IRC log of #zope3-dev for Tuesday, 2006-09-26

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WebMavenDoes anyone have or know of an 'Event' content type for Zope3?03:24
WebMavenI'd rather reuse/extend one than invent one.03:25
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rom|aw /anick romanofski09:30
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romanofskimorjens :)09:32
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philiKONbaijum, i corrected/updated ProjectStatus a bit10:37
harobedphiliKON: I get your book, it's very good, I've read seven first chapter10:42
philiKONi'm glad you like it10:42
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harobedphiliKON: only few older10:42
harobedit's old, when you 're write it, zope 3.0 isn't exists, now the current version is 3.310:43
baijumphiliKON: ok, any other status required there?10:44
philiKONharobed, when i wrote it, zope 3.0 was almost ready. the book is about 3.0.10:44
philiKONharobed, many things in the book still apply to 3.310:44
philiKONfortunately, a new edition is on its way10:44
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harobedphiliKON: yes, I know, but at the beginning, you speak about zopeX310:49
harobedok, I understand, zopeX3 is the code name10:50
d2mharobed: zopeX3 has been released 2 years ago (, it was the first public release of the new branch10:52
philiKONit was X3 3.0, 3.1, 3.2, 3.310:54
philiKON'nuff said10:54
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roymFolks, In my doctest, I have declared an adapter for:13:21
roym   IAnnotatable->IWriteZopeDublinCore (ZDCAnnotatableAdapter)13:21
roymMyClass implements IAnnotatable.13:21
roymI have an instance myClass of class MyClass.13:21
roymHowever, IWriteZopeDublinCore(myClass) fails as follows:13:21
roym  TypeError: ('Could not adapt', <MyClass ...>, ...IWriteZopeDublinCore)13:22
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roymShouldn't this work?13:22
ChrisW_hey all, where can I find docs for the subscriber directive?13:22
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mgedminroym: in your doctest's setup, have you called13:32 followed by
mgedminChrisW: I usually give up looking for documentation and go read the sources instead :(13:33
ChrisWheh, the usual zope way ;-)13:33
ChrisWthe "for" parameter of the subcriber directive...13:33
mgedminit is convenient that the handlers of most zcml directives are named the same way as the directive itself13:33
ChrisWyeah, so I saw13:33
mgedminand with ctags its trivial to find the definition of a function by name13:34
ChrisWbut I couldn't really follow the code for the subscriber handler :-/13:34
mgedminalso, there usually are IFooDirective interfaces that describe the parameters for <foo>13:34
ChrisW      handler="pharos.subscribers.catalog"13:34
ChrisW      for="
ChrisW           twiddler.interfaces.ITwiddler"13:34
ChrisW      />13:34
ChrisW>>> from twiddler.interfaces import ITwiddler13:35
ChrisW>>> ITwiddler.implementedBy(app.test)13:35
ChrisW>>> ITwiddler.providedBy(app.test)13:35
ChrisW(yeah, i know, shoot me for pasting :-P)13:35
ChrisWbut, ObjectAddedEvents aren't getting to my susbcriber when i add in the ITwiddler to the "for" attribute13:35
ChrisWI'm wondering why not...13:35
mgedminI think you need to reverse the order13:37
mgedminfor="...ITwiddler ...IObjectAddedEvent"13:37
roymmgedmin: I have, but still no luck... is my basic assumption valid - ie: that the adapter machinery will keep looking thru base interfaces till it finds an adapter?13:37
ChrisWwhy does the order matter?13:37
* mgedmin blinks13:37
mgedminbecause the handler for IObjectMovedEvent dispatches on the tuple (object, event) rather than on the tuple (event, object)13:38
mgedminerr, s/IObjectMovedEvent/IObjectEvent/13:39
mgedminit's in zope.component.event: objectEventNotify13:39
ChrisWyeah, but Iwas talking about IObjectAddedEvent13:39
mgedminroym: sorry, I hadn't looked closely enough13:40
mgedminChrisW: IObjectAddedEvent is a subinterface of IObjectEvent13:40
mgedminroym: you declared that MyClass implements IAnnotatable; it's your responsibility to declare an adapter for it to IAnnotations13:40
