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| febb | Hello ! | 20:36 |
|---|---|---|
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| benji | hi febb | 20:37 |
| febb | mexiKON : hi are you htere ? | 20:37 |
| febb | hi benji how are you ? | 20:37 |
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| benji | good, you? | 20:37 |
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| febb | good also, thanks.... fighting with Zope3 now ! ;) | 20:38 |
| benji | :) | 20:38 |
| febb | well.. is anything going on over here today ? seems kind of quiet . | 20:40 |
| benji | not at the moment, this is normally a pretty quiet channel, lots of busy people :) | 20:41 |
| febb | thats true..... | 20:41 |
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| febb | had a question for mexiKON but seems hw is not available now. | 20:42 |
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| febb | re hi | 21:34 |
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| gabrielboys | could someone help me out a bit, I am writing up a proposal for a web application, and I am looking for some good points on why we should use Zope3 | 22:08 |
| benji | gabrielboys: I think Theuni has some good material on that, but I don't know where it is at the moment (and he's probably AFK) | 22:10 |
| benji | gabrielboys: what kind of "good points" are you looking for? from a development standpoint, admin, other? | 22:14 |
| gabrielboys | sorry got distracted there | 22:18 |
| gabrielboys | development, stability, extensability | 22:18 |
| benji | are you/they already Python programmers? | 22:18 |
| gabrielboys | they have a zope2 app | 22:18 |
| gabrielboys | I have done some python | 22:19 |
| gabrielboys | and the person that developed it for them no longer works tehre | 22:19 |
| benji | down side is Z3 is quite different from Z2, the up side is that it's almost entirely better :) | 22:19 |
| gabrielboys | yeah | 22:19 |
| gabrielboys | I guess from my point of view | 22:19 |
| gabrielboys | at this point | 22:19 |
| benji | it's also possible to use Five to more slowly migrate from Z2 to Z3 | 22:20 |
| gabrielboys | Zope3 seems really good if you are going to need to have the system be accessed from a lot of different angles, webDAV, FTP, HTTP, etc. | 22:20 |
| gabrielboys | but not sure how well suited it is to just create a fairly straightforward web app, mainly due to the learning curve | 22:20 |
| benji | ahh, actually /I/ don't think so, that's one of the downfalls of Z2: try to conflate too many things into one package | 22:20 |
| gabrielboys | yeah we talked about Five | 22:21 |
| gabrielboys | right | 22:21 |
| gabrielboys | their setup is really unstable and confused | 22:21 |
| benji | it depends mostly on both the sophistication and scale of the app... | 22:21 |
| gabrielboys | so we realized that it is pretty much a rewrite, so we are looking at other things than just zope | 22:21 |
| gabrielboys | right | 22:21 |
| benji | ...if it's a fairly complex piece of software, the Z3 patterns will really help (components, etc.) | 22:22 |
| gabrielboys | It is moderately complicated I guess with a fair amount of traffic | 22:22 |
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| gabrielboys | bascially it is a place for people to upload these projects | 22:22 |
| gabrielboys | and have discussions and such | 22:22 |
| gabrielboys | as well as view others projects and that kind of thing | 22:22 |
| gabrielboys | nothing too crazy complicated | 22:22 |
| gabrielboys | like a complicated buiness system or something | 22:22 |
| gabrielboys | *business | 22:22 |
| gabrielboys | I guess the other front runner right now is ruby on rails | 22:23 |
| gabrielboys | so I am just looking for good and bad points on each | 22:23 |
| gabrielboys | I figured this would be a good place to ask about Zope goodness | 22:23 |
| benji | I can't speak much to Ruby or Rails, from what I've seen both are pretty immature | 22:24 |
| oferw | anybody knows if they going to translate this page to english ? http://www.zope.de/redaktion/dzug/tagung/sankt-augustin-2006/ | 22:24 |
| oferw | my german is still not good to read it :) | 22:24 |
| benji | and rails is really meant to be used for a specific flavor of app | 22:24 |
| gabrielboys | right, I have more personal experience with RoR, but it is still fairly new | 22:24 |
| gabrielboys | yeah I think that fits for this project, it is just a web app | 22:24 |
| gabrielboys | but... hence why I am researching | 22:24 |
