IRC log of #zope3-dev for Tuesday, 2007-01-30

WebMavenDoes anyone else know?00:01
*** philiKON_ has joined #zope3-dev00:05
*** jkakar has quit IRC00:06
WebMavenphiliKON_: Hi.00:06
WebMavenphiliKON_: do you know if  this TALES expression form was deprecated?: "python:test(expr, val1, val2)"00:06
philiKON_this is a zope2ism00:07
philiKON_that i personally never really liked00:07
philiKON_because it's actually python:test(val1, val2, val3)00:07
WebMavenOK, what's the Zope3 form?00:07
philiKON_standard python tertiary expression00:08
philiKON_expr and <true value> or <false value>00:09
*** philiKON_ is now known as philiKON00:09
*** philiKON has quit IRC00:14
*** philiKON_ has joined #zope3-dev00:15
WebMaventhere you are.00:15
*** jkakar has joined #zope3-dev00:15
WebMavennetwork problems?00:15
WebMavenphiliKON_: anyway, thanks for the solution. Another Zope2ism to unlearn!00:18
philiKON_J1m: ayt?00:30
*** yota has joined #zope3-dev00:35
*** b_52GM has joined #zope3-dev00:44
J1mphiliKON_, yes00:49
J1mWebMaven, yes00:50
J1mbut I need to leave soon.00:50
philiKON_J1m: never mind, see my email to zodb-dev00:50
WebMavenJ1m: thx, philiKON_ set me straight00:51
*** b_52Free has quit IRC00:51
*** opetznick has quit IRC00:54
*** ofer has quit IRC00:57
*** J1m has quit IRC00:58
WebMavenphiliKON_: I've got a decent handle on forms now (I think). I'm able to add an action to an edit form that redirects to a parent object, for example. But I can't seem to figure out how to remove the default add button. Any suggestions?01:09
WebMavenI mean, the default 'Appy' button.01:09
WebMavenDarn. 'Apply'01:09
philiKON_WebMaven: make a different action01:11
philiKON_def save(self, *kw)01:11
WebMaventhat's very similar to my current code.01:13
WebMavenwhich creates a new action.01:14
WebMavenbut doesn't remove the old one.01:14
*** schwendinger has quit IRC01:14
WebMaven@form.action(_("Apply and Return"))01:14
WebMavendef handle_edit_view_action(self, action, data):01:15
philiKON_hmm, weird, it should remove it01:15
philiKON_anyway, you can alos poke at self.actions01:15
WebMavenis the difference the use of _()01:15
WebMavenOK, I guess I'll continue poking around.01:18
philiKON__() is the message id01:19
*** schwendinger has joined #zope3-dev01:22
*** harobed has quit IRC01:23
WebMavenphiliKON_: Ah! I figured it out...01:24
philiKON_WebMaven: and...?01:25
WebMavenphiliKON_: I was copying the default actions for my form (and delegating the actual save)01:25
WebMavenby copying to default_actions instead of actions, the default button is not rendered01:25
* philiKON_ goes to bed01:26
WebMavenphiliKON_: guten nacht01:27
*** rmarianski has quit IRC01:33
*** yota has quit IRC01:38
*** jfroche__ has quit IRC01:49
*** andrew_m has quit IRC01:50
*** alga has quit IRC02:12
*** tarek__ has left #zope3-dev02:20
*** stub has joined #zope3-dev02:25
*** b_52Free has joined #zope3-dev02:50
*** b_52GM has quit IRC03:07
*** torkel_ has quit IRC03:13
*** rocky is now known as rocky|Zzz03:24
*** jinty has quit IRC03:29
*** \dev\sleep has joined #zope3-dev03:39
*** jodok has quit IRC03:44
*** jodok has joined #zope3-dev03:45
*** \dev\sleep has quit IRC03:54
*** jodok has quit IRC03:57
*** jodok has joined #zope3-dev03:58
*** jodok has quit IRC04:03
*** jodok has joined #zope3-dev04:05
*** natea has quit IRC04:06
WebMavenOk, I've got a 'breadcrumbs' viewlet that I want to appear only on certain objects, so I registered it for a marker interface.04:10
WebMavenBut now I want it to appear for certain add forms as well.04:10
WebMavenI tried marking the form as implementing the marker interface, but that seems to have no effect.04:11
WebMavenAnyone have suggestions?04:11
*** timte has quit IRC04:12
*** natea has joined #zope3-dev04:13
WebMavennatea: Hey.04:15
