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| baijum | Zope Foundation is mentoring organization for Google SOC, see: http://code.google.com/soc | 10:51 |
|---|---|---|
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| *** baijum changes topic to "logs available at http://zope3.pov.lt/irclogs/ || paste code examples into http://zope3.pastey.net/ or http://zope3.pastebin.com/ or http://paste.plone.org/ || Zope 3.3.0 is out || bugs live at http://www.zope.org/Collectors/Zope3-dev || Wiki at http://wiki.zope.org/zope3 || FAQ at http://wiki.zope.org/zope3/FAQ || Google SoC Ideas: http://wiki.zope.org/zope3/SummerOfCode2007" | 11:24 | |
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| Theuni | hmm | 12:00 |
| Theuni | faassen: hmm. maybe a question you can answer | 12:00 |
| Theuni | It looks like Zope 2 Folders and Zope 3 objects are not compatible?!? | 12:00 |
| Theuni | I get an AttributeError when trying to add a Zope 3 object to a Zope 2 container | 12:01 |
| Theuni | ('manage_fixupOwnershipAfterAdd') | 12:01 |
| Theuni | google doesn't tell very much ... :/ | 12:01 |
| faassen | Theuni: what is a 'zope 3 object'? | 12:02 |
| faassen | I mean, don't Zope 2 folders desire what's in them to fulfill a huge contract? | 12:03 |
| faassen | like, SimpleItem? | 12:03 |
| Theuni | looks like it. actually 'zope 3 object' seems more like 'non-zope2-object' ... :/ | 12:04 |
| srichter | yes, faassen, this is correct | 12:04 |
| Theuni | i wonder how people currently do a mixed zope2/zope3 application right now to achieve this | 12:05 |
| srichter | I would guess they are not using Zope 3 objects for content | 12:05 |
| srichter | only for component stuff | 12:05 |
| Theuni | interesting | 12:06 |
| faassen | yes, typically using stuff for views. | 12:06 |
| faassen | not for content,s ubclass simpleitem. | 12:06 |
| faassen | there's a huge set of requirements concenring acquisition and security too. | 12:06 |
| Theuni | hmm. true. | 12:06 |
| faassen | I imagine it would be possible to try an alternate approach where you basically just traverse into zope 3 space from zope 2. | 12:06 |
| faassen | but as far as I know nobody has experimented with that yet. | 12:07 |
| Theuni | hmm. alright. | 12:07 |
| Theuni | good to know. | 12:07 |
| faassen | but yeah, the basic pattern has been to use Zope 2 simpleitem as a base class for content. | 12:07 |
| srichter | faassen, now that I have you here; If I create an lxml.etree, which I use for z3c.rml, can I extract some parsing information, like file name, line and column? | 12:08 |
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| baijum | hi philiKON | 15:14 |
| baijum | philiKON, I think we should create a mailing list for SoC students and mentors | 15:16 |
| baijum | or should we use zope-dev list ? | 15:16 |
| philiKON | we don't even know if we are a mentoring organization yet | 15:17 |
| baijum | yes, we are mentoring | 15:17 |
| baijum | list is out now ! | 15:17 |
| philiKON | oh | 15:17 |
| philiKON | really? | 15:17 |
| philiKON | where? | 15:17 |
| baijum | http://code.google.com/soc/ | 15:17 |
| baijum | we are at last :) | 15:18 |
| philiKON | woohooooo! | 15:18 |
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| philiKON | ok, now we need students :) | 15:19 |
| philiKON | and i need a shower | 15:19 |
| baijum | let's make a news item in zope.org ? | 15:19 |
| meatballhat | philiKON: who needs students now? :) (ooh! me! me!) | 15:20 |
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| baijum | d2m, can you publish this item : http://www.zope.org/Members/baijum/bulletin/google-summer-of-code-2007 | 15:24 |
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| baijum | philiKON, I have created a news item here: http://www.zope.org/Members/baijum/bulletin/google-summer-of-code-2007 if it's ok, please publish it. | 15:26 |
| philiKON | will look at it later | 15:26 |
| baijum | ok | 15:27 |
| baijum | then what about mailing list ? | 15:27 |
| baijum | soc@zope.org would be fine | 15:28 |
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| * baijum can see 'Zope Foundation, Inc' in http://code.google.com/soc/ | 15:39 | |
| baijum | is ZF "incorporated" ? | 15:39 |
