| WebMaven | Does anyone else know? | 00:01 |
|---|---|---|
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| WebMaven | philiKON_: Hi. | 00:06 |
| philiKON_ | hi | 00:06 |
| WebMaven | philiKON_: do you know if this TALES expression form was deprecated?: "python:test(expr, val1, val2)" | 00:06 |
| philiKON_ | this is a zope2ism | 00:07 |
| philiKON_ | that i personally never really liked | 00:07 |
| philiKON_ | because it's actually python:test(val1, val2, val3) | 00:07 |
| WebMaven | OK, what's the Zope3 form? | 00:07 |
| philiKON_ | standard python tertiary expression | 00:08 |
| philiKON_ | expr and <true value> or <false value> | 00:09 |
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| WebMaven | there you are. | 00:15 |
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| WebMaven | network problems? | 00:15 |
| WebMaven | philiKON_: anyway, thanks for the solution. Another Zope2ism to unlearn! | 00:18 |
| WebMaven | ;-) | 00:18 |
| philiKON_ | J1m: ayt? | 00:30 |
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| J1m | philiKON_, yes | 00:49 |
| J1m | WebMaven, yes | 00:50 |
| J1m | but I need to leave soon. | 00:50 |
| philiKON_ | J1m: never mind, see my email to zodb-dev | 00:50 |
| WebMaven | J1m: thx, philiKON_ set me straight | 00:51 |
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| WebMaven | philiKON_: I've got a decent handle on forms now (I think). I'm able to add an action to an edit form that redirects to a parent object, for example. But I can't seem to figure out how to remove the default add button. Any suggestions? | 01:09 |
| WebMaven | I mean, the default 'Appy' button. | 01:09 |
| WebMaven | Darn. 'Apply' | 01:09 |
| philiKON_ | WebMaven: make a different action | 01:11 |
| philiKON_ | @action('Save') | 01:11 |
| philiKON_ | def save(self, *kw) | 01:11 |
| philiKON_ | ... | 01:11 |
| WebMaven | Hmm. | 01:12 |
| WebMaven | that's very similar to my current code. | 01:13 |
| WebMaven | which creates a new action. | 01:14 |
| WebMaven | but doesn't remove the old one. | 01:14 |
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| WebMaven | @form.action(_("Apply and Return")) | 01:14 |
| WebMaven | def handle_edit_view_action(self, action, data): | 01:15 |
| WebMaven | ... | 01:15 |
| philiKON_ | hmm, weird, it should remove it | 01:15 |
| philiKON_ | anyway, you can alos poke at self.actions | 01:15 |
| WebMaven | is the difference the use of _() | 01:15 |
| WebMaven | ? | 01:17 |
| WebMaven | OK, I guess I'll continue poking around. | 01:18 |
| philiKON_ | _() is the message id | 01:19 |
| philiKON_ | factory | 01:20 |
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| WebMaven | philiKON_: Ah! I figured it out... | 01:24 |
| philiKON_ | WebMaven: and...? | 01:25 |
| WebMaven | philiKON_: I was copying the default actions for my form (and delegating the actual save) | 01:25 |
| WebMaven | by copying to default_actions instead of actions, the default button is not rendered | 01:25 |
| philiKON_ | cool | 01:26 |
| * philiKON_ goes to bed | 01:26 | |
| WebMaven | philiKON_: guten nacht | 01:27 |
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| WebMaven | Ok, I've got a 'breadcrumbs' viewlet that I want to appear only on certain objects, so I registered it for a marker interface. | 04:10 |
| WebMaven | But now I want it to appear for certain add forms as well. | 04:10 |
| WebMaven | I tried marking the form as implementing the marker interface, but that seems to have no effect. | 04:11 |
| WebMaven | Anyone have suggestions? | 04:11 |
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| WebMaven | natea: Hey. | 04:15 |
| WebMaven | natea: how did the calendar sprint go? | 04:16 |
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| WebMaven | niemeyer: Hi. | 05:33 |
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| Jell-O-Fishi | hi all | 14:00 |
| Jell-O-Fishi | is there a grid package similar to zc.table ? (row -> cell, cell-> field) | 14:00 |
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| waglik | hello! | 14:42 |
| waglik | I have less technical and more philosophical :) question today | 14:43 |
| waglik | how would you build a non-content application for zope? | 14:43 |
| waglik | for example: a Financial reporting app or user manager for Oracle | 14:44 |
| waglik | right now I'm doing it mostly by constructing main app object (which I add to ZODB) containing all the app logic (database access, etc.) | 14:45 |
| waglik | and lots of views | 14:45 |
| waglik | is there a better / more proper way to do it? | 14:46 |
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| naro | Can someone explain difference between zc.xxx and z3c.xxx packages in SVN, please ? | 14:58 |
| baijum | naro, 'zc' stands for 'Zope Corporation' and z3c for 'Zope 3 Communitty' | 15:02 |
| naro | baijum: thank you | 15:03 |
| baijum | welcome! | 15:03 |