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| gabrielboys | I guess what I am concerned about is spending a lot of time getting up and running with Zope3 and having it be overkill for what we need | 22:27 |
| benji | perhaps you could have a couple sprints, one to do a prototype in RoR and one in Z3 | 22:29 |
| benji | the main problem with that is that it's hard to tell if any issues you have are "real" or not, and if the ease/difficulty of getting started will continue for the entire project | 22:30 |
| benji | (I'm thinking about how easy it is to get started with PHP, but then a couple weeks later you want to kill yourself :) | 22:30 |
| gabrielboys | exactly | 22:30 |
| Theuni | oferw: there is a translation around | 22:30 |
| gabrielboys | I have done a fair amount of research on Zope3 | 22:30 |
| gabrielboys | and it is hard to tell exactly where I am in the learning process | 22:31 |
| gabrielboys | I like the ideas, seems like it is really cool once you get things going | 22:31 |
| benji | yep, there's a lot of good code/patterns in Z3 that apply to more than web apps | 22:31 |
| oferw | Theuni: can you give me the link? | 22:32 |
| Theuni | oferw: http://plone.org/events/community/plone-track-at-german-zope-usergroup-conference --- it's not exactly the same thing, but it describes the main issues | 22:32 |
| Theuni | oferw: see two lines above? | 22:33 |
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| oferw | Theuni: I saw that first before going to the gemran website | 22:34 |
| oferw | I saw it first on plone.org | 22:34 |
| Theuni | oh alright | 22:34 |
| Theuni | what else do you want to know? | 22:34 |
| Theuni | we're a german-speaking focussed usergroup, so the materials are almost completely exclusively in german :) | 22:34 |
| Theuni | Of course, english speaking visitors and speakers are welcome as well. :) | 22:35 |
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| oferw | I wish to be in the event | 22:35 |
| oferw | but for now I am staying here | 22:35 |
| oferw | so it seems that the only way is to impove my german | 22:36 |
| Theuni | where are you anyway? | 22:43 |
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| gabrielboys | benji: out of curiosity when you say code/patterns, is there a place to reference said patterns? Or is it more like just communal knowledge type of thing? | 22:48 |
| oferw | Theuni: israel | 22:52 |
| Theuni | ah | 22:52 |
| oferw | but no zope community here for now | 22:53 |
| benji | gabrielboys: unfortunately those things aren't written down in a central place | 22:53 |
| Theuni | know any good jiddish? that might work for a while in Germany :) | 22:53 |
| oferw | no :) | 22:54 |
| oferw | but I am trying to learn german for a while | 22:54 |
| oferw | not easy | 22:54 |
| Theuni | heh | 22:54 |
| Theuni | i know | 22:54 |
| Theuni | it's hard for germans as well | 22:54 |
| Theuni | not many perform good | 22:54 |
| oferw | also long words | 22:56 |
| Theuni | We have a recursive syntax for that! | 22:58 |
| oferw | what you mean | 22:59 |
| Theuni | We have a syntax that allows you to recursively buidl those long words. You can always take to nouns and join them to a new one. | 23:01 |
| Theuni | ad infinitum | 23:01 |
| Theuni | s/to nouns/two nouns/ | 23:01 |
| oferw | ok | 23:01 |
| Theuni | ;) | 23:02 |
| oferw | still need to practice | 23:02 |
| oferw | and learn words | 23:02 |
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| Theuni | benji: nice to see the real-browser-branch coming along | 23:11 |
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| benji | yeah, Theuni, I wish I had more time for it | 23:16 |
| Theuni | just a short question: are you adding tests along the way? i noticed a fairly deep change in the main loop adding a new argument, but saw no test for it ... | 23:18 |
| Theuni | I know it's a working branch, I just am afraid I would forget about asking that question later :) | 23:18 |
| gabrielboys | benji: Thanks for all the input | 23:19 |
| gabrielboys | benji: I really appreciate it | 23:20 |
| benji | glad to help | 23:20 |
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| benji | Theuni: It's pretty much a prototype at the moment, but I have been testing what would be good to test, I'll probably start a fresh branch next time I work on it because I think I've shaken most of the details out | 23:50 |
| Theuni | ah alright | 23:50 |
| * Theuni shuts up | 23:50 | |
| benji | it would be nice to add that argument to `run`, but it turns out I won't need it, I think I have a better way to work things than starting a new server | 23:51 |
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