WebMavennatea: how did the calendar sprint go?04:16
*** jodok has quit IRC04:27
*** natea is now known as natea|zZz04:42
*** niemeyer_ has joined #zope3-dev04:50
*** schwendinger has quit IRC04:53
*** d2m has quit IRC05:00
*** niemeyer has quit IRC05:08
*** deo has quit IRC05:22
*** natea|zZz has quit IRC05:22
*** niemeyer_ is now known as niemeyer05:24
WebMavenniemeyer: Hi.05:33
*** reco has quit IRC05:35
*** Bhaskar has joined #zope3-dev05:40
*** reco has joined #zope3-dev06:07
*** baijum has joined #zope3-dev06:09
*** philiKON__ has joined #zope3-dev06:10
*** reco has quit IRC06:12
*** philiKON_ has quit IRC06:17
*** dobee has quit IRC06:19
*** Bhaskar has quit IRC06:31
*** Bhaskar has joined #zope3-dev06:46
*** Bhaskar has quit IRC07:17
*** Bhaskar has joined #zope3-dev07:19
*** yota has joined #zope3-dev07:26
*** whit has quit IRC07:55
*** povbot has joined #zope3-dev08:07
*** povbot` has quit IRC08:08
*** stu1 has joined #zope3-dev08:15
*** eins has joined #zope3-dev08:21
*** stub has quit IRC08:34
*** dunny has joined #zope3-dev09:02
*** andrew_m has joined #zope3-dev09:08
*** ignas has joined #zope3-dev09:09
*** dlk has joined #zope3-dev09:10
*** niemeyer_ has joined #zope3-dev09:43
*** niemeyer has quit IRC09:43
*** jfroche has joined #zope3-dev09:51
*** jfroche has quit IRC09:59
*** pelle_ has joined #zope3-dev10:09
*** yvl has joined #zope3-dev10:11
*** jfroche has joined #zope3-dev10:36
*** pelle__ has joined #zope3-dev10:37
*** pelle_ has quit IRC10:37
*** jkakar has quit IRC10:40
*** torkel_ has joined #Zope3-dev11:22
*** opetznick has joined #zope3-dev11:31
*** natea has joined #zope3-dev11:38
*** natea has quit IRC11:41
*** markus_ has joined #zope3-dev11:52
*** markus_ has left #zope3-dev11:52
*** natea has joined #zope3-dev11:55
*** schwendinger has joined #zope3-dev11:56
*** jinty has joined #zope3-dev12:01
*** dunny has quit IRC12:03
*** Bhaskar has quit IRC12:54
*** timte has joined #zope3-dev12:54
*** Bhaskar has joined #zope3-dev12:55
*** jodok has joined #zope3-dev13:01
*** strichter has joined #zope3-dev13:06
*** srichter has quit IRC13:08
*** reco has joined #zope3-dev13:08
*** b_52Free has quit IRC13:14
*** b_52Free has joined #zope3-dev13:15
*** Bhaskar has quit IRC13:19
*** mkerrin has joined #zope3-dev13:23
*** opetznick has quit IRC13:36
*** mkerrin has quit IRC13:39
*** dobee has joined #zope3-dev13:39
*** mkerrin has joined #zope3-dev13:39
*** rocky|Zzz is now known as rocky13:43
*** ignas has quit IRC13:57
*** Jell-O-Fishi has joined #zope3-dev14:00
Jell-O-Fishihi all14:00
Jell-O-Fishiis there a grid package similar to zc.table ? (row -> cell, cell-> field)14:00
*** opetznick has joined #zope3-dev14:06
*** stu1 is now known as stub14:14
*** naro has joined #zope3-dev14:16
*** waglik has joined #zope3-dev14:17
*** niemeyer_ has quit IRC14:19
*** niemeyer_ has joined #zope3-dev14:20
*** nathany has joined #zope3-dev14:26
waglikI have less technical and more philosophical :) question today14:43
waglikhow would you build a non-content application for zope?14:43
waglikfor example: a Financial reporting app or user manager for Oracle14:44
waglikright now I'm doing it mostly by constructing main app object (which I add to ZODB) containing all the app logic (database access, etc.)14:45
waglikand lots of views14:45
waglikis there a better / more proper way to do it?14:46
*** strichter is now known as srichter14:54
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o srichter14:54
*** pelle_ has joined #zope3-dev14:57
naroCan someone explain difference between and packages in SVN, please ?14:58
baijumnaro, 'zc' stands for 'Zope Corporation' and z3c for 'Zope 3 Communitty'15:02
narobaijum: thank you15:03
