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| zenwryly | J1m: I don't suppose you're here? | 00:43 |
|---|---|---|
| J1m | philiKON, zenwryly ping | 00:55 |
| philiKON | J1m: i'm on my way to bed. will talk to you some other time. it's not important | 00:55 |
| J1m | k | 00:56 |
| zenwryly | J1m: just sent an email to distutils-sig about zc.recipe.egg | 00:58 |
| zenwryly | J1m: just thought I'd additionally give a IRC ping too | 00:58 |
| J1m | are you ross? | 00:59 |
| zenwryly | yeah, sorry :) | 00:59 |
| J1m | It looks like you sent the note to just me. | 00:59 |
| zenwryly | gmane authorizing right now | 00:59 |
| J1m | I don't understand what the point is, | 01:00 |
| J1m | what use case is this for? | 01:01 |
| J1m | I guess use cases. | 01:01 |
| J1m | If you wish, I'll respond via email. | 01:02 |
| zenwryly | well I use the setup recipe is for releases | 01:02 |
| J1m | It doesn't make sense to me to drive this from a buildout. | 01:02 |
| J1m | Buildouts let you do the same thing over and over again. | 01:02 |
| J1m | why would you want to do that with a release? | 01:02 |
| zenwryly | the editable recipe I use to use the same buildout for development and deployment where deployment gets released eggs and development uses svn URLs | 01:02 |
| zenwryly | well my use is to use a buildout as a development environemnt for a number of related projects... | 01:03 |
| zenwryly | then I can release them all at once when I'm ready | 01:03 |
| zenwryly | release after release | 01:03 |
| J1m | This sounds odd. I don't know if you want to try to explain it, but, if you do, could you give an example of how you would use this? | 01:05 |
| zenwryly | ok... | 01:05 |
| zenwryly | Say I'm working for a client that involves developing a number of projects. I create a set of *.cfg files for buildout. One *.cfg file uses the editable recipe to checkout svn versions of the projects to a location outside the part directory so they'll be preserved between runs of buildout. Then when the source is ready for release, the setup recipe is configured to do "register sdist bdist_egg upload". | 01:09 |
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| zenwryly | On deployment I can use a lot of the same *.cfg files but let the development projects get used as eggs without having svn:externals. | 01:10 |
| zenwryly | I also have a use case where on deployment I need source distributions for released versions of projects but I need them to be automatically replaced when there are new releases, but that is just an ugly situation. | 01:11 |
| J1m | why is avoiding svn:externals a goal? | 01:13 |
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| J1m | I don't like the idea of uploading eggs as part of a buildout. | 01:13 |
| zenwryly | ok | 01:13 |
| J1m | It feels like it makes it too easy to do accidental uploads. | 01:13 |
| zenwryly | I like avoiding svn:externals as it allows me to use the same buildout checkout for deployment or release. It also allows me to convert a deployment buildout to a development buildout in whole or part to debug. | 01:14 |
| zenwryly | I keep the setup recipe in it's own release.cfg file that extends buildout.cfg so that I have to specify "-c release.cfg" to run it | 01:15 |
| J1m | You say you have a use case where you need source distributions for delployment. I don't understand this. What does this mean? Do you install these as develop eggs? Why do you *need* this? Does this have some advantage over an unzipped install? | 01:15 |
| zenwryly | It doesn't it's an ugly situation that should not be considered :) | 01:16 |
| J1m | I can see some benefit of an editble recipe. I can see how it might be more flexible to control checkouts via recipes. | 01:17 |
| zenwryly | Yeah, that's the elegant summary, thanks :) | 01:17 |
| J1m | I think this should be a separate recipe though, I see no need to merge with zc.recoipe.egg. | 01:17 |
| zenwryly | alright | 01:18 |
| zenwryly | I just had the issue where I just put something in the z3c namespace that someone wished I had included elsewhere | 01:18 |
| J1m | hm I don't know about that. :) | 01:19 |
| zenwryly | so the setup recipe you think is just a bad idea? | 01:19 |
| J1m | I have nothing to say about the z3c namespace. | 01:19 |
| J1m | That's my opinion. That doesn't make me right and you wrong. :) | 01:19 |
