IRC log of #zope3-dev for Thursday, 2007-08-02

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edgordoni saw that. i just thought it was odd that it was only there, while most of the other packages had made their way to cheeseshop. just wanted to make sure it was still in use00:04
philiKON_the availability on the cheeseshop isn't representative atm00:04
philiKON_something which should change soon00:04
philiKON_now that we have ppix00:04
philiKON_and no longer need to maintain
wiggyhas ppix been properly accepted by now?00:05
philiKON_as far as i could tell, the response was positive00:06
philiKON_it seems that MvL would like to include it into the cheeseshop proper00:06
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wiggyas soon as he has time, which is somewhere 2008?00:25
philiKON_well, no, he would like to *see* it integrated... :)00:27
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philiKON_nathany: re cc.gettext: have you considered using the pygettext module to do the work, rather than forking a process?01:19
nathanyphiliKON_: I thought there was a python way to do it, but couldn't find it in the 30 seconds i spent looking01:20
nathanyis that part of python or zope?01:20
philiKON_apparently it's part of python even:
philiKON_except that only seems to provide the read api01:21
philiKON_not necessarily the msgfmt stuff01:21
philiKON_nathany: you want this:
philiKON_god bless hannosch :)01:21
nathanyah, cool01:22
nathanygreat, thanks philiKON_01:22
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nathanyif i my recipe has a dependency (ie, python-gettext), is adding it to install_requires enough to get it on the python path @ buildout time?01:29
nathany(rephrased, it doesn't seem to be enough -- am i missing something?)01:29
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philiKON_nathany: the recipe should state it in its own install_requires01:34
philiKON_which should be enough01:34
nathanyphiliKON_: hrm; that's what I did, but it still complains; i'm doing some more looking01:35
philiKON_hmm, sounds like a bug in zc.buildout then01:35
nathanyoh, weird01:35
nathanynope, nevermind... outdated example in the python-gettext stuff01:35
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philiKON_whoever invented to use 'self' as a marker?02:45
pbugnisome silly java programmer, i'm sure :)02:46
pbugniof course, it dates further back than java - context?02:47
philiKON_i'm talking about    getattr(self, key, self) is not self02:48
philiKON_this backfires when self.key is self02:48
philiKON_(which you may have to do for BBB sometimes)02:48
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fcorreaHey there. Is there any event that is sent upon error? I need to write a subscriber for it....if not, what is the top level interface for sending a custom event?05:07
fcorreaI was looking at IException but not sure if its enough though05:08
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romanofskimoin :)09:57
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timteWould it be possible to distribute zope clients to nontrusted parties? Is it possible to make this safe, preventing them from modifying the zope cient and do any writes they want to ZEO?12:38
bigkevmcdI'd say no12:41
bigkevmcdthey could always install another zeo client, and connect to the supplied zeo12:41
bigkevmcdas long as they have a username...12:41
timteyeah, probably it's not possible to verify the client12:47
bigkevmcdthere are too many ways to get at a Data.fs12:49
bigkevmcdyou could copy it and open it in a non-Zeo zope instance12:50
bigkevmcdand set the inituser, which would allow you to change the password12:50
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goschtlhi has anybody knowledge of the package
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zagyz3c.form doesn't really work with zc.sourcefactory, yet,...14:05
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filI have an old zope2 system that acts as a front-end to a psql database, and I thought I'd use updating it as an excuse to look at zope3, but I seem to be falling at the first fence, since setting up a Psycopg DA instance results in complaints about tzinfo being an int17:25
filshould I even be using Psycopg? and if so how do I shut it up about tzinfo?17:26
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fil(BTW the Psycopg connection is clearly vaguely working, as I can get it to complain if I specify non-existant tables in selects, say)17:27
edgordoni have seen that error but i can't remember how i get of it17:28
edgordonbut i do think psycopg is the way to go17:28
edgordoni haven't had any trouble on that end of it, but it does always seem to be an ordeal to setup17:28
filmy somewhat clueless attempt to track it down left me with the impression that I'd probably failed to set up a system-wide connection between the OS's timezone, and the python/zope's instance of tzinfo17:30
filbut I really don't know my way around python (I gave up on this aplication the first time round becasue zope2 seemed documented on the basis that one thought in python, and was the author of zope ;-)17:31
edgordoni don't remember having to do anything like that17:32
filok, well that's good -- in case it helps, the exact error I'm seeing is:17:33
filThu Aug 2 15:22:29 2007    phil, zope.manager, Manager,     TypeError: tzinfo argument must be None or of a tzinfo subclass, not type 'int'17:33
edgordonare you using sqlos?17:36
filnot as far as I know -- I've just installed zope3 and python-psycopg packages on a debian etch system17:37