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| naro | Is there another z3 libraries repository than cheeseshop, please ? I mean something like http://www.zope.org/Products | 15:23 |
| waglik | naro: I think svn.zope.org is one of the largest repositories | 15:26 |
| naro | waglik: yes, but I mean something more filtered :) thanks anyway | 15:27 |
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| philiKON__ | naro: what do you mean filtered? | 15:32 |
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| naro | philiKON__: plone.org/products contains a lot of producs, which someone tried to release or at least publish they exists. Collective SVN contains a lot of products, some of them are unusable, contains only one , two commits etc. I want to filter such products at least at the begining. | 15:36 |
| naro | I'd like to browse through products available for zope3 to get familiar with them, but I'm not sure if browsing through all products in SVN is the best way how to start with zope 3 product library. | 15:36 |
| philiKON__ | true | 15:36 |
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| naro | I can say I know Collective, because I live with it a long time | 15:36 |
| philiKON | are you a zope committer? | 15:36 |
| naro | no | 15:36 |
| philiKON | become one | 15:36 |
| philiKON | then you can add setup.py files to all packages in svn.zope.org | 15:37 |
| philiKON | and register them with the cheeseshop | 15:37 |
| naro | ok, but I must know them | 15:37 |
| philiKON | and voila, the cheeseshop is our product repository | 15:37 |
| philiKON | huh? | 15:37 |
| naro | yes, agree | 15:37 |
| naro | I can't distinguish if product is good/bad maintained/unmaintained yet | 15:38 |
| philiKON | that's something else | 15:39 |
| philiKON | that's evaluation work | 15:39 |
| naro | yep | 15:39 |
| mgedmin | would be nice to have, though | 15:39 |
| srichter | right, I still have to finish my code to provide that site; darn, it becomes more necessary than ever now | 15:40 |
| mgedmin | maybe something community-driven (register, get login, rate from 0 to 5, write comments/review) | 15:40 |
| mgedmin | maybe a checklist of what a good product is supposed to have | 15:40 |
| philiKON | there are trove identifiers for this, i believe | 15:40 |
| srichter | naro: There was a lengthy proposal about that about a year ago; search for Zoep Software Certification PRocess (ZSCP) | 15:40 |
| philiKON | mgedmin: do you know cheesecake? | 15:40 |
| mgedmin | (documentation, setup.py, unit tests, functional tests, website) | 15:40 |
| mgedmin | philiKON: heard about it, haven't used it | 15:40 |
| philiKON | srichter: i'm not convinced another site will help | 15:40 |
| mgedmin | only people can help | 15:41 |
| philiKON | exactly | 15:41 |
| naro | on plone.org/products I can see products, which are at least partly maintained. That's all. cheeseshop contains 21 products marked with zope3 label. | 15:42 |
| philiKON | the cheeseshop also records Trove identifiers | 15:43 |
| philiKON | http://cheeseshop.python.org/pypi?%3Aaction=list_classifiers | 15:43 |
| philiKON | the Development Status identifiers might be what you're lokoing for | 15:44 |
| philiKON | of course, people would have to fill those out | 15:44 |
| philiKON | hence, we need people | 15:44 |
| naro | in the other words. I want to know products which are available, because I want to start development of Zope3 application and I don't want to reinvent every piece of code. | 15:45 |
| philiKON | yes yes | 15:46 |
| naro | :) | 15:46 |
| naro | ok | 15:46 |
| philiKON | you've said that 3 times now :) | 15:46 |
| naro | svn.zope.org is my friend | 15:46 |
| naro | sorry | 15:46 |
| philiKON | i'm just trying to encourage you to contribute | 15:46 |
| philiKON | it doesnt' have to be svn.zope.org | 15:46 |
| philiKON | the cheeseshop can do a lot, we just have to provide the metadata | 15:47 |
| naro | as soon as I find some product useful and not in cheeseshop, I will come back with this topic :) | 15:48 |
| * baijum agree with philiKON, see this page has more packages http://cheeseshop.python.org/pypi?:action=browse&c=515 but only few are marked as "Production Stable" http://cheeseshop.python.org/pypi?:action=browse&c=5&c=515 | 15:49 | |
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| WebMaven | philiKON: did you see this module?: http://cheeseshop.python.org/pypi/livecoding/ | 17:12 |
| philiKON | WebMaven: the issue isn't with reloading itself | 17:13 |
| philiKON | that works | 17:13 |
| philiKON | the issue is with the zodb and its pickle cache | 17:13 |
| WebMaven | Ah. | 17:14 |
| philiKON | i tried to explain this in the email | 17:15 |
| philiKON | i don't understand it completely myself thoug | 17:15 |
| WebMaven | what email? | 17:15 |
| philiKON | so perhaps i wasn't very good at the explanation part | 17:15 |
| philiKON | to grok-dev and zodb-dev | 17:15 |
