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| projekt01 | J1m, did you read the proposal about separate views using a component.zcml? | 00:29 |
|---|---|---|
| J1m | Yes, I don't understand it. | 00:30 |
| J1m | Are you just suggesting to use separate zcml files for view and non-view registrations? | 00:30 |
| projekt01 | Yes, component.zcml and browser.zcml | 00:34 |
| projekt01 | Both get included in configure.zcml | 00:34 |
| projekt01 | This will not break anything | 00:35 |
| srichter | J1m: yeah, basically ew try to figure out how to separate the Python API from the view stuff | 00:35 |
| srichter | because the view stuff is mostly written for Rotterdam and macro-bsaed views | 00:35 |
| srichter | and including them in a server where we do not want to use rotterdam or macros makes no sense | 00:36 |
| J1m | so this isn't really a proposal so much as a suggested way to arrange configuration? | 00:36 |
| projekt01 | yes | 00:36 |
| srichter | J1m: a more intrusive approach would be to create new packages like "ns.mypackage" and "ns.mypackage.browser" | 00:36 |
| srichter | J1m: right, it is more about refactoring to gain some more configuration hooks | 00:37 |
| J1m | refactoring what? | 00:37 |
| srichter | J1m: (I have not read the proposal yet, but have the benefit of having Roger at the same table) | 00:37 |
| J1m | k | 00:37 |
| projekt01 | it's more a new arrangement then a refactoring | 00:37 |
| J1m | refactoring what? | 00:37 |
| * J1m wants to scream: "So what?" | 00:38 | |
| srichter | J1m: refactoring: rearranging the ZCML registrations, so one can decide more granularly what to include and what not | 00:38 |
| J1m | are you talking about refactoring the zcml in the zope.* projects? | 00:38 |
| srichter | J1m: I suggested to Roger not to even write a proposal ;-) because it does not affect public apis | 00:38 |
| J1m | agreed | 00:38 |
| J1m | I still don't know what y'all are saying. | 00:39 |
| projekt01 | yes, especialy in zope.app.error, zope.app.session zope.app.securitypolicy, all of them register add menu items and addform, editform views. | 00:39 |
| J1m | do you want to go through the zope.* projects and factor their configs? | 00:39 |
| projekt01 | We don't use zope.app.form anymore, so we can't register such views | 00:39 |
| projekt01 | yes | 00:39 |
| srichter | J1m: yep | 00:39 |
| J1m | well, it's ok w me. | 00:40 |
| projekt01 | And make eggs for this packages | 00:40 |
| J1m | Perhaps a note to the list saying simply what you propose to do would be good. | 00:40 |
| srichter | J1m: yeah, I will write something more structured | 00:40 |
| projekt01 | Ok, thanks | 00:40 |
| J1m | and that there will be no impact on people who just include configure.zcml. | 00:40 |
| projekt01 | Yes | 00:41 |
| J1m | k | 00:41 |
| srichter | J1m: do you think that in the long run splitting packages into "zope.package" and "zope.package.brower"/"zope.package.zmi" would be a more solid approach? | 00:41 |
| srichter | J1m: because just splitting package configuration is only half the story | 00:42 |
| srichter | J1m: the overall goal is, of course, to minimize package dependencies | 00:42 |
| J1m | first, I'm not for making work. :) | 00:42 |
| projekt01 | is it possible to nest eggs, which means make a egg for zope.foo and one for zope.foo.browser? | 00:42 |
| J1m | second, I'd be for having zope.foo and zope.foobrowser | 00:42 |
| J1m | You won't be able to make foo.browser a namespace package. | 00:43 |
| J1m | sorrt | 00:43 |
| J1m | sorry | 00:43 |
| J1m | You won't be able to make zope.foofoo a namespace package. | 00:43 |
| J1m | ugh | 00:43 |
| J1m | You won't be able to make zope.foo a namespace package. | 00:43 |
| projekt01 | I see | 00:43 |
| srichter | ok, darn | 00:43 |
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| J1m | But that should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. | 00:44 |
| J1m | For a package that is only useful in zope, or exists primarily to support browser apps, it doen't really make sense to have a separate browser package. | 00:45 |
| srichter | J1m: so part of the ZCML split is to minimize dependencies; if we leave the code in the same package, we have to use "extra_includes" to split dependencies between core API and browser dependencies | 00:45 |
| J1m | (e.g. for zope.app.session) | 00:45 |
| J1m | you mean extras_require? | 00:45 |