*** schwendinger has quit IRC15:05
*** J1m has joined #zope3-dev15:10
*** schwendinger has joined #zope3-dev15:13
*** pelle__ has quit IRC15:15
*** daniele has quit IRC15:16
*** mgedmin has joined #zope3-dev15:19
naro Is there another z3 libraries repository than cheeseshop, please ? I mean something like
wagliknaro: I think is one of the largest repositories15:26
narowaglik: yes, but I mean something more filtered :) thanks anyway15:27
*** nathany has quit IRC15:30
philiKON__naro: what do you mean filtered?15:32
*** eins has quit IRC15:32
narophiliKON__: contains a lot of producs, which someone tried to release or at least publish they exists. Collective SVN contains a lot of products, some of them are unusable, contains only one , two commits etc. I want to filter such products at least at the begining.15:36
naroI'd like to browse through products available for zope3 to get familiar with them, but I'm not sure if browsing through all products in SVN is the best way how to start with zope 3 product library.15:36
*** philiKON__ is now known as philiKON15:36
naroI can say I know Collective, because I live with it a long time15:36
philiKONare you a zope committer?15:36
philiKONbecome one15:36
philiKONthen you can add files to all packages in svn.zope.org15:37
philiKONand register them with the cheeseshop15:37
narook, but I must know them15:37
philiKONand voila, the cheeseshop is our product repository15:37
naroyes, agree15:37
naroI can't distinguish if product is good/bad maintained/unmaintained yet15:38
philiKONthat's something else15:39
philiKONthat's evaluation work15:39
mgedminwould be nice to have, though15:39
srichterright, I still have to finish my code to provide that site; darn, it becomes more necessary than ever now15:40
mgedminmaybe something community-driven (register, get login, rate from 0 to 5, write comments/review)15:40
mgedminmaybe a checklist of what a good product is supposed to have15:40
philiKONthere are trove identifiers for this, i believe15:40
srichternaro: There was a lengthy proposal about that about a year ago; search for Zoep Software Certification PRocess (ZSCP)15:40
philiKONmgedmin: do you know cheesecake?15:40
mgedmin(documentation,, unit tests, functional tests, website)15:40
mgedminphiliKON: heard about it, haven't used it15:40
philiKONsrichter: i'm not convinced another site will help15:40
mgedminonly people can help15:41
naroon I can see products, which are at least partly maintained. That's all. cheeseshop contains 21 products marked with zope3 label.15:42
philiKONthe cheeseshop also records Trove identifiers15:43
philiKONthe Development Status identifiers might be what you're lokoing for15:44
philiKONof course, people would have to fill those out15:44
philiKONhence, we need people15:44
naroin the other words. I want to know products which are available, because I want to start development of Zope3 application and I don't want to reinvent every piece of code.15:45
philiKONyes yes15:46
philiKONyou've said that 3 times now :)15:46 is my friend15:46
philiKONi'm just trying to encourage you to contribute15:46
philiKONit doesnt' have to be svn.zope.org15:46
philiKONthe cheeseshop can do a lot, we just have to provide the metadata15:47
naroas soon as I find some product useful and not in cheeseshop, I will come back with this topic :)15:48
* baijum agree with philiKON, see this page has more packages but only few are marked as "Production Stable"
