IRC log of #zope3-dev for Sunday, 2007-04-29

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dobeejukart: ayt?10:54
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ccombHello,  I get an error in the apidoc :  http://localhost:9676/++apidoc++/Code/zope/app/container/contained/ObjectMovedEvent/index.html13:07
ccombis it known, or specific to my setup?13:08
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goplusccomb: me not (3.4.0a1 from tgz)13:10
ccombI'm with 3.3.113:11
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nxfHi folks, I'm new to Zope in general, and trying to evaluate Z2 and Z3. I want to write a small web app to start with, not requiring Plone or anything, but I like the portal_skins feature from CMFCore in Z2. Would you recommend to jump directly into Z3 or first get familiar with the Z2 way of doing things?13:16
ccombIf you want to use just zope, jump directly into Z313:18
ccombIf you want a full featured CMS, jump into Plone, and try to use Five as much as possible13:18
ccomb(that's my opinion)13:18
ccombYou already have some skinning features and form generation in Z313:19
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ccombHey, What happened to worldcookery?13:23
ccombnxf : if you dive into Z3, you should seriously consider buying this book :13:25
nxf_Thanks ccomb, I'll concentrate on Z3 to start with. When I need Plone it will probably have been ported in the meantime :D Thanks again13:26
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nxf_I can't seem to find a SiteRoot to add in the ZMI of Zope 3.3.1?13:45
ccombyou can add a folder and turn it into a site13:49
ccombBe aware that you won't be able to do through-the-web development with Z313:50
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d2manyone has some performance figures for using mod_python+zope3 ?14:02
philiKON_uh no.14:21
philiKON_it's not really production material14:21
d2mi know14:21
d2mi'm just compiling benches with mod_wsgi now14:21
d2mand don't have experience with mod_python at all14:22
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d2mdo you know if the ZODB is locked on every request ? if so, what would make it release the lock ? is it timed ?20:24
d2mi'm getting "ERROR ZODB.lock_file Error locking file /.../Data.fs.lock" errors on benchmarking the WSGIApplication object20:25
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philiKON_d2m: the zodb is locked when the database is opened21:00
philiKON_this happens when zope starts up21:01
philiKON_in your case you seem to be starting multiple zopes21:01
philiKON_because, for example, mod_python/mod_wsgi start multiple python interpreter21:01
philiKON_at least one per apache process21:01
philiKON_you probably want to use zeo here21:01
d2mok, i'll try, thanks for the tip21:02
d2merr, hint21:02
philiKON_however, last time i wanted to use zeo within apache, i had problems21:03
d2mi haven't had that kind of problem with a wsgi server so far21:04
d2mphiliKON_: works now, and its double the speed than with the local Data.fs21:17
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philiKON_d2m: well, duh, of course you haven't had a problem so far if the server was single processed and multi-threaded21:19
philiKON_but apache typically is multi-processed21:19
d2mso, i'm getting now 120 req/sec ofZope3+ZEO, on a station that makes 2500 req/sec on a static file with apache21:22
d2mi think the resulting will be a 2 to 3 times increase over the builtin server21:26
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philiKON_d2m: neat21:50
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derek|laptopdoes anyone know how to populate a field on an annotation with the return value of a function upon annotation creation? I tried doing it in the annotation impl class, but that seems to be ignored. I also looked at doing it in the schema, but the arguments for TextLine AFAICT only allow literal default values that apply to all instances of the annotation, not a default value generated by a function that will be different for each annotation instance..21:53
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philiKONare you usnig zope.annotation.factory?21:57
philiKONthen why aren't you simply setting those default values in __init__?21:57
derek|laptopthat's a good question. the answer must be: because I was looking for something harder. :) I'll do that. Thanks, philiKON!21:58
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d2mbtw, where do zcml files inside a WSGIApplication object get their path information from ? in a first run i was forced to change all relative paths in .conf and .zcml files to absolute paths22:03
d2msetting sys.path is not good enough22:03
philiKONpaths are assumed to be relative22:04
philiKONin zcml22:04
philiKONrelative to a package, usually22:04
d2mthats a bit of a problem22:04
d2mok, maybe its the .conf files only that need abolute paths to e.g. site.zcml22:05
philiKONwell, or relative paths to cwd22:05