| srichter | right, I think the split needs to be three fold: API, basic browser components, ZMI management UI | 00:46 |
| srichter | J1m: yes | 00:46 |
| J1m | That just opens up a can of worms. | 00:46 |
| J1m | As you know, I think extras are a crock. | 00:46 |
| srichter | right, that'sa my worry | 00:46 |
| srichter | J1m: so we should do it right and split the packages then? | 00:47 |
| J1m | If a component really really really wants to live without the browser stuff, then I would make a separate package for it. | 00:47 |
| srichter | ok, agreed, so let's do that | 00:47 |
| J1m | otherwise I wouldn't bother. | 00:47 |
| J1m | I'm not trying to encourage anh gedons. :) | 00:47 |
| J1m | Guys, btw, I love extjs. | 00:50 |
| wiggy | you're the second person to say that | 00:50 |
| wiggy | how does it compare to jquery? | 00:50 |
| J1m | It is much higher level. | 00:50 |
| J1m | It makes more sense to compare it to wxpython. | 00:50 |
| wiggy | or kss? | 00:50 |
| J1m | It makes web development not suck. | 00:51 |
| J1m | I'm not familiar with kss. | 00:51 |
| wiggy | kss allows you to do stuff through a css-like system, no javascript writing needed | 00:51 |
| wiggy | kssproject.org iirc | 00:51 |
| wiggy | plone 3 uses it | 00:51 |
| J1m | Then this may be anti-kss. | 00:51 |
| J1m | You can do pretty much everything through js. | 00:52 |
| J1m | so you have a real ui programming language. | 00:52 |
| wiggy | I'll have to take a look at it someday | 00:52 |
| J1m | You can almost completely avoid writing pointy brackets if you want to. | 00:52 |
| J1m | It radically changes the way web UIs are written -- for the better imo | 00:53 |
| J1m | srichter, projekt01 | 00:53 |
| * wiggy back to fighting the zope testrunner | 00:53 | |
| wiggy | it keeps ignoring a file :( | 00:53 |
| wiggy | I'm somewhat worried that there seems to be a new great java framework every year | 00:55 |
| wiggy | javascript I mean | 00:56 |
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| J1m | well, they'll keep trying until they get it right. This is a Good Thing. | 00:58 |
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| J1m | Gary Poster did a bunch of research and fealt that this was the best around for what we want to do. I'm pretty happy with the model, which is much more like a tradiational UI framework. | 00:59 |
| srichter | J1m: would you think that something like "zope.session.api", "zope.session.browser" and "zope.session.zmi" would be acceptable | 01:00 |
| J1m | no, I don't want to see more subpackages. | 01:00 |
| srichter | (whether session is the right package for such a split is another question; I just used it as example) | 01:00 |
| J1m | "Shallow is better than nested." | 01:00 |
| wiggy | isn't there a way to hook into a general admin interface thing instead of rotterdam | 01:00 |
| J1m | browser subpackages were a mistake. | 01:00 |
| srichter | J1m: I like pyjamas too | 01:01 |
| J1m | You guys should stick to just factoring the zcml. | 01:02 |
| J1m | If you want to refactor the packages, that is a much bigger deal. | 01:03 |
| J1m | for example, removing the browser and zmi stuff from zope.app.session will either require a new major version #, which would cause lots of problems, or a whole new package. | 01:04 |
| J1m | I guess you could create zope.session that didn't have any UI support and then change zope.app.session to use that -- as long as zope.app.session was backward compatible. But this is a special case since zope.session is available. | 01:05 |
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| edgordon | is there a certain way i need to add objects to a contain in order for the catalog to pick up the event? i am doing 'folder[objname'] = obj' and my indexes aren't updating | 05:26 |
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| romanofski | moin | 09:35 |
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| lezardo | hello! | 11:58 |
| lezardo | I'm a zope3 beginner and I would like to know how to use zope.html to have an FCKeditor | 11:58 |
| lezardo | in Phil's application worldcookery | 11:58 |
| lezardo | does anyone know how to do that??? | 11:59 |
| lezardo | I have already modify the interfaces.py | 11:59 |
| lezardo | and of course i install zope.html | 11:59 |
| lezardo | but i don't know what else does I kneed to do? | 12:00 |
| lezardo | or just a way to find the right documentation? | 12:01 |
