IRC log of #zope3-dev for Wednesday, 2006-09-06

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philiKONTheuni, 'ussage' predates zope x3 3.000:05
Theuniso it can/should/must go away? :)00:09
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TheuniphiliKON: all tests run when removing that code (and the tests that within the page template package refer to it)00:22
Theuniyou want me to check that in?00:22
philiKONtrunk only though, to be safe00:23
Theunialso, some other small thing00:23
* philiKON wonders when he has become the checkin authority for zope 3 ;)00:23
Theuniin zope.component.globalregistry, pretty much the last 50 lines, there is a redefinition of the provide*-stuff going on that IMHO contains cruft00:23
TheuniphiliKON: you're aroudn and i wanted a second oppinion :)00:24
philiKONTheuni, oh, yeha00:24
philiKONthe provideUtility = base.registerUtility00:25
philiKON ones should go00:25
Theunii've removed the first assignments in my sandbox and the stuff keeps working (as expected). I didn't know whether any magic was going on there though00:25
Theunithought so00:26
* Theuni checks it in00:26
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Theunihm. that's something we can backport00:27
srichterI think there is also a BBB should go away in 3.3 part there00:31
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Theunisrichter: that's the _IGlobalSiteManager?00:34
Theuniah no00:34
Theunithat's due in february 0700:34
Theuninothing to remove in 3.3 i guess00:34
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srichterI can't remember where I saw it, but it was in zope.component00:56
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d2mis making pydoc work with zope3 a problem of zope or pydoc ? e.g. looking at zope.component in pydoc yields just a "zope.component = <module 'zope.component' from '/path/to/zope/component/__init__.pyc'" while other packages work just fine16:18
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philiKONd2m, i think it's because zope.component is a ModuleProxy16:20
philiKON(for deprecation)16:20
d2mi see, like zope.interface, which makes zope.contentprovider.interfaces show 'zope' as one of its modules ?16:24
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philiKONd2m, ?16:35
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jukartJ1m: I just checked out zc.recipe.zeoinstance and found that it needs some work, I would do it if that's ok for you16:51
d2mphiliKON: seems pydoc reports 'import zope.proxy' for example just as 'zope' in the Modules section16:51
J1mSure, what do you want to do to it?16:51
jukartactually I do not understand the part in _getdbconfig and would replace it with the code in zc.recipe.zopeinstance16:54
jukartand remove some unused code16:55
J1mI would rather not have you change code you don't understand. :)16:59
J1mEspecially since this recipe has no tests. :(16:59
J1m(I should have checked it into a development branch. I need to get in that habit. Bad me.)17:00
J1mBad bad me17:00
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jukartJ1m: right you are, after one more look at it I see what it is doing17:04
jukartI would like to remove the replace for the database name !17:05
J1mYou mean the bit that inserts "1"?17:07
benjiBad, bad Jim.17:07
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J1mwhy do you want to remove that?17:09
jukartI want to be able to define my own name there17:10
J1mSo then you're going to add a new option?17:13
jukartyep, or take it directly from the database section17:13
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J1mIt sure would be nice to have a test first. :/17:23
jukartwill do it before my checkin17:24
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j-wi'm trying to set a content-type of 'application/xhtml+xml' on the response.18:18
j-wbut zope.publisher.http then breaks with a ValueError18:18
j-wzope.publisher.http expects a content-type starting with 'text/' for texttual content.18:18
j-wam i doing something wrong here?18:19
j-w(mmm, i hope my explanation is not too vague..)18:19
philiKONit's a known "issue"18:22
romanofskij-w: maybe a the XUL bug in the bugtracker might help you18:22
philiKONwe're not sure yet whether it's a bug or a feature :)18:22
romanofskisearch for XUL18:22
philiKONj-w, basically, the zope.publisher automatically encodes your unicode to text, but only for text/* content types18:23
j-wa, I found it in the collector indeed18:23
j-wit is a bug BTW :)18:23
philiKONwell, is it allowed to say  Content-Type: applciation/xhtml+xml;charset=utf-8  ?18:24
philiKONif it's allowed, then it's a bug18:24
j-wwell, its is allowed to say application/xhtml+xml at least18:24
philiKONright. but the publsiher will encode with some encoding18:25
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philiKONand it needs to tell the client18:25
philiKONit is allowed to tell the client via text/*;charset=utf-818:25
philiKONi'm not sure whether the same holds true for application/*18:25
j-w(and I need that for the XForms extension of firefox to work correctly. That's why I found out. XUL could be similar indeed)18:25
j-wI have no idea18:26
j-wbut making it this restrictive is not really a solution, or is it?18:26
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j-wanyway, it is a known issue... uhm, no I wonder how to work arround it...18:27
mgedminare you talking about...18:27
romanofskihmmm don't know who told me about, but I thought the restriction is okey18:28
* mgedmin looks for the issue in the collector18:28
philiKONj-w, encode the unicode manually18:28
romanofskibecause encoding binary data to unicode would be stupid18:28
philiKONyou mean decoding18:28
philiKONbut this isn't about decoding18:28
j-wxhtml+xml isn't binary, is it18:28
philiKONit isn't18:28
mgedmin ?18:28
philiKONthe point really is about the ;charset=xxx addition18:29
romanofskioh - right...18:29
j-wphiliKON: ah, so, you can't just append the charset part to the mime type part18:29
philiKONi *think* that's what the reason was18:29
philiKONi mean18:29
