IRC log of #zope3-dev for Tuesday, 2006-06-20

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mgedminyou could extract the principal from the current interaction...00:10
philiKONwell, from one of the participations of the current interaction00:11
philiKONthough usually the only participation hapens to be the reuqest :)00:11
baldtrolyeah :\00:11
baldtrolbasically i have a few content objects associated with a principal.  the content objects hook back into an rdb, and it's a view on those content objects that need to have the choice widget.  but the vocabulary needs "request" in order to seek for the right bits out of the rdb to create the right choice elements...00:13
baldtrolif vocabularies aren't the right way, that's ok too.00:13
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floxi see that directive <factory> is deprecated, replaced by <utility>10:34
floxbut we still use sub-directive <factory> inside a directive <class>10:34
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philiKONflox, you can, but you don't have to10:40
philiKONflox, i don't :)10:40
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floxin ur example, u still use subdirective 'factory'10:52
flox<class ...><factory id="worldcookery.Recipe" title="Create a new recipe" description="..." />10:54
philiKONwell, yeah, my example is also 2 years old :)10:54
floxi know10:54
floxbut how i formulate this one differently?10:54
floxi try to remove any deprecation from these exemples (to better understand how things evolve)10:55
philiKONfrom zope.component.factory import Factory10:55
philiKONrecipeFactory = Factory(Recipe)10:55
philiKON<utility component=".recipe.recipeFactory" name="worldcookery.Recipe" />10:55
floxfirst  2 lines should be added to "", i guess10:56
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philiKONflox, exactly :)11:04
floxno more deprecation on example from chapter 1211:05
philiKONflox,  :)11:05
floxphiliKON: still a problem in zcml file11:10
floxphiliKON: it does not accept subdirective <utility> below a directive <class>11:11
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philiKONflox, not utility subdirective11:12
philiKONflox, utility top-level directive11:12
philiKONit's just a standard utility11:12
floxbut i can link the class to the utilty?11:12
floxor i just repove the class...11:12
philiKONrecipeFactory = Factory(Recipe)11:13
philiKONRecipe is the class11:13
philiKONrecipeFactory is a factory from the Recipe class11:13
floxhow i register them in the zcml?11:13
philiKONi just told you11:13
floxthe utility is top-level, ok11:13
floxi just keep remove the old <factory> from the <class> and that's all?11:14
floxok i try this11:14
philiKONflox, have a look at
floxfactly, i already seen this page....11:15
floxbut i missed the point on *class/factory*11:16
floxnow it is ok... :)11:16
floxit works!11:17
floxi am in charge to evaluate the benefit to switch from to Zope3 for our Zope/Plone project11:19
philiKONif it uses a lot of plone technology, it might make more sense to use zope3 technology in zope 2 via five11:20
floxno... factly we changed completely the Plone skin... we do not use it.11:20
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floxwe started with Plone bec we were newbies, and it looks easier, at the beginning11:21
floxand the features or Plone, we do not use a lot11:21
floxwe have to clean-up everything and re-engineer large parts of the site11:22
floxthis is the reason, i try to push to adopt Zope3....11:23
floxbut i lack some arguments11:23
philiKONwell, why reengineer if it already works?11:23
floxit is low-performance11:24
philiKONthere's your argument :)11:24
philiKONof course, plone can be made fast...11:24
floxin ur book u tell that catalog and indexing are "still in development"11:25
floxi guess that today it works ok, no?11:25
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adamSummersHello oh wise ones12:27
adamSummersI have a question: Is there any way using the browser:page directive, that I can specify that the Type of a page rendered is not "text/html" but rather "application/vnd.mozilla.xul+xml"?12:34
philiKONadamSummers, has nothing to do with the registration12:34
philiKONrequest.response.setHeader('content-type', ...)12:35
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adamSummersphiliKON - thanks, but I'm grappling with this. I put in:  <vbox tal:define="x python:request.response.setHeader('content-type', 'application/vnd.mozilla.xul+xml')">12:56
adamSummersbut I get the following error when viewing the page:  File "/Users/adam/z3-dev/Zope3/src/zope/publisher/", line 851, in _implicitResult12:56
adamSummers    raise ValueError(12:56
adamSummersValueError: Unicode results must have a text content type12:56
philiKONdon't paste things here12:56
philiKONuse a pastebin12:56
philiKONah, 2 lines are ok :)12:57
philiKONit hought you were going to paste the whole traceback :)12:57
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philiKONhmmm. that's weird12:57
adamSummersNo mate- I wouldn't dream of it :)12:57
philiKONi wonder if that's mandated by some spec12:58