| zenwryly | well I like collecting opinions, especially from the zc people :) | 01:20 |
| J1m | It's arguably partly a matter of taste. | 01:20 |
| J1m | :) | 01:20 |
| zenwryly | well thanks for the discussion, helps me clarify my thinking | 01:20 |
| J1m | k | 01:20 |
| J1m | btw, we have recipes for doing checkouts too, although these are mostly for transaitions from our older buildout system that preceeded zc.buildout. | 01:21 |
| J1m | Lots of people have wanted this sort of thing. | 01:22 |
| J1m | (Ours wasn't generalized like yours is.) | 01:22 |
| zenwryly | What was the older buildout system? | 01:23 |
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| J1m | Well, we have had several, going back to a make-based system done by Tres. | 01:24 |
| zenwryly | ah | 01:25 |
| J1m | The one that preceeded zc.buildout was our first Python-based buildout system. It was done by Benji York. | 01:25 |
| J1m | It was very much an evolutionary prototype. | 01:25 |
| J1m | It established the basic pattern of cfg files and recipes that zc.buildout uses. | 01:26 |
| J1m | It wasn't egg based at all though. | 01:26 |
| J1m | It used svn checkouts to assemble Python packages. | 01:26 |
| J1m | so I wrote a recipe to emulate what it did to help us transition our project with the older buildouts. | 01:27 |
| zenwryly | I'm curious, what did you consider the biggest problem with that approach? | 01:27 |
| J1m | well the main problem is that we had to be veryt careful to avoid having the buildout clobber precious data (code). | 01:27 |
| J1m | so, if we changed a version #, it would rename the old checkout and make a new one. | 01:28 |
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| J1m | In general, I think there should be artifacts that the buildout manages and argtifacts that people manage. The 2 should not overlap. | 01:29 |
| J1m | Otherwise, people and buildout get in each others way. | 01:29 |
| zenwryly | Yeah, I ask because I've just run into so many problems trying to piece application code together from multiple svn sources | 01:29 |
| J1m | So I much much prefer managing code I might edit myself outside the buildout. Externals or even temporary checkouts work great for me. | 01:30 |
| zenwryly | That was the idea with the build-directory option in the editable recipe. If you let buildout manage the distribtions, the go in the part which is buildout managed. But you could also specify a non-buildout managed diectory that it would leave alon (except for initial retrieval) | 01:30 |
| J1m | I much prefer piecing application components together with eggs, | 01:30 |
| zenwryly | yeah | 01:30 |
| J1m | It depends on whether you are going to edit the checked out code. That's a central consideration for me. | 01:31 |
| zenwryly | I guess the reason I like the setup recipe is that buildout gives me this fantistic set of data and framework to make repeated tasks a lot easier. I can see how that's going beyond the intended scope of buildout, repeatable environments. | 01:34 |
| J1m | exactly. It's a screw driver. Not a hammer. :) | 01:34 |
| J1m | Gotta go cool dinner. | 01:35 |
| J1m | later. | 01:35 |
| zenwryly | bye | 01:35 |
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| sm | why is he cooling dinner ? | 07:22 |
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| zenwryly | sm: he's a revolutionary! Soon we'll all be cooling dinner. | 09:00 |
| zenwryly | sm: or maybe he's gone macrobiotic | 09:00 |
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| romanofski | moin :) | 09:38 |
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| regebro | zope.app.securitypolicy is currently broken. | 15:36 |
| regebro | I could check in a fix (it's trivial) a bit later, but I can't release an egg. Anybody here that can do that? | 15:37 |
| zagy_ | what's broken there? | 15:42 |
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| ignas | hmm, i have zope.View granted for zope.Anybody, but my other principals still are not getting the permission | 16:03 |
| ignas | anything i should look at? | 16:03 |
| ignas | must i grant zope.View for every other principal i add? | 16:03 |
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| jsadjohnson | http://jsa.pastey.net/74662 | 16:27 |
| jsadjohnson | wrong place! | 16:27 |
| jsadjohnson | wrong channel | 16:27 |
