IRC log of #zope3-dev for Monday, 2007-07-16

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romanofskimoin :)09:19
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wiggyfunny how there is no zope-dev or zope2-dev :)16:34
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mgedminzope.testing's changelog says "At verbosity-level 1, dots are not output continuously, without any line breaks."17:42
mgedminthis seems to have been reverted since17:42
mgedminany idea why?17:42
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CSWookieschwendinger: J1m was seeking you on wombat.17:43
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mgedminchrisw reverted that in rev 66354, why?17:46
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projekt01philiKON, ayt?18:42
projekt01J1m, is there a windows recipt for build a zope3 instance?18:45
J1mprojekt01, no.18:45
J1mThere should be, but I haven't had time.18:45
projekt01I have to make it working for lovely systems, can you give me some hints how to do it?18:46
J1m(iow, it hasn't been a high enough priority.)18:46
projekt01for me it is ;-)18:46
J1mwell, you need the moral equiv of zdaemon.18:47
J1mwhich will involve services.18:47
projekt01Same as we used in zope instance for windows, right?18:48
J1mHano Slichting (who's name I probably just butchered) has something for Zope 2.18:49
* theuni hints: tThe unbutchered name is Hanno Schlichting ;)18:50
projekt01Ok, I hope I can do it tomorrow. thanks18:50
wiggyor hannosch18:50
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projekt01I also used a own variant of the windows script for our z3 projects, I guess this will fit. But I have no idea what to do, that this get installed by egss ;-)18:52
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pcardunephiliKON: is there a page with more info on using zopeproject?  and if not - let's make one!21:27
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philiKON_pcardune: i know that isn't enough23:20
philiKON_i will write more23:20
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pcardunephiliKON: maybe it would be alright just to have zopeproject generate a README.txt with some "default instructions" for using the application in question - including things like building eggs23:21
pcardunethat would be cool23:21
edgordonthat would have saved me a bit of time this morning23:24
philiKONnot a bad idea, though faassen seems to think that these READMEs will just rod and suggest a false level of documentation23:26
faassenperhaps we could create a 'zopeproject.txt'?23:27
faassenor possibly even an INSTALL.txt, with basic buildout instructions?23:27
edgordonyeah, i think a webpage is preferable.23:28
faassenbut yeah, I think people don't tend to remove autogenerated .txt files and then when you click on them you're in for a disappointment.23:28
philiKONINSTALL.txt might be ok23:28
philiKONedgordon: i'm looking into improving the cheeseshop page23:29
philiKONedgordon: i'm wondering, what specific bits were you missing?23:29
philiKONthis could help me documenting the right things23:29
edgordonwell, i guess i am pretty behind on stuff, so i had a lot of questions23:29
edgordonthe first thing that got me was 'where is package-includes'23:30
* edgordon also, in my buildout, my default python path was loading above all the new ones (buildout-egg23:30
edgordonso, in a few cases, i had older versions of software, that were incompatible23:31
edgordonfrom looking around though, it seems like the buildout/eggs documentation is lacking, and that sorta affects zopeproject23:33
edgordoncause most of my questions were buildout/eggs related, and weren't specific to zopeproject23:33
edgordonwhat is the intended audience for it?23:33
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philiKONedgordon: sorry, was busy23:42
philiKONback now23:42
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philiKONzopeproject's intent is to basically replace mkzopeinstance and the whole instance stuff23:42
edgordonanyways, for me it was my first stab at buildout, outside of just easy_install stuff23:42
philiKONso, it's basically for everybody23:42
philiKONi see23:42
philiKONwell, i clearly discourage installing zope in the global site-packages23:43
philiKONnot only i, that is23:43
philiKONthe package-includes crap is gone :)23:43
philiKONpackage-includes was a stupid idea, really23:43
edgordonwell, i got it working fine now. so, it must be doing something right23:43
philiKONand it was the #1 hurdle for all z3 newbies23:43
philiKONnot once have i given a training where package-includes wouldn't confuse people23:44
edgordonreally? i never really had a problem with it. reminded me of how debian handles apache2 virtual sites23:44
philiKONso, what you do is when your application depends on another package: you add it to your package's configure.zcml23:44
philiKONthat way, this dependency is actually expressed in your application23:45
philiKONand not in this package-includes thing that probably isn't even version controlled23:45
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edgordonis there a way to change the buildout script so that the system python path goes after the buildout-eggs directory, so that preinstalled software won't get in the way?23:46
edgordonseems like a lot of people who install this might have installed some of the zope packages before23:46
benjiedgordon: it is recommended that you always use a "clean" python with your buildouts (one that has nothing installed in it), not a system python23:47
philiKONedgordon: right, what benji says. also, you can say  zopeproject --newer23:47
edgordonoh, ok23:47
philiKONwhich will check if there are newer eggs than the ones you already have23:47
edgordoni guess, as part of the readme, it might be nice to have a sort of man page for the different options for starting/maintaining the project23:49
philiKONgood point23:51
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