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| lezardo | nobody know??? | 12:07 |
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| __gotcha | is there a spec somewhere that explains ppix for buildout and eggs | 14:30 |
| __gotcha | I'd like to know how to query download.zope.org about the eggs it can distribute | 14:31 |
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| __gotcha | zope.component 3.3 is not available in cheeseshop or download.z.o | 14:34 |
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| philiKON_ | download.zope.org/distribution has no way for "querying". it's a flat list | 14:40 |
| philiKON_ | download.zope.org/ppix works like a package index | 14:40 |
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| philiKON_ | e.g. http://download.zope.org/ppix/zope.component/ | 14:40 |
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| * mgedmin is at the foliage sprint, yay | 16:14 | |
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| Cripps | way to go mgedmin :) | 16:23 |
| Cripps | mgedmin: say hi to Stephan for me ;) | 16:23 |
| mgedmin | srichter: Cripps says hi | 16:24 |
| mgedmin | :) | 16:24 |
| Cripps | w00t. | 16:24 |
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| Cripps | I take it everyone is just showing up about now? | 16:24 |
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| whit | anybody know if it's possible to install zope.app.catalog just by easy_install? | 16:59 |
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| mgedmin | I see one test failure on zope 3 trunk | 17:01 |
| Cripps | uh-oh | 17:01 |
| lisppaste6 | mgedmin pasted "make test failure on trunk" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/48162 | 17:01 |
| mgedmin | looks insignificant | 17:02 |
| Cripps | hahaha ... the end of the triple-quoted string is commented out. | 17:02 |
| Cripps | ah, but it's the offset that's wrong. | 17:03 |
| Cripps | weird. | 17:03 |
| timte | whit: yeah, it's registered at pypi | 17:03 |
| mgedmin | could it be a line ending issue? | 17:03 |
| mgedmin | CR versus CRLF would change the offset by 1 | 17:04 |
| Cripps | LF? | 17:04 |
| Cripps | oh. | 17:04 |
| Cripps | yeah ... it could be that. | 17:04 |
| Cripps | but it shouldn't make a difference, else there would be a blank line kicking around after the try: statement. | 17:06 |
| mgedmin | http://buildbot.zope.org/ looks pretty bleak | 17:06 |
| Cripps | oh boy ... it sure does. | 17:07 |
| Cripps | build bot is sick? | 17:08 |
| whit | timte: I get error: Could not find suitable distribution for Requirement.parse('zope.app') when I try to install it via pypi | 17:09 |
| whit | and zope.app is a non-entity | 17:10 |
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| timte | works here | 17:11 |
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| * whit tries afresh | 17:12 | |
| whit | I started with easy_install hurry.query | 17:13 |
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| mgedmin | is there a canonical "getting started with eggified zope 3" document somewhere? | 17:33 |
| * mgedmin knows about zopeproject | 17:33 | |
| * mgedmin wants to test eggified zope without installing random stuff into his real site-packages | 17:33 | |
| timte | virtualenv is good for that | 17:34 |
| timte | and buildout | 17:34 |
| mgedmin | except that they require me to easy_install virtualenv/zc.buildout, which go into my global site-packages | 17:35 |
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| timte | for workingenv there is a script you can download instead of installing it, maybe there's one for virtualenv as well | 17:36 |
| mgedmin | http://pypi.python.org/pypi/virtualenv only has egg and tar.gz downloads | 17:37 |
| mgedmin | wow, virtualenv weighs 673 kb | 17:38 |
| mgedmin | ah, it has two pre-built setuptools eggs inside | 17:38 |
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| timte | but do you really mind having virtualenv in site-packages? | 17:40 |
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| mgedmin | I mind having anything that didn't come from a .deb in my /usr/ | 17:41 |
| mgedmin | in my opinion easy_install is terribly broken because it defaults to putting crap into /usr/ instead of /usr/local/ | 17:41 |
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| Cripps | you should bring up that point with the easy_install maintainer | 17:42 |