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| regebro | zagy_: Some deprecation in rolepermission is pointing at something that doesn't exist. | 16:34 |
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| CrippsFX | I just finished doing some code restructuring (i.e. flat model to Website.app etc) and now my zope instance will let me view http://localhost:8080/@@index.html but it throws a system error on http://localhost:8080/@@contents.html ... I am logged in as Manager and a traceback (that I couldn't make any sense of) is located here: http://www.pastebin.ca/721692 ... help finding the issue would be much appreciated. | 17:12 |
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| benji | CrippsFX: just glancing at it, it looks like the code attempts to import the "interfaces" module and can't | 17:14 |
| benji | looks like it was referenced in a constraint | 17:14 |
| CrippsFX | hm. Where would it be trying to look for the constraint/interfaces module? I can't see any references to my webapp in that T.B. | 17:15 |
| benji | I would use the post-mortem debugger and look through the stack-trace, it'll probably be fairly easy to find | 17:16 |
| CrippsFX | benji: kk. Good thing I have that enabled then. | 17:16 |
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| CrippsFX | benji: how would I print out the value of a variable in pdb? i.e. __import__(used) is being called, and I'd like to see what the value of used is ... but the ? command in pdb isn't very informative | 17:36 |
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| derek|coffeeshop | what's the simplest way to obtain the current user and the current user's group in a zc.buildout? | 17:36 |
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| bigkevmcd | CrippsFX: type p nameofvariable or just nameofvariable | 17:38 |
| CrippsFX | bigkevmcd: kk. thanks | 17:38 |
| bigkevmcd | CrippsFX: http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/python/2005/09/01/debugger.html | 17:38 |
| bigkevmcd | CrippsFX: when you get used to typing "nameofvariable", you'll understand why people hate variables called things like "c" or "p" or "s" :-) | 17:39 |
| benji | variables named "c" are the bane of my existance | 17:40 |
| bigkevmcd | indeed, I can imagine why :-) | 17:40 |
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| CrippsFX | bigkevmcd: makes sense. Thanks for the linky ... I think I shall bookmark it. | 17:41 |
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| CrippsFX | using that, I found *part* of where my app was going wrong ... it seems that in multiple places "ship.interfaces" is being referenced ... but that module no longer exists. | 17:43 |
| CrippsFX | sweet ... localhost:8080/@@contents.html now works. | 17:52 |
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| CrippsFX | man ... restructuring an application's directory structure is hard work! | 18:04 |
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| CrippsFX | ... and now I'm going to start asking some *slightly* more difficult questions ... | 18:10 |
| CrippsFX | is there any documentation on how to include z3c packages into an application's source tree? | 18:11 |
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| CrippsFX | ignas: ayt? | 18:36 |
| ignas | yes | 18:36 |
| CrippsFX | I know that you work with schooltool ... how do you guys handle z3c (or similar) packages? | 18:36 |
| ignas | what do you mean by "handle" | 18:37 |
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| CrippsFX | ignas: on a schooltool release, aren't they included in the schooltool source tree? | 18:38 |
| ignas | no, of course not | 18:38 |
| CrippsFX | How do you take care of external packages as dependencies then? | 18:39 |
| ignas | like what? | 18:40 |
| ignas | what do you mean external? | 18:40 |
| ignas | and how is z3c.foo different from zope.bar? | 18:40 |
| ignas | both are eggs, and both are in pypi | 18:40 |
| CrippsFX | to tell you the truth, I'm not entirely sure what I'm trying to ask here. | 18:40 |
| CrippsFX | okay ... how was it done *before* eggs? | 18:41 |
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| ignas | CrippsFX: we had no z3c dependencies ;) | 18:49 |
| ignas | ok, we had | 18:50 |
| ignas | but all of them were in ubuntu | 18:50 |
| ignas | so we had "install PIL and libxml on your system" | 18:50 |
