IRC log of #zope3-dev for Thursday, 2007-03-15

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baijumZope Foundation is mentoring organization for Google SOC, see:
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*** baijum changes topic to "logs available at || paste code examples into or or || Zope 3.3.0 is out || bugs live at || Wiki at || FAQ at || Google SoC Ideas:"11:24
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Theunifaassen: hmm. maybe a question you can answer12:00
TheuniIt looks like Zope 2 Folders and Zope 3 objects are not compatible?!?12:00
TheuniI get an AttributeError when trying to add a Zope 3 object to a Zope 2 container12:01
Theunigoogle doesn't tell very much ... :/12:01
faassenTheuni: what is a 'zope 3 object'?12:02
faassenI mean, don't Zope 2 folders desire what's in them to fulfill a huge contract?12:03
faassenlike, SimpleItem?12:03
Theunilooks like it. actually 'zope 3 object' seems more like 'non-zope2-object' ... :/12:04
srichteryes, faassen, this is correct12:04
Theunii wonder how people currently do a mixed zope2/zope3 application right now to achieve this12:05
srichterI would guess they are not using Zope 3 objects for content12:05
srichteronly for component stuff12:05
faassenyes, typically using stuff for views.12:06
faassennot for content,s ubclass simpleitem.12:06
faassenthere's a huge set of requirements concenring acquisition and security too.12:06
Theunihmm. true.12:06
faassenI imagine it would be possible to try an alternate approach where you basically just traverse into zope 3 space from zope 2.12:06
faassenbut as far as I know nobody has experimented with that yet.12:07
Theunihmm. alright.12:07
Theunigood to know.12:07
faassenbut yeah, the basic pattern has been to use Zope 2 simpleitem as a base class for content.12:07
srichterfaassen, now that I have you here; If I create an lxml.etree, which I use for z3c.rml, can I extract some parsing information, like file name, line and column?12:08
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baijumhi philiKON15:14
baijumphiliKON, I think we should create a mailing list for SoC students and mentors15:16
baijumor should we use zope-dev list ?15:16
philiKONwe don't even know if we are a mentoring organization yet15:17
baijumyes, we are mentoring15:17
baijumlist is out now !15:17
baijumwe are at last :)15:18
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philiKONok, now we need students :)15:19
philiKONand i need a shower15:19
baijumlet's make a news item in ?15:19
meatballhatphiliKON: who needs students now?  :)   (ooh!  me! me!)15:20
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baijumd2m, can you publish this item :
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baijumphiliKON, I have created a news item here: if it's ok, please publish it.15:26
philiKONwill look at it later15:26
baijumthen what about mailing list ?15:27 would be fine15:28
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* baijum can see 'Zope Foundation, Inc' in
baijumis ZF "incorporated" ?15:39
J1mbaijum, yes15:40
baijumJ1m, ok, thanks!15:41
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d2mbaijum: done (looks like mail notification is not working again)15:52
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* J1m looks forward to launchpad taking over mailman agony15:52
J1mI'll ask our sa's to reboot mailman again.15:53
* J1m suspects this should be in a cron job :(15:53
J1mUnfortunately, the guy who does this was up until the wee hours of the morning, so probably won't get to this for a while.15:54
d2mcould be is in the spam filters again15:54
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d2mor even simpler mailhost does not work15:57
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J1mHm, was an open relay. This has been fixed.  I wonder if the fix contributed.15:58
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baijumd2m, thanks!15:59
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baijumd2m, but the news is not yet in .. some ZEO cache issue ?16:01
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J1md2m, see my private message.16:02
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baijumphiliKON, you didn't said anything about mailing list ?16:04
philiKONbaijum: would be fine, i suppose16:06
philiKONerr, soc :)16:06
benjiyeah, let's not associate ourselves with SCO :)16:07
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baijumgsco ?16:07
baijumhmm.. err.. gsoc@zope.org16:09
baijumbenji, you have previlege to create list there ?16:09
* benji calls bikeshed16:09
baijumthen... J1m, can you create with description as "Google Summer of Code" ?16:11
baijumphiliKON, is gsoc ok ?16:11
J1mfraid so16:11
* philiKON goes back to sprinting16:12
philiKONbaijum: sure16:12
* baijum want to leave now16:12
baijumgood night all !16:12
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timtephiliKON: is there a sprint now? where?16:25
