IRC log of #zope3-dev for Wednesday, 2006-07-26

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volvoxhi there12:33
volvoxI would like to know if a book like this could be useful to a z3 developer for intranet applications12:33
volvoxPatterns of Enterprise Application Architecture (Hardcover) by M. Fowler12:34
volvoxit seems well done, does anyone know it?12:34
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ktwilighthmm...i dunno 'bout that. but have you looked at the two available books for z3?12:39
volvoxktwilight: it's not about the tool, but the design of complex software..12:40
*** dobee|fh has quit IRC12:41 clue then :)12:41
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SteveAvolvox: yes12:45
SteveAvolvox: read all books by martin fowler12:45
volvoxSteveA: well, I like him, but for instance with Refactoring, half of the examples make little sense with python :-)12:45
volvoxi will read it, thanks12:46
SteveAparticularly the section on distributed systems12:46
SteveAwhere it basically says "don't"12:46
volvoxdistributed systems are like a dungeon full of traps12:47
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roymA recurring use-case in my application seems to be the creation of14:17
royminterfaces to allow uses to do many-to-many mapping. The presentation14:17
roymusually is an input form that looks like a sparsely populated grid14:17
roym(often radio buttons). Are there any established patterns or14:17
roymtechniquest to handle this sort of thing?  I find myself writing the14:17
roymsame code again and again.14:17
faassenhm I don't know..14:20
faassenone technique you might be able to use is to define a new widget14:20
faassen(and perhaps a new schema field for storage, if what's available doesn't apply)14:20
faassenwriting a new widget is more up-front work but once it's done it's quite convenient to use.14:20
volvoxfaassen: i've looked at hurry.workflow, as I told you at europython, to replace my dumb workflow14:22
volvoxi need to check if the current principal is the one that created the object14:22
volvoxinside the condition, how do I get hold of the current principal? I only have the context object14:23
volvoxand don't know how I am supposed to get the request.principal14:23
* volvox thinks it's probably a dumb question14:24
roymvolvox: I asked the same sort of questions, and someone told me that usually, that type of determination needs to happen in the views... (ie: before they get to the context method).14:26
volvoxroym: I'm using a workflow component because I don't want to do state management in the view..14:26
roymagreed, but don't you usually get to the method via a view method of some sort. afaik, the principal is usually defined in the context of an interaction, and the context classes are generally unaware of requests and principals.14:28
volvoxroym: so if everything fails I could ask for the interaction and get the request from there?14:29
roymI think its more like you have always have to pass the principal from a view to the context methods.14:30
volvoxroym: the function that is called is the condition: def NullCondition(wf, context)... no request there14:31
volvoxbut i'll look deeper,tnx14:31
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roymI have a table view (hundreds of cells) - I plan to render each cell14:47
roymusing a construct like "content="obj/@@viewA | obj/@@viewB". Is this14:47
roymtype of fallback processing costly, or reasonable to do?14:47
SteveAusing tal:repeat is costly14:51
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roymSteveA: when rendering a table, how can one avoid tal:repeat?14:54
SteveArender it in python, and include it that <div tal:replace="structure view/renderTable" />14:55
mexiKONroym, take a look at zc.table, perhaps14:55
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roymok - wouldn't have suspected tal:repeat to be expensive. As for my question about fallback processing being costly (cos intuititively, I think that involves a try/catch), what are your thoughts?14:58
roymmexiKON: where is zc.table?15:00
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SteveAroym: the cost of using tal at all vastly outweighs the additional cost of a single try-catch15:06
SteveAtry-except in python-speak15:07
SteveA(java programmer uncovered ;-)  )15:07
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roym :) ooops - just that I get paid to do java (daytimes)15:08
* rocky was fortunate enough to give up his java day job a couple years ago ;)15:09
roymmexiKON: zc.table looks very promising, thanks.15:16
roymmakes me wonder what else is there outside of z3-trunk that I might have benefited from. Is there a listing/README/overview that I might look at?15:17
faassenvolvox: who were you at europython?15:29
faassenroym: not yet, we need to start doing such things for zope.org15:31
faassenroym: there's quite a lot of fun stuff hiding out in also the hurry stuff at
faassenvolvox: anyway, I saw some of the discussions, yeah, it's kind of unpleasant to have to get the principal from the request..15:32
faassenvolvox: there's a hacky way to get to it otherwise, let me look it up for you15:32
* rocky snickers at faassen's shameless plug *grin*15:32
faassenrocky: the hurry stuff? :) yeah, I wrote the hurry stuff :)15:32
volvoxfaassen: getInteraction().participations[0]  ?15:32
faassennot all of it anymore, Stephan Richter has been improving ..15:32
faassenvolvox: right15:32
faassenvolvox: that's it.15:33
faassenI think there should be some Zope 3 API for that to do that officially somehow.15:33
volvoxnaa, people would use it in content objects ;-)15:33
faassenas it's really convenient, especially from within workflow and stuff.15:33
faassenwell, I'm of the philosophy that if people want to do evil stuff they'll find out ways to do anyway15:33
faassenZope 3 can't stop them. it can only encourage the right way15:34
faassenand it's just a plain common usecase to want to get to the principal.15:34
faassenI'm not even sure whether it'd always be a bad thing from within a content object.15:34
rockywell, that's the philosophy of python in general15:34
rockyno such thing as private members, etc15:34
faassenright. :)15:34
* volvox thinks one private member per male developer is enough15:34
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mexiKONromanofski, how's the skin coming?15:46
romanofskihaven't had time the last days, but will continue the work today15:47
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romanofskimexiKON: installed an instance on my box at home so I can surely continue with the work :)16:17
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