IRC log of #zope3-dev for Monday, 2006-06-19

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engelkeI'm workin gmy way through the zope developer's handbook by richter and13:12
engelkeI'm already stuck in chapter 13 (step 1)13:13
engelkeruning the test script yields an error "empty module name"13:13
engelkecan anyone explain to me what that indicates?13:13
mexiKONengelke, you probably have a typo somewhere in a module name13:21
mexiKONengelke, without the proper traceback we can't help you13:21
engelkeI could quote it here if that's not a problem13:22
mexiKONengelke, note that the developer handbook as it is on isn't quite up to date13:22
mexiKONno, don't quote here13:22
mexiKONuse a pastebin13:22
engelkeI have the paper hardcopy, it's based on 3.0 right? We have 3.1 :(13:22
mexiKON3.2 is the current stable and 3.3 is on the way :)13:23
mexiKONif you're developing now, i recommend the 3.3 line13:24
mexiKONbecause by time you'll hit production, 3.3 will definitely be out :)13:24
engelkeI have no control over the zope version used; I'm just a cog in the machine ;)13:25
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mexiKONengelke, it looks to me as one of your test setups has a typo in the module name13:30
mexiKONbut i could be wrong13:30
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floxi am learning Zope 3, i installed Zope 3.3beta and try to figure out how it works, through examples15:34
floxi use book from von Weitershausen, and his examples...15:34
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floxi've done all the first chapters, but now, i am stick bec of an error.15:35
floxsomeone can help? if i paste the trace on
Theuniwe can try ;)15:36
floxi already tried on #zope, but they ask me to post on #zope-dev15:37
floxwhen i preview some page, i hav following traceback:15:37
floxand the pagetemplate that give error: (highlighted)15:38
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flox(if i put tal:on-error on these lines, it displays ok)15:39
* Theuni waits for pastebin to load15:39
floxthese examples are supposed to work with previous versions (3.1 or 3.2)15:41
Theuniright. if they work without warnings in 3.2 then they should also work with 3.315:42
Theuniif they give warnings in 3.1 already, then they might not work in 3.315:42
floxnot sure it works with 3.215:43
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floxfactly this is examples from a book that is 1 year old. advertised to work with 3.0 or 3.115:43
Theunithen 3.3. might be off your list15:43
Theuniplease try 3.2 first and check what deprecationwarnings you get15:44
floxand i started to learn Zope3 with version 3.3 (previously, i worked with Zope 2.8)15:44
Theunithe deprecationwarnings tell you how to make it fit for the next version too15:44
floxok, thank you.15:44
floxi hav to install and do the test, now.15:45
floxTheuni: factly, u don't know wher if i can find examples targeted to 3.3?15:46
Theuniwell. the book should be ok in general15:46
TheuniThe general concepts are still around15:47
TheuniThe implementation details have changed a bit, sometimes in an incompatible way15:47
floxTheuni: yes, the book is very good. but i hv to figure out how to change the layers/skin thing to not have deprecation warnings15:47
rockyTheuni: flox's problem in this case is that he's using getService (per the example) and getService has been gone for a while15:47
rockyusing getUtility instead15:47
Theunithat's one example :)15:48
floxrocky: i put the getUtility instead of getService, but still KO. i hv to figure out how to use it better15:48
baijumflox, read first section of this article
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floxbaijum: thanks a lot for this pointer. this is this kind of article i was looking for, to help me understand differences between 3.1 (or 3.2) and 3.315:50
baijumflox, but it's not complete :(15:51
floxbaijum: this is a good start, indeed15:51
floxbaijum: than i can dive into Python code to figure out better what has changed15:52
baijumit's a wiki, you can edit it if any error found15:52
rockyphiliKON: hey, flox is trying an example in your book that uses getService to look up menu's and he needs to know what the equivalent now in zope 3.3 is as he's learning on zope 3.315:52
floxbaijum: ii see the warning at the beginning of the wiki page ;)15:52
floxphiliKON: instead of 'zapi.getService(servicenames.BrowserMenu)'15:54
floxphiliKON: is it that?15:54
philiKONwell, instead of zapi.getService(...).getMenu(...)15:54
floxphiliKON: fine15:54
floxphiliKON: thank you for your book, i just bought last week.... hehe15:55
philiKONthanks for buying it :)15:55
floxphiliKON: i've printed the Errata page, too. this is a good way to have up-to-date information, when Zope evolves so quickly15:56
philiKONthe errata page just covers my mistakes15:57
floxand some things for Zope 3.2, too15:57
philiKONah, yeah15:57
philiKONanyways, i'm working on an updated version of the book :)15:57
floxi guess...15:57
floxwhen i see ur chapter on Services..... hard to figure out how it evolves in new Zope version15:58
philiKONservices are simply gone :)15:58
floxi see.... rocky told me to look at adapters and utilities15:59