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J1mphiliKON, I creatd the gsoc mailing list with you as the initial owner.16:29
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J1mphiliKON, I assed a soc project.16:39
philiKONJ1m: thanks16:39
J1mphiliKON, I added a soc project.16:39
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J1mI think this project is potentially very interesting for a student, doesn't require much zope expertise (if any) and is very very important.16:40
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timtephiliKON: Are you on every sprint? I so envy you  :)16:46
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faassenphiliKON: cool about the mentoring organization thing. note that we need to find students in like, 10 days time.16:48
faassenphiliKON: *and* mentors16:48
faassenphiliKON: so we're rather in a hurry, and you're in charge :)16:48
philiKONwe have some mentors16:48
philiKONbut can use more16:48
philiKONfaassen: interested?16:49
philiKONwe can also use some more ideas16:49
J1mOh, philiKON can the students be high school students?16:49
philiKONpossibly. haven't checked.16:50
* philiKON checks google faq16:50
faassenphiliKON: guess we need to think of some grok related projects. one thing I'd like to do is split off the groklib behavior from grok itself. the grokking bit is completley generic.16:50
philiKONfaassen: i guess.16:51
faassenphiliKON: I'm not going to committ to mentoring right now though. :)16:51
philiKONfaassen: i think there are more pressing things for grok, though16:51
faassenphiliKON: yeah, we can probably think about projecst that enthuse people more. :)16:51
philiKONunmangling forms16:51
faassenphiliKON: oh, sure.16:51
philiKONwe're sprinting on grok here, btw16:51
philiKONwell, *with* grok16:51
faassenphiliKON: I mean, what's mangled with forms?16:51
faassenphiliKON: cool16:51
philiKONfaassen: there are some minor annoyances16:51
faassenphiliKON: ok.16:51
philiKONfaassen: and one big one: no possibility to override the template16:52
J1mJeff Elkner has a team of high school students who are serious zope hackers.16:52
faassenphiliKON: I'm still surprised that isn't possible.16:52
philiKONfaassen: i want to fix that soonish16:52
philiKONJ1m: might be worth asking google16:52
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faassenphiliKON: I mean, you can't subclass the EditForm and simply give it its own template?16:52
faassenphiliKON: I guess I need to write a test for that. :)16:52
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philiKONfaassen: grok's Form baseclass overrides View's __call__16:53
philiKONnever calls the template16:53
philiKONit actually calls super __call__16:54
philiKONtest would be good :)16:54
faassenyes. :)16:54
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faassenphiliKON: will you blog about the Zope Foundation being accepted for the summer of code?18:07
philiKONfaassen: i might18:07
philiKONfaassen: btw18:07
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faassenphiliKON: (you appear on, and, right?)18:07
faassenphiliKON: do you want me to?18:07
philiKONfaassen: i found some more major annoyances :)18:08
faassenphiliKON: I mean, I think we should shout this off the rooftops a bit./18:08
philiKONfaassen: please go ahead!18:08
faassenphiliKON: okay.18:08
faassenphiliKON: what major annoyances?18:08
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philiKONforms in grok :)18:08
faassenphiliKON: should I point people to the soc wiki page?18:08
faassenphiliKON: okay. :)18:08
philiKONfaassen: yes, that'd be great18:08
philiKONfaassen: we're a bit stuck with our example app right now18:10
philiKONfaassen: so i think i'll fix a few things in grok now18:10
faassenphiliKON: okay. :)18:11
faassenphiliKON: what's the mayor annoyances with forms? :)18:11
philiKON- the for_display functionality isn't exposed18:11
philiKON- addforms don't have the applyChanges convenience method18:11
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faassenfor_display, isn't that an attribute on a widget?18:11
philiKON- need to check how to override form template (write test)18:11
philiKONfaassen: no18:11
philiKONfaassen: in form fields18:11
philiKONin zope 3 you do:18:12
faassenyes, I mean, form fields.18:12
faassencan't you just do..18:12
faassengo ahead..18:12
philiKONi can't18:12
philiKONgrok.Fields is special18:12
faassenit returns form fields.18:12
philiKONit's different from formlib's Fields18:12
faassenso, form_fields = grok.Fields(..)18:12
philiKONoh, yes, i can do that18:12
faassenform_fields['foo'].for_display = True18:12
faassenor doesn't that work?18:12
philiKONi see now18:12
philiKONwill have to check18:12
philiKONand write test :)18:12
faassenthat's the formlib pattern, I think. :)18:12
philiKONform_fields = Fields(IFoo, for_display=True)18:13
philiKONthat's the pattern i know18:13
faassenah, okay.18:13
philiKONbut yours works too18:13
philiKONi think18:13