| philiKON | WebMaven: or based on what were you showing me livecoding? | 17:15 |
| WebMaven | Not subscribed, I just saw your checkin. | 17:15 |
| philiKON | ah, i see | 17:16 |
| philiKON | well, the checking msg also points to that email | 17:16 |
| philiKON | eload actually works | 17:17 |
| philiKON | persistent objects are just foobared | 17:17 |
| WebMaven | Hah. I should have read the second checking message. | 17:17 |
| WebMaven | Hmm. | 17:19 |
| WebMaven | The right person to answer that question would be Tim. Is he still at ZC? | 17:19 |
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| philiKON | WebMaven: i don't think so | 17:19 |
| philiKON | i don't think he's involved into zodb at all anymore | 17:19 |
| WebMaven | Darn. | 17:20 |
| philiKON | i was hoping J1m would know more... | 17:20 |
| WebMaven | who is the maintainer, then? | 17:20 |
| philiKON | or dieter | 17:20 |
| philiKON | J1m is | 17:20 |
| WebMaven | Do you know if ZODB has cache invalidation tests? | 17:21 |
| philiKON | nope. haven't looked yet | 17:21 |
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| timte | Why is placeful authentication done both during traversal and after traversal? | 17:23 |
| timte | ah, the objects are different | 17:26 |
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| WebMaven | philiKON: there are cache tests, but (and I could be wrong) it doesn't look like any of them test explicit cache invalidation: http://svn.zope.org/ZODB/trunk/src/ZODB/tests/testCache.py | 17:31 |
| J1m | philiKON, ? | 17:35 |
| philiKON | J1m: seen my email to zodb-dev? | 17:35 |
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| J1m | OK, I responded. | 17:55 |
| J1m | You won't like it. :) | 17:56 |
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| philiKON | J1m: ok | 17:58 |
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| philiKON | J1m: thanks for the response. i just replied | 18:12 |
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| faassen | philiKON: making restarts faster is what I've been trying to do, but so far not much progress. it neeeds some profiling & analysis first I suspect. | 19:03 |
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| philiKON | faassen: well, making restarts faster is nice, but it's not exactly what i was after | 19:06 |
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| faassen | philiKON: what I mean is if we make those faster, we may accomplish some of the same goals of auto-refresh. something like turbogears has fast restarts and also auto-restarts. | 19:08 |
| faassen | philiKON: you change some code, it just goes and restarts it for you. | 19:08 |
| philiKON | yes, i've been thinking about tha ttoo | 19:08 |
| philiKON | after J1m last response, i think i'll look into that | 19:08 |
| philiKON | faassen: it's a bit tricky since you'd like to keep the connection to the browser open | 19:09 |
| faassen | philiKON: dunno. | 19:09 |
| faassen | philiKON: why would you need to? | 19:09 |
| faassen | philiKON: I mean, stateless web and all. | 19:09 |
| philiKON | let's say i'm developing an app and just changed something | 19:10 |
| philiKON | now i go to back to the browser and hit refresh | 19:10 |
| philiKON | i then expect zope restarts itself and after having done so, it serves my browser with the new content | 19:11 |
| faassen | ah, well, TG just tells me 'sorry, can't' | 19:11 |
| faassen | that's nto a disaster. | 19:11 |
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| faassen | just don't get a connection .it's clear enough what to do then. :) | 19:11 |
| faassen | you just wait until the restart is really finished. | 19:11 |
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| faassen | essential is that the restart time is so short there is just no wait. | 19:12 |
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| philiKON | faassen: ok | 19:12 |
| philiKON | faassen: so when does it restart? | 19:12 |
| philiKON | the first request after a modification? | 19:13 |
| faassen | philiKON: no, right when you modify a file. | 19:13 |
| philiKON | aaah | 19:13 |
| philiKON | interesting | 19:13 |
| philiKON | wow | 19:13 |
| faassen | philiKON: I mean, it's stupid and silly and it just might work. if you have a syntax error, it won't manage to restart. | 19:13 |
| faassen | philiKON: it uses some file monitoring, I think they reuse something. | 19:13 |
| philiKON | i see | 19:13 |
| philiKON | well | 19:13 |
| faassen | philiKON: the idea is just that restarts are FAST | 19:13 |
| philiKON | right | 19:13 |
| philiKON | but still | 19:14 |
| faassen | philiKON: Zope 3 restarts are decidedly non-fast. | 19:14 |
| philiKON | it sort of boils down to forcing me into a certain development model | 19:14 |
| faassen | philiKON: you? | 19:14 |
| philiKON | e.g. saving when i think i got all the syntax errors taken care of | 19:14 |
| philiKON | but sometimes i just save in the middle of something | 19:14 |