rocky|awayhey i'm just getting started with zc.buildout ... is there any way to say that my buildout should include everything (all parts, etc) of a third-party buildout but add more ? in an effort to not duplicate stuff?17:37
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wiggyextends = xxx.cfg17:38
rockyso that means i'd have to check out both buildouts and then make buildout #2 reference buildout #1's xxx.cfg using that syntax?17:39
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wiggyoh, really different buildouts? no17:47
wiggyyou write recipes if you want to reuse17:47
philiKONwiggy: i think rocky really did mean the extends= thing18:02
wiggythe 'check out both buildouts' makes me suspect he didn't18:03
edgordondoes the add menu not check preconditions? it seems to work when i uses contains(), but when i use my precondition, it just shows every addable item, but then my precondition correctly returns an invalid error when i try to add an invalid item.18:03
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timte"The required version of setuptools (>=0.6c6) is not available, and can't be installed while this script is running."18:57
timteWhy can't it be installed? Do I have to install a more recent setuptools in system python?18:58
timtethis is buildout throwing the error btw18:58
mgedminI used easy_install to get a newer version of setuptools (in /usr/local, 'cause I'm tidy about my system) and buildout stopped complaining18:59
timteyeah I can do that, but I hoped there was something else I could do19:00
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nathanyis there an attribute on a zope.i18n.locale to determine if the locale is RTL or LTR?19:02
mgedminI'd like to know why buildout wants that version specifically, but that's just idle curiosity19:03
mgedminI assume there's a good reason19:03
mgedminnathany: no idea, sorry19:03
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nathanyfound it -- request.locale.orientation19:05
nathany.lines or .characters19:05
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faassenJ1m: J1m :)20:52
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faassenJ1m: what's up?20:53
J1mdid you see the email I just sent?20:53
faassenJ1m: to where? to me?20:53
J1mI looked for you here first, but you weren't here.20:53
J1myes you20:53
faassenah, there it is.20:53
J1mI was wondering how martian was coming along.20:53
faassenmartian is not really the place that should do generate actions. it's up to the users of martian to generate those actions.20:53
faassenand Grok at this point still doesn't generate proper actions.20:54
faassenbut martian is really zope independent.20:54
J1mhm, ok20:54
faassenit's the thing that goes through code and triggers side effects, which may be CA action registrations.20:54
faassenJ1m: what are you looking for, though?20:54
J1mI want to DRI without having to swallow grok.20:55
faassenJ1m: I was thinking we could try just generating actions compatible with the z3 ones, and use the same what are they called.. the conflict detection thingers.20:55
faassenJ1m: distinguishers. something like that. :)20:55
faassenJ1m: discriminators, right.20:55
faassendiscriminators. :)20:55
faassenI got it!20:55
faassenI can read jimonese.20:55
faassenhas the martian doctest.20:56
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faassenanyway, so it depends on what you're looking for. if you are looking for something that can dig up classes and instances from code and then do things.20:56
faassenthen Martian's your alien.20:56
faassenif you need to look up things that implement particular interfaces, Martian isn't your alien, but it'd be easy to convince him.20:57
J1msp sounds like something I should build on.20:57
J1mso sounds like something I should build on.20:57
faassenI hope you can.20:57
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faassenanyway I guess the best thing to decide that is to read Martian's readme.20:58
J1manother option is to have decorators scribble into a data structure in the module namespace.20:58
J1mwhich would be easier to find.20:58
faassenright. we do that in some cases in grok too.20:58
faassenand martian can grok modules too.20:58
J1mI'm a little nervous about importing modules implicitly.20:58
faassenusing a GlobalGrokker.20:59
faassenyeah, that's a risk, though so far we haven't had anyone have trouble with it with grokked code.20:59
J1mI'd sort of like to have a gesture in zcml that says "look in these modules".20:59
faassenthat'd be easy to build on top of martian.20:59
J1mBut I haven't thought about it much.20:59
faassenjust use ModuleGrokker.21:00
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J1mBut if I did that and if the decorators scribbled in a single data structure, I wouldn't really need or necessarily want martian.21:00
faassensure, if you'd only use decorators to scribble into a data structure you might not want to.21:00
faassenbut it's nice to know about inheritance and classes.21:01
J1mIf you say so. :)21:01
faassenwell, you could have a base class, say, grok.View21:01
faassenand a subclass, say, grok.Form21:01
J1muh huh21:01
faassenand then you'd like grok.View to have a grokker that registers the view and grok.Form to do the form stuff.21:01
J1mJim *smash* inheritence!21:02
* faassen grins.21:02
faasseneverything in moderation. :)21:02
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faassenanyway, even if you use interfaces.21:02
J1mThat's not what I was thinking of.21:03
faassenyou might still want to know about class structures on which these interfaces are used on.21:03