mgedminroym: if you had declared that MyClass implements IAttributeAnnotatable, then you would get that adapter for free13:41
ChrisWhurm, I see no .event in zope.component13:41
ChrisWare these events different in Zope 2.9?13:41
mgedminz3 trunk?13:41
mgedminit used to live in
ChrisWyeha, but I'm using Zope 2.9 ;-)13:41
mgedmintry looking there13:41
ChrisWah, I'll ook there...13:41
ChrisWsee? this is my lack of understanding of the subscriber directive13:44
roymmgedmin: this is a tough one for me... putting  a breakpoint13:44
roymin the code, I see13:44
roym  (Pdb) zope.annotation.interfaces.IAttributeAnnotatable(self)13:44
roym  <MyClass object at 0xa7b046ac>13:44
roym  (Pdb) IAnnotatable(self)13:44
roym  <MyClass object at 0xa7b046ac>13:44
roymyet, IWriteZopeDublinCore(myClass) fails as shown above...13:46
ChrisWdoes ISubscriberDirective actually exist?13:46
mgedminoh, wait a second13:47
mgedminroym: you may have to provide the dublin code adapter too13:47
mgedminroym: zope.dublincore.testing.setUpDublinCore()13:48
mgedminChrisW: I don't know13:48
roymbut I already have:13:48
roym IAnnotatable->IWriteZopeDublinCore (ZDCAnnotatableAdapter)13:48
mgedminChrisW: yes, it exists: zope.component.zcml.ISubscriberDirective13:48
roymthis is from: list(gsm.registeredAdapters())13:49
mgedminoookay, I don't know, then13:49
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ChrisWthe dostring for ISubsriberDirective.for is pretty damn vague :-/13:51
philiKONChrisW, what's your problem?13:51
* ChrisW pokes Aiste: hey :-)13:52
ChrisWphiliKON: just trying to get my head round how event subscribers actually work13:52
AisteChrisW: hya13:52
philiKONChrisW, my book explains it13:52
ChrisWnot in much detail ;-)13:52
ChrisWmaybe the new revision, which we're all waiting for13:52
philiKONwhat's your question specifically?13:52
ChrisWthe subscriber directive isn;t even in the zcml reference13:52
ChrisWwell, it isn;t...13:53
philiKONi forgot it :)13:53
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ChrisWanyway, specific question: what really goes in the "for" parameter13:53
ChrisWhow many interfaces can you pass?13:53
ChrisWwhat roder do the yneed to be in?13:53
ChrisWwhat if an object implements more than one interface?13:54
philiKONdepends on what kind of event you're subscribing to13:54
ChrisWdo all subscribers for all interfaces get fired?13:54
philiKONChrisW, if you want, i can13:54
ChrisWright, so the event controls how many interfaces you can supply to the subscriber directive?13:54
philiKONforget that13:54
philiKONChrisW, no, not the event13:55
philiKONstandard event subscribers subscribe to the event type13:55
philiKONdef foo(event):13:55
philiKON    # called when an ITheEventType is sent13:55
ChrisWintersting, didn't know there was a decorator for it ;-)13:55
ChrisWanyway, that's beside the point here13:56
ChrisWit appears the originator of the event decides what the parameters are for the subscriber?13:56
philiKONsubscribers always just get the event13:57
philiKONwe have subscribers that dispatch events to other subscribers13:57
ChrisWthe code doesn't agree...13:57
philiKONlemme finish13:57
philiKONso, we have a subscriber for IObjectEvent13:57
philiKONthat dispatches from (event) to (object, event)13:58
philiKONthat way you can register object event subscribers for just IMyObject13:58
ChrisWTHAT isn't documented anywhere sensible :-(13:58
philiKONwell, my new book13:58
philiKONwell, also in the old book i believe13:58
ChrisWokay, but how come you can use a susbcribe directive to subscribe to (object,event)?13:58
philiKONwhy not?13:59
philiKON@adapter(IMyObject, IObjectAddedEvent)13:59
ChrisWsubscribe is a generic subcriber thing, right?13:59
philiKONdef onMyObjectAdded(obj, event)13:59
philiKON@adapter(IMyObject, IObjectAddedEvent)13:59
philiKONdef onMyObjectAdded(obj, event)13:59
philiKON    # foo13:59
philiKON<subscriber handler=".onMyObjectAdded" />13:59
ChrisWand you said you can only subscribe to the interface of the event13:59
philiKONi never said that14:00
ChrisWwell, the nwhat _can_ you subscribe to?14:00
philiKONany number of interfaces14:00
philiKONone, two, three :)14:00
ChrisW(and we're back again to what the "for" attribute actually means, and its suck lack of documentation :-P)14:00