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| mgedmin | you're right | 17:45 |
| mgedmin | but there are so many things I should do... | 17:45 |
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| timte | :) | 17:45 |
| mgedmin | does easy_install have an issue tracker? | 17:46 |
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| mgedmin | apparently not | 17:47 |
| mgedmin | wheee | 17:48 |
| mgedmin | svn co svn+ssh://svn.zope.org/repos/main/z3c.formdemo/trunk z3c.formdemo && cd z3c.formdemo && python bootstrap.py && bin/buildout bombs out with an AssertionError | 17:49 |
| * mgedmin suggests moving the pastebot link closer to the beginning of the /topic | 17:50 | |
| lisppaste6 | mgedmin pasted "z3c.formdemo buildout problem" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/48167 | 17:50 |
| * mgedmin expects the standard "do not use the system python" chastisement any second now | 17:53 | |
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| philiKON_ | mgedmin: bin/buildout has a shebang... why are you explicitly calling it with python2.4 anyway? | 17:56 |
| philiKON_ | anyway, mgedmin, the z3c.formdemo buildout is broken | 17:57 |
| philiKON_ | srichter has his own way of symlinking things around that's obviously not automatically repeatable | 17:57 |
| philiKON_ | this was discussed on the mailinglist | 17:57 |
| philiKON_ | i suggested either adding an svn:external (if cutting edge trunk is important to z3c.formdemo) or ripping it out of the develop= line | 17:57 |
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| * mgedmin gets srichter to fix his problem | 17:59 | |
| Cripps | hahaha | 17:59 |
| * mgedmin also has a headache, which doesn't help at all | 18:00 | |
| Cripps | mgedmin: must be handy having Stephan right there ;) | 18:00 |
| mgedmin | except that everybody needs him, so he's pretty busy :) | 18:00 |
| * mgedmin wonders if he can safely ignore "Download error: unknown url type: svn -- Some packages may not be found!" | 18:00 | |
| ignas | mgedmin, iirc - yes | 18:01 |
| ignas | mgedmin, oh and the /usr/lib problem is (you'll laugh) | 18:02 |
| ignas | debian problem not easy_install problem | 18:02 |
| mgedmin | 8-/ | 18:02 |
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| ignas | pyhon installation on debian is not including anything except /usr/lib/site-packages | 18:03 |
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| ignas | so if you install something to /usr/local - your python won't see it | 18:03 |
| ignas | or something like that | 18:04 |
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| mgedmin | now lxml fails to build | 18:08 |
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| projekt01 | Theuni, where is the proposal for finishing the 3..4.0 eggs | 18:19 |
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| Theuni | projekt01: http://wiki.zope.org/zope3/StabilizeEggPackages | 18:20 |
| projekt01 | thanks | 18:21 |
| * mgedmin reports https://bugs.launchpad.net/lxml/+bug/144471 | 18:23 | |
| wiggy | pkg-config is not just linux | 18:25 |
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| ignas | mgedmin, why aren't you using buildout to build libxml2? | 18:37 |
| mgedmin | yay, the documentation I need is awesome: http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/setuptools#reusing-setuptools-code | 18:37 |
| mgedmin | ignas: I am | 18:37 |
| mgedmin | or maybe I am not | 18:37 |
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| ignas | mgedmin, because i know my buildout builds libxml without triggering any bugs related to ubuntu | 18:43 |
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| agroszer | gstratton: /repos/main/Sandbox/ocql-foliage | 19:02 |
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| thruflo | hi | 19:03 |
| thruflo | I'm looking for a decent intro to layering a skin | 19:03 |
| thruflo | i've read the relevant bits in web component development with zope3 | 19:04 |
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| thruflo | but i'm looking for a bit more info on setting up a base layer and then developing layers on top | 19:04 |
| thruflo | any suggestions? | 19:04 |
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| thruflo | i've also seen http://wiki.zope.org/zope3/SimplifySkinning | 19:08 |
| thruflo | which is useful | 19:08 |
