IRC log of #zope3-dev for Thursday, 2006-08-24

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srichterbenji: ok, fix is in00:21
srichterdo you think it should be backported?00:22
benjiI think so, I don't think the current behavior could be what people really want00:23
srichterok, will do that later00:23
srichterI have to finish my client project00:23
philiKONif it's a bug, it should be backported00:23
philiKONall the way to 3.200:23
philiKONformlib is used in five now (which uses zope 3.2)00:23
* benji feels bad for continually forgetting 3.200:24
philiKONmost bugfixes don't even concern zope 2, but some do. i think this is one00:24
srichterphiliKON: one could look at the fix also as a feature correction, since the API changed00:25
srichterbut if people agree it si a bug, I'll backport it00:25
philiKONah, true00:25
srichterthe merge should be trivial00:25
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ChrisWhi all00:47
ChrisWif I've got a string in a piec of python code in Zope 2.9, how'd I i18n it with Zope 3's i18n stuff?00:48
philiKONprovide it's already an i18n message object00:48
ChrisWright, but where do I get the language from?00:48
ChrisWok, what if it's just a raw string? ;-)00:48
philiKONthen you need to explicit specify a domain00:48
philiKONyou can either specify a language00:49
philiKONor a 'context' that the language is taken from00:49
philiKONtypically that context is a request00:49
philiKON(the 'context' is adapted to IUserPreferredLanguages)00:49
philiKONwe have such adapters for the request00:49
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alecmphiliKON: Is overrides.zcml supposed to be loaded automatically when there's a *-configure.zcml slug in place?01:10
philiKONnot really01:10
philiKON-configure.zcml slugs usually just load a package's configure.zclm01:11
alecmso how does one trigger the overrides.zcml01:11
philiKONif you want a package's overrides.zcml to be loaded with all the other overrides, add an -overrides.zcml slug01:11
ChrisWit's Five magic ;-)01:11
alecm(Five currently isn't doing so for things outside of Products)01:11
ChrisWthis is all controlled in the sire.zcml that Five reads, no?01:11
philiKONat least zope 3's site.zcml honours *-overrides.zcml slugs01:12
alecmphiliKON: Ah will Five really load that, the site.zcml doesn't mention *-overrides.zcml01:12
philiKONlooks like five's site.zcml needs some enhancements :)01:12
philiKONJ1m, ayt?01:13
philiKONalecm, btw, in zoep 2.10+, site.zcml is also part of the instance skel now01:13
alecmphiliKON: great01:13
philiKON(just in case you want to fix zope2/five's site.zcml to be in sync with zope3's :))01:13
J1mphiliKON: yes01:14
* rocky remembers adding that and causing a minor fiasco :)01:14
alecmphiliKON: So foo-overrides.zcml should just have the usual <include package="foo" />?01:15
philiKONJ1m, remember how you told me i should get a debug-enabled python to check out that segfault in my __parent__-enabled branch of acquisition?01:15
philiKONJ1m, well, i did that and i still get a segfault and no clue01:15
philiKONalecm, <include package="foo" file="overrides.zcml" />01:15
J1mBut you probably get a segfault much sooner01:15
J1mwell, maybe you do01:16
alecmphiliKON: That makes a bit more sense01:16
philiKONJ1m, could be that i get it sooner, but id oubt it's *much* sooner01:16
J1mis this running tests?01:16
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J1manother thing you can do is set gc ro run all the time.01:16
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J1mUsing the gc option to the test runer01:16
J1m--gc 1 I think01:17
J1mThis might provide a clue01:17
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J1mIn a debug build, this could help a lot.01:17
J1mUnless it doesn't. ;)01:17
alecmphiliKON: I've found it's very easy to cause mysterious segfaults in code using Five by accidentally triggering an infinite recursion inside a view or adapter.01:17
philiKONJ1m, btw, what does the [N refs] mean at the end of a python session01:17
J1mThat's the total of all refcounts.01:18
philiKONuh huh01:18
philiKONnow running tests with:01:19
philiKONpython -vv --gc=101:19
algaI usually do ./ ...01:19
algasaves a couple of keystrokes :)01:19
philiKONalga, special python (debug-enabled)01:20
J1mphiliKON: Note that that will take a really long time.01:21
alecmphiliKON: So putting that in my foo-overrides.zcml slug and telling site.zcml to load *-overrides.zcml gives me a ConfigurationConflictError (which is what using overrides.zcml was supposed to avoid) ;-)01:22
philiKONJ1m, ah, good to know. coz right now it's just sitting there01:22
philiKONalecm, you need to load the *-overrides.zcml slugs with includeOverrides01:22
