IRC log of #zope3-dev for Thursday, 2006-07-06

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philiKONhi J1m. can't sleep?01:01
J1mI'm dealing with this damn security issue. :(01:02
philiKONthe rest thing?01:02
J1mThat someone announced in a lightening talk.01:02
philiKONright, i saw the brazillion emails01:02
philiKONon the plain, theuni and i looked at another bug01:02
J1msorry about that.01:02
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J1mI wasn't sure if it affected zope 3.01:02
J1mplus, you're pretty involved in z2.01:03
philiKONi saw a wrap up of the lightning talk (someone blogged about it)01:03
philiKONnah, no problem about the emails01:03
philiKONi actually appreciate being included01:03
J1mabout the security thing?01:03
philiKONit seems that docutils has its priorities wrong01:03
projekt01philiKON, hi01:04
philiKONhi projekt0101:04
projekt01philiKON, did you see my mail about the codespeak repo access?01:04
philiKONprojekt01, i saw your email :)01:04
philiKONhaven't read yet :)01:04
philiKONjust got back 1 hour ago01:04
J1mThey did a nice job of not mentioning zope.01:05
J1mGood for them.01:05
philiKONJ1m, wow, you guys already have a hotfix out01:07
J1mIt is a quite serious problem.01:08
J1mIronically, it shouldn't have been an issue.01:08
J1mThe last hot fix we did should have fixed this problem, but it didn't hit enough places.01:08
philiKONso, "raw" is like "file" (except for the raw interpretation), and we only disabled "file" but not "raw"?01:08
J1mTres came up with a fix that tore the problem out at the roots. :)01:09
J1mThe one option we were setting was actually enough.01:09
J1mWe just didn't set it in enough places.01:09
J1mdisabling input disables input for raw too.01:09
philiKONJ1m, andreas's checkin says, though:01:10
philiKON                 'file_insertion_enabled' : 0,01:11
philiKON+                'raw_enabled' : 0,01:11
philiKON                 }01:11
J1mwe were mistaken at that point.01:11
J1mIt has been a long evening. :(01:11
* philiKON takes a look at the hotfix01:12
philiKONlol, i like that hotfix01:13
dunnythe hotfix README.txt should include Zope 2.9.3 as an affected version?01:13
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J1myes, thanks.01:28
J1mI've fixed that.01:29
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elbixiohi everybody, does anyone know a python chart library that understands the datetime type?10:27
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floxwhere is gone the  "ObjectAnnotationsModifiedEvent"12:42
floxi do not find such event in Zope 3.312:42
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projekt01dobee, the problem with the codespeak repos was a bug in the Kaspersky Anti Virus prog14:43
dobeeprojekt01:  ah, ok good to know14:44
dobeeprojekt01: btw, hope to see you here at lovely office the next days, stephan is here already14:44
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rockylast time i saw dobee it was drunk and acting quite funny... ;)14:46
rocky*he was14:46
rockydobee and his wine :)14:47
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dobeerocky: it was beer ;-)14:47
rockydobee: oh, haha ... it was wine the night before then ;)14:47
rockyactually i think it was srichter who kept buying all the wine14:47
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dobeerocky:  yes14:48
srichteryeah, I had a 120 Euros tab14:48
* rocky had a 30 euros tab from drinking coke ;)14:48
projekt01dobee, should I come to visit you?14:48
projekt01whould be a nice trip with my new Buell14:49
rockysrichter: i took a picture of you during your last drunken episode ... so if you ever run for congress ... beware the blackmail :)14:49
dobeeprojekt01: jeah of course14:50
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floxhello, i hav a question about Events15:17
floxwhen we use 'ObjectModifiedEvent', it accepts additional arguments, called "modification descriptions"15:18
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floxhow we use such "modification descriptions"?15:19
floxfactly, i want to suscribe an event when some change is performed on a custom metadata... but i don't know how to do it.15:21
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rockyflox: if you want to subscribe to some change is performed on custom metadata, then you want to create your own custom event and fire off that event when your code changes the custom metadata15:26
rockythen you can subscribe to your custom event and content type15:26
floxrocky: ok, i'll do that15:31