faassenI thought we passed things along, and we also got a DisplayForm.18:13
philiKONwe don't18:13
philiKONzope3's Fields doesn't accept **kw18:13
philiKONwe do18:13
faassenit needs a bit of a test, then.18:13
faassenanyway, good it's getting a shakeout. :)18:13
philiKONmajor annoyance is that Form isn't exposed18:13
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philiKONwe need forms that are neither editform nor addform18:14
faassenexposed how? you can get to it in the template, the instance.18:14
faassenaah, right.18:14
faassenI agree.18:14
faassenyes, we need that.18:14
philiKONso, i want to do that18:14
faassensomething very close to addform.18:14
philiKONwell, there's the Form class18:14
faassenbut that's just a form.18:14
faassenI agree.18:14
faassenI wonder what applyChanges means in an addform context.18:14
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philiKONapplyChanges(obj, **data)18:14
philiKONor whatever18:14
faassenbut yes, exposing Form along the lines of EditForm and AddForm would be good.18:14
philiKONi think applyChanges should be available on any form18:15
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philiKONbecause it happens often that you apply the data to an object18:15
philiKONnot necessarily self.context as in EditForm18:15
philiKONin an AddForm you apply it to the newly created object18:15
faassenhm, I think someone messed up the zope 3 wiki homepage.18:15
philiKONlooks like a hack18:16
faassenyeah, childish. how to revert?18:16
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philiKONno idea18:17
faassenphiliKON: what do you want students who are interested to do? mail you?18:17
philiKONjoin gsoc@zope.org18:18
philiKONand apply to google :)18:18
faassenphiliKON: can you modify the wiki page to that effect?18:19
faassenit needs to be somewhere prominent.18:19
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philiKONfaassen: will do18:21
faassenphiliKON: thanks!18:21
faassenphiliKON: weblog entry published.18:23
faassenphiliKON: it's also great news for the visibility of the foundation, so thanks a lot for taking this initiave!18:23
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philiKONfaassen: done
faassenphiliKON: thanks!18:30
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faassenphiliKON: I added a few more project ideas.18:43
philiKONfaassen: cool18:43
philiKONfaassen: btw, i just realized that with grok installed, anybody can see the @@contents.html view and delete stuff :(18:44
philiKONincl. anonymous18:44
philiKONfaassen: just read the project ideas18:44
philiKONfaassen: there's one problem18:44
philiKONfaassen: the actual coding happens in the summer18:44
philiKONwe need to think a head a bit18:44
philiKONi would like to see a 1.0 before the summer18:44
philiKONand those things you mention are 1.0 items18:44
faassenphiliKON: oh, ick.18:45
faassenphiliKON: well, we'll just need to look at how it's going. I'm sure there's more to be done about an admin ui in the summer.18:45
faassenphiliKON: or to expand teh tutorial or reference further.18:45
faassenor integrate more components.18:46
faassenphiliKON: and it's likely we'll be happy with 1.0 only in the summer, right? :)18:46
philiKONi thought we were having a 1.0 sprint in april18:46
hazmatis there a todo list for 1.0?18:47
faassenphiliKON: I've been thinking about that. there's also an upcoming DZUG which has sprinting opportunities around it, and then there's europython.18:47
faassenphiliKON: plus I want to participate in pyweek in the first week of april. :)18:47
philiKONfaassen: ok18:47
philiKONfaassen: i'll be fine with dzug or europython18:47
philiKONi just don't want to drag it out unnecessarily18:48
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faassenphiliKON: oh, I agree. anyway, I have the feeling we're making steady progress.18:48
faassenphiliKON: which is the most important bit.18:48
faassenphiliKON: anyway, I also think that there's work remaining after 1.0, lots of work, so I'm not too worried about the SOC.18:49
faassenphiliKON: DZUG is early june.18:49
faassenphiliKON: we could have a grok sprint early may, but it's spaced togethre quite a bit.18:49
philiKONattaching it to dzug might be fine18:49
philiKONi might not make it though18:49
faassenphiliKON: that'd be too bad.18:50
philiKONbut at this point it's only skins + writing docs, i suppose18:50
faassenphiliKON: if we attach it to DZUG we could have it very early june.18:50
faassen'only writing docs', huh?18:50
philiKONi didn't say only18:50
faassenphiliKON: and please make a launchpad issue for that major security problem. :)18:50
philiKONi will18:50
faassenphiliKON: it might be we'll end up trying to dump zope.app18:50
faassenphiliKON: with the eggified zope it might be a bit more doable.18:51
philiKONi was going to suggest that anyhow18:51
faassenphiliKON: yeah.18:51
philiKONperhaps even18:51
philiKONnot sure18:51
faassenphiliKON: don't know what all defines views.18:51