| J1m | baijum, yes | 15:40 |
| baijum | J1m, ok, thanks! | 15:41 |
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| d2m | baijum: done (looks like mail notification is not working again) | 15:52 |
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| J1m | sigh | 15:52 |
| * J1m looks forward to launchpad taking over mailman agony | 15:52 | |
| J1m | I'll ask our sa's to reboot mailman again. | 15:53 |
| d2m | thanks | 15:53 |
| * J1m suspects this should be in a cron job :( | 15:53 | |
| J1m | Unfortunately, the guy who does this was up until the wee hours of the morning, so probably won't get to this for a while. | 15:54 |
| d2m | could be webmaster@zope.org is in the spam filters again | 15:54 |
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| d2m | or even simpler mailhost does not work | 15:57 |
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| J1m | Hm, mail.zope.org was an open relay. This has been fixed. I wonder if the fix contributed. | 15:58 |
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| baijum | d2m, thanks! | 15:59 |
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| baijum | d2m, but the news is not yet in zope.org .. some ZEO cache issue ? | 16:01 |
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| J1m | d2m, see my private message. | 16:02 |
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| baijum | philiKON, you didn't said anything about mailing list ? | 16:04 |
| philiKON | baijum: sco@zope.org would be fine, i suppose | 16:06 |
| philiKON | err, soc :) | 16:06 |
| benji | yeah, let's not associate ourselves with SCO :) | 16:07 |
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| baijum | gsco ? | 16:07 |
| baijum | hmm.. err.. gsoc@zope.org | 16:09 |
| baijum | benji, you have previlege to create list there ? | 16:09 |
| * benji calls bikeshed | 16:09 | |
| benji | nope | 16:09 |
| baijum | then... J1m, can you create gsoc@zope.org with description as "Google Summer of Code" ? | 16:11 |
| baijum | philiKON, is gsoc ok ? | 16:11 |
| J1m | fraid so | 16:11 |
| * philiKON goes back to sprinting | 16:12 | |
| philiKON | baijum: sure | 16:12 |
| * baijum want to leave now | 16:12 | |
| baijum | good night all ! | 16:12 |
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| timte | philiKON: is there a sprint now? where? | 16:25 |
| philiKON | http://www.openplans.org/projects/bbq-sprint/ | 16:25 |
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| J1m | philiKON, I creatd the gsoc mailing list with you as the initial owner. | 16:29 |
| philiKON | thanks | 16:32 |
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| J1m | philiKON, I assed a soc project. | 16:39 |
| J1m | aargh | 16:39 |
| philiKON | J1m: thanks | 16:39 |
| J1m | philiKON, I added a soc project. | 16:39 |
| philiKON | right | 16:39 |
| philiKON | :) | 16:39 |
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| J1m | I think this project is potentially very interesting for a student, doesn't require much zope expertise (if any) and is very very important. | 16:40 |
| philiKON | right | 16:40 |
| philiKON | agreed | 16:40 |
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| timte | philiKON: Are you on every sprint? I so envy you :) | 16:46 |
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| faassen | philiKON: cool about the mentoring organization thing. note that we need to find students in like, 10 days time. | 16:48 |
| faassen | philiKON: *and* mentors | 16:48 |
| faassen | philiKON: so we're rather in a hurry, and you're in charge :) | 16:48 |
| philiKON | yup | 16:48 |
| philiKON | we have some mentors | 16:48 |
| philiKON | but can use more | 16:48 |
| philiKON | faassen: interested? | 16:49 |
| philiKON | http://wiki.zope.org/zope3/SummerOfCode2007 | 16:49 |
| philiKON | we can also use some more ideas | 16:49 |
| J1m | Oh, philiKON can the students be high school students? | 16:49 |
| philiKON | possibly. haven't checked. | 16:50 |
| * philiKON checks google faq | 16:50 | |
| faassen | philiKON: guess we need to think of some grok related projects. one thing I'd like to do is split off the groklib behavior from grok itself. the grokking bit is completley generic. | 16:50 |