| faassen | philiKON: well, no, I just save the same way as ever. | 19:14 |
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| faassen | philiKON: and sometimes a syntax error hits the thing and I have to press the up key and enter again. | 19:14 |
| philiKON | i gotta try out TG | 19:14 |
| faassen | philiKON: it hasn't really bothered me a lot. | 19:14 |
| philiKON | i don't want to go the terminal | 19:14 |
| philiKON | that's my goal | 19:15 |
| faassen | hm, okay, well, it's not my goal. :) | 19:15 |
| faassen | I need to go to the terminal for my debugging sessions, for instance. | 19:15 |
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| philiKON | sure, but newbies don't usually use the pdb a lot | 19:15 |
| faassen | sure, but they have to go the terminal to start up zope. | 19:15 |
| faassen | I mean, these are developers. | 19:16 |
| philiKON | sure, once | 19:16 |
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| faassen | TG absolutely *sucks* in the amount of nasty debugging messages it spews out. | 19:16 |
| faassen | 'print' debugging is almost useless. | 19:16 |
| faassen | I want my app server to be quiet on the terminal unless I ask it to speak :) | 19:16 |
| philiKON | sure sure | 19:17 |
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| faassen | anyway, that's an aside. | 19:17 |
| faassen | concerning the syntax error stuff, all I can say that I haven't had a lot of frustration with it yet. | 19:17 |
| faassen | I mean, with some stuff you're just WTF??!! all the time. | 19:17 |
| faassen | but not with this behavior. it feels fairly decent. | 19:17 |
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| philiKON | ok | 19:18 |
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| philiKON | faassen: back to the discussion on #grok :) | 19:18 |
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| d2m | faassen: on the Zope3 restart time - its about a second on my server | 20:12 |
| philiKON | d2m: well, yeah... | 20:12 |
| philiKON | how often do you restart zope on your server?!? | 20:12 |
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| d2m | sure, if you start a full bloated system (apidocs et al) it goes up to 4 secs | 20:13 |
| philiKON | no i mean, typically you want fast restarts on a dev machine | 20:13 |
| philiKON | for all i care, restarts on a server could take half a minute | 20:13 |
| philiKON | but for development i want something agile | 20:13 |
| philiKON | on my new laptop, it's 2 secs. if we could cut that in half, that'd be great | 20:14 |
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| d2m | philiKON: e.g. time the second and consecutive startup times on a minimal dev sytem - i'm under a second with a small dev system | 20:23 |
| d2m | eg, i've apidocs running on a different wsgi server and port | 20:24 |
| philiKON | i can't get below 2 secs | 20:25 |
| philiKON | with a fairly minimal instance | 20:25 |
| philiKON | core2 duo, osx | 20:25 |
| philiKON | i think osx accoutns for some of the slowdown | 20:25 |
| d2m | apidoc takes about 50% of the time | 20:25 |
| philiKON | my python on osx has fewer pystones than python on windows *in parallels* (e.g. virtualized) | 20:25 |
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| philiKON | d2m: btw, a quick test here reveals that loading apidoc seems to make a difference of 15% in startup time, not anywhere near 100% | 21:14 |
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| softdevr | hi, anyone know of a doc explaining what the ZMI 'Make a site' link does? | 21:59 |
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| srichter | why don't you just look up the code? | 22:01 |
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| srichter | zope.app.component.browser (__init__.py), starting at line 115 | 22:02 |
| softdevr | srichter: where is the zmi app located in the installation? I can trace code starting from there in the future | 22:08 |
| srichter | everywhere in zope.app.[modulename].browser | 22:08 |
| srichter | someof it is also directly in zope.app.rotterdam | 22:09 |
| srichter | if I would not have guessed the the location of the code, I would have searched all ZCML files for the string "Make a site" | 22:09 |
| srichter | which gets you the menu entry, which points to the page directive, which points to the class | 22:10 |
| srichter | darn, if I would have a full-text index in APIDOC, then you could do this there too | 22:10 |
| softdevr | yeah, would be nice! | 22:11 |
| softdevr | thanks for the tip | 22:11 |
| srichter | np | 22:11 |
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| zenwryly | is there a way to use a generator function (IE, using "yeild") as a zope.schema source? | 22:26 |
| zenwryly | I'm a little unclear on when the generator function is called to return the generator object | 22:27 |
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