IRC log of #zope3-dev for Sunday, 2007-05-06

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J1mTheuni, ayt?13:28
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J1mI might be able to hep with some svn manipulations.13:39
Theunican you manipulate svn to do everything by itself? ;)13:39
J1mI'll take:13:39
J1mif that will help.13:41
J1mI may run out of time though.13:41
J1mshall I?13:41
J1mTheuni, ?13:41
Theuniyes, thanks :)13:41
Theunibtw: any luck on the svn server upgrade?13:42
J1mOh, I forgot about that.13:42
J1mThanks for the reminder.13:42
J1mI'll try to remember to do it later.13:42
TheuniCool. Thanks.13:42
J1mFeel free to keep reminding me. :)13:42
J1mI guess today is probably a fairly good day to do it.13:43
TheuniThat remembered me of the introduction of buildbot.13:43
Theuni"so the guilty developer can be automatically harrassed without the need of human intervention"13:43
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J1mactually, given all the work you're doing, it might be best to wait a week for the svn upgrade.13:43
TheuniSure, it's not like its really urgent. Getting to the release is more important.13:44
J1myup, k13:44
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ChrisWhey all, where do the loggers configured in the eventlog section of Zope 3's zope.conf actually get instantiated and registered with the logging package?13:47
J1min the bowels of ZConfig.13:47
ChrisW(I'm getting MailingLogger to work with Zope 3, and writing doctests and unittests in the process, it's been quite educational :-) )13:48
J1mThe standard Python logger supportes email.13:48
ChrisWthat handler sucks ;-)13:49
J1mI thought there was already ZConfig support for it.13:49
J1mIN what way does it suck?13:49
J1mIt seems to work fine for me.13:49
ChrisWit doesn't have flood control, it doesn't have configurable subjects lines, doesn't set an X-Mailer header, ...13:49
J1mah, k13:49
ChrisWoh, and it's not unit tested13:50
ChrisWand has little documentation13:50
ChrisWanyway, MailingLogger's been around for 6 years now, and I finally wanted to use it outside of zope, so thought I'd bite the bullet, turn it into a python package, write unit tests, etc13:51
ChrisWit's also going to be my first venture into egg-based releases, having a, etc13:51
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ChrisWout of interest, do I need to do anything special in to make it zc.buildout friendly?13:52
J1mNo more than you would do to make it easy_install friendly.13:53
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ChrisWwell, I hope there's not much to do for that ;-) I'll be running from Philipp's section in his book...13:54
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J1mTheuni, fwiw, I made a template for svn projects.13:56
J1mIt might be useful.13:56
Theuniah, good.14:00
Theunii have a template for zope svn projects on my disk, but i didn't check it in as the manual projects where kind of a mess until now. some were partially ready, some had just the directories created etc.14:00
Theuniso i didn't find it toooo useful for automation but used it for manual copying.14:00
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J1mTheuni, ayt?15:06
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J1mSo if a package wasn;t in a release, you want to remove it from the Zope3 tree?15:06
TheuniThat's my understanding of the plan.15:07
J1mk, makes my job easier. :)15:07
J1mI have a feeling that it will annoy some folks.  But we'll see.15:08
TheuniWe can still add the externals back if someone really wants them15:08
TheuniI take it as a chance to lighten up the tree a bit ;)15:08
J1mI'm actually happy that people don't seem to be complaining about this effort.15:11
J1mI was afraid as we're maiking the tree pretty unattracive.15:11
J1mI guess people have had plenty of warning.15:12
TheuniDunno. srichter kind of stepped up yesterday, but was fine as long as the tree stays intact for now.15:12
TheuniIt looks a bit like the whole procedure of developing Zope 3 itself and writing applications based on this effort isn't clear to everyone yet.15:12
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J1m"stepped up"?  (That coloquialism is usually positive. Is that what you meant?)15:13
TheuniEspecially as there is no single "use this to get something similar like before" hint15:13
TheuniHe asked for assistance on how to deal with the new situation.15:13
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J1mYeah, it would be nice to have that.15:13
TheuniHe was fearing that we're putting people into an uncomfortable situation with no backwards compatibility.15:13
TheuniEspecially as the way to set up zope insteances has multiple spellings right now, depending on who you ask15:14
J1mIf we had a basic buildout that people could copy and adapt, I think that would go a long way.15:14
Theunisounds like that would be the point where something like paster could come in15:14
J1mHowever, I guess that the "official" way for people to start with Zope 3 should probably involve a release, rather than a checkout.15:15
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J1mYou mean paste.Deploy (?)15:15
Theuniand the release stays the same for now15:15
J1mMan. checkouts take a looooooooong time now.15:15
TheuniI'm not sure what I mean. I don't know paste but AFAIU you can use it for those kinds of templates.15:16
TheuniYou mean updates on the tree?15:16
J1mI mean doing a fresh cjeckout.15:16
J1mIt has been going for several minutes.15:16
TheuniUpdate takes about 1 minute for me.15:16
J1mWhile I've been talking to you.15:16
TheuniWhich is pretty long already, but srichter was kind of alright with that.15:17
TheuniHmm. Haven't timed a full checkout yet.15:17
J1mLike I said, the Zope 3 svn project is becoming close to useless.15:17
TheuniAnd you probably will have some benefit when you're in your office ;)15:17
J1mTrue.  Now I'm getting the true I18n experience. :)15:17
* Theuni hopes checkouts become faster with a local mirror in europe available.15:17