| philiKON | J1m: http://code.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=60279&topic=10730 | 16:50 |
| philiKON | faassen: i guess. | 16:51 |
| faassen | philiKON: I'm not going to committ to mentoring right now though. :) | 16:51 |
| philiKON | faassen: i think there are more pressing things for grok, though | 16:51 |
| philiKON | imo | 16:51 |
| faassen | philiKON: yeah, we can probably think about projecst that enthuse people more. :) | 16:51 |
| philiKON | unmangling forms | 16:51 |
| faassen | philiKON: oh, sure. | 16:51 |
| philiKON | we're sprinting on grok here, btw | 16:51 |
| philiKON | well, *with* grok | 16:51 |
| faassen | philiKON: I mean, what's mangled with forms? | 16:51 |
| faassen | philiKON: cool | 16:51 |
| J1m | dang | 16:51 |
| philiKON | faassen: there are some minor annoyances | 16:51 |
| faassen | philiKON: ok. | 16:51 |
| philiKON | faassen: and one big one: no possibility to override the template | 16:52 |
| J1m | Jeff Elkner has a team of high school students who are serious zope hackers. | 16:52 |
| faassen | philiKON: I'm still surprised that isn't possible. | 16:52 |
| philiKON | faassen: i want to fix that soonish | 16:52 |
| philiKON | J1m: might be worth asking google | 16:52 |
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| faassen | philiKON: I mean, you can't subclass the EditForm and simply give it its own template? | 16:52 |
| faassen | philiKON: I guess I need to write a test for that. :) | 16:52 |
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| philiKON | faassen: grok's Form baseclass overrides View's __call__ | 16:53 |
| philiKON | never calls the template | 16:53 |
| philiKON | um | 16:54 |
| philiKON | wait | 16:54 |
| philiKON | it actually calls super __call__ | 16:54 |
| philiKON | hmmm | 16:54 |
| philiKON | test would be good :) | 16:54 |
| faassen | yes. :) | 16:54 |
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| faassen | philiKON: will you blog about the Zope Foundation being accepted for the summer of code? | 18:07 |
| philiKON | faassen: i might | 18:07 |
| philiKON | faassen: btw | 18:07 |
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| faassen | philiKON: (you appear on planet.zope.org, planet.plone.org and planet.python.org, right?) | 18:07 |
| faassen | philiKON: do you want me to? | 18:07 |
| philiKON | faassen: i found some more major annoyances :) | 18:08 |
| faassen | philiKON: I mean, I think we should shout this off the rooftops a bit./ | 18:08 |
| philiKON | faassen: please go ahead! | 18:08 |
| faassen | philiKON: okay. | 18:08 |
| philiKON | yes | 18:08 |
| faassen | philiKON: what major annoyances? | 18:08 |
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| philiKON | forms in grok :) | 18:08 |
| faassen | philiKON: should I point people to the soc wiki page? | 18:08 |
| faassen | philiKON: okay. :) | 18:08 |
| philiKON | faassen: yes, that'd be great | 18:08 |
| philiKON | faassen: we're a bit stuck with our example app right now | 18:10 |
| philiKON | faassen: so i think i'll fix a few things in grok now | 18:10 |
| faassen | philiKON: okay. :) | 18:11 |
| faassen | philiKON: what's the mayor annoyances with forms? :) | 18:11 |
| philiKON | - the for_display functionality isn't exposed | 18:11 |
| philiKON | - addforms don't have the applyChanges convenience method | 18:11 |
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| faassen | for_display, isn't that an attribute on a widget? | 18:11 |
| philiKON | - need to check how to override form template (write test) | 18:11 |
| philiKON | faassen: no | 18:11 |
| philiKON | faassen: in form fields | 18:11 |
| philiKON | in zope 3 you do: | 18:12 |
| faassen | yes, I mean, form fields. | 18:12 |
| faassen | can't you just do.. | 18:12 |
| faassen | go ahead.. | 18:12 |
| philiKON | no | 18:12 |
| philiKON | i can't | 18:12 |
| philiKON | grok.Fields is special | 18:12 |
| faassen | it returns form fields. | 18:12 |
| philiKON | it's different from formlib's Fields | 18:12 |
| philiKON | right | 18:12 |
| faassen | so, form_fields = grok.Fields(..) | 18:12 |
| philiKON | oh, yes, i can do that | 18:12 |
| faassen | form_fields['foo'].for_display = True | 18:12 |
