IRC log of #zope3-dev for Monday, 2007-01-29

J1mjodok, yes00:01
jodokJ1m: we're working on performance tuning for z3 at the snow-sprint00:03
jodokJ1m: we're wondering what happend with ESI and zope...00:03
jodok(was it cancelled?)00:03
J1mWell, squid 3 was never released.00:03
J1mDespite paying for it, we've never been able to use it.00:04
J1mI've heard that other people are using it in production.00:04
jodokwhat are you guys using?00:04
J1mStraight squid00:04
J1mWe've been able to avoid the need for page assembly.00:05
J1mIt's a real shame though.00:05
jodokic. i've been chatting with one of the squid programmers earlier this day - it seems like they were pretty interested to get ESI finished00:05
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J1mGreat. I wish they would.00:05
jodokright now dobee and jukart are working on viewlet-caches and invalidation...00:06
jodokthis seems to speed up rendering dramatically00:06
J1mDoes that imply some sort of dependency model?00:06
dobeehi J1m, we define dependencies on interface and docid basis00:07
dobeeand invalidate on object events00:08
J1mThat's cool.  Is this pubically available anywhere?00:08
J1mThat's cool.  Is this publically available anywhere?00:08
dobeenot now, but this week00:09
jodok(nevertheless we'd also like to see this happen in front of zope with squid/ESI)00:09
J1msquid/ESI (or event client-side assembly) would make this a bit easier as there would be less to invalidate.00:11
jodokJ1m: there is one guy (adrian chadd) from squid that seems to be really interested in get esi fixed in squid300:12
J1mLike I said, I wish they would.  I wasn't even aware that it was broken with squid 3.00:13
jodokJ1m: do you remember what the main issues were?00:13
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J1mThe biggest issue was that squid 3 was never finished.00:13
J1mWe've had some stibility problems the few times we tried it and finally stopped beating our heads against a wall.00:14
jodokJ1m: sounds really promising :)00:14
J1mWe've decided to cut our losses.00:14
jodokadrian promised that lots of bugs have been fixed meanwhile...00:15
jodokbut you're right - it's beta since several years00:15
J1mHonestly, at this point, client side assembly makes a lot more sense in a lot os ways.00:15
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jhauserjodok have you looked at alternatives to squid?01:00
jhausersquid is a real big monster01:00
jodokjhauser: well - varnish sounds interesting01:00
jodokjhauser: we're using squid for a long time now01:01
jodoknow we'd like to have something ESI like01:01
jhauseryes varnish for caching and nginx for loadbalancing01:01
jhauserand apache replacement01:01
jhauserthese are smaller more fresh and more focused projects01:02
jodokjhauser: and what for ESI?01:02
jhauservarnish lists esi as the most requested feature01:02
jhauserbut varnish is really fresh :-)01:02
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jhauserwe use nginx in production for the moment as a pound replacement01:03
jodokjhauser: hmm ESI...01:04
jhauserwhat's the main bottleneck you want to use esi for01:07
jhauserdisplay of navigation or inclusion of more dynamic content01:08
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jodokjhauser: personalization01:13
jodokjhauser: having hundreds of parallel users01:13
jodokjhauser: having complex pages/viewlets to render01:13
jhauser_but you could only cache the boring parts, and need to render many parts of the page nevertheless01:15
jhauser_Hey I'm not against esi, but I wonder how much more complex everything else would be01:15
jhauser_the assembly of a complex page is in part the duty of the appserver and to transfer this more to the front would not make in less complex01:17
jodokjhauser_: well zope has it's problems when you are serving 60 mbit/s of dynamic data01:20
jhauser_yes :-)01:20
jodokjhauser_: we're working on snowsprint on this topic01:20
jodoki researched today and found no alternative to squid esi01:21
jodokjhauser_: mod_xslt and other apache modules are discontinued01:22
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jhauser_but zope can serve static content ten times faster01:22
jhauser_I mean, a simple page template which only assembles cached data01:23
jhauser_so I think application caching is very important01:23
jodokjhauser_: definitely01:24
jodokjhauser_: but nevertheless there are use cases when you don't want to use zope to assemble pages01:25
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jhauser_is esi somewhere specified?01:31
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softdevrhi, i'm looking at zcml and have seen the basics of a package's zcml configuration - but how is zcml used to configure an actual application? The ZCML equivalent of using the ZMI.02:19
softdevrSo creating instances of components within a zope app02:20
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CSWookieTheuni: You there?07:29
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TheuniCSWookie: here.09:44
CSWookieI committed what I think will fix the breakages in the ranking tests.  Could you give them a shot when you get a chance?09:50
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CSWookieTheuni: It may.12:00
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softdevrhi, can someone please point me in the right direction - I'm trying to work out how to register components within an app using ZCML13:55
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softdevrah, a package. Once I have a package configured in Zope3 I can use ZMI to create instances to create my actual app.  Can this second step also be done instead in ZCML and/or Python?14:04
srichternoone uses the ZMI to do anything, so yes it can be done in ZCML and Python14:05
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srichteryou should pcik up a book14:05
srichteralso there is: http://localhost:8080/++apidoc++ if you want to get a list of all directives14:05
srichter(you must have Zope 3 started in devmode (see zope.conf to turn it on)14:06
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softdevrthanks. The examples I can find on the web describe how to wire packages into the Zope3 framework, but I can't find one that then goes on to using ZCML to put together an app.14:13
d2msoftdevr: i know of the website app (available as download) -- maybe helpful for a start14:20
d2msoftdevr: i only has a little wiring, mostly usink a new skin on top of the rotterdam skin14:21
softdevrd2m: thanks, I'll take a look14:26
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softdevrhi, what is the svn url to check-out the packages I can view at svn co doesn't work, neither does svn://22:23
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softdevrjust downloading that, but that's going to just checkout zope?22:25
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d2msvn co svn://
softdevrthanks again22:32
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WebMavenDoes python:test(expr, val1, val2) not work anymore?23:36
WebMavenI've got this tal code:23:37
WebMavental:attributes="class python:test(True, 'here', default)"23:37
WebMavenand I get this error:23:37
WebMavenNameError: name 'test' is not defined23:38
WebMavenDoes this not work in Zope3?23:38
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WebMaventhis is wierd.23:52
WebMavenI can only find one spot in the Zope3 codebase that uses this feature.23:52
WebMavenBut I can't fand any mention of it being deprecated.23:54
WebMavenI mean, can't find.23:54
WebMavenJ1m: AYT?23:54
WebMavenJ1m: was  this TALES expression form deprecated?: "python:test(expr, val1, val2)"23:56
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