*** lzdych has joined #zope3-dev15:52
*** baijum has quit IRC15:52
*** J1m has quit IRC15:54
*** J1m has joined #zope3-dev15:56
*** alga has joined #zope3-dev15:56
*** faassen has joined #zope3-dev15:57
*** SmokeyD has joined #zope3-dev16:05
*** torkel_ has quit IRC16:06
*** grahal has joined #zope3-dev16:06
*** opetznick_ has joined #zope3-dev16:06
*** b_52Free has quit IRC16:07
*** SmokeyD has left #zope3-dev16:07
*** opetznick has quit IRC16:07
*** b_52Free has joined #zope3-dev16:07
*** b_52GM has joined #zope3-dev16:12
*** zagy has quit IRC16:13
*** zagy has joined #zope3-dev16:14
*** jodok has quit IRC16:26
*** jodok has joined #zope3-dev16:27
*** jodok has quit IRC16:28
*** opetznick_ has quit IRC16:28
*** b_52Free has quit IRC16:29
*** opetznick has joined #zope3-dev16:31
*** jodok has joined #zope3-dev16:32
*** whit has joined #zope3-dev16:35
*** harobed has joined #zope3-dev16:37
*** d2m has joined #zope3-dev16:39
*** torkel_ has joined #Zope3-dev16:41
*** tonico|away is now known as tonico16:49
*** jodok has quit IRC16:59
*** jodok has joined #zope3-dev17:00
*** J1m has quit IRC17:09
*** natea_ has joined #zope3-dev17:10
*** J1m has joined #zope3-dev17:11
*** natea has quit IRC17:12
*** natea has joined #zope3-dev17:12
WebMavenphiliKON: did you see this module?:
philiKONWebMaven: the issue isn't with reloading itself17:13
philiKONthat works17:13
philiKONthe issue is with the zodb and its pickle cache17:13
philiKONi tried to explain this in the email17:15
philiKONi don't understand it completely myself thoug17:15
WebMavenwhat email?17:15
philiKONso perhaps i wasn't very good at the explanation part17:15
philiKONto grok-dev and zodb-dev17:15
philiKONWebMaven: or based on what were you showing me livecoding?17:15
WebMavenNot subscribed, I just saw your checkin.17:15
philiKONah, i see17:16
philiKONwell, the checking msg also points to that email17:16
philiKONeload actually works17:17
philiKONpersistent objects are just foobared17:17
WebMavenHah. I should have read the second checking message.17:17
WebMavenThe right person to answer that question would be Tim. Is he still at ZC?17:19
*** alecm has quit IRC17:19
philiKONWebMaven: i don't think so17:19
philiKONi don't think he's involved into zodb at all anymore17:19
philiKONi was hoping J1m would know more...17:20
WebMavenwho is the maintainer, then?17:20
philiKONor dieter17:20
philiKONJ1m is17:20
WebMavenDo you know if ZODB has cache invalidation tests?17:21
philiKONnope. haven't looked  yet17:21
*** ignas has joined #zope3-dev17:22
*** natea_ has quit IRC17:22
timteWhy is placeful authentication done both during traversal and after traversal?17:23
timteah, the objects are different17:26
*** niemeyer_ is now known as niemeyer17:31
WebMavenphiliKON: there are cache tests, but (and I could be wrong) it doesn't look like any of them test explicit cache invalidation:
J1mphiliKON, ?17:35
philiKONJ1m: seen my email to zodb-dev?17:35
*** b_52Free has joined #zope3-dev17:49
*** yvl has quit IRC17:49
J1mOK, I responded.17:55
J1mYou won't like it. :)17:56
*** WebMaven has quit IRC17:57
philiKONJ1m: ok17:58
*** WebMaven has joined #zope3-dev17:59
*** WebMaven has quit IRC18:00
*** WebMaven has joined #zope3-dev18:01
*** WebMaven has quit IRC18:01
*** tomus has joined #zope3-dev18:04
*** b_52GM has quit IRC18:06
*** tarek has joined #zope3-dev18:09
philiKONJ1m: thanks for the response. i just replied18:12
*** torkel_ has quit IRC18:15
*** dlk has left #zope3-dev18:17
*** ignas has quit IRC18:18
*** b_52Free has quit IRC18:23
*** b_52Free has joined #zope3-dev18:23
*** deo has joined #zope3-dev18:26
*** ksmith99 has joined #zope3-dev18:36
*** rocky is now known as rocky|away18:45
*** alecm has joined #zope3-dev18:55
*** __gotcha has joined #zope3-dev18:59
faassenphiliKON: making restarts faster is what I've been trying to do, but so far not much progress. it neeeds some profiling & analysis first I suspect.19:03
*** jkakar has joined #zope3-dev19:04
philiKONfaassen: well, making restarts faster is nice, but it's not exactly what i was after19:06