| philiKON | hmmm | 18:12 |
| faassen | or doesn't that work? | 18:12 |
| philiKON | i see now | 18:12 |
| philiKON | will have to check | 18:12 |
| philiKON | and write test :) | 18:12 |
| faassen | that's the formlib pattern, I think. :) | 18:12 |
| philiKON | well | 18:13 |
| philiKON | form_fields = Fields(IFoo, for_display=True) | 18:13 |
| philiKON | that's the pattern i know | 18:13 |
| faassen | ah, okay. | 18:13 |
| philiKON | but yours works too | 18:13 |
| philiKON | i think | 18:13 |
| faassen | I thought we passed things along, and we also got a DisplayForm. | 18:13 |
| philiKON | we don't | 18:13 |
| philiKON | zope3's Fields doesn't accept **kw | 18:13 |
| philiKON | we do | 18:13 |
| faassen | right. | 18:13 |
| faassen | it needs a bit of a test, then. | 18:13 |
| philiKON | aaanyway | 18:13 |
| faassen | anyway, good it's getting a shakeout. :) | 18:13 |
| philiKON | major annoyance is that Form isn't exposed | 18:13 |
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| philiKON | we need forms that are neither editform nor addform | 18:14 |
| faassen | exposed how? you can get to it in the template, the instance. | 18:14 |
| faassen | aah, right. | 18:14 |
| faassen | I agree. | 18:14 |
| faassen | yes, we need that. | 18:14 |
| philiKON | so, i want to do that | 18:14 |
| faassen | something very close to addform. | 18:14 |
| philiKON | well, there's the Form class | 18:14 |
| faassen | but that's just a form. | 18:14 |
| faassen | I agree. | 18:14 |
| faassen | I wonder what applyChanges means in an addform context. | 18:14 |
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| philiKON | applyChanges(obj, **data) | 18:14 |
| philiKON | or whatever | 18:14 |
| faassen | but yes, exposing Form along the lines of EditForm and AddForm would be good. | 18:14 |
| philiKON | i think applyChanges should be available on any form | 18:15 |
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| philiKON | because it happens often that you apply the data to an object | 18:15 |
| philiKON | not necessarily self.context as in EditForm | 18:15 |
| philiKON | in an AddForm you apply it to the newly created object | 18:15 |
| faassen | hm, I think someone messed up the zope 3 wiki homepage. | 18:15 |
| faassen | http://wiki.zope.org/zope3/FrontPage | 18:15 |
| philiKON | shrug | 18:16 |
| philiKON | looks like a hack | 18:16 |
| faassen | yeah, childish. how to revert? | 18:16 |
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| philiKON | no idea | 18:17 |
| faassen | philiKON: what do you want students who are interested to do? mail you? | 18:17 |
| philiKON | join gsoc@zope.org | 18:18 |
| philiKON | and apply to google :) | 18:18 |
| faassen | philiKON: can you modify the wiki page to that effect? | 18:19 |
| faassen | it needs to be somewhere prominent. | 18:19 |
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| philiKON | faassen: will do | 18:21 |
| faassen | philiKON: thanks! | 18:21 |
| faassen | philiKON: weblog entry published. | 18:23 |
| philiKON | thanks | 18:23 |
| faassen | philiKON: it's also great news for the visibility of the foundation, so thanks a lot for taking this initiave! | 18:23 |
| philiKON | sure | 18:23 |
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| philiKON | faassen: done http://wiki.zope.org/zope3/SummerOfCode2007 | 18:30 |
| faassen | philiKON: thanks! | 18:30 |
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| faassen | philiKON: I added a few more project ideas. | 18:43 |
| philiKON | faassen: cool | 18:43 |
| philiKON | faassen: btw, i just realized that with grok installed, anybody can see the @@contents.html view and delete stuff :( | 18:44 |
| philiKON | incl. anonymous | 18:44 |
| philiKON | faassen: just read the project ideas | 18:44 |
| philiKON | faassen: there's one problem | 18:44 |
| philiKON | faassen: the actual coding happens in the summer | 18:44 |
| philiKON | we need to think a head a bit | 18:44 |
| philiKON | i would like to see a 1.0 before the summer | 18:44 |
| philiKON | and those things you mention are 1.0 items | 18:44 |
| faassen | philiKON: oh, ick. | 18:45 |
