IRC log of #zope3-dev for Wednesday, 2006-08-23

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mgedminlaptop batteries are a complete mystery to me00:06
mgedminI used to cycle the battery (make sure it is almost empty before recharging) onb my t23 -- the battery almost died in a year00:06
mgedminI bought another one and started to keep it plugged into AC power as much as possible00:07
mgedminthat one lived longer00:07
mgedminthen I bought another laptop00:07
mgedminand used the same strategy (always on AC, if possible)00:07
mgedminafter a year or more I have about 75% capacity left00:07
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* philiKON checks Capacity Meter00:09
philiKONsays i have 86% capacity left00:09
philiKONmy PB is 2 years and 2 months old00:09
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Theunina dann mach ich mich mal auf den weg00:34
philiKONTheuni, wohin?00:36
* benji suspects that's the longest sentence possible in German with no five or more character words00:36
philiKONich gehe nach hause, weil es schon spaet ist und ich muede bin.00:40
philiKONthere. longer :)00:40
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benji"muede" hat f?nf Buchstaben00:46
philiKONwell, not if spelled properly00:46
philiKONyou can omit the 'e' :)00:47
benjiheh :)00:47
benjihmm, I'd always seen it with the "e"00:47
philiKONbut hey, max(len(english_sentence.split())) < 5 is hard too00:48
philiKONfor longer sentences00:48
philiKONbenji, yeah, well, you can omit the 'e' in colloquial german. and this is what Theuni was writing in the first place00:49
benjiit's time for me to go to home to see my wife and son who love to eat meat and sit on the sofa with our large cat...00:49
benji... I'll stop now :)00:49
philiKONit's 5 characters :)00:50
benjimy German is so poor I couldn't tell colloquial from Dutch00:51
philiKONi tried to reproduce that sofa sentence in german w/o 5 letter words00:51
philiKONit's hard00:51
philiKONso, yes, english is shorter there00:52
philiKONbut just because it's that stupid rap form of german ;)00:52
philiKONthose anglo-saxon gangsters took it to the island and ruined it ;)00:52
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philiKONwell, and then a few hundred years later, they again took it further west to ruin it even more00:57
philiKONand now y'all end up with stuff like dat00:58
benjiI blame the Frech00:58
benjiI blame the FreNch00:58
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febbHola !!!03:27
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mgedminI have a philosophical question:15:13
mgedminis it acceptable for an INameChooser adapter to modify the object for which it is choosing a name?15:13
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mgedminphiliKON: thanks15:18
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srichterI have a tricky question: What would you expect the answer to be?22:18
srichterclass IFoo(Interface):22:18
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srichter  title = zope.schema.TextLine(...)22:18
srichterclass IBar(IFoo):22:18
srichter  pass22:18
rockyit *should* be IBar22:19
rockyat least i think so22:19
srichterdeeed. wrong answer22:19
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srichterthat's what I would expect too, but it is not what happens22:19
srichterJ1m: alecm: benji: mkerrin: nathany: what would *you* expect?22:20
nathanysrichter: i would expect to get back IBar as well22:21
srichterthe problem becomes really bad in formlib, where adaptation of field.interface on the context is used to get to data22:21
benjiI've not used that interface api enough to have a well reasoned expectation, but /I/ would expect it to return the interface the attribute was defined on; i.e., IFoo22:21
alecmYeah that would be my expectation as well22:21
alecmmeaning IBar, that is22:22
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benjiso it would appear that, as is often the case, I'm unusual in my expectations :)22:23
srichterbenji: I think this is the rationale, but from the answers here I suspect it is a bad one and it really breaks formlib badly22:23
srichterbenji: can you ask Jim quickly what he thinks should happen and why? :-)22:24
J1mI expect IFoo22:24
srichterhe he22:24
J1mBit IAttribute is not very clear.22:24
benjiJ1m tells me that he would expect IFoo22:24
srichterJ1m: I thought you would think this way22:25
J1mI think IAttribute is tring to say that interface gives the interface that the attribute was defined in.22:25
benjiwhy would you ask the (implied) question, anyway, srichter?22:25
benji(ask it of the interface, that is)22:26
srichterthat makes field.interface(context) call very brittle22:26
J1mHe wantd to know what we expected.22:26
srichterbecause I might have an adapter for IBar(context), but not IFoo(context)22:26
benjiJ1m says that I'm much smarter than he is.22:26
J1msrichter: so don't do that.22:26
