| pcardune | dennis_: http://beta.carduner.net/wordpress/?p=15 | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| dennis_ | uh oh, emacs | 00:01 |
| dennis_ | and i only "sheepishly asked on irc" because the ILocatable you mentioned doesn't exist :)) (and yes I grepped first) | 00:01 |
| dennis_ | but thanks i will use ctags more :) | 00:01 |
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| X-scream | ehm, who uses emacs? :) | 00:02 |
| pbugni | who doesn't? | 00:02 |
| dennis_ | uh oh | 00:03 |
| benji | X-scream: not who you think! <wink> | 00:03 |
| X-scream | ;) | 00:03 |
| pcardune | dennis_: by sheepishly, I was referring to myself some months ago :) | 00:03 |
| pcardune | dennis_: there is a way to do it in vi to, but I forgot how when I started using emacs :) | 00:03 |
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| dennis_ | what is a recommended way to keep track of object permissions, where i remove a principal, I want the unset all the permissions that may exist on any object anywhere (in the annotations) .. or an efficient way to remove them all at once? | 01:34 |
| J1m | sadly, none of the current security policies support that use case. | 01:35 |
| J1m | If you remove the user from the user folder, they won't have access, but the grants will still be in the database. | 01:35 |
| dennis_ | my small worry is re-use of the principal id resulting in accidental access, bigger worry is data which never goes away | 01:36 |
| J1m | yup | 01:38 |
| tjs | does zope3 handle stdout specially ? | 01:39 |
| J1m | no | 01:39 |
| tjs | I'm trying to print inside a thread Ive created and am getting nothing on the console | 01:39 |
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| tjs | but Its being run | 01:39 |
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| tjs | ok | 01:40 |
| J1m | are you using zopectl start? (or some such) | 01:40 |
| tjs | runzope | 01:40 |
| J1m | Hm, that's odd. I'm pretty sure that we don't much w stdout. | 01:41 |
| J1m | I suspect your thread isn't running. | 01:41 |
| J1m | Threads are tricky. :) | 01:41 |
| tjs | aye | 01:41 |
| tjs | :) | 01:42 |
| tjs | I've just been trying to get some normality for worker threads | 01:42 |
| tjs | http://rafb.net/p/L37GHN24.html | 01:42 |
| tjs | ^^ with these two helper funcs | 01:42 |
| tjs | if anyone could just cast an eye over it to see if there is anything I should be doing that Ive missed? | 01:42 |
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| tjs | they are very short | 01:43 |
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| J1m | That looks OK. I don't see any prints there. | 01:44 |
| tjs | yeh the prints are in the method that calls that, I just thought while I had someones brief attention I'd get some eyes on it, while I'm online this channel is -very- quiet | 01:45 |
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| tjs | (in AU) | 01:45 |
| tjs | thanks btw :) | 01:45 |
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| tjs | kinda new to z3 | 01:45 |
| J1m | I would run your thread logic from a debug prompt so you can see errors and can even use the debugger. | 01:45 |
| J1m | debugzope | 01:46 |
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| tjs | I'll give that a go, thanks :) | 01:46 |
| J1m | I guess you're up really early. | 01:47 |
| tjs | my day is just starting | 01:47 |
| tjs | 8:45am | 01:47 |
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| J1m | Hm, k | 01:47 |
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| J1m | Time zones are so confusing. They're like threads. | 01:48 |
| tjs | aye | 01:48 |
| tjs | oh, while someone else is alive :) I did have one other question | 01:48 |
| tjs | I'm a twisted person, now working with z3, is there any reason why I can't just import the twisted reactor and callFromThread() stuff? has anyone tried that? | 01:49 |
| J1m | That should work. | 01:50 |
| tjs | ooh excellent :) | 01:50 |
| J1m | assuming you're using the twisted server. | 01:50 |
| tjs | twisted is the default ? | 01:50 |
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| J1m | web2 hasn't been very stable sadly, so many of us have been using zserver in production. | 01:50 |
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| J1m | yes, twisted is the default, which is rather cruel. | 01:51 |
| tjs | ah | 01:51 |
| tjs | you should have a chat with dried on #twisted | 01:51 |
| tjs | tell him you want some stability | 01:51 |
| tjs | he is probably tinkering for tinkerings sake | 01:51 |
| tjs | :/ | 01:51 |
| J1m | yeah, I should. :) | 01:52 |
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| tjs | web2 is old enough to be mature now days | 01:52 |
| tjs | its dissapointing its still a moving target | 01:52 |