| faassen | philiKON: well, we'll just need to look at how it's going. I'm sure there's more to be done about an admin ui in the summer. | 18:45 |
| faassen | philiKON: or to expand teh tutorial or reference further. | 18:45 |
| faassen | or integrate more components. | 18:46 |
| faassen | philiKON: and it's likely we'll be happy with 1.0 only in the summer, right? :) | 18:46 |
| philiKON | sigh | 18:46 |
| philiKON | :) | 18:46 |
| philiKON | i thought we were having a 1.0 sprint in april | 18:46 |
| hazmat | is there a todo list for 1.0? | 18:47 |
| faassen | philiKON: I've been thinking about that. there's also an upcoming DZUG which has sprinting opportunities around it, and then there's europython. | 18:47 |
| faassen | philiKON: plus I want to participate in pyweek in the first week of april. :) | 18:47 |
| philiKON | faassen: ok | 18:47 |
| philiKON | faassen: i'll be fine with dzug or europython | 18:47 |
| philiKON | i just don't want to drag it out unnecessarily | 18:48 |
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| philiKON | hazmat: https://blueprints.launchpad.net/grok/1.0/+specs | 18:48 |
| faassen | philiKON: oh, I agree. anyway, I have the feeling we're making steady progress. | 18:48 |
| philiKON | yup | 18:48 |
| faassen | philiKON: which is the most important bit. | 18:48 |
| faassen | philiKON: anyway, I also think that there's work remaining after 1.0, lots of work, so I'm not too worried about the SOC. | 18:49 |
| faassen | philiKON: DZUG is early june. | 18:49 |
| faassen | philiKON: we could have a grok sprint early may, but it's spaced togethre quite a bit. | 18:49 |
| philiKON | attaching it to dzug might be fine | 18:49 |
| philiKON | i might not make it though | 18:49 |
| faassen | philiKON: that'd be too bad. | 18:50 |
| philiKON | but at this point it's only skins + writing docs, i suppose | 18:50 |
| faassen | philiKON: if we attach it to DZUG we could have it very early june. | 18:50 |
| faassen | 'only writing docs', huh? | 18:50 |
| philiKON | :) | 18:50 |
| philiKON | i didn't say only | 18:50 |
| faassen | philiKON: and please make a launchpad issue for that major security problem. :) | 18:50 |
| philiKON | i will | 18:50 |
| faassen | philiKON: it might be we'll end up trying to dump zope.app | 18:50 |
| faassen | philiKON: with the eggified zope it might be a bit more doable. | 18:51 |
| philiKON | well | 18:51 |
| philiKON | dumping zope.app.rotterdam | 18:51 |
| philiKON | i was going to suggest that anyhow | 18:51 |
| faassen | philiKON: yeah. | 18:51 |
| philiKON | perhaps zope.app.publication even | 18:51 |
| philiKON | not sure | 18:51 |
| philiKON | btw http://codespeak.net/svn/z3/NudgeNudge/trunk/README.txt | 18:51 |
| faassen | philiKON: don't know what all defines views. | 18:51 |
| philiKON | that's the app we've been working on | 18:51 |
| philiKON | faassen: zope.app.publication is the 90% of "Zope3-the-application-server" | 18:51 |
| philiKON | does security, database, traversal, lookups, errors, authentication | 18:52 |
| faassen | philiKON: a simpler traversal would definitely be useful. :) | 18:53 |
| faassen | philiKON: supporting just Grok's use cases shouldn't be too crazy. | 18:53 |
| faassen | philiKON: of course ZPT requires bits of traversal I don't understand. | 18:53 |
| philiKON | that's not traversal | 18:53 |
| philiKON | that's path lookup | 18:53 |
| philiKON | it's poorly named | 18:53 |
| faassen | philiKON: well, yeah, bits I don't understand. :) | 18:53 |
| philiKON | zope.traversing should be zope.pathresolving | 18:53 |
| philiKON | but in principle i agree | 18:54 |
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| pcardune | benji: how far did you guys get at the sprint with AJAX+formlib? | 20:14 |
| benji | I don't believe that was worked on. | 20:14 |
| pcardune | I thought you guys were looking at the turbogears equivalent of formlib to see how you could do some AJAX integration? | 20:16 |
| faassen | pcardune: do you mean ToscaWidgets? | 20:17 |
| pcardune | maybe that is what I mean | 20:17 |
| pcardune | faassen: what is ToscaWidgets? I don't remember hearing that name | 20:17 |
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| benji | yep, we looked at ToscaWidgets, it's not, neccesarily, AJAX | 20:18 |