ChrisWokay, btu what dispatches to those subscribers?14:00
philiKONsubscribers do :)14:01 ahs:14:01
ChrisWand how does the subscribe directive know to subscribe to those subscribers, rather than to the actual event service?14:01
philiKONdef objectEventNotify(event):14:02
philiKON    adapters = subscribers((event.object, event), None)14:02
philiKON    for adapter in adapters:14:02
philiKON        pass # getting them does the work14:02
philiKONso, objectEventNotify listens to all object events14:02
philiKONand dispatches to (obj, event)14:02
philiKONthere's no event service14:02
ChrisWall adapters now?14:02
philiKONsubscribers are special kind of adapter,s but the semantics are the same14:03
ChrisWso you cn register an adapter for a tuple of interfaces?14:04
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philiKONbut you have to make sure your subscriber is actually looked up that way14:04
philiKONnormally, only single-object subscribers are found14:04
philiKONand subscribers to (obj, IObjectModifiedEvent)14:05
philiKONand subscribers to (obj, IObjectEvent)14:05
philiKONif you want your subscriber to (IFrobnaz, Iwhatever) be found, you need to look it up :)14:05
philiKON(unless IWhatever is a subinterface of IObjectEvent and there's an event about IFrobnaz)14:05
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ChrisWI was asking a more generic question about adaptation ;-)14:06
ChrisWlast time I looked at adapting, you could only adapter one interface to another14:06
philiKONthat was about 4 years ago14:06
ChrisWso you're now saying you can adapt a tuple of interfaces to something?14:06
philiKONsure, that's how views work dude14:06
philiKONthey adapt (obj, request)14:07
philiKONgetMultiAdapter((obj, request), name="index.html")14:07
ChrisWwell, IObj,IRequest I;m guessing?14:07
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ChrisWaha, and now i know what MultiAdapters are...14:07
philiKONyou never adapt interfaces14:07
philiKONwell, you could14:07
philiKONbut it wouldn't make any sense14:07
ChrisWthey covered in your book's 1st edition?14:07
philiKONnot really14:08
ChrisWthat's what I thought14:08
ChrisW2nd ed?14:08
J1mphiliKON, I forgot about the windows release.14:08
philiKONChrisW, yes, 2nd edition covers them in detail14:08
philiKONbecause we do views with them now14:08
ChrisWneed to beat springer to get them to print it :-P14:09
J1mwhat's worse, my hard drive failed and it will take a lot of effort for me to make another one because I have to reinstall parallels and windows. :(14:09
philiKONChrisW, help them with the latex14:09
philiKONJ1m, :(14:09
J1mI really screwed up with my non-backup strategy. :(14:09
philiKONi actually have access to a windoze box currently, but no VC 6 or 7 or whatever14:10
J1mnot that fuunny.14:10
philiKONno, it's not14:10
ChrisWJ1m: anything particular needed to build the release?14:10
theuniJ1m: you need a visual studio 2003, right?14:10
J1mChrisW, see
theunii have a box set up with which i compiled zodb a few days ago14:11
theunithat should work with zope too, shouldn't it?14:11
J1mvc7I think14:11
J1mThe worst part for me will be setting up putty again.14:12
J1mwhat a cluster14:12
ChrisWah yes, putty voodoo :-D14:12
ChrisWmmm, want me to see if someone at RBS can build it?14:13
theuniChrisW: i think so. i think vc7 and 2003 are the same. 6 was the release before that which was used in the zope 2.7 days14:13
theuni(add IIRC to all of those statements)14:13
J1mIt needs to be tested too.14:13
ChrisWwhat do you mean by "tested"?14:13
J1mI tested what I built, but I fat-fingered what I built and tested the wrong release.14:13
J1mFollow the instructions in the link we provided.14:13
philiKONChrisW, instructions are given14:14
philiKONrun tests, make an instance, register as service, etc.14:14
ChrisWah, okay, that link gives the whole set of instructions?14:14
J1mUnfortunately, we could find a windows problem that forces us to remake the source release. :(14:14
philiKONChrisW, yes14:14
ChrisWk, I'll fire off an email and see if Dan bites...14:14
philiKONJ1m, we can cross taht bridge when we come to it...14:15
