
SteveAand i have received permission and encouragement to split zope3-related infrastructure off from launchpad, and make it available under something like the ZPL20:13
SteveAso, i'm starting work on that, but it won't be there for a while, as i'm quite busy20:14
alecmphiliKON: As long as I still have something that I allows me to do context/@@view/method from a template or tal expression, I'm happy20:14
philiKONbut @@view won't be a browser page20:15
philiKONSteveA, that definitely sounds great20:15
regebroSteveA: What is the difference between your case ans what broswer:pages does in the proposal?20:15
SteveAi'd also like to use jim's component stuff to say adapts(IWhatever, IBrowserRequest) or something20:15
SteveAregebro: they all do the same thing in the end -- register views on objects20:16
SteveA... but i need to think about that syntax20:16
regebroSure, but when I read above your description, so me it sound exactly what browser:pages does.20:16
mgedminphiliKON: how exactly is a browser page different from a browser view?20:16
philiKONmgedmin, explaining that right now in an email20:17
philiKONmgedmin, wait 2 mins, ok :)20:17
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philiKONregebro, mgedmin, in short, a page is soemthing that's publsihed. a view is not (in general)20:17
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philiKONbrowser:view should die in favour of just <view />20:17
SteveAthat's interesting20:18
regebroI understand a view as having attributes, while a page is the attribute. :)20:18
SteveAwould you enclose it in some grouping element to say that it is for IBrowserRequest ?20:18
regebrophiliKON: In the proposal, browser:page use factory where browser:pages use class. That seems inconsistent.20:19
philiKONit's not20:19
philiKONbrowser:page is consitent with adapter20:20
philiKONand it can eat any factory20:20
philiKONeven a function20:20
philiKONbrowser:pages *needs* a class20:20
philiKONthat's because it will still do magic20:20
regebroAh, ok, got it.20:20
mgedmin+1 for TheBrowserPageCompromise20:21
philiKONregebro, your conception of view vs. page as an attribute is a bit mixed up20:21
philiKONa page is a view that's self-publishable20:21
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mgedminso a page is a view that provides IBrowserPublisher?20:21
mgedminwhile a view doesn't have to provide anything?20:21
philiKONhence it isn't publishable in a URL20:23
philiKONthe publisher will always adapt to IBrowserPublisher20:23
philiKONfor browser:view thingies there's no such adapter20:23
regebroDon't like it, but got it. :)20:24
regebroWhy does it need to do magic?20:24
mgedminbecause a single class can only have one __call__20:24
mgedminand browser:pages registers a few callable things that need to return different things when called20:24
mgedminso browser:pages needs to create classes dynamically20:24
regebroAha. OK, a page is a view that is self publishable. I ALMOST understand that.20:25
philiKONmgedmin, yes, it'll still have to create classes dynamically. browser:pages serves usecase #3 and it's part of the compromise :)20:25
philiKONregebro, right now, when you do <browser:page /> several times fo rthe same class, every time a new dynamically-generated subclass of that class is registered as an adapter20:26
philiKONif you still want that for brevity in ZCML, you can continue to use <browser:pages>20:26
regebroOne problem is that browser:pages sounds like it just does browser:page many times.  :)20:26
philiKONit currently does20:26
philiKONperhaps it should get a different name20:26
regebroThat's fine by me.20:27
regebroSo, when you do what I do most of the time, have more or less one view class per object, but use a host of templates for that view class....20:28 need to specifically add those templates to the class with PageTemplateFile(whatever)....20:28
regebro...and the do browser:pagesFromClass listing those attributes.20:28
philiKONyou'd pretty much do that now anyways20:29
regebroYeah, except that I actually have one statement per page instead of using pages. :)20:29
philiKONok :)20:30
philiKONgotta go, supper20:30
regebroNo problem. Lets discuss more on mail.20:30
philiKONif you got further questions or concerns, please email :)20:30
philiKONperhaps you can also mention the browser:pagesFromClass idea20:30
philiKONin case i forget ;)20:31
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alecmj1m: Pretty pretty please may I have Zope commit access? :-)21:10
rockyburtdon't do it!21:14
rockyburtalecm: you mean you've been the plone release manager for all this time and you haven't had zope commit access? wow ;)21:14
j1malecm, did you submit a contrib agreement?21:16
alecmj1m: Long ago (twice), but I'll fax another one over if needed.21:16
j1mMust have fallen though the cracks. Odd.21:17
j1mCan you email a scanned image to me?21:17
j1mscanned agreement21:17
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j1mThat seems to be the most reliable way.21:17
alecmOK, currently the computer connected to my scanner is acting up, but I'll get it to you by the end of the day.21:18
j1msorry we missed it before.21:18
* alecm gets excited about all the damage he will be able to do ;-)21:19
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whitanybody been bitten by trying to use setuptool .6a11, zope eggs, and Zope 2.9 on a Mac?21:32
whitcase insensitivity appears to wreak havoc if you have zope eggs in your easy_install.pth21:32
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alecmj1m: You should have my ZCA in your inbox22:55
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j1mso I do. :)22:55
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j1malecm, you should have instructions for uploading your keys in your mailbox. :)22:57
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alecmand so I do :-)22:59
alecmj1m: And everything seems to be working.  Thanks!23:03
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