IRC log of #zope3-dev for Thursday, 2006-09-07

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SmokeyDhi all. I see that when I use this in my zpt tal:content='python: "%s<br />%s"%(budgettype,periodname)' the <br /> is translated into &lt;br /&gt;01:05
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SmokeyDhow do I prevent this?01:05
rockySmokeyD: place "structure" in front of the python: part01:06
rockyso it would be like:  zpt tal:content='structure python: "%s<br />%s"%(budgettype,periodname)'01:06
SmokeyDok thanks01:06
SmokeyDPerfect! It works.01:06
rockygreat :)01:07
* rocky is on a role tonight... made one person happy with a quick answer in plone 5min earlier :)01:07
rocky#plone rather01:07
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dsh_could someone give me an start point for using sqlalchemy with Zope3? I don't want to integration like sqlos. I just neet to use it from my classes.11:08
philiKONdsh_, look at z3c.zalchemy in svn.zope.org11:11
dsh_hmmm, ""z3c.zalchemy" integrates the object relational mapper SQLAlchemy into Zope 3 as SQLOS integrates sqlobject."11:12
dsh_philiKON, thanks11:13
einsdsh_ keep in mind that you won't be able to have several sites with zalchemy though11:15
dsh_eins, is it impossible? why?11:16
einsthere's no way to have several sqlalchemy engines for one class, thats why11:17
einsyou bind one class to one engine11:18
dsh_eins, I see. Actually I just need to use postgresql from my zope3's app. Could you advice me the best method for it?11:19
einsi can't. we are using our own o-r mapper11:19
dsh_I just need to execute my sql query and get the result.11:20
dsh_is it possible to use psycopg2?11:20
kobolddsh_: you can use pyscopgda.11:22
einsdsh_ I have no experience with postgresql11:23
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baijumWhich is better? 'from zope import interface' or 'from zope.interface import Interface'12:20
baijumwhen writing documentation12:21
philiKONwhatever you prefer12:21
baijumphiliKON: which is prefered in your book (sorry, I don't have your book)12:23
philiKONfrom zope.interface import Interface12:23
baijumwhat if the name is a builtin, eg:- from import isinstance12:24
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tlotzeNowadays, what is the recommended way to find out an object's parent and name? Should one go through zapi, or access ILocation's __parent__ and __name__ directly?12:27
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philiKONtlotze, zope.traversing.api.getParent12:29
tlotzeoh, something new every day ;o)12:29
tlotzeI mean, sth new to learn...12:29
philiKONzapi.getParent is zope.traversing.api.getParent12:30
philiKONsame with getName12:30
tlotzek, given this is the recommended way, what is evil about accessing __parent__ and __name__ directly even though they are part of an interface?12:30
philiKONno, i wouldn't consider that evil12:31
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tlotzeThen what is better about using the traversing api?12:31
philiKONmore indirection ;)12:31
philiKONthe traversing api makes things flexible when you don't have ILocations12:31
philiKONbut if you know already that you have an ILocation, don't bother with the traversing api12:32
tlotzeah, that last sentence makes it clear12:32
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rockygood morning13:40
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* baijum renamed 'Zope 3 Distilled' to 'Zope Guide',
philiKONbaijum, hmm. i think the name should at least contain a hint regarding the audience15:06
baijumyou mean either 'Zope Developer Guide' or 'Zope User Guide' ?15:07
philiKONwell, something along those lines15:07
philiKONwhy not Zope 3 Developer Guide?15:08
baijumi thought to add few chapter on Five, so droped 315:08
philiKONoh, that makes sense15:08
philiKONsure, drop the 315:08
philiKONbut be explicit that it's Zope 3 centric15:08
philiKONbaijum, so, perhaps we should combine your Zope Guide with the existing (Zope 2 based) ZopeDeveloperGuide?15:09
philiKONthere oculd be 3 parts:15:10
philiKON- common Zope 3 technology usable in both platforms15:10
philiKON- Zope 2 specifics15:10
philiKON- Zope 3 specifics15:10
baijumyes, we will do this, first I will complete 'Zope 3 specifics' part15:11
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philiKONbaijum, ok15:14
* baijum wonder whether this will be a competition for philiKON's book :)15:15
philiKONwell, writing an online guide is a lot of work15:16
philiKONbut it's not comparable with a 600 page book15:16
philiKONi've spent thousands of hours on this book. i recommend you don't do the same but enjoy life :)15:17
philiKONthat said, i think it's great to have free online docs for zope15:17
philiKONthey won't compete15:17
philiKONpeople will read the guide and see if they like zope15:17
philiKONif they do, they'll buy the book15:17
MJIn other words, Phillipp is saying "So it better be good" ;)15:18
philiKONwell, actually no15:18
philiKONthe guide is built by volunteer work15:18
* MJ is having you on.15:18
philiKONyou can't compare that to a professional book15:19
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philiKONflox, nice work on the cleanup16:50
floxphiliKON: thanks16:54
floxi wonder if i should do cleanup only on trunk...16:55
floxbecause i do not want totake risk to break somthing...16:55
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srichterflox: I was going to make that suggestion16:55
srichterflox: leave the 3.3 branch as it is; it's stable and jsut needs to get out of the door16:55
floxsrichter: ok. i will do non-essential things on trunk only.16:56
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philiKONflox, cleanup is never that essential. so yes, trunk is best17:02
tlotzeI just found that is, well, written a bit less straight-forward than it might be regarding interpretation of the view name. Anyone mind if I straighten it out on the trunk?17:05
philiKONtlotze, well, if the current test coverage is sufficient, it should be fine to refactor it. tests will ensure it still works as expected17:15
tlotzeI'll take a look17:16