philiKONi would file a bug12:58
mgedminbut is it a bug?13:00
* mgedmin reads logs13:00
mgedminif a view's __call__ returns a unicode string13:00
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mgedminthe zope publisher encodes that string into some charset (well, it's always UTF-8, but it could be some other)13:01
mgedminand changes the Content-Type header to mention that charset13:01
mgedminnow the charset="..." parameter is only defined for text/* MIME types13:01
philiKONso, there's the spec :)13:01
mgedminadamSummers: I'd fix that in a view class:13:01
mgedminclass MyView(BrowserView):13:01
mgedmin  template = ViewPageTemplateFile('')13:01
mgedmin   def __call__(self):13:02
mgedmin        self.request.response.setHeader('Content-Type', 'whateveritwas')13:02
mgedmin        return self.template().encode('UTF-8')13:02
philiKONself.request.response.setHeader('Content-Type', 'whateveritwas; charset=UTF-8')13:02
philiKONand i'd use BrowserPage as a base class :)13:02
philiKONsounds good, though13:03
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adamSummersI'll let you know how I go in a while -- thanks13:08
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mgedmina crashing laptop is not fun :(13:11
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volvoxre:formlib.. ehm. i'm inside an inputwidget. Can I find somewhere the action that has just been called? request cannot seem to have it. I know I should handle it somewhere else, but I need this to work asap14:34
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volvoxoh well, it has a form.actions.43616e63656c6c6120726963686965737461   I'll try and use that, hope it is ok14:38
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mgedminvolvox: you might want to specify a more human-readable name to the @action decorator14:44
mgedminit uses the hex-encoded label by default (when the label contains certain unsafe characters)14:45
volvoxoh well, the label is 7-bit ascii14:45
volvoxi'm not diving inside "Wrong contained type"... message errors are a bit obscure sometimes, but I can handle it14:46
volvoxname is a different parameter than label. I'm setting it now14:47
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adamSummersphilIKON, mgedmin: success/成功!感谢你们15:16
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avoinehi, if i have a interface that take a Textline but i don't want him persistent what can i put as my class attribute? I try BrowserView but i have this error: Cache values must be persistent objects16:37
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avoinedo you think the prefix _v_ can help me?16:39
mexiKONadamSummers, ??:)16:41
mexiKONerr, ??16:41
mexiKONdamn this tiny font16:43
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* mgedmin wants a frozendict17:04
* benji wants a pony17:09
rockyhmm... how do you all feel about a new zcml directive that creates an actual new view component (and even creates the new class for that component) but doesn't need an existing class to exist?  is it evil? i guess this is sort of what <browser:page> does17:13
mgedminyup, evil17:15
benjirocky: I'd suspect most would consider that evil17:15
baldtrolnot that i'm a core dev guy at all, but i'm -1 on zcml doing more than it does already :\17:15
* mgedmin sometimes wishes for user-defined zcml macros17:16
* mgedmin is sometimes evil, too17:16
rockyany of you familiar with the zope 2 CMFFormController product ?17:16
* Theuni wants a frozenpony17:18
ignasrocky: evil, as it does not save that much effort, but greatly increases the effort required for extending the view in any way17:18
rockyignas: well, the particular idea i have would be *greatly* simplified if it were all done via zcml17:19
rockybasically i want to define the page flow in ZCML which would create a view component that follows that page flow17:20
faassenrocky: it's currently not allowed to extend ZCML for anything :)17:20
ignaswhich would basically become a tool for doing that specific task, in a general purpose framework17:20
faassenrocky: you're supposed to type a lot of ZCML17:20
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rockyfaassen: have you used CMFFormControler before?17:20
faassenrocky: no, I saw a presentation on it once long ago.17:21
rockybasically i'd like to define page flow: if page 1 is submitted by action 1, it goes to page 2, if its submitted by action 2, it goes to page 3 ... when action 8 is submitted on page 3, it performs some validation and then goes to page 617:21
rockyetc etc17:21
rockywith CMFFC, that kind of logic is defined by .metadata files17:21
rockyi'd like to do a similar concept but defined by ZCML17:22
benjirocky, I don't hold "custom" ZCML up to the same standard as core ZCML though, if you define ZCML for your project and it helps you, feel free17:22
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rockybenji: well, what i'm brainstorming about i'd love to contribute back to zope 3 core as an extension to formlib or as a new "zope.pageflow" type project17:22
* rocky wishes people weren't so anti-zcml these days ... 17:23