floxrocky: at the same time, i try to figure out how to use "modification descriptions"15:31
floxit seems u can use any interface or any z.lifecycle.Attribute or z.lifecycle.Sequence as "modification descriptions"15:34
floxbut i do not find many examples that use "modification descriptions"15:34
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ChrisWphiliKON: ping?15:53
ChrisWMJ: ping?15:54
ChrisWOh well, is anyone actually alive here?15:54
ChrisWI'm looking at
ChrisWthe comment for ITranslationDomain.translate refers to a "Domain" object "since it supports all the simplifications"15:55
ChrisWwhere does this Domain object exist?!15:55
hannoschChrisW: heya, it says it's a domain = TextLine, so an object implementing ITranslationDomain should have this attribute15:56
ChrisWno, that's just a string attribute identifying the translation domain15:57
ChrisWI have a suspicion this mythical "domain" object doesn't exist ;-)15:57
hannoschah you are reffering to the Note, well the closest here is Message objects which store a domain and a text15:58
ChrisWyeah, but you can't translate with them15:58
ChrisWI'm looking for the Domain object referred to in ITranslationDomain.translate15:58
ChrisWbut I don't think it exists15:58
* ChrisW wheels out svn blame...15:58
* ChrisW smells srichter15:59
ChrisWsrichter: ping?15:59
* ChrisW wants to add a method to ITranslationDomain anyway, that allows you to get a list of the languages available for that domain...16:00
hannoschChrisW: that should be simple. If you have a look at the translationdomain implementation, it's probably just returning self._catalogs.keys()16:04
ChrisWah yes, well, not quite that simple16:04
ChrisWthat gives you a list of ids, some of which are things like en_us or en_gb16:04
ChrisWbut anyway, the interface needs adding to, since it's defficient16:04
hannoschok, you can normalize them to en_GB if you prefer ;)16:05
ChrisWwell, what should be returned is the same 3-tuple that you need to call locales.getLocale with...16:06
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svennhgI'm trying to install wcsite-1.2.1.tgz with zope 3.2.1. I have copied wcsite-1.2.1 to lib/python/wcsite, added wcsite-configure.zcml to etc/package-includes and restarted zope. Now what? How do I create a new instance of wcsite?16:20
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baijumsvennhg: I think you have update etc/overrides.zcml16:27
baijum<browser:defaultSkin name="WCSite" />16:27
baijum  <adapter16:27
baijum      for="zope.publisher.interfaces.browser.IBrowserRequest"16:27
baijum      provides="zope.i18n.interfaces.IUserPreferredLanguages"16:27
baijum      factory="wcsite.language.FixedLanguage"16:27
baijum      />16:27
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ChrisWanyone know how I get to run tests in my zope source tree rather than my instance?16:29
ChrisW(trying to test the changes I'm making to zope.i18n)16:30
baijumChrisW: make; export PYTHONPATH=/path/to/src;python zope.i18n16:32
baijumsorry, python -s zope.i18n16:32
ChrisWI'm justing running off a normal build16:32
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ChrisWhaving to set the python path sucks there16:32
ChrisWif zopectl run can find it, why can't zopectl test?!16:32
ChrisW(AND that doesn't work for me...)16:34
ChrisWfrom zope.component.zcml import utility16:37 an ImportError16:37
ChrisWwhere does zope.component.zcml live now?16:37
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ChrisWmy bad16:38
ChrisWhey, philiKON :-)16:38
svennhgbaijum: Cannot find any diff between what you wrote and my etc/overrides.zcml.16:38
ChrisWjust the man I'm after...16:38
ChrisWITranslationDomain.translate refers to a Domain that "supports all the simplifications"16:39
ChrisWStefan wrote the line16:39
ChrisWbut I can find no such Domain object16:39
ChrisWis the comment out of date?16:40
philiKONlooks like you're after srichter, not me...16:40
ChrisWyeah, I know, but he's MIA16:40
ChrisWand, as god of all things i18n/five/etc, thought you might have an opinion16:40
ChrisWalso, how would you feel about adding a listLanguages (or some such) method to ITranslationDomain?16:41
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philiKONi can't make any sense about this last paragraph in the docstring16:41
philiKONi *assume* it is indeed outdatede16:41
ChrisWno, me neither16:41
ChrisWmind if I remove it on the trunk?16:41
philiKONdating back to when translate() was part of the translation service api16:41
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philiKONwell, ask srichter16:42