floxhe told me that services are included in these concepts, now16:00
flox(this is what i understood)16:00
philiKONyeah, basically, we found that we can design all components as either utilities or adapters16:00
floxphiliKON: i have still an erro with ur example, for chapter 1216:02
floxphiliKON: ComponentLookupError: (<InterfaceClass zope.component.interfaces.IFactory>, None)16:03
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philiKONah, z.c.createObject('thefactory')16:03
philiKONforget the first None16:03
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floxphiliKON: new Error, NotImplementedError("This function is no-longer implemented"):16:06
floxphiliKON: view = zapi.getView(plaintext, '', self.request)16:06
philiKONflox, z.c.getMultiAdapter((plaintext, self.request), name=u'')16:07
floxphiliKON: i can use zope.component. or zapi., no difference? zapi is a shortcut for useful functions, no?16:11
rockyflox: yes, zapi is a shortcut for useful functions, but it is unofficially deprecated (that is, most people prefer to use zope.component and such directly)16:13
* benji hates zapi and counsels against its use16:13
SteveAi consider zapi harmful16:13
SteveAit is banned in launchpad16:13
* rocky agrees16:13
floxok, i will whange my habits. this is easy, since my habits are just 3 days old.....16:14
floxphiliKON: now it works! at least the preview rendering16:15
floxphiliKON: thanks, now i have to figure out for the PDF, by myself16:15
floxphiliKON: thk you for your help on this case16:16
philiKONperhaps you'll like to write a review on my book some time, e.g. on amazon :)16:16
* philiKON is off to buy a curry wurst w/ french fries :)16:17
* flox will be happy to write such review16:19
benjiphiliKON has made benji hungry16:23
floxbenji is at GMT+2, too?16:24
Theuni-4 or so16:29
regebro-4? Isn't that like just outside New York. In the ocean? :)16:36
floxyes, it looks like Groeland, no?16:37
regebroGreenland, yes. But also Canada, Brazile and a whole host of small countries:16:40
* rocky is at -0230 :)16:41
regebroOh, newfoundland?16:41
rockyyep :)16:41
rockynewfoundland has its own timezone :)16:41
romanofskilike south australia - changing for half an hour the clock - bzzzz16:42
philiKONgrmpf, they had no curry wurst16:43
* philiKON got pizza instead16:43
philiKON>>> z.c.getUtility(IFastFood)  # be surprised16:44
philiKON<pizza object at myt4bl3>16:44
regebro>>> z.c.getUtility(IFastFood, 'curry pizza')16:45
regebroComponent Lookup Error16:45
philiKON>>> z.c.getUtility(IFastFood, 'curry pizza')16:45
philiKONSegmentation Fault16:45
mgedminI hope you had ulimit -c 0 ;)16:47
philiKONno,  curry pizza is just wrong16:48
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SteveAi'm having a problem with using layers, and defining a default view18:43
SteveAso, i have a publication where i use a subclass of my standard browser request type, which just implements(SpecialLayer)18:44
SteveAso, all requests using that publication are for the SpecialLayer layer.18:44
SteveAthe problem comes when i want to look up the /@@/ view, the no-name view that gives access to resources18:45
SteveAthe problem is that I registered that the defaultView name for SpecialLayer is "specialname"18:45
mgedminThe View That Must Not Be Named18:45
benjihence forth known as vwoan18:46
SteveAthis is implemented by registering an adapter from (MyRootObject, SpecialLayer), for IDefaultViewName18:46
SteveAthe adapter returns u'specialname' when used18:46
J1mSteveA, /@@/ has nothing to do with the default view name.18:46
SteveAthe problem is that when the publication traversal machinery looks up the view18:47
TheuniJ1m:  what is your motivation that generations catch import-errors on install() but not evolve()? (I think they shouldn't get caught by install() either)18:47
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SteveAas (MyRootObject, SpecialLayer), for Interface18:47
SteveA(because we don't have a special interface for published views yet)18:47
SteveAthen the adapter found is the one for IDefaultViewName18:47
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SteveAso, the object i get back from /@@/ is the unicode u'specialname'18:48
SteveAi will undoubtedly have the same problem with other views i try to get18:48
SteveAbut this is the first one18:48
philiKONthis sucks :)18:48
SteveAthaks for the moral support :-)18:49
philiKONbrowser traversal should look up views as adapters that provide IBrowserPage18:49
SteveAany suggestions as to what to do18:49
philiKONlike you suggested, make the browser publication look up views as adapters providing a specific interface18:49
philiKONi suggest IBrowserPage18:49
philiKONhence it's what we've assumed so far anyways18:49
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philiKONIBrwoserPage = IPublishTraverse + __call__18:50
philiKONOTOH, you might also be traversing views that aren't called in the end...18:50
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philiKON'+' is a view but not necessary published by itself18:50
philiKONso, perhaps IPublishTraverse is enough18:51
SteveAthis is more of a long term thing you're talking about18:51
mgedminIPublishTraverse or IBrowserPublisher?18:51
philiKONat least this interface should clearly indicate "you can publish me"18:51