| faassen | pcardune: it's the turbogears widgets system, extracted | 20:18 |
| faassen | benji: agreed. | 20:18 |
| faassen | Toscawidgets is nice and a bit too magic for my tastes. | 20:18 |
| faassen | so I have mixed feelings. :) | 20:18 |
| faassen | I think they're simple to use, which is nice. | 20:18 |
| benji | it turns out that ToscaWidgets is very, very young; we did decide that we could probably use the widgets seperate from the forms and have the best of both worlds | 20:19 |
| faassen | pcardune: and made more generic, so it should be integratable into Zope. | 20:19 |
| faassen | benji: it is very young indeed. | 20:19 |
| pcardune | oh I understand now | 20:19 |
| benji | yep, I think we could write a fairly small bit of code and be able to, with one line of ZCML, a tosca widget registered as a Zope widget | 20:20 |
| faassen | anyway, I'd like to see something closer to TurboGears style json support in zope 3. there's a package in codespeak that can do something. | 20:20 |
| faassen | I also tried to bend the publisher to my will one time but I got very lost. | 20:20 |
| faassen | benji: lines of ZCML? how quaint. :) | 20:20 |
| benji | heh | 20:20 |
| pcardune | Well I'm interested in enhancing formlib to have some backend support for ajax+json | 20:20 |
| benji | which being interpreted means "easily" | 20:20 |
| faassen | pcardune: I'm not sure toscawidgets helps a lot there. it doesn't really do json or ajax itself. | 20:21 |
| faassen | pcardune: you can write widgets that use both, of course, but you'd typically go through something like MochiKit | 20:21 |
| faassen | pcardune: and widgets need to be parameterized with the URL where they send their json bits to. | 20:22 |
| pcardune | well that is fine, I was just wondering if there had already been some work done in that direction | 20:22 |
| faassen | pcardune: or where they get them from, more likely. | 20:22 |
| faassen | pcardune: there's the whole kss bit. | 20:22 |
| faassen | pcardune: that's a lot of work in that direction, but in a different way. | 20:22 |
| faassen | pcardune: there's also jsonserver, let me look it up. | 20:22 |
| pcardune | I think I might add a proposal for GSoC for json/ajax forms | 20:22 |
| faassen | http://codespeak.net/svn/z3/jsonserver/ | 20:22 |
| faassen | pcardune: sounds good. :) | 20:23 |
| pcardune | ok, since I'm clearly not the only one interested in this, I'll go ahead and put it up | 20:23 |
| philiKON | go ahead :) | 20:30 |
| faassen | philiKON: I also put in a projec tto support multiple templating languages with Zope 3 (possibly through something like buffet) | 20:31 |
| philiKON | that's a very good idea | 20:31 |
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| benji | faassen: I would hope buffet itself would work | 20:32 |
| faassen | benji: buffet itself is CherryPy based. | 20:32 |
| faassen | benji: Pylons has a fork. | 20:32 |
| faassen | benji: I also think buffet by itself isn't enough. :) | 20:32 |
| benji | perhaps they'd be interested in genericifying it | 20:32 |
| faassen | benji: I mean, you need something to pass in the appropriate zope 3 things like context and view. | 20:32 |
| faassen | benji: possibly, yes. | 20:33 |
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| faassen | benji: anyway getting that all tested and working and documented and so on is more than enough for someone's project. :) | 20:34 |
| faassen | benji: as a bonus they can do the grok integration. :) | 20:34 |
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| RaFromBRC | J1m: ping | 21:27 |
| J1m | pong | 21:28 |
| RaFromBRC | sorry to bug you... i'm sprinting w/ TresEquis on GenericSetup, and need to upload a new ssh key for my laptop to commit | 21:28 |
| RaFromBRC | can't remember my zope.org password (rafrombrc is the account) and am not receiving the reminder emails... i'm pretty sure my address is valid though | 21:29 |
| RaFromBRC | anything you can do to help? i've got other addresses i can use, if need be, not sure which one is in there now | 21:29 |
| RaFromBRC | n/m... i've just received the emails... about 20 minute lag.... | 21:30 |
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