philiKONproposals like adding stuff to existing API are best submitted to the z3 list16:42
ChrisWyeah, I want to work up a patch first16:42
philiKONwhat's the use case?16:43
ChrisWlisting the available languages16:43
ChrisWsomething PTS did16:43
philiKONChrisW, btw, there's ILanguageAvailabiility16:43
ChrisWand Z3 currently does not16:43
philiKONfurther down this file16:43
philiKONyes it does16:43
philiKONsee that interface16:43
philiKONit's just not a required part of ITranslationDomain16:43
ChrisWso it does16:43
philiKONit's an optional thing16:44
ChrisWfair enough, so I guess I just write an adapter?16:44
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ChrisWwell, sorry16:44
ChrisWmaybe I use the wrong words...16:44
philiKONwell, perhaps not. i dunno. an adapter for what to what?16:45
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baijumis it necessary to set python path to run unit tests as said here :
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ChrisWGrrrphiliKON: ping?16:54
ChrisWGrrrgrrr, pay per second wireless16:54
philiKONChrisWGrrr, pong16:54
philiKON[15:44] ChrisWmaybe I use the wrong words...16:54
philiKON[15:45] philiKONwell, perhaps not. i dunno. an adapter for what to what?16:54
ChrisWGrrrsorry, as I was saying: translationdomain has the information16:54
philiKONbaijum, no. python should simply work16:54
ChrisWGrrrit just needs to grow an  getAvailableLanguages method16:54
philiKONChrisWGrrr, though it doesn't seem to expose it in any API16:54
philiKONChrisWGrrr, right16:55
philiKONat which point it can formally implement IAvailableLanguage16:55
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philiKONor whatever it was called16:55
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ChrisWokay, but what do I do to make that happen?16:55
philiKONuh, what do you mean?16:56
philiKONyou know how to read code, don't you?16:56
ChrisWsorry, I meant in terms of procedure16:56
ChrisWdo I need to change translationdomain16:56
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ChrisWor can I add some kind of extra component that will make translationdomain grow IAvailableLanguages16:57
ChrisW(hence my thinking of adapter)16:57
ChrisWbut adapters only adapt interfaces, right?16:57
philiKONadapters adapt objects16:57
philiKONbut they'll never change existing apps16:57
philiKONexisting components16:57
ChrisWwell, they don't need to16:57
philiKONwell, TranslationDomain doesn't expose its avaiable language sthrough any API16:58
philiKONthere's nothing that the adapter could use to "grok" the available languages16:58
ChrisWI'm looking to adapt a translationdomain.TranslationDomain object to IAvailableLanguages16:58
ChrisWI know I need to write a method16:58
philiKONhow would that adapter work?16:58
ChrisWbut where do I write that method?16:58
philiKONgee, you got my book, right?16:58
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philiKONstill, an adapter is the wrong thing here IMO16:59
ChrisWI guess my line ofthinking would mean youd' need to be able to adapt a class, and I'm not sure you could do that16:59
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philiKONsorry, you're not making any sense to me :)16:59
philiKONadapting a class, an interface, ?!?!16:59
philiKONread my book again :)16:59
philiKONadaption won't help you here16:59
philiKONjust extend (simple)translationdomain and be done with it17:00
ChrisWI've read your book17:00
ChrisWand I know it can't be done with adapters17:00
ChrisWbut I wonder if it should be able to?17:00
ChrisWafterall, an Interface is just a class17:00
philiKONan interface is no class17:01
ChrisWyeah yeah, I know17:01
ChrisWbut step back from how things currently are17:01
ChrisWwhat is wrong with adapting a class to an interface17:01
ChrisW(as a concept)17:01
ChrisWI know it won't currently work, yada yada...17:01
philiKONit wouldn't be adaption in the sense we have it today17:02
philiKONclasses typically imlement things17:02
philiKONso, you'd adapt a class to *provide* that new interface or to *implement* it?17:02
ChrisWboth ;-)17:03
ChrisWbut you're correct17:03
ChrisWthe right thing here is just to write the method in translationdomain.TranslationDomain and then have that implement IAvailableLanguages17:03
philiKON+1 for that on the trunk17:04
ChrisWthen I guess I'd do  zapi.getUtility(ITranslationDomain, 'mydomain').getAvailableLanguages() in my code, right?17:05
ChrisWor would I do zapi.getUtility(IAvailableLanguages, 'mydomain') ?17:05
philiKONexcept you couldn't be sure that the 'mydomain' domain object was also providing IAvailableLanguages17:05