| J1m | He'll probably ask for specifics and all I can say is that Zope3 tends to fall over in production in various ways when using twisted. | 01:52 |
| J1m | which isn't very specific. | 01:52 |
| tjs | J1m: I'd like to think the twisted community could be helpful, that z3 uses twisted can only benifit the twisted project | 01:53 |
| J1m | I have the impression that web2 doesn't get a lot of respect in the twisted community, although that may have changed. | 01:53 |
| J1m | well, we do. :) | 01:53 |
| tjs | J1m: there is a long toolchain built on t.web | 01:53 |
| J1m | I wonder if divmod uses web2. | 01:54 |
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| tjs | not for their web app stuff | 01:54 |
| J1m | When they do (or some other major twisted user does) I'll feel a lot better. | 01:54 |
| tjs | they probably mix and match to implement their file upload stuff | 01:54 |
| tjs | but nevow is a web1 thing | 01:54 |
| J1m | so I wonder if anyone but us uses web2. | 01:55 |
| tjs | I use web2 | 01:55 |
| J1m | or if anyone is using it in real production applications. | 01:55 |
| tjs | apple inc. ship web2 with their next OS | 01:55 |
| J1m | do you use it other than through zope? | 01:55 |
| tjs | yes | 01:55 |
| J1m | wow | 01:55 |
| tjs | do you remember a project called nufox? | 01:56 |
| J1m | well, that is encouraging, I guess. | 01:56 |
| J1m | no | 01:56 |
| tjs | it was small, and short lived, it was a t.web xul server that used comet | 01:56 |
| J1m | Python XUL toolkit? | 01:56 |
| tjs | yeh | 01:56 |
| tjs | I've recently started rewriting it with web2 | 01:56 |
| J1m | ah | 01:57 |
| J1m | what does Apple use web2 for? | 01:57 |
| tjs | their personal dav server | 01:57 |
| tjs | its all twisted | 01:57 |
| J1m | As an apple shareholder, I don't know whether to be encouraged or afraid. :) | 01:57 |
| tjs | haha :) | 01:57 |
| J1m | Interesting. | 01:58 |
| J1m | I don't really know whether the problems we've had were in web2 or in the wsgi integration. | 01:58 |
| J1m | I suppose it's possible that we screwed something up in the integration. | 01:58 |
| tjs | I take it you are Jim Fulton? | 01:59 |
| J1m | Yup. | 01:59 |
| tjs | do you speak with glyph ? | 01:59 |
| J1m | Yeah, mostly at pycon. | 01:59 |
| J1m | Pretty much exclusively at pycon. | 01:59 |
| J1m | and occassionally on #twisted. | 02:00 |
| J1m | I'm becoming a twisted programmer. :) | 02:00 |
| tjs | I'd probably suggest chatting with him about the stability of web2, he can push things to completion | 02:00 |
| J1m | k, will do. | 02:00 |
| tjs | really, twisted has had some bad press with people using it in big apps and doing it badly | 02:01 |
| tjs | XEN hypervisor is a case in point | 02:01 |
| tjs | I'd hate for z3 to be another | 02:01 |
| J1m | I'm pretty happy with twisted at the netwoprking library level. | 02:01 |
| tjs | not saying your doing it badly, but sounds like you need some cooperation from the other end | 02:01 |
| tjs | yeh | 02:02 |
| J1m | I recently rewrote Zope Replication Services using twisted. | 02:02 |
| J1m | And I plan to rewrite ZEO on it. | 02:02 |
| tjs | ono, you have the bug now ;) | 02:02 |
| J1m | The main appeal to me is testability. | 02:02 |
| tjs | thats how it starts, a little twisted here, a little there | 02:03 |
| tjs | :D | 02:03 |
| J1m | I can write decent tests that don't use the network and thus often don't need wacky threads and processes. | 02:03 |
| tjs | well if you like testability, trail made a massive milestone last night :) | 02:03 |
| J1m | although the Twisted testing support could use a lot of improvement. | 02:03 |
| J1m | Oh, how so? | 02:04 |
| tjs | jml and iratsu got it running tests in parallel | 02:04 |
| tjs | reduces the twisted tests from 400s to about 30, on one machine | 02:04 |
| * J1m yawns | 02:04 | |
| J1m | I care a lot more about test readability than execution time. | 02:04 |
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| J1m | I haven't had any temptation to use trial. | 02:05 |
| J1m | I like doctests. | 02:05 |
| tjs | well I think trial is heading in the right direction, one thing I've -really- found lacking writing zope3 tests in the past few weeks are some of trials features like the ability to raise TODO from a test | 02:05 |
| J1m | I'm not familiar with that. | 02:06 |
| J1m | What is that used for> | 02:06 |
| J1m | ? | 02:06 |
| tjs | it basically marks the test as not being implemented, if you are doing test driven development it lets you say 'this is a test that is expected to fail' and it doesn't kill buildbots etc. | 02:07 |
| J1m | Hm. | 02:07 |
| tjs | when it passes it prints unexpected succes | 02:07 |
| tjs | and you go remove the raise todo | 02:07 |
