IRC log of #zope3-dev for Wednesday, 2006-11-29

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d2m -- looks like they are shipping since yesterday09:44
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philiKONd2m: ah, nice to know11:03
philiKONthanks ;)11:03
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faassenhey J1m15:07
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ignasfaassen: do you know if zc.table sort is preserving the order of the elements being sorted ? I mean if i'll pass a list of objects sorted by their let's say name, and sort the table by group, will people with the same group still be sorted by their name?15:18
faassenignas: I wouldn't know off the top of my head, but I believe that zc.table has something concerning multiple sort columns that does do that. don't know whether it preserves the order of what comes in after sorting. I would guess that would depend on the behavior of python's sort, which I think is stable after python 2.415:21
ignasis see, thank you15:22
faassenor perhaps even python 2.315:22
faassendon't know, but Tim Peters made it stable at some point. :)15:22
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ignasis the order of subscribers defined anywhere, or you can't rely on subscribers  being called in some particular order?18:56
ignaslike - the order they were registered in zcml18:56
mgedminit is a very very very good idea to not rely on any particular order18:57
ignasjust like i though, thank you18:57
ignasi have typed too many extra t's today already so i am saving on them now ;)18:58
ignasfaassen: ayt ?18:58
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faassenignas: yup.19:00
ignasfaassen: do you remember the local utility thing you did to make overriding person factory possible?19:00
faassenany problem with it?19:01
ignasignas: maybe you could tell me how it should be used, as i kind of need a custom person factory, yet as it is a subscriber creating a utility ...19:01
faassenlet me look at the code for a minute.19:01
faassenlooking it up.19:02
ignaseven if i'll add one more subscriber with "override=true" I still won't be sure whether my factory or the demographics.person factory was used19:02
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faassenah, because of subscriber order?19:04
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mgedminsurely you meant to say "I have yped oo many exra t's oday already so I am saving on hem now"?19:05
ignasno ha many!19:06
faassenignas: ack, so I guess the current use of override only works by accident.19:06
ignasno, not by accident, it works because the default person factory sets override to False for itself, and there is  only 1 other person factory19:07
faassenignas: well, if that were called *before* the one, is there anything preventing it except the accident?19:07
ignasyes, if you set override to False, and there already is another utility - you just skip the registration step19:08
faassenyes but is there anything preventing the override=True event to be called *after* the original event that sets up the original/19:09
* ignas confused19:09
faassenin the core of schooltool, there are 2 events setting up the person factory utility.19:09
faassenaah, right.19:10
faassenif the order were reversed, the first one wouldn't override the second one.19:10
faassenokay, then at least I wasn't that stupid. :)19:10
ignasyou can always admit that you did that intentionally :)19:11
faassenI figure I did think of that then.19:11
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faassenbut I'm not sure. :)19:11
faassenanyway, the whole story of that extendability of course doesn't work after you try extending it once or twice..19:12
faassenthere are a number of ways you could go around this.19:12
ignasi know, i'll add override2 :D19:13
ignasthat should keep it working19:13
faassenno, in your extension, you could make it hand-triggered.19:13
faassenI mean, imagine you have schooltool.19:13
faassenand you have installed a whole bundle of demographics packages.19:13
faassenone for US, one for NL, etc.19:13
faassenthen it's up to you to determine which one you want.19:13
faassenit cannot be done automatically by the events.19:13
faassenthough perhaps the scenario would be simply not to hook up their zcml.19:14
faassenanyway, one way you could do is by installing them all, and having a button somewhere to install the right one.19:14
faassenthat would trigger the utility registration.19:14
faassenso when you install schooltool, it would ask 'which demographics do you want to use' and gives you a list.19:14
faassenand you select the one.19:14
faassenthat is, that would happen after the schooltool root already exists.19:15
faassenthat's one way to do this kind of things. it makes for a nice installation user interface and configuration in the ZODB there.19:15
faassenthe alternative is only to hook up the events you want.19:15