philiKONfirst of all, drop that 'zapi' shit :)17:05
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ChrisWhey ,I'm just copying what Martijn did in silva :-P17:06
philiKONthe 2nd example wouldn't work, probably17:06
philiKONno, not probably17:06
philiKONit wouldn't work. period.17:06
ChrisWwell that's shit17:06
philiKONbecause the 'mydomain' translation domain is not registered for IAVailableLanguages17:06
philiKONhere's what we should do17:07
ChrisWshould it be registered? ;-)17:07
philiKONyeah, here's my suggestion:17:07
* ChrisW goes to get champagne :-P17:07
philiKONwe create an interface that extends both ITranslationDomain and IAvailableLanguages17:07
philiKONcall it whatever you like :)17:07
philiKONyou make translationdomain implement that17:07
philiKONand then you make the code whichever registers translation domains (i think zope.i18n.zcml) register them for this interface17:08
philiKONand then you can look them up for that interface too17:08
philiKONand you'll definitely know that you have the IAVailableLanguages API17:08
floxhi, i hv error on ztapi.handle() from philiKON book example17:08
ChrisWphiliKON: can I make a different suggestion?17:09
philiKONChrisW, sure17:09
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flox    ztapi.handle((IRecipe, IObjectModifiedEvent), notifyModified)17:09
floxAttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'handle'17:09
ChrisWextend ITranslationDomain to include getAvailableLanguages and get rid of IAvailableLanguages17:09
ChrisWnothing uses IAvailableLanguages17:09
philiKONflox, zope 3.3 isn't BBB with zope x3 3.017:09
philiKONflox, ztapi.handle is probalby just gone17:09
philiKONChrisW, true, but lots of stuff uses ITranslationDomain17:10
philiKONpossibly 3rd party stuff17:10
philiKONand now we're changing the contract for ITranslationDomain17:10
philiKONwe can't do that17:10
philiKONflox, use zope.component.provideHandler17:10
philiKON(has a different argument ordering, though)17:10
ChrisWI'd put money that no-one has implemented ITranslationDomain...17:10
ChrisWI find these huge numbers of tiny interfaces a complete pain in the arse...17:11
philiKONChrisW, i wouldn't be surprised if launchpad had its own implementation, for example17:11
ChrisWyeah, maybe to implement IAvailableLanguages ;-)17:11
philiKONplone is looking into doing i18n the z3 way as well17:11
philiKONi don't think we should change the contract17:12
philiKONbring it up on the list if you want17:12
philiKONwell, bring it up on the list either way...17:12
ChrisWoh well, for now, I'll subclass translationdomain, make it implement IAvailableLanguages and register my subclass for IAvailableLanguages too17:12
philiKONyou can do that17:12
ChrisWwhat should I use instead of  zapi.getUtility?17:12
philiKONzope.component instead of zapi17:13
philiKONanyways, instead of chickening out of the work, you could also help us get it right in z3 :)17:13
floxphiliKON: thks17:13
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ChrisWright, and getUtility(ITranslationDomain,'mydomain').translate is the way to do translations in my own code?17:13
floxphiliKON: i succeed in porting example from chapter 14 to Z3.3...17:13
ChrisW(ie: non-zpt)17:14
ChrisWor is there something else I should use17:14
* ChrisW digs out philiKON's book17:14
floxphiliKON: trying to do the same with chapter 15 :-)17:14
ChrisWand philiKON: not chickening out of the work17:15
philiKONgood :)17:15
ChrisWit's just that this needs discussion on the list, and it can't land before Zope 2.1117:15
ChrisW...which is a little late given I need this for customer work I was due to deliver on the 2nd July ;-)17:15
philiKONgotcha :)17:16
philiKONso, yeah, custom subclass is good for adhoc then17:16
ChrisWit's why we like zope 3 :-)17:17
ChrisWquick refresher on how I register my new subclass for both ITranslationDomain and ILanguageAvailablity?17:18
ChrisWzcml or python?17:18
philiKONwell, you'll want to create instances of these from gettext files, right?17:19
ChrisWif you say so, I'm 90% clueless here ;-)17:19
ChrisWI have no idea where these are created17:19
philiKON<i18n:registerTranslations directory="locales" />17:20
ChrisWI just got them with getUtility(ITranslationDomain) so far :-S17:20
philiKONthis is what goes thru the 'locales' directory and registers each domain object17:20
philiKONgetting them is easy17:20
philiKON(you don't really need to get them for trnaslation, though)17:20
philiKONzope.i18n.translate() is what you should use for translating messages17:20
ChrisWso the only thing I'm actually likely to do is getUtility(ILanguageAvailablity,'mydomain')17:21