| tjs | its very handy | 02:08 |
| J1m | I know some test frameworks have something like this. | 02:08 |
| J1m | Somebody who cares about it should add it to ours. :) | 02:08 |
| tjs | if you have twisted installed, just type "trial twisted" and watch the output | 02:08 |
| tjs | I'm sure there will be some in there | 02:08 |
| tjs | J1m: well now I'm working at a zope3 house I should probably start contributing something.. | 02:09 |
| J1m | Our test runner has evolved over several years. It has a lot of nice features. | 02:10 |
| J1m | OTOH, I'm into owning less. | 02:10 |
| J1m | I've heard that nose is very pluggable. | 02:10 |
| tjs | well I think stdlib unittest is getting an overhaul soon | 02:11 |
| J1m | I wish I had enough time to investigate whether what we do could be implemented as nose plugins. | 02:11 |
| J1m | yeah, I guess I heard that a while ago. | 02:11 |
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| romanofski | moin :) | 09:30 |
| huajie | good morning romanofski ! | 09:32 |
| * romanofski waves | 09:35 | |
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| ccomb | Hi, juste a legal question I don't remember : is ZPL 2.1 compatible with GPL ? Is there any issue distributing zope3 software under the GPL ? Or do you advice to keep the ZPL ? | 11:23 |
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| d2m | ccomb: http://www.zope.org/Resources/ZPL | 11:26 |
| ccomb | d2m thanks, this is clearly stated. | 11:29 |
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| huajie | if I run zope from the SVN, where should I checkout z3c.menu so that it can be found ? | 11:42 |
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| baijum | huajie, anywhere in Python path | 12:01 |
| baijum | but include ZCML slug, if there is any | 12:02 |
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| huajie | baijum: slug :? | 12:08 |
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| baijum | create a etc/package-includes/z3c-configure.zcml with content: <include package="z3c.menu"> | 12:11 |
| huajie | baijum: I see thx | 12:13 |
| kleist | huajie: i have also been wondering about the term "slug"... i think it's a pun, referring to "multicellular assembly" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pseudoplasmodium | 12:14 |
| kleist | or? | 12:15 |
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| huajie | kleist: interesting | 12:29 |
| kleist | huajie: english is my second language, so actually i have no idea... that's just a personal theory | 12:30 |
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| huajie | kleist: english is my fourth language so I know even less | 12:32 |
| bigkevmcd | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slug_(typesetting) | 12:36 |
| kleist | bigkevmcd: ah thanks, now i know what it is... a tiny thin something | 12:40 |
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| * baijum also know what "slug" is, he used "ZCML slug" without fully understanding the meaning ;) | 12:45 | |
| baijum | s/know/now know/ | 12:46 |
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| dennis_ | I get a lot of: ERROR QueueProcessorThread Error while sending mail from .. to .. , File "/usr/local/Zope-3.4.0a1/lib/python/zope/sendmail/delivery.py", line 202, in run, unlink(filename), OSError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '....../mail-queue/new/<message_id>' .. and then I receive the mail twice or thrice. Using the queued mail delivery utility | 13:29 |
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| dennis_ | hmm I have a single mailer and a mailqueue, yet according to my postfix logs, zope makes 2 simultanious connections, delivers the same message (same message-ID), en then one thread will delete the message and the other will complain that it can not delete the message anymore | 14:12 |
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| CrippsFX | srichter: why is the zope.app.container.browser.contents.Contents class the one that rml2pdf needs to convert to a PDF ... what would I do in a custom class to have my rml file rendered as a PDF? | 15:22 |
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| srichter | it is just a convenience, because the class does what I needed | 15:23 |
| srichter | just write your own browserview class | 15:23 |
| srichter | or none at all, if you have no dynamic data | 15:23 |
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| CrippsFX | srichter: kay. Thanks. Now I know what I have to do when we get back from our meeting :) | 15:29 |
| X-scream | anyone got the 2nd ed. of Philipps book? | 15:31 |
| norro | X-scream yes | 15:33 |
| X-scream | how do you like it? | 15:33 |
| norro | very much. It has a clear structure and i really ike to work with it | 15:34 |