faassenright now the schooltool core is installing the person factory.19:15
faassenin demographics.19:15
faassenperhaps it shouldn't be doing this. instead, that bit should move to an extension.19:15
faassenwhich you can then hook up with ZCML or not, what you want.19:15
faassenin your alternative extension you'd hook up your own event.19:16
faassensince they'd only be overriding the core, the current behavior would work.19:16
faassenso did you comprehend the two scenarios I sketched? one UI, one event based.19:16
ignasas for the UI based - the problem is that on debian questions are asked before ZODB even exists, before Zope CA gets set up too ... so i can't get a list of registered PersonFactories in there yet ...19:20
ignasi would like to either use ZCML directly for that ... i mean like you set the exact factory only once in some top level zcml file ...19:20
faassenthat's the second scenario.19:21
faassenyou'd split out the subscribers currently in the core into their own extension package.19:21
faassenand you'd not install this package and instead hook up your own.19:21
ignaswell, i dpn't need any subscribers - i'd make them identical utilities and you'd register only one of them19:22
ignasor named utilities, and you'd only set the name of the one you need ...19:22
faassenoh, you could make them global utilities too.19:22
faassenI don't know what you mean with identical utilities.19:22
faassenbut yeah, you could make this a global utility instead. the utility/subscriber stuff makes more sense for the catalog installation which has to be local.19:22
ignasi mean - factories in python code, but not register them in zcml19:22
faassenactually if you made them global utilities you can probably also make it work with ZCML overrides.19:23
ignasprobably yes ...19:23
ignasi'll see which way it works out best19:23
faassenI used the same pattern for this one, making it local.19:23
faassenbut this factory can of course be global just fine.19:23
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faassenespecially if you don't have ZODB-based configuration.19:24
faassenI could imagine after first logging into schooltool it'd ask you various things.19:24
faassenI thikn that would work with debian, it's you're not using debian's configuration machinery.19:24
faassenthe advantage would be it'd work outside debian too. :)19:24
faassenthe advantage of local subscribers for the factory is that you could have multiple schooltool roots installed into one zope 3 with different demographics setups. since you don't do this with schooltool (though I heard you might want to one day), it might not matter.19:25
faassenI mean, the advantage of local factories (installed by the subscribers)19:25
ignasi know19:26
ignaswith multiple schools in the same immage this would be better left to some UI for adding a new school object though ...19:26
faassenprobably. :)19:26
faassenthe subscribers are useful for utilities that are more or less plumbing, like the intids.19:27
faassenfor the catalog indexes and the factory, it's more configuration-driven what happens.19:27
faassenand that'd make more sense in some kind of setup screen somewhere, not with subscribers.19:27
faassenanyway, this is why they say pluggable APIs don't work unless you write a couple of example plugins first. :)19:28
faassenwe were veering back and forth on whether this needed to be pluggable or not back then.19:29
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ignasfaassen: one more question, it seems that in the transaction in which schooltool application is created and "notify(ObjectAddedEvent(app))" is signalled, person factory utility is not available yet ...19:39
ignasmaybe you know why ?19:39
faassenignas: possibly because your site is set up correctly yet?19:43
faassenignas: I mean, isn't set up correctly yet.19:43
faassenignas: otherwise I wouldn't know.19:43
ignasi see19:43
faassenignas: but you could try doing an experimental getSite() in the code where it isn't there yet.19:43
faassenignas: and see what you get.19:43
ignasit makes Manager user the single one user that is not indexed by the catalog :)19:44
ignassuperman is invisible to your Catalog rays19:44
* faassen grins.19:44
faassenI remember having to struggle somewhat with schooltool's special setup procedure.19:44
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faassenanyway, I hope you can use sitonite to weaken superman. :)19:45
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ignasfaassen: found the problem, the site is not set in there so i must do it manually around the place where the manager user is created (like the code that set's up utilities does)19:54
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ignasfaassen: thanks for the tech support :)20:06
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faassenignas: no problem.20:18
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