philiKONbtw, hannosch is looking into refactoring some things in zope.i18n17:21
philiKONmght be worth a shot talking to him at somepoint too17:21
philiKONChrisW, right17:21
ChrisWso, I write my cute subclass with it's one method17:21
ChrisWnow, how do I wire that in?17:21
philiKONlook at zope.i18n.zcml.registerTranslations17:22
ChrisWurm, I'm using Zope 2.9.317:22
ChrisWno .zcml ;-)17:22
ChrisWso I have to replace that registerTranslations method?17:23
philiKONwell, no.17:24
philiKONcreate your own veresion of it17:24
philiKONthat in addition to doing:17:24
philiKON        utility(_context, ITranslationDomain, domain, name=name)17:24
philiKONalso does:17:24
philiKON        utility(_context, IAvailableLanguages, domain, name=name)17:24
ChrisWthen how do I wire my new version of registerTranslations in?17:25
philiKONand then you register that handler as a new zcml directive17:25
philiKON<chrisw:registertranslations />17:25
philiKONor whatever17:25
ChrisWcan I replace the existing one?17:25
* ChrisW reiterates that zcml both sucks and blows... *sulk*17:26
philiKONyes you can17:26
philiKONif you do it right17:26
philiKONyou need include your declaration as an override17:26
philiKON*after* the metas have been loaded, but *before* the rest of the stuff is loaded17:27
philiKONyou'll have to copy Five/skel/* to instance_home/etc17:27
philiKONand modify etc/site.zcml17:27
ChrisWsounds like a plan17:28
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ChrisWheh, or I can just do what Martijn did and hack it ;-)17:28
philiKONsure :)17:28
ChrisWsee the getAvailableLanguages method on
ChrisWthe actual docs for IAvailableLanguages also sucks17:30
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ChrisWwhat does it actually return?17:30
philiKONi would assume an iterable17:31
ChrisWit should really return a sequence of 3-tuples that can be used to call locales.getLocale17:31
philiKONfine by me17:31
philiKONwe accept patches :)17:31
ChrisWyeah, I have commit rights, can I just change it?17:32
philiKONnot sure if i am to decide this :)17:32
philiKONplus, i think you should get together with hannosch17:33
ChrisWfine, I'll do it and see who whine ;-)17:33
ChrisWwhines, even17:33
philiKONhe's been suggesting refactorings17:33
ChrisWwhere is he?17:33
philiKON#plone usually17:33
ChrisWwas he at epc?17:33
philiKONthough usually later17:33
ChrisWoh well, I'm gonna mail a summary of this to the list and hack it for myself :-/17:34
ChrisWI _am_ going to change IAvailableLanguages though, 'cos it isn't actually clear right now...17:34
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ChrisWweird, I don't appear to be able to commit from here :-S17:42
ChrisWor is something up with comitting to right now?17:42
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* flox is going to take a drink17:50
* flox is over with chapter 15, events and suscribers... and tests are OK (Total: 49 tests, 0 failures, 0 errors)17:52
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rockyphiliKON: i think ChrisW has a permban in #plone btw ;)18:21
Theunithat's very likely18:24
philiKONrocky, how come?18:24
rockyphiliKON: because #plone is for helping people and he comes in and basically just talks about how bad archetypes and plone is18:25
rockyi think limi setup the ban18:25
philiKONhehe, yeah, well, they don't get along :)18:25
philiKONchris tends to write emails "i just found a bug. can somebody fix it please"... i'm always tempted to respond "you have checkin rights, right?"18:26
philiKONwhich reminds me, /me needs to to some bug squishing today18:26
philiKONwe all should do that18:26
* TresEquis thinks that he might have spent enough time on that yesterday ;)18:27
philiKONand what a bugfix that was! :)18:27
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TresEquisI still don't get how people use SVN to find out about things which have been removed18:29
ChrisWGrrrsvn log is your friend18:29
TresEquisthere doesn't seem to be any notion that "it used to be here" is information somebody would care about18:29
ChrisWGrrrTortoiseSVN is absolutely awesome for introspecting repositories18:30
ChrisWGrrrI'm sure there's some form of svn log that will effectively ask "what used to be here, forever, ignoring moves,etc"18:30
ChrisWGrrr#svn is quite a good place to ask18:30
ChrisWGrrrsussman can often be found lurking ;-)18:31
* TresEquis finds himself digging through gmane's checkin log to figure that out18:31
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ChrisWGrrrTresEquis: can you give me an example?18:32