faassenrocky:  if you want it to fly at all in the current Zope 3 consensus thing..17:23
faassenrocky: you define it in terms of existing ZCML thingers.17:23
rockyfaassen: nothing to compare it to ;)17:23
faassenrocky: and you have a few handy factory functions that you call from your ZCML17:23
rockywell... perhaps describing it like how you do zope.wfmc stuff17:23
faassenrocky: the zope.annotation package has an example of a handy factory thing.17:23
faassenrocky: formlib of course does a lot in Python and then hooks it up using ZCML17:24
benjiif you really think the ZCML makes a major contribution (opposed to using Python), try it; if it's compelling it might get into the core17:24
faassenrocky: I don't know whether your usecase could work that way. I don't even know whether I agree with the consensus on ZCML.17:24
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faassenrocky: but I also don't disagree with the consensus, so I'm just waiting until I got a better idea. :)17:25
rockywell, all i'm really talking about is basically autogenerating formlib based views with appropriate actions so that i can model page flow in zcml and touch little code (of course you'd still need to write code if you want custom stuff to happen during an action)17:25
faassenautogenerate formlib based views, huh? :)17:26
faassenI mean, I can tell you one thing, editform was evil.17:26
ignasrocky: ZCML being something like a small Domain Specific Language that can be extended "easily" i am weary of adding new keywords to it unless they are of a general purpose (having an extension, like another namespace etc. is fine though)17:26
* mgedmin is pushing for a purely functional zcml17:27
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mgedminor should I say declarative?17:27
faassenmgedmin: how is ZCML not purely declarative now?17:27
rockyi can see the only way i could properly get feedback is if i were to demonstrate a use case being fulfilled ;)17:27
mgedminwell, I want it to be order independent17:28
faassenthat'd be nice.17:28
mgedminand unloadable at run time17:28
faassenI'm interested in experimenting with a way to make ZCML go away/autogenerate ZCML, something.17:29
mgedminwith an internal notation that is not a list of tuples that contain references to unpickleable closures constructed by the parser17:29
benjiplus, if ZCML were "unloadable" the test layers could then be torn down, making the tests faster17:29
faassenI mean, ZCML should be there when needed but not when not needed. As to ZCML being a more declarative language I'd be happy, I pushed for that in the past.17:30
faassenwhen TALES expressions were sneaking in and such. :)17:30
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rockyfaassen: the biggest problem with the whole "be there when needed but not when not needed" is that most people have no idea when its needed or not needed ;)17:38
rockyso many people don't understand that keeping configuration out of python has huge advantages when bringing in non-python people17:39
benjirocky, I percieve some of that as is a tension between the we-write-deploy-and-maintain-it people and the we-write-it-and-throw-it-over-the-wall people17:41
baldtrolrocky: not to jump in, but the glut of zcml directives provides another hurdle to jump when bringing in non-python people.  i've been playing with zope3 for almost a year, and i still learn new things about zcml once in a while.17:41
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baldtrolunless zope3 is the only framework you use and develop for and in, it's just "another thing to remember and forget"17:41
rockybaldtrol: the logic has to be implemented somewhere, whether its in xml or in python code, its still "another thing to remember and forget"17:43
rockybut regardless, too much xml is a bad thing too17:43
rockyi'm not saying zcml is perfect17:43
rockyi just think there's a healthy compromise17:43
rockyj2ee has waaaaaay too much crap in xml17:43
Theunibaldtrol:  i'm "using" zope 3 since it began, and i'm learning news things everyday :)17:46
baldtrolsorry, didn't mean to dip on the conversation...  we found a baby snake in the office, had to escort it outside17:52
benjistrangely enough, baldtrol, I've had the same experience, but with a baby bird :)17:53
baldtrolrocky: i think zcml is great, i'm not picking on it directly.  i just know that i use rails, a little pylons, turbogears, and a lot of zope3...  things in markup that are obvious (browser:page, mailer: etc) should be there...17:53
baldtrolbut too much configuration that's not in the language i'm using, or using an xmlns i'm not familiar with, just makes for something that impedes, rather than accelerates, development times :\17:54
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baldtrolbenji: hee...  a little snake i can see sneaking in...  how did a baby bird wander in? :)17:54
rockybaldtrol: right, i think thats pretty much how i feel17:55
rockybut for me, i see modeling workflow as something better suited to XML than python17:55
faassenI'm not discounting explicit configuration.17:55