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ChrisWk, what tag should he build from?14:16
ChrisW(oh, anda quickie: can I define a marker interface in zcml? how do I assert that a class implements an interface in zcml?)14:19
philiKONno and no14:19
philiKONwhat you *can* say is:14:19
philiKON<class class="...">14:19
philiKON   <implements interface="...">14:19
ChrisWbut I still have to define that interface in a python file,right?14:20
rockyphiliKON: what's the diff between <five:implements> and that what you just displayed?14:20
TresEquisChrisW: depends14:21
philiKONrocky, none14:21
TresEquisI have written directives which synthesize interfaces on the fly14:21
philiKONfrom zope 2 interfaces ;)14:21
rockyphiliKON: then why hasn't five:implements been deprecated? :)14:21
TresEquisuserschema, too (from HTML forms / CSV files)14:22
philiKONrocky, sigh... :)14:22
ChrisWTresEquis: okay, but this is just a marker interface14:22
philiKONrocky, saw my recent blog entry?14:22
ChrisWI'm 90% done on a little how-to for event-based cataloging in Zope 214:22
philiKONrocky, recent as in this morning14:22
rockylol, maybe not... man i have like 15mil blog posts to read every day ;)14:22
ChrisWit's pretty easy, but being able to mark classes with a notional ICatalogAware would be nice ;-)14:22
philiKONChrisW, maker interfaces that are not importable from python have a problem14:22
rockyi'm downloading the 4 movies from the dzug thing now *hoping* i can find time to watch them14:22
philiKONChrisW, because they'd be pickled14:22
philiKONwhichi s currently not possible14:23
philiKONbut even if it'd be possible, you'd lose identify14:23
ChrisWyeah, okay, but do you see what I'm getting at?14:23
ChrisWzcml is supposed to mean "config in zcml"14:23
philiKONi wish it just said "register" :)14:24
ChrisWbuit what you're saying is that I have to define my interface in a python file? okay, that's fine, annoying, but fine14:24
philiKONyes. and that's not even a zcml thing14:24
philiKONas said, it has to do with object identify14:24
philiKONwhich you really want14:24
ChrisWbut now I can't assert that a class implements that interface without dropping to python?!14:24
philiKONespecially w/ interfaces14:24
philiKONChrisW, sure14:25
philiKONChrisW, you can14:25
philiKONi just told you14:25
ChrisW<class ..?14:25
philiKON(my book)14:25
ChrisWI am14:25
ChrisWRMFB :-P ;-)14:25
TresEquisphiliKON: "importable" doesn't mean "defined via a class statement"14:25
ChrisWokay, it is a shame you can't define marker interfaces in zcml though...14:25
ChrisW<zope:interface>ICatalogAware</zope:interface> ...would be nice14:26
TresEquisChrisW: write such a directive, then ;)14:26
philiKONTresEquis, correct14:26
rockywe could always use more zcml directives that create magical python classes *grin*14:27
TresEquisIt would need to be <interface name="some.dotted.path.ICatalogAware" />14:27
ChrisWTres: why can't we use the value?14:27
TresEquisrocky: interfaces arent classes ;)14:27
ChrisWxml allows values for a tag for a reason :-P14:27
TresEquisbecause ZCML is an attribute-based XML language14:27
TresEquisand we want to be "like" the other directives14:28
ChrisWie: sack o crud ;-)14:28
TresEquisTHe "correct" value for the element content would be a *description*14:28
rockyfor the record, it's easier to control what the type of something should be if it's an attribute than if it's the body of another tag from the perspective of XML schemas14:28
TresEquisBog forbid we actually document the intent of your marker14:29
philiKONyou can always say <directive>comment</directive> in zcml14:29
philiKON<adapter factory="...">text ignored here</adapter>14:29
TresEquisthe description could even get turned into the docstring of the synthesized interface14:30
TresEquishell, I wouldn't mind defining APIs that way ;)14:30
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* rocky replaces TresEquis' python interpreter with an interactive xml shell ;)14:31
TresEquis<interface name="">This is the Foo interface<method name="bar">Drink heavily<argument="pints"/></method></interface>14:31
ChrisWcool, right, zcml worhsiping over, it does actually work :-)14:31
TresEquisinterfaces are all declarative anyway14:32
