IRC log of #zope3-dev for Monday, 2007-10-08

philiKONa login page needs just a view (browser page). this is implemented as one class, or if you're using a shortcut, simply just a single pagetemplate file00:00
philiKONamaron: custom login pages are explained in my book:
philiKONalong with pretty much everything else you need to know about browser pages00:01
amaronphiliKON: which book is yours?00:01
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amaroncomany gave me a zope 3 developers handbook00:02
philiKONthat's a bit outdated, unfortunately00:02
amaronyes, i saw many depricated warnings00:02
amaronbut, unfortunataly, management decided00:03
amaronafter few days of trying to learn00:03
amaronthat zope 3 is too complex00:03
philiKONthen management made a mistake :)00:03
philiKONi thought you meant the mistake was buying that book ;)00:03
amaronthey also watched videos for turbogears and pylons...00:04
philiKONhave you see ?00:04
philiKONit's a web framework on top of zope300:04
philiKONthat makes thigns much easier00:04
amaronah, nice, thank you00:05
philiKONif they want a video, here's one i made:00:05
amaronnow company doesnt want to use zope00:05
amaronbut i want00:05
amaronfor myself00:05
philiKONi see00:06
amaronthey wanned some complex backend for their product and services00:06
amaronand since i coulnt manage to do it fast00:06
amaroni told them that learning curve for learning zope 3 is slow00:07
amaronbut zope 3 has much more to offer than other frameworks00:07
amaronthey dont want to listen00:07
philiKONmaybe it's a steep learning curve. but an old book doesn't help either00:07
philiKONand you should show them grok00:08
philiKONit has a much better learning curve00:08
amaron"do with a framework u can learn fast"00:08
amaroni dont mind if they choose anything, zope3 looks very attractive00:09
amaroni'll learn it for myself, then find a job with zope 3 devel.00:10
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amaronphiliKON: i found todolist sample from your book, it clears alot for me00:26
philiKONit's not from my book00:27
amaronthis metal templating i didn't understand00:27
philiKONthat's explained in my book00:28
amaronok, i'll order your book :)00:29
amaronto bad there is not much clear information for zope 300:30
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romanofskimoin :)09:45
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instantfoohmm, can you edit the "index" permission on a site manager? A user of mine needs access to a certain folder inside the sitemanager13:27
philiKONit's probably zope.ManageServices or something13:27
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instantfoook, will try13:29
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philiKONinstantfoo: no, you use the debug skin and provoke an unauthorized. then it will tell you which permission exactly :)13:32
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instantfoohmm, i try to access http://localhost/++debug++errors/MySite/++etc++site/13:39
instantfooit asks for the password, i hit cancel, it doesn't do anything :)13:39
instantfooand if i type a wrong password it asks again13:40
instantfoophiliKON: i'm accessing it correctly, right?13:41
philiKONyou log in using an underprivileged user13:42
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instantfoophiliKON: hmm i just get to this page where it says "unauthorized" :/13:50
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Subdinohi. I have a (ridiculously :$) tiny improvement for zodb pack code: in FileStorage/, replace "if self.reachable.has_key(oid):" by "if oid in self.reachable:".17:23
Subdinothe latter is a bit faster than the former on fsIndex objects, because it does not try to unpack the value17:24
Subdino...or is it a bug in fsPack code...17:25
J1mThe former is also better style.17:27
J1mare you a contributor?17:27
J1mBTW, if I had time, I'd rewrite the pack code.17:28
Subdinonope, I'm not a contributor17:30
Subdinobut I had to put my hands in the packing code to understand why is happened to be slow in my case17:30
Subdino(discussed about it on #zope a few minutes ago)17:30
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Subdinomy discovery was that the second GC pass (findReachableAtPacktime) spends a lot of time doing disk seeks to walk the object tree17:32
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Subdinoand as we read whole file once in the first pass (buildPackIndex) I think it would be better to fetch the reference during that pass, so it is a linear read (except for undo objects)17:33
Subdinoand then a recursive read in the dict to find reachable, with no disk read involved17:34
Subdinoproblem is that current data structure is inflexible^Woptimised and refuses to store a list ;)17:34
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J1mYeah, that's why I want to reimplement the packing code. :)17:56
J1mNote that redoing it is ging to be tricky because the data structures one would want to create might not fit in memory.17:57
J1mSubdino, I can easily imagine having to create a secondary temprary database just to manage that the data structure.17:58
J1mAt least for large databases like the onces we deal with -- which aren't necessarily that large, depending on what you consider large.17:58