philiKONalecm, to actually make them overrides :)01:22
philiKONotherwise they would just be regular includes01:22
philiKONand indeed conflict01:22
alecmI had a suspicion that something like that was the case.  Auto-detecting the name overrides seemed a bit too magical for Zope 3. Thanks.01:24
philiKONboy, this is taking long01:26
* philiKON might fall asleep over it01:27
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J1mphiliKON: go to bet and hope it's done by morning01:33
philiKONthat's what i'm gonna do01:33
philiKONg'night everyone01:33
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newpersso, what is an object oriented db not good for?09:01
philiKONlots of relational data09:02
newperscan you give me an example09:03
newpersi'm kind of confused09:03
newpersthe reason i'm asking is because orm's suck.  and i'm trying to find a way to tie in django with zopedb.  i tried zope3 before, but i couldn't learn it fast enough09:03
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philiKONit's called zodb, btw09:05
newpersyeah, it's been a while09:05
newpersi have your book, btw09:05
philiKONexample for lots of relational data is logs, for example09:05
philiKONnewpers, zope 3 certainly takes you a bit to learn, but it also gives you a lot in return09:07
newpersok, thanks.  :)09:08
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*** philiKON changes topic to "logs available at || paste code examples into or || 3.3b2 is out || bug day live at"10:30
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efrerichphilBUG: I'am trying to create the test for 562. I get this error: "    PicklingError: Can't pickle <class 'zope.copypastemove.Testobj'>: attribute13:05
efrerichlookup zope.copypastemove.Testobj failed"13:05
efrerichTestobj has the attribute marker=FieldProperty(ITestobj['marker'])13:06
efrerichIn ITestobj I have marker = zope.schema.TextLine()13:06
efrerichphilBUG: Can you give me a hint?13:07
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efrerichI have put the whole testsession into zope3.pastebin13:18
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philiBUGefrerich, url?13:57
efrerich (see start message IRC)14:03
philiBUGposting the url of the paste is always nicer (
efrerichoh - yes14:05
philiBUGa few comments:14:05
philiBUGlist(container) is awkward. containers.keys() i think is a nicer spelling14:06
philiBUGalso, you seem to have inconsistent indention levels14:06
philiBUGuse 4 spaces14:06
philiBUGi would also suggest not putting this into a docstring14:06
philiBUGdocfile tests are nicer14:06
philiBUGalso, i dont' understand why the schema is needed14:07
philiBUGafaic, it's superfluous14:07
philiBUGit just distracts the reader14:07
philiBUGlooks good otherwise14:07
philiBUGof course, some comments will be needed :)14:07
philiBUGso, back to th problem14:07
philiBUGcan you paste your traceback as well, please14:08
efrerichphiliBUG: I should say I had the session in Python IDLE and with IDLE 8 spaces are default14:10
efrerichI had no error in error14:11
philiBUGi don't care what editor you use, but we use 4 spaces :)14:11
efrerichThe traceback follows in a moment14:11
philiBUGwhat do you mean you "had no error in error"?14:12
efrerichhad no error with IDLE - session log now in pastebin 77469914:16
philiBUGdude, urls...14:17
efrerichI'll chage the spaces14:17
efrerichchage > change14:17
philiBUGyou'll never get errors for bad coding style14:17
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philiBUGefrerich, right14:20
philiBUGefrerich, i know what the problem is14:20
philiBUGmake this test a docfile test14:21
philiBUGand use zope.testing.module.setUp(test, name='README.txt') or so to add the doctest as a module to sys.moduels14:21
philiBUGalternatively, just move your test fixtures out of the test14:25
philiBUGJ1m, ayt?14:31
philiBUGso, i ran the tests with gc=1 over night14:32
philiBUGno luck14:33
philiBUGsame segfault at the same test14:33
J1mdebugging memory problms is really hard.14:33
philiBUGi just noticed that some test in AccessControl is failing, though14:33
philiBUGso, apaprently, my branch changed something in acquisition that's not BBB-compatible14:33
philiBUGthe source of the problem might be there14:33
J1mI don't really have his much time right now.14:33
J1mthis much14:34
philiBUGjust wanted to let you know14:34
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rockyphiliBUG: is this just a zope3 bug day or zope2+zope3 ?15:07
philiBUGyou're welcome to fix zope 2 bugs too :)15:07
philiBUGespecially five ;)15:07
philiBUGunfortunately, i'm behind firewall for now. so no svn+ssh checkins for me15:07