| ignas | in README.txt | 18:50 |
| CrippsFX | ignas: ahh. OKay. That makes sense. | 18:52 |
| CrippsFX | I have to tell xbeanx that he's full of shit then ;) | 18:52 |
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| jsadjohnson | Anyone familiar with: AttributeError: 'PersistentSecurityMap' object has no attribute '_byrow' | 20:37 |
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| ignas | jsadjohnson, emm, can you paste the full traceback? | 20:37 |
| ignas | and use: | 20:37 |
| ignas | lisppaste6, url | 20:37 |
| lisppaste6 | To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/zope3-dev and enter your paste. | 20:37 |
| ignas | please | 20:37 |
| jsadjohnson | http://jsa.pastey.net/74686 | 20:39 |
| jsadjohnson | Using an 3.3.1 ZODB with trunk | 20:39 |
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| jsadjohnson | Checking backward compatibility. | 20:39 |
| jsadjohnson | context is root folder | 20:41 |
| ignas | hmm, no idea then, seems like versions of packages in trunk got out of sync | 20:41 |
| ignas | someone forgot to update svn externals | 20:41 |
| ignas | or maybe svn up didn't do the full update | 20:41 |
| jsadjohnson | I will recheckout. | 20:42 |
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| jsadjohnson | I did a full checkout and the problems persist. | 20:58 |
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| * lurker welcomes jsadjohnson to the state of zope where checkouts have seized to work while eggs are not yet fully there either... | 21:00 | |
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| jsadjohnson | It's nice to be here. :) | 21:02 |
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| spython | hmm, so there's no widget for Dict schema fields? | 21:16 |
| srichter | Theuni: do you know how to configure multi-databases in Z3? | 21:21 |
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| wiggy | isn't it the same as in z2? | 21:25 |
| srichter | wiggy: yeah, do you have a small smaple? | 21:25 |
| jsadjohnson | fyi: I downgraded to 3.3.2 and the exception went away. | 21:26 |
| wiggy | http://paste.plone.org/17097 works for zope2 | 21:26 |
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| srichter | wiggy: thanks a lot | 21:27 |
| srichter | wiggy: mmh, mount-point does not exist in Zope 3 :-( | 21:29 |
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| hazmat | is there any way to inject additional develop-eggs into a buildout without specifying them in the [buildout] section, i'd like to pull in some egg sources with another recipe (infrae.subversion), instead of mucking with svn externals | 21:32 |
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| srichter | J1m: how do I use multi-databases in Zope 3? | 21:40 |
| srichter | J1m: is there anything high-level I can use already? | 21:40 |
| srichter | J1m: or do I need to write a "mountpoint" object or something similar? | 21:41 |
| J1m | Fior better or worse, multi-databases are turned on by default. | 21:41 |
| J1m | for | 21:41 |
| J1m | Just create multiple named database definitions in zope.conf. | 21:41 |
| srichter | did that | 21:42 |
| J1m | (One of which can be unnamed. | 21:42 |
| J1m | ) | 21:42 |
| srichter | okay | 21:42 |
| J1m | for example: | 21:42 |
| J1m | <zodb> | 21:42 |
| J1m | <zeoclient> | 21:42 |
| J1m | server 8100 | 21:42 |
| J1m | </zeoclient> | 21:42 |
| J1m | </zodb> | 21:42 |
| J1m | <zodb zaam> | 21:42 |
| J1m | <zeoclient> | 21:42 |
| J1m | server 8200 | 21:42 |
| J1m | </zeoclient> | 21:42 |
| J1m | </zodb> | 21:42 |
| srichter | okay, this is the step I have already done | 21:43 |
| J1m | srichter, is http://pypi.python.org/pypi down for you? | 21:43 |
| srichter | J1m: yes | 21:43 |
| J1m | though so. | 21:43 |
| srichter | J1m: we really need a decent mirror of pypi | 21:43 |
| J1m | So, I think the first definition is uses for the main db. | 21:44 |
| srichter | yes | 21:44 |
| J1m | srichter, you don't use ppix? | 21:44 |
| srichter | J1m: yeah, I do | 21:44 |
| * srichter also tells everyone he meets about it | 21:44 | |
| J1m | We wouldn't even notice if I didn't get cron mail when pypi was down. | 21:44 |
| J1m | fortunately, Martin von Lois gets the same email. :) | 21:45 |
| srichter | that was a Freudian | 21:45 |
| srichter | :-) he he | 21:45 |
| J1m | hehe | 21:45 |