srichterJ1m: but it is the standard procedure in setUpWidgets of formlib22:26
srichternot my code ;-)22:26
J1mbenji says that I can have a pony.22:26
srichterand I bet is broken in the same way as well22:27
benjithis sounds like a bug in formlib (et al.)22:27
alecmI would expect 'interface' to behave similarly to 'im_class', which would return IBar.  Could it be harmful if that were the case?22:27
* srichter tends to agree with alecm22:28
J1mI don't really know what the intent of the interface attribute is anymore.22:28
J1mI would need to study it's existing usage.22:28
J1mWhich I don't have time to do atm.22:28
srichterright, I did not intend to have you check it out right now22:29
srichterI was just hoping someone would remember the intent22:29
benjialecm: if the answer were IBar, then it seems like a useless question,  IX['foo'].interface would always equal IX22:29
srichterbenji: but what if the iface info is not around anymore, like in the setUpWidgets case22:30
alecmone could say the same of im_class then, there are likely to be cases where you have a set of fields and don't know what interfaces they came from22:30
benjithen it would seem to be a design issue, the component that was passed the attribute really wanted the interface and attribute name, instead22:30
benjilike I said, I'm talking out of my (non-existant) hat here, so I wouldn't put too much energy into arguing with me22:31
J1mwhere is this used in formlib?22:32
* srichter is tempted to change the behavior and see if any tests break22:32
srichterJ1m:, line 22822:32
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srichterbtw, if we come to a conclusion on the issue, I would have time to work on this, because otherwise I have to throw away one day of work ;-)22:35
J1mah, I see.  That seems to be the intent.  That code definately expects IBar.22:35
febbhi all22:35
srichterok, I am glad we agree here22:35
J1mI'm not sure we agree.22:35
J1mYou and that line of code agree. :)22:35
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srichterhe he22:36
* benji agrees with his glass of water22:36
srichterJ1m: if you think the current zope.interface package behavior is correct, I would be willing to fix formlib22:37
J1mI don't have an opinion one way or another.22:38
* srichter thinks that's about the worst case scenario answer; he like Jim being strongly opinionated22:38
srichterJ1m: I could try to change the zope.interface behavior in a branch and see happens22:40
srichter(I would just need a resolution fairly soon, as in the next 24 hours)22:41
srichterI'll send a mail to the list22:41
J1mIt's not a small change.22:43
srichterI realize that22:43
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J1mI can't give you an answer that soon.22:44
srichterbut either zope.interface or zope.formlib is as seriously broken right now22:44
srichterif the branch works out, I might be able to work on that22:44
J1mIt would certianly be a reasonable experiment to try it on a branch.22:44
* srichter notes that we should chear on mkerrin for checking in a new WebDAV implementation for Zope 322:46
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srichtergo mkerrin!22:47
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edgordoncan vocabularies be changed, or are they immutable once a module is loaded?22:56
srichteredgordon: depends on your implementation; I regularly develop vocabularies that live in the ZODB and manage the values there. Other vocabularies depend on context and the component registry22:58
edgordonyeah, i wanna grab mine via a sqlos class. that would be valid then?23:00
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srichterJ1m: okay, I changed my mind for now :-); I am going to fix up formlib for now, since zope.interface needs more collective brain power23:02
J1mThe way to do it is to record the iface used in the formfield.23:03
J1mimo and in benji's23:03
srichterthat was my idea as well23:03
srichterok, I am glad we are at least 3 agreeing23:03
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k0si just svn co'ed Zope3/trunk; ran make; and make run; and i get several such warnings: '2006-08-23T16:18:50 WARNING ZEO.zrpc (10620) CW: error connecting to ('localhost', 8100): ECONNREFUSED'23:17
k0si tried to follow doc/INSTALL.txt, but don't understand this error23:18
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febbhi philiKON23:21
febbhow are you ?23:21
philiKONgood, thanks23:22
febbgreat.  we finally have all ready for Copenhagen.23:24
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philiKONlooking forward to it23:28
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febbyeah, we are also looking forward to it. how many ppl are attending , you know already?23:32
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febbgreat.    Got to go now, talk to you later.  Un saludo !23:50
febblater all.23:50

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