philiBUGwill go home in a few hours, though15:08
philiBUGi'll be doing some five bug squashing tonight15:08
philiBUGfive and zope 2.1015:08
lurkerphiliBUG ... that means "he who loves bugs", right?15:08
* philiBUG is buggophile15:09
rockyphiliBUG: i'm asking because i was going to change the #plone topic to mention zope bug day15:09
philiBUGyeah, why not15:09
rockyso i should direct people here?15:09
philiBUGfine by me15:09
philiBUGhaving zop e2 bugs fixed can't hurt ;)15:09
* rocky decides he better get some coffee before he digs in15:10
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* rocky wishes zope3 was no longer trying to duplicate all of zope2 functionality15:28
regebroHiya all.15:29
philiBUGrocky, now where did you get that funny idea? my blog? ;)15:29
rockyheyo regebro15:29
* regebro is testing if Zope2 bug 2121 is fixed (think so).15:29
rockyphiliBUG: i confess i only perused your last blog entry ;)15:29
philiBUGwhich one?15:29
philiBUGthe kaboom?15:29
philiBUGcoz that's not the latest15:30
rockyi'm not sure ;)15:30
philiBUGregebro, i presume you're checking 2121 against the b2 tarball?15:32
* rocky is reminded how much he hates the zope bug collectors15:32
regebrophiliBUG: Yup.15:32
regebroIt works.15:32
rockyhm... ... is he indicating he'd like to add this as a zcml attribute on the page directive?15:34
rockyphiliBUG: none of your discussion on reworking the browser:page stuff got used right?15:35
philiBUGnot yet.15:35
rockyphiliBUG: nothing will make it into zope3.3 ?15:36
philiBUGrocky, no idea. this is a 'medium' issue15:36
philiBUGi'd focus on the 'critical' ones :)15:36
rockyok, how do i tell this stupid bug collector to only show me critical ones? :)15:36
rockykeep in mind that i'm a zope3 bugfix noob15:36
regebrorocky: The search in the bottom of the page.15:36
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rockyah that's, um... nevermind ;)15:37
philiBUGrocky, down below, select category: critical15:37
rocky14 critical bugs?15:38
philiBUGgreat, eh?15:38
regebrorocky: Yes, it's not user friendly. The question is: Should we put down effort on improving the bugtracker or should we put down effort in switching? :)15:38
philiBUGswitching. /me likes trac15:39
philiBUGwe don't always have to eat our own dogfood15:39
rockyin a pure python world, trac rules ... in a zope world, i believe Poi rules :)15:39
regebroHaven't used Poi, I think. Trac rocks. And sucks. At the same time. :)15:40
rockythere's a few easily fixable nuisances that would make Trac about 5x better imho15:40
rockywe should fork Trac to use all zope3 tech and then build a plone integration layer :)15:41
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philiBUGyeah, trac could use some reST support15:41
philiBUGits markup sucks for the most part15:42
rockyone of these days i intend on working with martin to zope3-ify Poi so it can be used on pure zope3 app server15:42
* philiBUG doesn't know Poi15:42
rockyPoi is the default bug tracker for products on
philiBUGi know15:43
philiBUGnever used it15:43
rockyany event15:43
rockyi wonder if faassen is still working on
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philiBUGrocky, he posted something on the dev mailinglist15:44
philiBUGrocky, read that thread15:44
philiBUGi think there are open questions15:44
rockyyeah but it was only about the logging of errors15:44
philiBUGwrong issue15:44
rockykind of spun off from the original bug issue15:44
philiBUGfeel free to work on it. ti deosnt' look like it's assigned15:45
regebroUhm.... 2168 is making me really confused.15:46
regebroIt claims that there is no import of "warnings" in Five.metaconfigure.py15:46
philiBUGwhy, what's wrong15:46
rockyi don't have the ability to assign a bug to myself, is that normal?15:47
rockyand is running dog-slow15:47
philiBUGregebro, yup15:47
philiBUGregebro, Five 1.5 (!)15:47
philiBUGthere isn't15:47
regebroIn my 1.5 there is...:)15:48
philiBUGsvn up15:48
philiBUGi fixed a bug, and introduced this new bug15:48
regebroAh, I have to step down into Five and make an explicit svn up there.15:49
philiBUGhuh, no15:49
philiBUGthe external should update15:49
philiBUGexternal points to 1.5 tag now15:49
regebroWeird, but OK, it's gone now anyway.15:50
philiBUGregebro, applied the patch?15:51
regebroNot yet. :)15:51
philiBUGah. didn't know what 'gone' meant15:52
regebroI ment that the import is gone. :)15:52
philiBUG(btw, this issue is assigned to me. you can take it, if you want, but you can also take another one )15:52
philiBUGfor example, i have one that's sorta your fault15:52
philiBUGin zope 3, when an object already provides IPublsihTraverse, it isn't adapted15:52
philiBUGzope 2 still adapts15:53