*** timte has quit IRC19:06
*** jkakar has quit IRC19:07
*** jkakar has joined #zope3-dev19:08
faassenphiliKON: what I mean is if we make those faster, we may accomplish some of the same goals of auto-refresh. something like turbogears has fast restarts and also auto-restarts.19:08
faassenphiliKON: you change some code, it just goes and restarts it for you.19:08
philiKONyes, i've been thinking about tha ttoo19:08
philiKONafter J1m last response, i think i'll look into that19:08
philiKONfaassen: it's a bit tricky since you'd like to keep the connection to the browser open19:09
faassenphiliKON: dunno.19:09
faassenphiliKON: why would you need to?19:09
faassenphiliKON: I mean,  stateless web and all.19:09
philiKONlet's say i'm developing an app and just changed something19:10
philiKONnow i go to back to the browser and hit refresh19:10
philiKONi then expect zope restarts itself and after having done so, it serves my browser with the new content19:11
faassenah, well, TG just tells me 'sorry, can't'19:11
faassenthat's nto a disaster.19:11
*** ofer has joined #zope3-dev19:11
faassenjust don't get a connection .it's clear enough what to do then. :)19:11
faassenyou just wait until the restart is really finished.19:11
*** timte has joined #zope3-dev19:12
faassenessential is that the restart time is so short there is just no wait.19:12
*** opetznick has quit IRC19:12
philiKONfaassen: ok19:12
philiKONfaassen: so when does it restart?19:12
philiKONthe first request after a modification?19:13
faassenphiliKON: no, right when you modify a file.19:13
faassenphiliKON: I mean, it's stupid and silly and it just might work. if you have a syntax error, it won't manage to restart.19:13
faassenphiliKON: it uses some file monitoring, I think they reuse something.19:13
philiKONi see19:13
faassenphiliKON: the idea is just that restarts are FAST19:13
philiKONbut still19:14
faassenphiliKON: Zope 3 restarts are decidedly non-fast.19:14
philiKONit sort of boils down to forcing me into a certain development model19:14
faassenphiliKON: you?19:14
philiKONe.g. saving when i think i got all the syntax errors taken care of19:14
philiKONbut sometimes i just save in the middle of something19:14
faassenphiliKON: well, no, I just save the same way as ever.19:14
*** whit has quit IRC19:14
faassenphiliKON: and sometimes a syntax error hits the thing and I have to press the up key and enter again.19:14
philiKONi gotta try out TG19:14
faassenphiliKON: it hasn't really bothered me a lot.19:14
philiKONi don't want to go the terminal19:14
philiKONthat's my goal19:15
faassenhm, okay, well, it's not my goal. :)19:15
faassenI need to go to the terminal for my debugging sessions, for instance.19:15
*** whit has joined #zope3-dev19:15
philiKONsure, but newbies don't usually use the pdb a lot19:15
faassensure, but they have to go the terminal to start up zope.19:15
faassenI mean, these are developers.19:16
philiKONsure, once19:16
*** opetznick has joined #zope3-dev19:16
faassenTG absolutely *sucks* in the amount of nasty debugging messages it spews out.19:16
faassen'print' debugging is almost useless.19:16
faassenI want my app server to be quiet on the terminal unless I ask it to speak :)19:16
philiKONsure sure19:17
*** harobed has quit IRC19:17
faassenanyway, that's an aside.19:17
faassenconcerning the syntax error stuff, all I can say that I haven't had a lot of frustration with it yet.19:17
faassenI mean, with some stuff you're just WTF??!! all the time.19:17
faassenbut not with this behavior. it feels fairly decent.19:17
*** torkel_ has joined #Zope3-dev19:18
*** tonico is now known as tonico|away19:18
philiKONfaassen: back to the discussion on #grok :)19:18
*** mgedmin has quit IRC19:26
*** WebMaven has joined #zope3-dev19:27
*** lzdych has quit IRC19:33
*** ksmith99 has quit IRC19:40
*** rocky|away is now known as rocky19:45
*** jfroche has quit IRC19:51
*** dunny has joined #zope3-dev20:00
*** ofer has quit IRC20:06
*** stub has quit IRC20:06
*** __gotcha has quit IRC20:09
d2mfaassen: on the Zope3 restart time - its about a second on my server20:12