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| mgedmin | why doesn't google like wiki.zope.org? | 19:29 |
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| mgedmin | could it be the <meta name="robots" content="noindex" /> in every page? | 19:30 |
| mgedmin | who put that there and why? | 19:30 |
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| markusleist | what about the (new and old) attribute values in the z3c.form.EditForm - ObjectModifiedEvent? Please have a look at http://paste.lisp.org/display/48174 and feel free to comment. | 19:34 |
| * markusleist will be back in about 2 h and look into irc-logs. | 19:35 | |
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| projekt01 | Theuni, can you add me to zope.app.error on pypi? | 19:38 |
| projekt01 | username: projekt01 | 19:38 |
| philiKON | projekt01: we don't need a 3.4 branch | 19:38 |
| philiKON | i forgot to update the wiki page | 19:38 |
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| philiKON | i think creating 3.4 branches is overhead | 19:39 |
| philiKON | especially if you create it before preparing the version work, like you did... | 19:39 |
| philiKON | in fact, in this case (unless you merge), the zope.app.error 3.4 branch is quite irritating | 19:39 |
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| pcardune | How is the sprint going whoever is there? | 19:41 |
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| mgedmin | meh | 19:43 |
| WebMaven | pcardune: we're getting started. | 19:43 |
| WebMaven | pcardune: I left some comments on your blog BTW. | 19:44 |
| pcardune | WebMaven: oh yeah, a while back? | 19:46 |
| WebMaven | a coupe of weeks, I think. | 19:47 |
| WebMaven | couple | 19:47 |
| pcardune | I only just checked them through yesterday | 19:47 |
| WebMaven | on the tree emo | 19:47 |
| WebMaven | demo | 19:47 |
| WebMaven | dang keyboard | 19:47 |
| pcardune | yeah, I've been meaning to make a 0.3 release of formjs and formjsdemo | 19:48 |
| WebMaven | That would be appreciated! | 19:48 |
| pcardune | But I've been overloaded with this school stuff | 19:48 |
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| WebMaven | OK. | 19:48 |
| pcardune | I wanted to clean some stuff up before the release, but I think it could probably be done this week | 19:49 |
| pcardune | I'll make that my own personal sprint goal since I can't be there | 19:49 |
| WebMaven | BTW, I have a use-case for a tree that is always expanded. (ie. no '+' or '-') | 19:49 |
| pcardune | You could use the tree demo and just make the default state expanded, and remove the + and - stuff | 19:50 |
| pcardune | always expanded is a much simpler use case in fact | 19:50 |
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| mgedmin | I think I just discovered a memory leak in xchat-gnome | 19:52 |
| mgedmin | fwiw I'm putting the notes on my sprint task at http://wiki.zope.org/zope3/PackageDependenciesTool | 19:53 |
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| projekt01 | philiKON, windows produces zip files instead of tar.gz files for packages. Is there a way to force setuptools to create tar.gz files? | 20:26 |
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| philiKON | mgedmin: ping? | 21:05 |
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| mgedmin | philiKON: pong | 22:07 |
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| philiKON | mgedmin: see my comment on the wiki | 22:07 |
| mgedmin | thanks | 22:11 |
| mgedmin | srichter: http://pypi.python.org/pypi/tl.eggdeps appears to do what you want re egg dependencies | 22:12 |
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| regebro | Hiya all! | 22:50 |
| regebro | I hear rumours about CMSs for Zope3, and time has come to evaluate them. I've heard there exists at least two. | 22:50 |
| regebro | Anybody knows which ones? | 22:51 |
| philiKON | i don' know of any open source cms for z3 | 22:51 |
| regebro | nuts. | 22:52 |
| philiKON | ? | 22:53 |
| * regebro was trying to say "shit" nicely. | 22:55 | |
| philiKON | you probably meant to say "rats" | 22:56 |
| philiKON | at least i think 'nuts' has a different connotation... | 22:56 |
| regebro | rats works as well. Maybe it's english vs american. :-) | 22:56 |
| wiggy | regebro: preparing your ploneconf talk? :) | 22:57 |
| regebro | philiKON: No worries, I still have Sebastians start of a grok CMS to evaluate. | 22:57 |