philiBUGso, the zpublisher should be made to check for IPublishTraverse on the object that's traversed first15:53
philiBUGsee zope.ap.publication.browser.BrowserPublication.getDefaultTraversal()15:54
faassensomeone say something to me?15:54
philiBUGfaassen, rocky15:54
rockyfaassen: i just added a comment to that content type bug you were looking at15:55
faassenrocky: right15:55
faassenrocky: I'm not wokring on this right now.15:55
faassenrocky: I got rather distracted by the weird intricacies of error reporting.15:55
faassenrocky: setting the content type would require a test.15:56
faassenrocky: and also would result in errors that you don't see on STDOUT at all, just in the error log.15:56
faassenrocky: right now you see at least *a* error there, albeit entirely the wrong error. :)15:56
faassenanyway, I think you're right in that we need to fix this by seting the Content type as suggested.15:57
faassenbut that would require an error we can reproduce in some test.15:57
faassenrocky: any idea how to make that work?15:57
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philiBUGperhaps the error reporting thing should be fixed first15:57
philiBUGisn't there an obvious way out of the error reporting madness?15:57
rockyfaassen: not yet, i was just about to look into it15:57
faassenphiliBUG: it's a larger functional change.15:57
rockyphiliBUG: perhaps, but that should be a new bug ;)15:57
faassenphiliBUG: and I don't know what I'd be breaking, see my message.15:57
faassenrocky: what I'll do is make a new bug out of my mail.15:58
faassenrocky: at leat then it won't be forgotten.15:58
rockyfaassen: good idea15:59
* rocky got derailed by a client for a sec16:00
faassenI've created a new issue for this.16:04
faassenperhaps it should be a proposal, actually.16:04
rockywell, i think the bug should be identified, but a proposal should probably be proposed to adequately address this ;)16:09
faassenyeah, I also made a proposal and mailed the list.16:10
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faassenrocky: anyway, feel free to look into the content-type issue.. if you want a sparring partner to work on writing an appropriate test for this let me know. :)16:12
rockyhehe, will do16:12
regebroI got derailed too and will continue fixing 2186 after lunch. See ya.16:12
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MJI get unittest test failures on python2.4.4c0, right?16:19
* MJ has a small one in
MJIt can be traced back to the python xml.sax.saxutils module16:20
MJIt quotes newlines and carriage returns in attributes correctly now.16:20
benjiMJ, it's a known bug16:23
benji(in Python)16:23
philiBUGyeah, 2.4.4c0 has a few bugs :)16:28
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* rocky gets back to bug fixing16:34
MJDunno if this is a bug or not; it looks intentional ;)16:41
MJentities.update({'\n': '&#10;', '\r': '&#13;', '\t':'&#9;'})16:41
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philiBUGfaassen, replied to your proposal17:00
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regebroUh, uhm, so the 1.5 tag is just a tag pointing to some revision in the trunk, right? So when I bugfix Five, I fix on trunk only, is that correct?17:04
regebrophiliBUG: ?17:07
philiBUGyou fix on trunk17:07
philiBUGand then i make a new five release tonight17:07
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philiBUGwhich will be included in zope 2.1017:08
philiBUGregebro, did you see the issue with IPublishTraverse?17:09
regebroYes, I'll try to make time to fix it.17:10
regebroHmmm. With Five trunk I now get an error:17:10
regebro Products.Five.tests.test_security.test_security_equivalence17:10
regebrogetRoles(dummy2, 'baz', dummy2.baz, ('Def',)) is ACCESS_PRIVATE17:11
regebrois False.17:11
regebroAnybody know anything about that?17:11
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philiBUGregebro, not really17:18
regebroI'm seeing of the same thing happens on zope trunk.17:19
philiBUGat least not with five 1.517:20
* philiBUG running tests again17:20
philiBUGRan 444 tests with 0 failures and 0 errors in 52.444 seconds.17:22
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philiBUGdo you get this after applying the patch?17:27
regebroNo, it's there before.17:27
regebroHmmm. It only happens if I have Five in /Products instead of lib/python/Products17:29
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regebrophiliBUG: In fact, it happens when I have a Five in both lib/python/Products and Products.17:31
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philiBUGregebro, same here17:35
philiBUGi have all combinations17:35
regebroCuriouser and curiouser.17:35