philiKONof course, you can always ensure that the test coverage is sufficient by writing tests now, then refactor :)17:16
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srichterFielding dissertation: Section 6.3.4 REST Mismatches in HTTP -> Subsection Cookies17:20
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Theunihmm. can non-persistent components be registered as local utilities?17:27
Theunii don't care for it to have any persistent state ...17:27
philiKONbut if you register it with a persistent component registry, the comopnent will be pickled as part of the registry17:28
philiKONbetter to use something like z3c.baseregistry17:29
Theunihmm. not my use case though.17:31
Theuninot exactly17:31
Theunithanks anyway17:31
srichterTheuni: what is your use case?17:32
srichterTheuni: because z3c.baseregistry was specifically written to provide a solution to your question17:32
Theuniin general in my case this might be a persistent utility, i just need a demo utility that is not persistent for a while and just wanted to make sure it doesn't break in weird ways17:33
Theuniand out of curiosity17:33
srichteryeah, so that's what you want to do then :-)17:34
srichterregister the demo utility in a base registry and add it to your local site17:34
srichterwhenever you provide the local version, it will override the demo17:35
Theunii won't need that probably, because the demo won't be around for long, so i won't need that infrastructure for long17:35
Theunibut i know it's around now17:36
philiKONTheuni, if it's just for demo, just stick it in the global registry17:40
philiKONerr , not global17:40
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tlotzeMaking a deliberate error in my change to Adding doesn't break any tests.18:04
tlotzeLooks like there's some functional testing needed... not now.18:04
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faassenJ1m: when you develop recipes20:32
faassenJ1m: how do you test them during development?20:32
faassenJ1m: that is, how does buildout find them?20:32
faassenJ1m: I'm grasping for some patterns there.20:32
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Theunifaassen: recipes are eggs and - if i'm not mistaken - will be looked for via easy install20:33
faassenTheuni: where is easy install finding them during development?20:33
faassenthere must be some way J1m tested the 3 zope 3 eggs.20:34
Theunifor one at pypi, but if you set 'find-links' in the buildout, it will additionally use those pages as places to look out for20:34
faassenand then fixed bugs in possibly all of them.20:34
J1mfaassen: I always develop them as develop eggs.20:34
faassenJ1m: how do you pull them together?20:34
faassenJ1m: you have a directory with 3 develop eggs and such?20:34
J1mLook at zc.buildout.20:34
J1mIn buildout.cfg, I have a develop section that names my two egg directories, which have files.20:35
J1mThis causes them to be installed as develop eggs.20:35
faassenJ1m: okay, so when you developed the zope 3 eggs, you have a testing buildout somewhere?20:35
faassenJ1m: and you check out the 3 eggs into that testing directory?20:36
J1mJust a sec.20:36
faassenJ1m: sorry, you check out the 3 things from svn.20:36
faassenJ1m: and they have setup.py20:36
faassenJ1m: I meant to say.20:36
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faassenJ1m: they're not eggs yet, but they can be installed as develop eggs if you list them under the 'develop' section.20:37
faassenright, sorry, I just expressed myself badly.20:38
faassenjust grasping for patterns here, but I think I see now.20:38
J1mNow most of the zope 3 recipes don't have tests. :(20:38
J1mI should, for each of those projects have tests and a buildout that gives me a test script to run the tests.20:39
J1mThe filestorage recipe has some tests, but I ran those tests as part of the zc.sharing buildout.20:39
J1mI really should set up a separate buildout for it.20:39
J1mYou could write tests for recipes at two levels:20:40
J1m- Unit level tests are probably easier to write.  You provide a faux buildout and make sure that the recipe interacts with it in the right way.20:40
J1mBecause the interaction is very simple, this sort of tst is straightforward to write.20:41
faassenyou basically just need to provide some parts directory20:41
J1mI experiemented with this for the filestorage recipe tests.20:41
faassenand some options20:41
J1mMore or less.20:41
J1mUnfortunately, this sort of test has pretty much zero documentation value. :(20:42
J1mI consider the filestorage recipe tests to be a bit of a failure.20:42
J1mAlternatively, you can write tests that actually run buildout with the recipe.20:43
faassenand then verify whether stuff is actually there.20:43
faassenwhere you expect it to be.20:43
J1mThese tests, have more documentation value, but are much harder to write.20:43
faassenwhy are they much harder to write?20:43
J1mThe and tests illustrate this.20:44
J1m- You end up running programs and capturing output20:44
J1m- Depending on what you're writing, the output can have lots of random content that you have to filter out.20:45
J1m- You need lots of infrastructure, like faux index servers and such.20:45
faassenoh, right.20:45
J1mAlthough, I suppose that many recipes could be demonstrated in offline mode and avoid a lot of that.20:45
J1mzc.buildout.testintg has a lot of evolved infrastructure to support this.  It's not documented. It has what I needed to run the tests in zc.buildout.20:46
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J1mWe probably need something like this for people to use generally.  I'm not sure we have enough examples to know what that api should be.20:47
J1mRight now, it's a bit like the early versions of placeful setup. :)20:47
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J1mI guess soon I need to switch gears and start writing a lot more tests for the recipes I've put together, both to complete them and to refine some testing support infrastructure.20:48
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faassenJ1m: okay :)20:58
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