| regebro | wiggy: No, but thanks for reminding me. :-) | 22:57 |
| * philiKON needs to do his talk tongiht too ;) | 22:57 | |
| * wiggy is almost certainly not going to make the deadline | 22:57 | |
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| regebro | I'm going to make one sentence per page. Just let those Plone people print THAT for everyone. :-) | 22:58 |
| mgedmin | yay for larry-lessig-style presentations | 23:01 |
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| projekt01 | philiKON, see z3ext at: http://z3ext.net/ | 23:02 |
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| philiKON | projekt01: cool. didn't know. thanks | 23:07 |
| philiKON | projekt01: btw, got my email? | 23:07 |
| * projekt01 is checking the mails | 23:08 | |
| * philiKON bbl | 23:08 | |
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| * timte wonders what OCQL is | 23:13 | |
| regebro | projekt01: Super. How is the code status? Alpha/beta/production-ready? | 23:14 |
| agroszer | timte: OCQL: the gentle introduction is the presentation | 23:22 |
| agroszer | timte: refer to the sprint page | 23:22 |
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| timte | agroszer: wherever that is :) | 23:24 |
| fdrake | projekt01: Did you just fix the missing configure.zcml from the zope.app.error egg? | 23:24 |
| * agroszer is a bit jetlagged | 23:25 | |
| * fdrake went ahead and released zope.app.error 3.4.1 anyway. | 23:27 | |
| projekt01 | what's that? | 23:27 |
| fdrake | The sdist was missing the configure.zcml file. | 23:27 |
| fdrake | Jim said you'd just asked him for PyPI privs for that one, so thought I'd check with out. | 23:27 |
| fdrake | But I was too impatient to wait for an answer. ;-) | 23:28 |
| projekt01 | Ok | 23:28 |
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| srichter | fdrake: hi IO work with Roger on this | 23:29 |
| fdrake | "hi IO"? Hmm... | 23:29 |
| srichter | we basically were releasing stuff, so that we could start working on 3.50 version, splitting up packages into components and browser views | 23:29 |
| srichter | fdrake: oops, ;-) | 23:30 |
| fdrake | Ok; I wasn't messing with the trunk, and it looks like 3.4.0 was out by the time I poked it. | 23:30 |
| fdrake | So I think we're ok. | 23:30 |
| srichter | ok, me too | 23:30 |
| * fdrake crosses fingers, as I update and test another build.... | 23:31 | |
| srichter | fdrake: I guess you did not create a branch, which is okay, because we have not checked in our 3.5 changes yet | 23:31 |
| fdrake | There was an existing branch, which I used. | 23:31 |
| fdrake | zope.app.error/branches/3.4 | 23:32 |
| srichter | ah, ok, right | 23:32 |
| srichter | ok, then we are all good | 23:32 |
| fdrake | w00t! | 23:32 |
| fdrake | Make sure any sdist you release has a configure.zcml, or the Harpy of Missing ZCML will throw rotting fish at you. :-) | 23:33 |
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| srichter | fdrake: will do | 23:39 |
| srichter | fdrake: but why is it missing in the first place? | 23:39 |
| srichter | I am not specifying anything special usually | 23:39 |
| fdrake | I don't know; I figure someone botched things when they built the sdist, but I don't know what command was used. | 23:40 |
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| fdrake | I just did bin/buildout setup . sdist, and the result was fine. | 23:40 |
| timte | agroszer: looks a bit like linq | 23:42 |
| agroszer | timte: I don't think so, linq is a lot like SQL | 23:42 |
| timte | the example in the presentation was rather similar to SQL as well | 23:43 |
| agroszer | OCQL is a lot like list comprehesion | 23:43 |
| agroszer | timte: which example you mean? | 23:44 |
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| timte | [ s in IStudents; a as s.major.address.street; a="Hillhead Street" or a="Gibson Street" ] is almost like "select * from students as s where s.major.address.street="Hillhead Street" or s.major.address.street="Gibson Street" | 23:47 |
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| timte | and therefore a bit like linq as well :) | 23:48 |
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| agroszer | timte: these are equivalent, they look similar because of that | 23:58 |
| timte | agroszer: looking forward to test it :) | 23:59 |
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