philiBUGtests pass17:35
philiBUGyou mus thave the pentium bug17:35
regebroIt's Cheshire bug.17:37
benjiis a Cheshire but similar to a heisenbug?17:41
* philiBUG likes ladybugs17:43
benjiare those bugs introduced by female programmers?17:44
whityou guys seeing wierdness with Five tests?17:45
whitI came across an interesting one last night17:46
whitif you run all tests for Zope, ZTC changes the name of the server, breaking about 10 tests in five17:46
philiBUGnever seen that17:46
philiBUGsure it's not an /etc/hosts issue?17:47
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whityeah, pretty sure17:47
whitthough I'm not sure why I would be the first to see it17:48
whitmaybe because putting tests in layers reordered when they are run?17:48
philiBUGah, this is with layers/17:49
* whit fixed it using layers too17:49
philiBUGah, so it happens with a vanilla zope checkout?17:49
benjiyes, the run order for tests before and after layerification will likely differ17:49
whitphiliBUG:  only once run order is changed17:50
philiBUGrun order?17:50
philiBUGso that ZTC tests come first?17:50
whitthe order the test run in?17:50
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whitphiliBUG:  actually thats wrong. the startServer call that changed the variable names was on import..17:51
whitbut no matter. not a zope3 bug17:52
* whit realizes he's not in #z3-base17:52
* philiBUG is confused... but it seems whit has solved the issue17:52
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rockysrichter: ohhh... so that's why you're so hard to get along with, because you're German?  *grin*19:26
MacYETevil germans19:29
rockyMacYET: are you coming to the plone conf? i'm gonna see if i can get beno to come to continue your mailing list discussion  =)19:30
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MacYETrocky: we won't pass the troll control at the airport19:32
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philiKONwho's behind the z3c package namespace again?20:16
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philiKONsrichter, who's behind the z3c package namespace again?20:17
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benjiphiliKON: "the zope 3 community", IIRC20:23
regebroOh, hi philiKON: I'm not able to reproduce the traversal bug.20:25
philiKONbenji, ah :)20:26
philiKONregebro, hmm20:27
philiKONi'll tell martin it's his fault20:27
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regebroHmm, I have a proposal: That we deprecate MailHost.simple_send().21:19
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regebroIt has almost exactly the same API as MailHost.send(), but no features. :)21:19
regebroHmm. I should probably ask that on #zope instead. ;)21:20
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srichterphiliKON: right, it is the Zope 3 community namespace21:21
philiKONuh huh21:21
philiKONi'll blatantly say i'm not a big fan of that acronym21:22
srichterit is intended to be a collection of packages that people want to share21:22
philiKONit looks a lot like zc21:22
philiKONand i wish we wouldn't emphasize the "3" in "zope 3" that much21:22
srichterit is enough different21:22
srichterbut it contains mainly Z3 specific stuff21:23
philiKONwho says i don't want to use z3c.traverser in zope 221:23
srichterviewlet entensions,. new menu implementations, JS widgets etc21:23
philiKONwidgets, menus and viewlets work in zope 221:23
srichterthat's ok21:23
srichterthat's cool21:23
philiKONit is :)21:24
srichterbtw, z3c.traverser is very useful ;-)21:24
philiKONit's not a big deal, just one of my constnat complaints (unifying the community, bla bla)21:24
srichterwe were looking for a short name and zc was obviously given away already :-)21:25
regebroOK, I'm all bugged out! See ya!21:26
srichterhe he21:26
philiKONregebro, thanks for your help21:26
regebrono pb21:26
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philiKONsrichter, how about we.traverser, we.viewlet, ... :)21:27
philiKONwe as in "we" :)21:27
* philiKON is half-kidding21:27
* benji dislikes the z3c prefix, but can't come up with anything better21:27
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mexiKONdamn wifi21:38
benji"zcomm" for Zope community21:39
benjilike I said, I can't come up with anything better21:39
benji"zz"?  (will terrably confuse my typing of "zc")21:40
mexiKONdid you guys get my "we" suggestino?21:40
mexiKONit was only half serious, but, hey, why not21:40
benjiyep, I like that better than "z3c"21:40
benji(we do have to worry about "claiming" some overly generic package name)21:40
benjiotherwise I'd like "z"21:40
mexiKONi wish zope 3's package namespace had been 'z'21:41