philiKONmgedmin, heh, would have to look that up :)18:51
philiKONSteveA, true18:51
philiKONthat term has to begin at some point, though :)18:52
mgedminIBrowserPublisher = IPublishTraverse + browserDefault18:52
SteveAthis did used to work18:52
philiKONmgedmin, k. makes sense18:52
SteveAso, i think something in the last release or two changed18:52
SteveAso that there's this interference between default view name registration and adapter registration18:53
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philiKONSteveA, well, since the default view is specified using this adapter?18:53
SteveAwell, view registration18:53
SteveAyeah, i guess it was previously specified not using an adapter18:53
philiKONmgedmin, i still think IPublishTraverse would be enough as a requirement for views. browserDefault is only necessary for stuff that gets called in the end, right?18:53
philiKONSteveA, right, it was specified in the presentation service18:53
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philiKONSteveA, i must say, i never like the empty name view (/@@/) nor the fact how the defualt view name are wired up18:55
SteveAa workaround18:55
SteveAwould be making default views registered as a named adapter18:55
SteveAthis would stop them interfering with view registration18:55
philiKONheh, you could do that18:55
philiKONIMO /@@/ could just as well have gotten an explicit name18:55
SteveAthis is a pretty serious problem for the release IMO18:55
SteveAbecause it makes layers useless for changing default views18:56
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philiKONand the default view machinery is pretty overengineered, imo18:56
philiKONwhy can't we just have the convention that '' is the default view?18:56
philiKONany adpater you register as '' is the default18:56
SteveAthat's an interesting new proposal, but a large change18:57
SteveAseeing as there's a release coming up, i'm more in favour of fixing things for the release18:57
philiKONwell, as for the release... i would guess there's code that depends on the default view name being wired up as it is18:57
philiKONas an unnamed adapter18:57
philiKONyou'd break that...18:57
SteveAi think the main reason for the current default view behaviour is to support the familiar "index.html"18:58
SteveAit is actually very very difficult to turn that off -- to get unnamed views as default views, using the current zope318:58
J1mI'll note that I tried to interest someone in working on cleaning this up for 3.3 and that it is too late to clean it up for 3.4.18:58
SteveAor, i was trying in the wrong way18:58
benjiperhaps we can go ahead and deprecate the unnamed-view-as-default behavior now as a setup for the other way18:58
SteveAJ1m: what do you think about using a name for registering default views, so that functionality to do with registering default views for a particular layer will actually work without messing up other views on that layer?18:59
SteveAor changing default views back to using a separate registry18:59
J1mI'm too lazy too look at the code atm...but18:59
benjioops, I should have said: deprecate views-registered-with-Interface in favor of an IView (or similar)19:00
J1mI believe that the default-view adapter is looked up with a specific interface and no name.19:00
J1mI would say that this is as it should be.19:00
SteveAthat is correct19:00
SteveAthe specific interface indicates that a unicode is returned19:00
J1mThe *problem* is that pages, including the unnamed page that allows resource traversal are looked up without a meaningful interface.19:01
SteveAthis is also so.19:01
J1mThat is the *real* problem that we didn't fix in 3.3 and that we should really try to fix for 3.4.19:01
J1mimo, this would make a great ep sprint/discussion topic.19:01
SteveAactually, this problem applies only to the unnamed page for resource traversal19:02
SteveAbecause that's the only page where the default view registration interferes19:02
SteveAso, default views *does* have something to do with the /@@/ view (for anyone reading the log in the future) :-)19:02
J1msure, for now.19:02
J1mI'm sure this will get worse over time.19:02
J1mI think the following work-around will work:19:03
SteveAre-register the unnamed view against Interface19:03
SteveAfor that layer19:03
J1m- Any time you register a default-view adapter for some type, also....19:03
SteveAi was worried that this applied to all views19:03
J1mThe fix is to stop looking up pages as providing Interface.19:04
SteveAbut then i realized that only the unnamed view will have this issue19:04
rockyhm... best practices question for you all ... i have a plone site (IPloneSite) and i want that plone site to become special type of site (ISpecialPloneSite) ... ISpecialPloneSite contains some extra metadata regarding the plone site ... is my best bet to simply use adapter = ISpecialPloneSite(someplonesite) and then store the special metadata using annotations ?19:05
J1mSince the extra data is meta-data, then I would use annotations.19:09
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rockywell, the extra data at this point is site configuration data19:09
rockyspecific to ISpecialPloneSite19:09