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faassenanyway, decorators that scribble into the module's data structure will help, but only with functions.21:03
J1mright, until Python 3 (or 2.6). In the mean time, I'd use advisers.21:04
faassenanyway, for classes I think using advisers that scribble into the module is a bit redundant.21:05
faassenthe object you want to do things for is right there, it's class.21:05
faassenit's the class.21:05
faassenyou're likely going to end up asking it things anyway.21:05
* J1m shrugs21:06
faassenso why not have the adviser scribble a bit onto the class and then find the class directly.21:06
J1mBecause I don't like the idea of rumaging around in the module.21:06
* J1m hates sniffing21:06
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faassenokay, but frequently you want the result of the adviser action also to influence the subclasses.21:07
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faassenlike, imagine you said grok.require('some.permission') on your page.21:08
faassenit'd be nice if a subclass of that page also got that bit.21:08
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J1mIf you say so.21:08
faassenanyway, I'll leave you to invent any wheels you like. :)21:09
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J1mYou can ignore my email now. :)21:11
faassenand if you can extract actions from ZCML implementation so we can reuse them that'd be cool. :)21:12
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J1mzope.configuration *should* support actions w/o zcml now.21:13
J1mBut given that we21:13
J1mBut given that we've only used the xml format for a long while, I can imagine that that has atrophied.21:13
faassenI imagine it does, it's just that it'd be nice to be reuse some of the ZCML action implementations.21:14
faassento have a bit of a formal contract about what a discriminator is doing, perhaps.21:14
J1mI also want to implement my old action filtering proposal soon, so I suspect that a good place to start would be to implement a basic action-generating API from Python.21:14
faassenI mean, I imagine it's not atrophied.21:14
faassenokay, that'd be very cool to have.21:14
faassenI talked to theuni at Europython about it a bit.21:14
J1mThe action semantics are defined by zope.configuration *not* by the xml syntax.21:15
faassenand he had some ideas which I now forget about this, but that sounded good. :)21:15
faassenright, I know.21:15
faassenI know that zope.configuration should be reusable.21:15
J1mwhy wouldn't it be?21:15
faassenit's just that individual action implementations are not reusable. like, registering something.21:15
faassenI know it *is* reusable.21:15
faassenI'm not talking about the action handling bits.21:16
faassenI know that's generic.21:16
J1mactually, individual handlers often are reusable and are often reused.21:16
faassenI'm talking about the actual implementation of various handlers.21:16
faassenyeah, but they are tied in with ZCML a bit more.21:16
faassenanyway, we'll see.21:16
J1mI don't think so.21:16
faassenokay, let's just say that I don't *WANT* to reuse browser:page21:17
J1mThe handlers are passed data that has nothing to do with the xml format.21:17
J1mThe actions don't have anything to do with the format.21:17
faassenbut the schema for the directives is not necessary the ideal schema for other usages.21:17
faassenI mean, I've dealt with ZCML before, I do have some basic understanding of what's going on in there. :)21:18
faassenI realize that you define a new directive with a schema.21:18
faassenit's just that it feels a bit scary to depend on those actions from a completely different configuration system.21:18
J1mThe schemas support the parsing.21:18
J1mThe handlers are just Python functions for the most part.21:19
faassenyes, I know.21:19
faassenand they may be reusable, or they may not be, from grok.21:19
faassenwe will find out how many actions we need to define for our own purposes once we do it.21:19
faassenand doing this will probably give us some data on which actions can be shared, all or few.21:20
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fcorreaHey, does anybody know if any event is sent when a Exception occurs in zope2.9? I want to write a event subscriber for this22:29
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t3h_soodDoes zope3 go through some sort of special process while creating an object through an addForm, like, something extra that isn't just a constructor?22:56
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* wiggy feels like killing the cheeseshop23:08
* benji reports wiggy to the Very Clean Shop Homicide Squad.23:08
wiggyit's been down for hours now, but teasing me with being up for a few minutes occasionally23:09
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benjiwiggy: have you tried ppix?23:14
wiggyI forgot how to use it23:14
benjiYou can put "index =" in the [buildout]23:14
benjisection of your config.23:14
wiggydoes that work in ~/.buildout/default.cfg as well?23:15
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benjiwiggy: should23:24
benjiNote that you may be as much as *one minute* out of date using ppix.  <wink>23:25
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fcorreaWhat is the best way to create a hook for a error or if possible, send a event upon error?23:33
fcorreaI am in zope2.9 and don23:33
fcorreadon't want to put a notify statement in the middle of OFS.SimpleItem. Is there a way for doing this?23:33
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