ChrisWGrrrand for everyone: how do I register a utlitity?18:32
ChrisWGrrr(my specific use case is Zope 2.9.3, but I'm interested more generally)18:32
TheuniChrisWGrrr:  local utility or global (if global, zcml or python)18:33
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ChrisWmmm, dunno18:33
ChrisWglobal will likely do for this project18:34
Theuniis the utility a persistent object?18:34
ChrisWno need18:34
Theunithen global would be fine18:34
ChrisWhow'd I register a utility in python?18:34
ChrisWI mean zcml?18:34
TresEquisChrisW: OK, suppose you are trying to figure out when zope/app/skins was removed?  How do you do that?18:35
Theunidecide! zcml or python?18:35
ChrisW(oh, and meta-question: are you at the sprints now?)18:35
* Theuni is at his office now18:35
ChrisWwow, that was quick18:35
ChrisWoh yes, you left yesterday18:35
* ChrisW is in airport18:35
ChrisWand zcml18:36
Theuni<utility provides="interface" factory="dottedname"/>18:36
ChrisW(otherwise you have to try and get the python triggered somehow, and that usually ends up being zcml *mutter I hate zcml *mutter*)18:36
ChrisWTres: mm18:36
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ChrisWI reckon svn log is the way to go18:37
ChrisWbut I don't think it does it yet, lets see what #svn says18:37
TheuniChrisW:  check the api documentation for zcml stuff, all the docs about those things are in there18:37
ChrisWok, another general question, what happens if two utilities register for the same interface?18:38
ChrisWwhich one does a getUtility call return?18:38
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ChrisWhey benji :-)18:41
benjihi, ChrisW18:41
TresEquisChrisW: the second registration (assuming they use the same name) will raise a ZCML conflict18:41
TresEquisor, if done in overrides, will replace the first18:41
TresEquisthe key, (interface, name), is unique in the registry18:42
TresEquisif you do it in Python, then you need to figure it out yourself :)18:42
ChrisWsee, well, I'll be posting to zope3-dev shortly18:43
ChrisWwould be interested in your thoughts on that...18:43
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drzoltronzope throws me a "exceptions.ValueError: Unicode results must have a text content type." on upload of a doc via xml, any idea ?20:26
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floxhi again20:51
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floxpreviously, we need to extend interface IRegisterable in order to make a component registerable20:57
floxwhat is the situation in Zope 3.3? every component is registerable, without such declaration?20:58
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floxhello rocky... maybe u can confirm21:06
floxi try to figure out if we need to extend some interface to make a component 'registerable'21:06
floxor if every component is registerable...21:07
floxbec an (old) document states that we need to extend interface "IRegisterable"21:07
rockyoh, i honestly don't know21:09
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floxrocky: ok thanks...21:13
floxi see lots of deprecation ... about IRegisterable and ILocalUtility21:16
floxi guess we do not need to extend such interface in recent Zope 3.3... but not sure21:16
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flox<browser:tool> is gone...21:52
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floxwhich directive we should use?21:53
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philiKONflox, none...22:23
philiKONtools are stupid22:23
philiKONflox, btw, yes, everything is now registerable22:24
philiKONno need for ILocalUtility or IRegisterable22:24
* flox like to migrate to 3.322:27
floxi just hav to remove ILocalUtility, IRegisterable and <browser:tool>...22:28
flox... and chapter 17 is almost over (49 tests, 0 failures, 0 errors)22:29
floxphiliKON: good... easier to understand, now22:30
floxi will try VirtualHosting through LightTPD instead of Apache22:31
* flox is reading section 17.322:32
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baldtro1philiKON: i haven't seen srichter around for the last few days, had a question to ask him about his soap implementation.  do you know if he's going to be back around anytime soon?22:38
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philiKONbaldtro1, sorry, no22:53
baldtro1all good...  relatedly, i've found the svn for zc et al projects before, but can't seem to currently.  the web view points to svn locations that have moved...22:54
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