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jodokphiliKON: you mentioned something about 64bit python using double ram of 32bit python - what was the reason?22:21
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philiKONjim was that22:23
philiKONbut i can see why22:23
philiKONin python, every object is represented by a PyObject* pointer22:24
philiKONwhich is sizeof(int)22:24
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smgood morning all22:38
d2mhi sm22:38
smI'm having a serious problem with zope 3's tal in zope 2.10.322:38
smtal:content="structure var" seems to require that var be ascii, in z3 tal ?22:39
lurkersm, z3 zpt are unicode22:42
lurkerso if you pass string it will be converted, and ascii is the default converter22:42
smah.. how is the converter configured ?22:44
benjijodok: in some tests with a Zope 2 app we saw around an 80% increase of memory footprint when going from 32 to 64 bit22:45
jodokbenji: unfortunately i don't know enough what happens behind the (python) scenes22:46
jodokbut i'd like to know a little bit more :)22:47
benjiit's pretty simple really, pointers are twice as big and any app that is pointer-heavy (like CPython) will see large increases in memory usage22:48
jodokand they are bigger because they can address more memory, right?22:48
benjione thing we considered and tested (but have not yet done in production) is to run 32-bit apps on a 64-bit OS; if a single process doesn't need to access huge amounts of ram (or do 64-bit integer operations), you can get the best of both worlds22:49
benjiyou're probably thinking of the plugin for Zope 2 that gives basic monitoring info (memory usage, active connections, etc.); Jim recently started something like that for Zope 3 too (looking up URL)22:52
benjiI don't know if it's usable yet, but here it is:
* lurker grins sheepishly23:03
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jodok"started" - he created the directories23:03
benjijodok: heh :)23:04
jodokthat's what he mentioned - i guess the z2 version is somewhere in your svn23:04
benjiI don't believe it's public, so probably.23:05
benjilurker: I often type "ls" into my IRC client when I mean /who ;)23:08
benjiperhaps I need to make a fuse filesystem for IRC23:08
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smin #python they tell me the default system encoding used by unicode() is just a bad idea and will go away in python 3, and encoding should always be specified23:13
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benjism: I know next to nothing about unicode, but believe both those statements to be true.23:17
smthank you.. it's helpful to think this through23:17
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smthe reason I care is I'm trying to make zwiki work with both zope 2.9 and 2.10. The z3 tal in 2.10 calls unicode() using default encoding on my content.23:17
sm since I can't/may not influence that default encoding, it seems I should just ensure my content is unicode before tal sees it23:18
smbut only when the zope version is 2.10 or greater..23:18
benjiwhy not on z3 as well?23:19
smwell, z3 zwiki is a whole different codebase23:20
sm do you mean why not make the zope2 zwiki work on z3 also ? is that a sane thing to try ?23:20
smsurely not23:20
benjioh, I thought they were the same code23:27
smalas no, totally different projects23:28
smso: I would think that this should work: if ZOPEVERSION > 2.10: arg = unicode(arg,myencoding); template(self,REQUEST,option1=arg)23:33
smbut it does not. still getting that fricking unicodedecodeerror :)23:36
benjithis is where my statement of "I know next to nothing about unicode" comes back to help me and haunt you ;)23:39
pbugnism - any chance the error is coming from the line above: arg = unicode(arg,myencoding); ?23:40
pbugnithis tends to be my trouble - not knowning what encoding it is coming from23:41
pbugnior knowing23:41
smno, the conversion to unicode works23:41
smit's just when I call the template (and it applies the structure keyword to option1)23:41
pbugni'ascii' codec .... how do you alert it to the fact you already have unicode?  <tal:content="python: type(body)"/>23:47
pbugniyou want <type 'unicode'> there, i would expect23:48
pbugniand i'm guessing that isn't happening - thinks it's <type 'str'>23:48
smah-haaa.. the error is coming from another part of the template, using some other piece of data23:49
pbugnithat's good news :)23:49
smfortunately, I don't need to alert it that I'm giving it unicode - unicode(unicode()) seems to be a noop23:49
pbugniy - but unicode(ascii str) is not23:50
pbugnibefore you realized it was coming from a different part of the template, i assumed it was a type issue23:50
smyes, good news.. so I have to apply this same workaround anywhere I pass in data used with the structure keyword23:52
pbugnior tal:content='structure python:unicode(var)', right?23:52
pbugni< myencoding23:53
smyes, I think so. but I have to do it only for zope >= 2.1023:54
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smstructure python:preparefortal(var)23:56

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