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J1mTheuni, I haven't been tracking the efforts to create egg-only buildouts.15:20
J1mHow close are we to having that?15:20
Theunidepends on what instance recipe you use15:21
Theunii guess, if i got your question right.15:21
* J1m wants to chat while waiting for this checkout ... and waiting ....15:21
TheuniI'm working on a project at gocept that already uses only eggs.15:21
TheuniThat's using the gocept.zope3instance recipe.15:21
J1mWhy does it deopend on the recipe?15:21
J1mWhy does it depend on the recipe?15:22
TheuniCan you re-phrase your original question? :)15:22
J1mIt would be good to have buildout.cfg that someone could copy and get a minimal working zope that they can add their projects to.15:23
J1mIt would also be nice to have a buildout.cfg or maybe even a checkout that gives them roughly the same app they get now with a checkout.15:24
J1mI wonder how close we are to either or both of those.15:24
TheuniRight. I didn't have time to continue what I started at pycon on that.15:24
J1mHas anyone else been working on that?15:24
J1mI'm guessing that the work to make the eggs usable is the main blocker for that.15:25
TheuniI could setup a buildout that almost does that but I haven't got an answer to the question how to hook up the ZCML.15:25
J1mand a lot of that work seems to have been done.15:25
Theuni(Using my instance recipe)15:25
J1mDo you mean that we don't have a replacement for package-includes?15:26
J1mPerhaps we should define entry points that specifically duplicate the package-includes functionality.  So people can get the same semantics if they want it.15:26
J1mI know that David Pratt would like that.15:27
TheuniI mean, what do you imagine should the semantics for adding your projects to the buildout be?15:27
Theunijust declare "use this egg" in the part's configuration?15:27
Theunithen entry points would be a nice thing.15:27
J1mWell, before there was zpkg plicit adding of slugs to package-includes.15:27
TheuniRight. That depended on using zpkg, I'm not sure anybody actually uses it.15:28
J1mso there could be a zcml directive that loaded all of the files specified in certain entry points.15:28
TheuniOtherwise it was a two-step process: add the code, add an include15:28
J1mThe checkout used it.15:28
J1mBasically, we could define slugs as entry points.15:29
TheuniEither a ZCML directive, or the recipe that configures the instance could do some introspection.15:29
J1mYeah, although I'm not crazy about the latter.  OTOH, I'm not crazy about package includes.15:29
J1mI guess it doesn't really matter.15:30
J1mI cab see the benefit of some simple automation for people who are just getting started.15:30
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J1mOh man, this is external hell.15:41
Theuniare you still checking out?15:41
J1mNo, Now I'm doing an svn up, after I moved those 3 projects.15:42
J1mYeah, the tree is prettty unusable now.15:43
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J1mTheuni, have you seen:15:57
J1m  File "", line 61, in ?15:58
J1m    result =
J1m  File "/Users/jim/p/z3/trunk/src/zope/testing/", line 271, in run15:58
J1m    failed = not run_with_options(options)15:58
J1m  File "/Users/jim/p/z3/trunk/src/zope/testing/", line 448, in run_with_options15:58
J1m    failures, errors)15:58
J1m  File "/Users/jim/p/z3/trunk/src/zope/testing/", line 652, in resume_tests15:58
J1m    for l in subout:15:58
J1mIOError: (0, 'Error')15:58
J1mRunning tests:15:58
J1m  Running in a subprocess.15:58
J1m  Set up in 1.092 seconds.15:58
J1m  Ran 2 tests with 0 failures and 0 errors in 0.021 seconds.15:58
J1m  Tear down in 0.002 seconds.15:58
J1mTraceback (most recent call last):15:58
J1m  File "", line 61, in ?15:58
J1m    result =
J1m  File "/Users/jim/p/z3/trunk/src/zope/testing/", line 271, in run15:58
J1m    failed = not run_with_options(options)15:58
J1m  File "/Users/jim/p/z3/trunk/src/zope/testing/", line 448, in run_with_options15:58
J1m    failures, errors)15:58
J1m  File "/Users/jim/p/z3/trunk/src/zope/testing/", line 652, in resume_tests15:58
J1m    for l in subout:15:58
J1mIOError: (0, 'Error')15:58
J1mdivide that by 2. :/15:58
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Theuniis that running the wsgi tests standalone?15:59
Theuniuh wait. that sounds more like a testrunner issue15:59
J1mNo, that's running all of the tests.15:59
J1mThat's the end of the output.15:59
J1mWell, yes, sort of.16:00
J1mHave you seen this before?16:00
Theunimaybe i've seen this. i've seen so many weird ways of the test runner to crash in the end lately that i can't remember anymore ;)16:00
J1mSatchit has.16:00
J1mHe says that if he doesn't run the twisted tests (not sure which ones) he doesn't see it.16:01
TheuniI need to get some food. I'll be back in 10-15 minutes.16:02
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J1mTheuni, the trunk tests now pass for me.17:11
Theunithanks for helping17:11
J1mThose 3 projects are "moved" although the destination projects aren't set up to run tests.17:11
J1mII thought was something I did.17:11
Theunimeaning the dependencies don't fit yet?17:11
J1mIt doesn't list any dependencies and I suspect that getting it to run in a separate project is going to take a bit of work.,17:12
J1mI'm also doubtful that it is still being used.17:12
J1mSince it records old-style functional tests.17:13
J1mRaw http requests and responses.17:13
Theunii'll give it a shot later17:13
Theunias this is only about keeping the status quo17:13
J1mI would maybe ask on the list if it is being used.17:13
J1mMaybe we can just retire it.17:14
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J1mI'll send a quick note.17:14
Theuniright. still it would be nice to retire it in a working state.17:14
J1mIf no one uses it?17:15
J1manyway, if you want to fool with it, go ahead.17:15
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J1mTheuni, ayt?17:30
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TheuniJ1m: yup18:31
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