philiKONapplication/octet-stream;charset=utf-8 makes no sense18:30
j-wno, I see that point18:30
j-wbut for XML it does, I guess18:30
philiKONsorta. xml has <?xml ?> declarations18:30
philiKONso, one could make the point that xml data should always be pre-encoded already to strings18:31
philiKONand carry <?xml ?> declarations accordingly18:31
philiKON(which is an application concern, not one of the publisher)18:31
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j-whuh, uhm, not sure if I follow that18:31
philiKONlet's say you have you xml unicode data in 'xmldata'18:32
philiKON>>> xmldata = u'...'18:32
philiKON>>> return '<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8" ?>\n' + xmldata.encode('utf-8')18:32
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philiKON"return" means "return to the zpublisher" here18:33
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j-wyes, I see18:33
philiKONbasically, the encoding information with XML is intrinsic to XML18:33
philiKONno header needed18:33
philiKONheader might even be superfluous18:33
j-wwell, how about the content-type meta element for html then?18:33
philiKONwhat about it?18:34
j-wyou don't need a content-type response header then as well, right?18:34
philiKONi'm not sure i'm following18:34
j-wwell, I'm not sure either...18:34
philiKONyou would do:18:34
* philiKON sketches out in editor18:34
j-wwhy would the content-type header on the response be superfluous?18:35
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j-wI mean, it declares what kinf of content you're publishing (apart from the encoding!)18:35
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j-wand whether the *encoding* in this case is the concern of the application, not the publisher for non-"text/" cases, well I dunno.18:37
j-wAh, yes I see the point in encoding it before returning. I can certainly do that in my case18:38
j-wit just *feels* a bit weird, because, intuitively, I'm still dealing with some kind of text format.18:39
philiKONi agree18:39
philiKONj-w, i think you should bring this on to the mailinglist18:39
philiKONon 1 hand, i can sympthize with you18:39
philiKONthe publsiher should take care of encoding issues18:39
philiKONotoh, it's xml data :)_18:39
philiKONxml has an intrinsic encoding info18:40
j-wafter talking to you, I have the same dillema.18:40
* mgedmin wants to stick his $0.02 here18:41
philiKONlet's see what people smarter than us have to say :)18:41
j-wbut it does make me *understand* the issue much better18:41
philiKONthere we go :)18:41
mgedminHTTP requires a stream of bytes; the publisher knows how to convert unicode to a stream of bytes for text/* and doesn't know how to do that for other content types18:41
mgedminviews can give a stream of bytes to the publisher and avoid the whole issue18:41
philiKONright, we were already that far :)18:42
philiKONthe question is if there's something sensible to do for XML data that's not of text/* content types18:42
mgedminprobably yes18:44
mgedminactual quotes from the relevant RFCs would be welcome in the collector18:44
philiKONi once looked for such quotes18:45
philiKONbut couldn't find any18:45
philiKONthen again, i'm not very proficient with all the HTTP RFCs18:45
BjornTphiliKON, mgedmin: is a good starting point. there are links to RFCs from there.18:48
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j-wif I understand the w3 document right, the charset parameter is STRONGLY recommend for application/xml18:54
j-wand application/xhtml+xml should follow the same rule18:55
j-wso, in that case we can resolve this issue18:55
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j-wand treat application/xml and application/xhtml+xml like we treat text/*18:55
j-w(but maybe I just didn't understand the w3 talk - this can happen ;)18:56
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* philiKON reads18:57
j-wand I think is about this particular issue18:57
j-w(but I'm not proficient reading RFCs too ;)18:58
BjornTj-w: right. the question is, though, who's responsible for adding the charset parameter? the publisher or the application code?18:58
philiKONthe publisher then18:58
philiKONif there's an RFC that lists all the applicable mime types18:58
j-wwell, why would there be a difference between text/* and applicaiotn/xml18:58
j-weither the publisher does for all18:58
j-wor for none18:58
philiKONfred's suggestion with zope.mimetype sounds interesting18:59
BjornTj-w: the rfc also says that you should includ the encoding in the xml document itself. if you don't encode it yourself, you don't know which encoding the publisher might choose.18:59
philiKONhmm. good point18:59
philiKONcatch 2218:59
j-wwell I do we knwo for text/* ?18:59
j-wI meant, *how* do we know for the case of text/* ?18:59
j-wcan't they be treated alike?18:59
j-wI guess I miss some detail here...19:00
BjornTj-w: for text/html you don't need to include the encoding in the document, the content-type's charset parameter is used.19:00
philiKON1. most text/* data does not have an intrinsic way of specifying the encoding19:01
philiKON2. even for some text/* types (such as text/html) you don't WANT to use <?xml ?> (quirks mode)19:01
philiKON3. for applciation/xml* the RFC suggests both19:01
philiKONbut the publisher can only set one (the content type info)19:01
mgedminby the way, even if you do include the encoding in the HTML document, the content-type can override it19:01
j-wBjornT: a, right, that's the thing I forgot19:02
rockyisn't the meta tags in an html document that could contain the content type and encoding meant to override whatever the server sends as the Content-Type header?19:02
mgedminrocky: no19:03
rockymgedmin: the other way around?19:03
mgedminthe server is allowed to do recoding on the fly19:03
mgedminso the <meta> element may have the wrong encoding, while the content-type is correct19:03
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j-whmmmm, i need to catch a train now :| i'll read the logs later. thanks for helping me getting this issue clear...19:04
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