| J1m | Not, ot was fultonian, | 21:46 |
| srichter | LOL :-) | 21:46 |
| srichter | J1m: ok back to the multi-db thing: how do I connect the second DB to the first? | 21:46 |
| J1m | That happens automatically. | 21:46 |
| srichter | J1m: Zope 2 seems to have a "mount-point" option | 21:46 |
| * J1m waits for srichter to ask the right question. ;) | 21:47 | |
| srichter | J1m: How can I access it then from the main DB? | 21:47 |
| srichter | or my application? | 21:47 |
| J1m | Good question! | 21:47 |
| J1m | from an existing connection, use: | 21:47 |
| J1m | connection.get_connection('name') | 21:47 |
| J1m | That returns a connection to the named db. | 21:47 |
| J1m | so, for example: | 21:47 |
| J1m | self._p_jar.get_connection('zaam') | 21:48 |
| J1m | You can also have direct object references. | 21:48 |
| srichter | ahh, ok | 21:48 |
| J1m | One thing to be aware of is that cross-database references are weak. | 21:48 |
| J1m | so, if the only reference to an object is cross-database, then the object may be packed away, leaving a broken ref. | 21:49 |
| srichter | ok, that makes sense | 21:49 |
| J1m | cut/paste is something to be especially wary of. | 21:49 |
| J1m | I'm afraid this has buened a lot of people. :( | 21:49 |
| J1m | I need to add a no-gc option to file storage and a multi-db gc tool. | 21:50 |
| srichter | ok | 21:50 |
| J1m | soo much to do, so little time..... :/ | 21:50 |
| srichter | J1m: so do you think it would be good to develop a "MountPoint" content component? | 21:50 |
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| J1m | No, I don't. | 21:51 |
| srichter | J1m: I would be at a ZODB sprint | 21:51 |
| J1m | I don't see the point. | 21:51 |
| J1m | Unless you want to avoid cross-database references. | 21:51 |
| srichter | J1m: it would make the entrance easier for people | 21:51 |
| J1m | "mounting" an object from one db into another requires no more than an assignment. | 21:51 |
| J1m | I'm not sure I'd want to encourage multi-databases until we have a better packing/gc store or unless we make the weak-reference issue much more apparent, | 21:53 |
| srichter | I see | 21:53 |
| srichter | yeha, I hear you | 21:54 |
| srichter | but this is still all better than having your own data transfer protocol, which is the alternative | 21:54 |
| hazmat | J1m, is there any way to augment the develop-eggs in a buildout from a part | 21:54 |
| srichter | J1m: sounds like the zope.app.dependable package will come in handy again; it can mark an object to say: Hey, another DB is relying on this object | 21:56 |
| J1m | srichter, hm, possibly. Depends on the impl. | 21:57 |
| J1m | hazmat, I'm not sure what you mean, but develop eggs are pretty simple. | 21:58 |
| J1m | so a part could cram things into the directory ion a develop eggs that's added to a path. | 21:58 |
| J1m | For example, we have develop eggs in buildouts that are just empty namespace packages that some recipes write sub-packages into. | 21:59 |
| J1m | s/ion/in | 21:59 |
| hazmat | J1m, i'm trying to manage pulling egg sources with a recipe, i can't specify the part dependency as part of a buildout develop section, since buildout doesn't have enough infrastructure up to bootstrap the other egg properly at that point. i was wondering about making a recipe which just stuffed the location into buildout:installed_develop_eggs and created egg links in buildout:develop egg directory | 22:05 |
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| J1m | hazmat, that wouldn't be a good idea. | 22:07 |
| hazmat | yeah... i didn't think so.. | 22:07 |
| J1m | You *could* just create a develo egg yourself in develp-eggs. | 22:07 |
| J1m | Other recipes do that. | 22:07 |
| J1m | In fact, there's a recipe for creating develop eggs. | 22:07 |
| J1m | You aren't limited to the buildout:develop option. | 22:08 |
| hazmat | J1m, that would work, whats it called? | 22:08 |
| J1m | zc.recipe.egg:develop :) | 22:08 |
| hazmat | cool, thanks | 22:08 |
| J1m | I'd give you the irl to the documentation section if pypi was up. | 22:09 |
| J1m | url | 22:09 |
| hazmat | going through the egg sources at the moment | 22:09 |
| hazmat | thanks | 22:10 |
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| J1m | Look at the .txt files. | 22:12 |
| J1m | too late | 22:12 |
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