faassenor domain specific languages.17:55
faassenI'm just wondering whether we have a more graceful path.17:55
faassenfrom just 1 file apps to multi file explicit configuration apps.17:56
faassenlet alone multi file explicit configuration you've got tests for everything under the sun apps.17:56
baldtrolrocky: i agree...  have you looked at the xml design for workflow in srichter's workflow package?  it's a good one, and is set up as an element of the workflow, not zcml config.  admittedly, that may be picking nits at that point, but the UI dumps and reads in the xml on it's own, should you want to do it that way17:56
faassenand I wonder whether we can't get mor agility into it all.17:56
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benjibaldtrol, there was a small hole on the outside of our building; apparently it's mother thought it would be a good place for a nest, it turned out the hole was open to the inside too and the baby fell out onto the floor17:57
baldtrolawww :)17:57
baldtrolwas it ok?17:58
faassenwhat kind of bird was it?17:58
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Theunidid taste like chicken or pony?18:00
benjiit was a robin of some sort, I had to sneak up on it to be able to catch it, funny sight18:02
baldtroli now have cartoon *dum-dum-dum-dum-daaaaa-dump* sneaking music in my head.18:03
benjiheh :)18:04
ignasis that music special ?18:04
baldtroljust the standard warner bros. bugs-is-sneaking-up-on-someone kind of special18:05
benjiit's good sneaking music18:05
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ignaswhy use the #\* then18:05
baldtrol**blinks confusedly18:05
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ignasbaldtrol: sorry wrong channel18:11
ignasbaldtrol: a context heavy joke :/18:11
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baldtrolah, ok18:12
baldtrolcool :)18:12
ignasand not even funny when i think about it ;)18:13
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mgedminField inherits Attribute, but IField does not inherit IAttribute19:00
mgedminis that correct?19:00
mgedminI mean, intentional?19:00
* mgedmin just discovered that adding an attribute named 'interface' to a custom field is not a good idea19:01
srichternot intentional19:02
srichteryou can safely add this19:02
srichtersince attribute requires there to be a name, which certainly IField also requires19:03
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* Theuni puts the frozen pony into his fridge19:18
mgedminthat's a large fridge...19:21
* mgedmin wishes WrongContainedType would be more explicit19:22
mgedminthe code (Object._validate) actually stuffs informative errors into the WrongContainedType exception19:23
mgedminbut the end-user does not see any of them19:23
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mgedminsrichter: making IField inherit IAttribute breaks zcml, which says <allowed name="__name__" /> and <require permission="zope.ManageContent" interface=".interfaces.IField" />20:42
mgedminI don't have the time to chase this now20:42
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mgedminI keep using <tal:comment> ... </tal:comment> and forgetting to include condition="nothing"21:23
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floxi try to send back a 'application/xml' document fom a PT22:05
floxbut an error occurs bec of "ValueError: Unicode results must have a text content type."22:05
baldtrolflox: if it's really just an encoding issue, you can str() your results, or .encode("latin1") or something similar22:07
floxmy tag is: <tal:if condition="validReceipt"      replace="structure context/example.xml/data" />22:08
floxi should use python inside the TALES expression?22:08
floxthe XML is plain ASCII22:08
mgedminflox: ignore the tales expression; read the irc log excertp I linked22:08
mgedminit contains the answer to your question22:09
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floxmgedmin: i try to do that TTW22:12
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mgedminfile a bug?22:13
floxmgedmin: but i will implement ur example, i think22:13
floxmgedmin: this is a bug, you think22:13
mgedminwell, yes22:15
mgedminyou should not be able to cause a SystemError by entering values in web forms, IMO22:15
mgedminI take that back22:15
mgedminsyntax errors in page templates cause System error messages too22:16
mgedminnevertheless it is at the very least confusing to the users, as you've demonstrated22:16
floxi try to change the Charset inside the header... but useless:22:18
flox<span tal:define="dummy         python:request.response.setHeader('Content-Type', 'application/xml;; charset=UTF-8');" />22:18
floxj'ai la même erreur à la sortie22:19
mgedminI think you cannot work around this restriction22:19
floxso i will add some piece of python code to work around this22:20
floxtaking ur example from earlier today22:20
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volvoxis there a ZPT .txt, wiki or whatever specifically for z3 ?  I'm just trying to use a macro I've defined a few lines above...23:57
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