philiKONthat's the app we've been working on18:51
philiKONfaassen: is the 90% of "Zope3-the-application-server"18:51
philiKONdoes security, database, traversal, lookups, errors, authentication18:52
faassenphiliKON: a simpler traversal would definitely be useful. :)18:53
faassenphiliKON: supporting just Grok's use cases shouldn't be too crazy.18:53
faassenphiliKON: of course ZPT requires bits of traversal I don't understand.18:53
philiKONthat's not traversal18:53
philiKONthat's path lookup18:53
philiKONit's poorly named18:53
faassenphiliKON: well, yeah, bits I don't understand. :)18:53
philiKONzope.traversing should be zope.pathresolving18:53
philiKONbut in principle i agree18:54
* philiKON goes for lunch18:54
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pcardunebenji: how far did you guys get at the sprint with AJAX+formlib?20:14
benjiI don't believe that was worked on.20:14
pcarduneI thought you guys were looking at the turbogears equivalent of formlib to see how you could do some AJAX integration?20:16
faassenpcardune: do you mean ToscaWidgets?20:17
pcardunemaybe that is what I mean20:17
pcardunefaassen: what is ToscaWidgets?  I don't remember hearing that name20:17
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benjiyep, we looked at ToscaWidgets, it's not, neccesarily, AJAX20:18
faassenpcardune: it's the turbogears widgets system, extracted20:18
faassenbenji: agreed.20:18
faassenToscawidgets is nice and a bit too magic for my tastes.20:18
faassenso I have mixed feelings. :)20:18
faassenI think they're simple to use, which is nice.20:18
benjiit turns out that ToscaWidgets is very, very young; we did decide that we could probably use the widgets seperate from the forms and have the best of both worlds20:19
faassenpcardune: and made more generic, so it should be integratable into Zope.20:19
faassenbenji: it is very young indeed.20:19
pcarduneoh I understand now20:19
benjiyep, I think we could write a fairly small bit of code and be able to, with one line of ZCML, a tosca widget registered as a Zope widget20:20
faassenanyway, I'd like to see something closer to TurboGears style json support in zope 3. there's a package in codespeak that can do something.20:20
faassenI also tried to bend the publisher to my will one time but I got very lost.20:20
faassenbenji: lines of ZCML? how quaint. :)20:20
pcarduneWell I'm interested in enhancing formlib to have some backend support for ajax+json20:20
benjiwhich being interpreted means "easily"20:20
faassenpcardune: I'm not sure toscawidgets helps a lot there. it doesn't really do json or ajax itself.20:21
faassenpcardune: you can write widgets that use both, of course, but you'd typically go through something like MochiKit20:21
faassenpcardune: and widgets need to be parameterized with the URL where they send their json bits to.20:22
pcardunewell that is fine, I was just wondering if there had already been some work done in that direction20:22
faassenpcardune: or where they get them from, more likely.20:22
faassenpcardune: there's the whole kss bit.20:22
faassenpcardune: that's a lot of work in that direction, but in a different way.20:22
faassenpcardune: there's also jsonserver, let me look it up.20:22
pcarduneI think I might add a proposal for GSoC for json/ajax forms20:22
faassenpcardune: sounds good. :)20:23
pcarduneok, since I'm clearly not the only one interested in this, I'll go ahead and put it up20:23
philiKONgo ahead :)20:30
faassenphiliKON: I also put in a projec tto support multiple templating languages with Zope 3 (possibly through something like buffet)20:31
philiKONthat's a very good idea20:31
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benjifaassen: I would hope buffet itself would work20:32
faassenbenji: buffet itself is CherryPy based.20:32
faassenbenji: Pylons has a fork.20:32
faassenbenji: I also think buffet by itself isn't enough. :)20:32
benjiperhaps they'd be interested in genericifying it20:32
faassenbenji: I mean, you need something to pass in the appropriate zope 3 things like context and view.20:32
faassenbenji: possibly, yes.20:33
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faassenbenji: anyway getting that all tested and working and documented and so on is more than enough for someone's project. :)20:34
faassenbenji: as a bonus they can do the grok integration. :)20:34
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RaFromBRCJ1m: ping21:27
RaFromBRCsorry to bug you... i'm sprinting w/ TresEquis on GenericSetup, and need to upload a new ssh key for my laptop to commit21:28
RaFromBRCcan't remember my password (rafrombrc is the account) and am not receiving the reminder emails... i'm pretty sure my address is valid though21:29
RaFromBRCanything you can do to help?  i've got other addresses i can use, if need be, not sure which one is in there now21:29
RaFromBRCn/m... i've just received the emails... about 20 minute lag....21:30
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