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TresEquiszbir: howdy14:32
ChrisWwhere's the best place to put a how-to on simple, event-based cataloging in Zope 2?14:32
ChrisW('cuz this is pretty neat :-) )14:32
ChrisW  <class class="OFS.Image.File">14:33
ChrisW  <implements interface="pharos.subscribers.ICatalogAware"/>14:33
ChrisW  </class>14:33
mgedminyeah, and sometimes I think it is pretty evil14:34
mgedminwhen I have to repeat that in my tests' setUp14:35
TresEquiswhy would you?14:35
TresEquismoving it to ZCML makes it part of "site configuration", not unit testable14:35
zbirhey, TresEquis14:36
TresEquisif you're doing system tests, then of course you load the ZCML14:36
TresEquisHow's wikiland, Zac?14:36
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zbirTresEquis: good. wikiriffic.15:16
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roymmgedmin: if you're still there, I figured out why the15:41
roymIWriteZopeDublinCore adapter wasn't being picked up. It was registered15:41
roymok, but that entry was being clobbered by a later call to15:41
roymplacelessSetUp(). Thanks for your help.15:41
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theunitransaction.savepoint() does not add an _p_jar necessarily to objects that are new in a database?16:24
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J1mtheuni, of course not.17:02
theuniObviously I was still spoiled by subtransactions. :)17:03
J1mI doubt that the old transaction code would do that wither.17:03
J1mThat is up to the connection to do that.17:03
J1mCertainly, when you set a savepoint, the _p_jar will be set on any new objets saved.17:04
J1mBut not by the transaction code.17:04
theuniUmm. What's the exact difference to what I asked?17:04
J1mYou asked whether the transaction savepoint method added it.17:05
theuniUh. I meant to ask whether the mechanics of "making"  a savepoint will cause _p_jar to be set. :)17:05
J1mSetting a savepoint is a good way to set _p_jar, at least when only one database is involved.17:06
theuniFor some reason this didn't happen when I tried to do that for an object that I've put into a session that was just created in the same request.17:07
theuniI've worked around it by initializing the session one request earlier, but I consider that to be a nasty hack.17:07
J1msounds like it17:08
theuniAt least it sounds like you'd expect the _p_jar to be set after calling savepoint(), so I can check why it doesn't happen in this case.17:09
J1mOf course, this assumes that the object is reachable from an object that is already in the database.17:09
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theunii guess that it's not the case for the session in that moment17:10
ChrisWJ1m: unfortuantely Dan's not going to get a chance to look at that windows build this week, you still want me to ask if he can slotit in next week some time?17:18
J1mI dunno17:19
theuniWhy does z.a.session.session.Session.get() reimplement __getitem__() instead of just calling __getitem__() and catching a keyerror?17:23
ChrisWk, I'll tell him to hold fire, but just drop me an email if you want me to give him a poke later :-)17:23
theuniwould it be ok to refactor that?17:23
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theunihmm. looks like i made the savepoint() in the wrong place. after digging through it, i got it working ... Also the code duplication isn't a real code duplication. __getitem__ never throws a key error but creates its own default values.17:29
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whitis there a channel for lxml somewhere?18:04
romanofskiin doubt you can speak to faassen in #silva18:05
romanofskioh.. but he isn't there as well18:06
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philiKONwhit, you can ping thisfred or wimbou :)18:22
philiKONthey have within kicking range18:23
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whitah yes...danke philiKON18:23
philiKONkein problem18:23
nouriMartijn's ill today. He's not at the office18:26
nouridrop a mail: faassen@infrae.com18:26
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whitanybody maintain any paste skeletons for zope3 stuff?20:11
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