SteveAJ1m: the fix works.  one thing is, I needed to change the interface to register it for from ISite to the same interface I registered the new default view name for.19:10
SteveAwho maintains the release notes?19:10
J1mI thought you did that!19:10
SteveAi can write this up in a form suitable for these, if i know where to put it / who to give it to19:10
J1msrichter, >19:10
SteveAi've never maintained release notes19:11
J1mI was kidding.19:11
J1mI think that the only thing we have along those lines is CHANGES.txt.19:11
SteveAi thought maybe you'd got the Stephen and the Stephan confused ;-)19:11
TheuniSteveA:  put it in the 3.3 branch on CHANGES.txt, the trunk will be updated manually later by someone who will be randomly appointed19:13
Theuni(if you changed it in 3.3)19:13
SteveAok, thanks19:13
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baldtrolgood afternoon everyone :)  i'm trying to get a better handle on the way list widgets work, when you hit the "add" or "remove" item button.  i've looked at the source, but I don't think I *get* it.20:21
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baldtrolif I have a currently empty list, and hit the "add whatever item" button, it seems to post to the action url, increment the total list number, update the new textline widget with the prefix.item.values.number sequence, and display the new text widget line...  but what in the view is responding to that?20:22
mgedminI have tried to use the ListSequenceWidget (and regretted it) on numerous occasions20:22
baldtrolhmm...  i'm asking (and this may be redundant with my zope3-users mailing list post) because my static form works with the standard list widget...  but my ajax form (pulled from the same identical url view) doesn't20:23
baldtrol...well, it works, but no matter what "submit" action i take (update, add new item, remove item, etc), all list widgets get a new textline appended, every time.20:24
mgedminbaldtrol: check SequenceWidget._generateSequence20:24
baldtroleeeexcellent ;)20:24
mgedmin        if + ".add" in self.request.form:20:24
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baldtrolso i guess i'm confused.  i'm setting up the context correctly, because i see the data of the remote object in the form... is there something about the way a post action refreshes the form that would break on remote retrieval?20:30
mgedminwhat's "remote retrieval"?20:32
baldtrolthe form is located in a context that is displaying data from a different context...  i just change the context based on the hidden fields in the form, or the url request.  which works fine, except for this "appends an extra blank field" bit.  it looks like "if adding: sequence.append(None)" is occuring, even though the "add" button hasn't been hit.20:33
baldtrolthanks for chatting with me about it, regardless.  talking it out sometimes helps clear my thinking :\20:35
mgedminalso check that the count of values isn't remember when you switch to a different context20:35
baldtrolhmmm...  that sounds suspiciously like what may be happening.  but i'm not sure i know how to "check" that...  how do you mean?20:36
mgedminmaybe I misunderstood...20:38
mgedmindo you actually change the underlying list object on form posts?20:38
mgedminbut leave other request arguments untouched?20:38
baldtroli override setUpWidgets, and based on a few request/post params, change the context before handing it to applyChanges20:39
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pcardunemgedmin or anyone else: is there a way to set the default skin on certain objects and subobjects so you don't have to see the ++skin++ in the url?20:57
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mgedminpcardune: define a subscriber on IBeforeTraversalEvent and call applySkin if the object traversed provides the interface of your object/subobject20:58
pcardunemgedmin: would that override whatever skin was specified in the url (if i wanted to revert back to rotterdam for a while)20:59
pcarduneare there any plans to provide this kind of functionality in zcml tags?21:02
pcarduneor good reasons not to?21:02
rockyis there an easy way to dynamically populate default values for my formlib based fields? dynamically as in: on a per-request basis21:07
mkerrinpcardune: try editing the file $INSTANCE/etc/overrides.zcml - there is already an example comment in this file for redefining the default skin for an instance.21:09
pcardunethanks mkerrin21:10
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agroszerhi, I guess Martijn is the developer of the hurry.* packages?22:09
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baldtrolvocabulary question...  i have a Choice style widget i'd like to present to a user.  however, the vocabulary for that choice widget is based on the who the user is, and an rdb lookup on the backend.  when establishing a vocabulary, the only param i've seen that you can pass in is "context"...  (per the way i see how to make and register a vocabulary in examples and source)23:58
baldtroli need to be able to pass in "request" as well, to determine the principal, and thus their available choices23:58
baldtrolis that possible?  are vocabularies the right way around that?23:59

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