philiKONd2m: well, yeah...20:12
philiKONhow often do you restart zope on your server?!?20:12
*** b_52GM has joined #zope3-dev20:13
d2msure, if you start a full bloated system (apidocs et al) it goes up to 4 secs20:13
philiKONno i mean, typically you want fast restarts on a dev machine20:13
philiKONfor all i care, restarts on a server could take half a minute20:13
philiKONbut for development i want something agile20:13
philiKONon my new laptop, it's 2 secs. if we could cut that in half, that'd be great20:14
*** ksmith99 has joined #zope3-dev20:16
d2mphiliKON: e.g. time the second and consecutive startup times on a minimal dev sytem - i'm under a second with a small dev system20:23
d2meg, i've apidocs running on a different wsgi server and port20:24
philiKONi can't get below 2 secs20:25
philiKONwith a fairly minimal instance20:25
philiKONcore2 duo, osx20:25
philiKONi think osx accoutns for some of the slowdown20:25
d2mapidoc takes about 50% of the time20:25
philiKONmy python on osx has fewer pystones than python on windows *in parallels* (e.g. virtualized)20:25
*** dunny has quit IRC20:26
*** b_52Free has quit IRC20:31
*** torkel_ has quit IRC20:32
*** waglik has quit IRC20:34
*** schwendinger has quit IRC20:37
*** waglik has joined #zope3-dev20:39
*** niemeyer_ has joined #zope3-dev20:43
*** mkerrin has quit IRC20:47
*** tarek has left #zope3-dev20:49
*** henri_ has joined #zope3-dev20:52
*** waglik has quit IRC20:53
*** pelle_ has quit IRC20:58
*** opetznick has quit IRC20:59
*** pelle_ has joined #zope3-dev21:02
*** niemeyer_ has quit IRC21:09
*** niemeyer has quit IRC21:09
*** niemeyer has joined #zope3-dev21:12
philiKONd2m: btw, a quick test here reveals that loading apidoc seems to make a difference of 15% in startup time, not anywhere near 100%21:14
*** niemeyer_ has joined #zope3-dev21:17
*** pelle_ has quit IRC21:30
*** niemeyer__ has joined #zope3-dev21:31
*** niemeyer has quit IRC21:33
*** alecm has quit IRC21:38
*** schwendinger has joined #zope3-dev21:43
*** niemeyer_ has quit IRC21:45
*** alecm has joined #zope3-dev21:50
*** faassen has quit IRC21:59
*** softdevr has joined #zope3-dev21:59
softdevrhi, anyone know of a doc explaining what the ZMI 'Make a site' link does?21:59
*** opetznick has joined #zope3-dev22:01
srichterwhy don't you just look up the code?22:01
*** ktwilight has joined #zope3-dev22:02 (, starting at line 11522:02
softdevrsrichter: where is the zmi app located in the installation?  I can trace code starting from there in the future22:08
srichtereverywhere in[modulename].browser22:08
srichtersomeof it is also directly in
srichterif I would not have guessed the the location of the code, I would have searched all ZCML files for the string "Make a site"22:09
srichterwhich gets you the menu entry, which points to the page directive, which points to the class22:10
srichterdarn, if I would have a full-text index in APIDOC, then you could do this there too22:10
softdevryeah, would be nice!22:11
softdevrthanks for the tip22:11
*** schwendinger has quit IRC22:11
zenwrylyis there a way to use a generator function (IE, using "yeild") as a zope.schema source?22:26
zenwrylyI'm a little unclear on when the generator function is called to return the generator object22:27
*** schwendinger has joined #zope3-dev22:36
*** opetznick_ has joined #zope3-dev22:42
*** opetznick has quit IRC22:42
*** henri_ has quit IRC22:44
*** __gotcha has joined #zope3-dev22:56
*** ofer has joined #zope3-dev23:05
*** naro has quit IRC23:17
*** ofer has quit IRC23:17
*** grahal has quit IRC23:33

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!