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SubdinoJ1m: yep, I ran into the memory size problem when I tried the dumb way with a regular python dict as index18:08
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SubdinoI think the 2nd pass can be made completely optionnal, actually18:09
J1mHow so?18:09
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J1mYou mean if you opt out of gc?18:10
J1mYou could do reference counting GC without a second pass.18:10
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SubdinoJ1m: no, i mean that - to me - the secon dpass is not so important18:11
J1mI don't think you can do a reachability analysis without either a second pass or a data structure build on the first pass.18:11
J1mso you would like a way to opt out of gc.18:11
SubdinoI don't plan to remove any object from the site, so that pass is just a merge of the 2 dicts gathered in the first one18:11
J1mI do plan to add such an option.18:11
Subdinogreat :)18:11
J1mwhen I have time :/18:11
J1mI think it would be nice to be able to choose from a number of GC options: 1) no, 2) reference counting, 3) full.18:12
J1mwe also need a multi-db gc.18:13
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Subdinommmh, iirc in python it was chosen to only do refcounting implicitely, and smarter collection when explicitely asked18:13
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Subdinoapplied on zodb, I think the cheapest is getting rid of old revisions and then refcounting18:14
J1mSubdino, no, full gc is done by default.18:16
J1min python18:16
J1mIf using multi-dbs you need to disable individual db gc.18:16
J1mfor a single db, refcounting is a nice middle ground.18:17
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TheSkrillHello, I am new to zope3 and am wondering if zope3 comes with a pagination framework to help split up container views that have many children? Something to handle the next/previous links and such.20:55
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philiKONTheSkrill: nope. but maybe there's a library out there that can do this (z3c.*, plone.*, ...). either way, it's not that hard to do.21:20
faassenTheSkrill: there's a z3c.batching that might help?21:21
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TheSkrillthanks guys, i will look into the z3c.batching.21:22
TheSkrilli'm not worried about having to write one myself just that i would hate to code it then find that i could have used an included lib.21:23
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amaronphiliKON: i convinced management in my company to use zope3 as framework, and to buy your book for me and other developers to come23:10
philiKONamaron: good job :)23:10
amaroni even mentioned i talked with you, and gave your book and site as reference23:11
* philiKON feels honoured23:13
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amaronnow comes the hard part23:15
amaronto justify all those good things i said about zope323:15
TheSkrillcan anyone point me to a good example on making a non-persistent submit form (trying to make a contact form that just sends an email)?23:16
amaronit will be nice and interesting work23:16
philiKONamaron: dunno. what did you say?23:17
philiKONTheSkrill: basically, you'd use zope.formlib.form.Form as a base class23:17
philiKONTheSkrill: you need to define which form fields the form should have, by setting the form_fields attribute23:17
philiKONTheSkrill: and then you need define what should be done when you submit the form, by implementing an action23:18
philiKONTheSkrill: have you got my book?23:18
amaronphiliKON: well it was a long conversation about several python web framework and compared them with zope323:18
TheSkrillphiliKON: thanks.. what is the title of your book?23:18
philiKONTheSkrill: http://worldcookery.com23:18
TheSkrillyes.. I actually do have that book23:19
TheSkrillmay I say great job.. very good read23:19
WebMavenTheSkrill: first or 2nd edition?23:19
WebMavenTheSkrill: good.23:20
philiKONTheSkrill: a form like the one you're describing is somewhere towards the end of the book. chapter 22 i believe23:20
philiKONthe example is about principal annotations23:20
TheSkrillphiliKON: awsome.. I will look for it.23:21
philiKONhey WebMaven23:21
WebMavenphiliKON: hey23:22
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TheSkrillphiliKON: I found it. i will give that section a read this evening. Thanks for the help (everyone included).23:26
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spythonHi, i have a local util with an OOBTree attribute.. when i add stuff to this attribute and restart the server, my added data is gone.. why?23:56
spythonthe util is still there after restart, along with its registration, but the attribute is clean :/23:56
philiKONspython: how do you stuff data in it?23:57
philiKONfrom a browser page?23:57
spythoni add stuff to it via...   getUtility(ILocalUtil).addFoo(foo)23:57
philiKONright. but where do you do this stuff? debug prompt? browser page? ...?23:58
spythona browser page23:58
philiKONthat should be alright then23:58
spythonit does get added when through the browser page, I can see stuff added in introspector23:59
spythonbut when i restart they're gone23:59

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