| norro | like | 15:34 |
| X-scream | I was struggling with old getting-started tutorials a few days but gave up and ordered the book | 15:34 |
| X-scream | sounds promising, can't wait :) | 15:35 |
| benji | X-scream: I'm curious about whether or not you looked at my (admittedly very short) quick start guide. | 15:35 |
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| X-scream | yes I did read it, that was one of the better ones | 15:37 |
| X-scream | but it's very brief :) | 15:37 |
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| benji | and now slightly out of date :( | 15:38 |
| X-scream | I'd like to know more details and how you "really" work with it to make a webpage. So Philipp's book with a continously evolving example app sounds very interesting | 15:39 |
| X-scream | benji: yeah, i got some warnings with your code.. | 15:39 |
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| X-scream | this is really an issue for the newbies, getting beyond the simple helloworld.. | 15:44 |
| X-scream | so, when I finally feel comfortable with Zope3 I'm going to write a nice tutorial.. because I really feel the pain and frustration of the zopenewbies | 15:45 |
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| dennis_ | argg if I have a debug prompt open I have another mail thread running, and they (my debug and main zope one) are competing for the same maildir, brrreeegh | 15:47 |
| dennis_ | well at least it's solved :) | 15:47 |
| dennis_ | X-scream you will love the book, and get very far, and then switch to the z3c line of thought (form, pagelest), and relearn again from scratch, but the book will be great :) | 15:48 |
| X-scream | oh, ok :) | 15:49 |
| sweetlove | Smilexx | 15:49 |
| sweetlove | cho em vao de | 15:49 |
| sweetlove | anh oi | 15:49 |
| X-scream | what's z3c? :O | 15:49 |
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| X-scream | form and widget framework? | 15:50 |
| sweetlove | em muon vao au de hack anh ah` | 15:50 |
| sweetlove | cho em vao voi | 15:50 |
| sweetlove | em xin ma` | 15:51 |
| dennis_ | kind of like addons, which do things a little bit differently, much more than just (but also including) forms and widgets | 15:51 |
| dennis_ | but don't worry about those yet | 15:51 |
| dennis_ | read the book :) | 15:51 |
| X-scream | yep! | 15:51 |
| sweetlove | yes | 15:51 |
| sweetlove | I want enter au | 15:52 |
| sweetlove | now | 15:52 |
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| sweetlove | please | 15:52 |
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| sweetlove | ec | 15:53 |
| sweetlove | free and see | 15:53 |
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| X-scream | :D | 15:55 |
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| CrippsFX | yeah the book is pretty good ... I'm after reading the first 2 sections of the book about 3 times ... it's really helpful ... then you can start perusing the Zope source code and figure out how to do stuff :) | 16:28 |
| CSWookie | Which Book? | 16:29 |
| CrippsFX | CSWookie: Phil's book | 16:29 |
| CSWookie | It's a good-un alright. | 16:29 |
| CrippsFX | you can say that again ;) | 16:29 |
| CSWookie | I wish he had a companion book the got really dirty about what all the zcml directives do. | 16:30 |
| CrippsFX | although, I must say I'm looking forward to the third edition | 16:30 |
| CSWookie | And went over Sources in greater detail. And formlib. | 16:30 |
| CrippsFX | the zcml API in the back of phil's book isn't a bad resource ... | 16:30 |
| CSWookie | CrippsFX: No it's not. | 16:30 |
| CrippsFX | ooh ... formlib is definitely something that needs to be exposed more. | 16:30 |
| CSWookie | But it's just an Appendix, and zcml is full of disgusting magic. | 16:31 |
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| CrippsFX | well, I found it useful anyways | 16:31 |
| CSWookie | It's very useful, but I want more depth. | 16:31 |
| CrippsFX | yeah ... there is the magic thing ... generally regarded as bad ;) | 16:31 |
| CSWookie | True. | 16:31 |
| CrippsFX | what was the companion book you used, anyway? | 16:31 |
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| CSWookie | But I maintain code written by people who liked browser pages. | 16:32 |
| CrippsFX | browser pages are good because they're simple ... but formlib is amazing because it's flexible ;) | 16:32 |
| CSWookie | At some point I'll give myself leisure to swim through the source code for them and figure out what they do. | 16:32 |
| CSWookie | browser:pages are horrible because they add magical mixin classes to your code. | 16:33 |
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| CrippsFX | mmm ... this is true ... but it is easier for the newbs ... as long as they don't worry about *how* it works. | 16:34 |