mgedmin"we.traverser" looks weird, that's why I suggested "our.traverser"21:41
mexiKONmgedmin, yeah, that's great21:41
mgedminI suppose people outside the z3 community would prefer "their.traverser"21:41
benjihas a nice ring to it21:41
mexiKONrofl, yeah21:41
MacYETmexiKON: already checked if you're elegible for a new mac battery?21:41
mexiKONMacYET, shrug21:41
mexiKONMacYET, where?21:41
MacYETsame issue as dell batteries21:42
mexiKONbenji, srichter, etc.:
mexiKONMacYET, looks like could get some new batteries of its own21:44
mexiKONit's dead slow here21:44
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benji"zorg" is a beautiful package name!22:02
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benjimexiKON: do you know who "owns" the "zorg" package space?22:05
mexiKONnot really22:05
mexiKONi guess it was meant for
benjithat seems like a great name for the community packages22:05
mexiKONtrue22:05 can always have zopeorg22:05
mexiKONor zorg.zopeorg22:05
mexiKONor whatever22:05
benjithe wider community has more need that just the project22:06
benjiI wonder what srichter thinks of the idea22:08
mgedmin"we are the zorg.  resistance is futile.  you will be assimilated"22:09
mgedminthat's a solution to the Python-has-too-many-web-frameworks problem22:10
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srichtermexiKON: blog: cool ... Reading now22:21
mexiKONphew, i'm all done with blogging for today22:28
mexiKON3 posts on 1 day, a personal record22:28
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srichterphiliKON: where is the third?22:33
philiKONit's all online22:33
srichterI see the 2 on Z3 Lab22:33
philiKONhmm, perhaps i haven't published them all22:33
philiKONnope they're all published22:34
srichterI really need to get ZSCP going22:34
srichterI have to make some time in September for that22:34
philiKON1. "But Zope 3 has no products!" Bzzzt. Wrong.22:34
philiKON2. Frederik Lundh is counting pages22:34
philiKON3. Guido and Linus22:34
srichterah ok22:35
srichtergot em22:35
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* srichter thinks also of starting a blog22:38
srichterphiliKON: do you know how many people read your entries?22:38
philiKONwell, it's on  planetzope, planet.plone, planet.python22:39
philiKONcould be a few22:39
philiKONmy blog is regularly part of the summaries22:39
srichteroh, right22:39
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srichterI see22:41
philiKONi'm sure the nuxeo guys will be happy to create a blog on z3lab for ya :)22:42
philiKONof course, there's always etc.22:42
philiKONand, wordpress is insanely easy to install22:42
philiKONand insanely insecure, probably ;)22:42
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srichteryeah, I think getting a place is easy22:43
srichterz3lab would be ok22:43
srichterI just need to decide whether I have enough time to write entries22:44
philiKONyeah. i don't blog very often, usually22:44
philiKONi still have lots of half finished articles22:44
philiKONi also tend to write more than i want to22:44
philiKONand wander off into other directions ;)22:44
philiKONi'm not the "quickly scribble something down" blogger22:44
srichteryeah, I would blog more about business and Zope 322:46
srichterI have gained a lot of experience in the last 6 months that I could communicate22:46
philiKONwould be great22:46
benjiphiliKON: I'd like him to count pages on my quick start guide, I suspect it'd be "1" (of course it's only like 4 pages printed out)22:46
philiKONbenji, yes!22:47
philiKONwell, it's frederik lundh... :)22:47
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benjisrichter: did you have an opinion about using "zorg" namespace instead of "z3c"?23:36
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srichterbenji: I dunno, I really like z3c23:43
srichterbenji: I think it would need to be brought up on zope3-dev23:43
srichterwe also have *a lot* of code depending on the namespace already23:43
srichterit would be a pain in the butt to find all places23:44
philiKON+1 to zorg23:46
benjisrichter: I'm probably not motivated enough to start a "zorg" campaign.23:46
benjibut perhaps philiKON is :)23:46
* philiKON hides23:46
* philiKON finds out that there are 3G adapters for ExpressCard/3423:49
* philiKON decides the macbook's dropping the pcmcia slot isnt' that bad at all23:49
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benjiok, I posted "z3c vs. the zorg" to zope3-dev and zope3-users; I'll wait and see.23:54
philiKONbenji, +1'ed23:57
* benji laughs hartily at "retarded 'z3' or 'zc'"23:58
* mgedmin remarks that if you use roman numerals, zc is z10023:59

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