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| benji | www.python.org works for me | 17:23 |
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| CrippsFX | ha ha! I win ... I have the pdftemplate package now generating pdfs for me ... apparently rml.py doesn't like parsing "<? xml ... ?>", but DOES like parsing "<?xml ... ?>" | 18:23 |
| CrippsFX | ...doesn't help that it's an invalid tag ... *sigh* where did I get the idea that it would work? | 18:25 |
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| CrippsFX | srichter: alright, I have my BrowserView class written, and my configuration appears to be correct, but when I try to view the pdf, I get a blank pdf ... I call the pdfview from root/container/object01/object01.pdf which should get the information from object01 and insert it into the rml (via tals) ... | 19:15 |
| CrippsFX | when I neglect to put __call__ = something in my View class, I get the blank pdf, but when I use __call__ = ViewPageTemplateFile('templates/object01.pt') I get an html view of the post-processed xml. | 19:16 |
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| CrippsFX | here is the code that I'm using for the BrowserView for z3c.pdftemplate I *must* be missing something becuase the only results I'm getting are either a 0 byte pdf or the template file being displayed in html ... if somebody who has more experience with z3c.pdftemplate than I do could take a look and point out my error, I would be very grateful. | 19:57 |
| CrippsFX | er ... helps to post the link: http://pastebin.ca/601624 | 19:57 |
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| faassen | is there any equivalent of Zope 2's PathIndex in zope 3? | 20:32 |
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| hazmat | faassen, re hurry.workflow.. is there any particular reason iworkflows are utilities instead of adapters? | 21:52 |
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| faassen | hazmat: what would they adapt? | 21:55 |
| faassen | hazmat: I guess it might be possible fo rthem to adapt the workflowables, in which case you could have separate workflows in parallel, at least you'd be closer to it. | 21:56 |
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| hazmat | faassen, the separate parallel workflows i solved different so the annotation storages didn't collide | 22:01 |
| hazmat | but i have multiple objects in the site, subject to different workflows, and the utility based workflow, really only allows one workflow in the site | 22:01 |
| faassen | right. | 22:02 |
| faassen | hazmat: anyway, you could try it out on a branch. one issue is if we make it an adapter we'll break backwards compatibility. | 22:03 |
| hazmat | so switching iworkflow to an adapter would allow the multiple workflows concurrently within a site, just curious if there was a reason it wasn't done that way previously.. and if patches for such would be accepted, or if i should just layer on top | 22:03 |
| faassen | hazmat: I'm not too hung up about backwards compat, but at least we need to be aware of it. | 22:03 |
| faassen | hazmat: patches would be accepted, if they include tests. and we need a story for backwards compatibility. | 22:04 |
| hazmat | i could build in compatiblity without too many problems | 22:04 |
| hazmat | queryAdapter -> fallback getUtility | 22:04 |
| faassen | hazmat: right, that might indeed work well enough. | 22:04 |
| faassen | hazmat: anyway, I'd accept a patch if it extended the doctest with a new chapter on multiple workflows. (i.e. parallel workflows on an object and multiple workflows per site) | 22:05 |
| faassen | that would indeed be quite useful. :) | 22:05 |
| hazmat | cool | 22:05 |
| faassen | hazmat: what are you using it for? | 22:05 |
| hazmat | faassen, getpaid z3 ecommerce system.. finance/fufillment workflows on orders, fulfimment workflows on items, shipments, etc. | 22:06 |
| faassen | using it in z2? | 22:06 |
| faassen | or is it zope 3? | 22:06 |
| hazmat | yup.. zope 2.9 even.. workflow is actually the heart of the system | 22:06 |
| faassen | I thought getpaid was plone stuff. | 22:06 |
| hazmat | the core is pure zope3 | 22:06 |
| faassen | anyway, nice. :) | 22:06 |
| hazmat | i had to do some minor compatiblity for annotation package location changes, but outside of that its worked great, thanks for writing it, having a simple workflow engine to use has been great | 22:07 |
| faassen | you're welcome. it's good it's found some use outside of the document library. | 22:08 |
| faassen | and happy to receive improvements to it, might be useful to future projects for myself. :) | 22:08 |
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