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| mehemiah | why does zope use it's own database instead of an rdbm with an sql interfase? | 02:38 |
|---|---|---|
| mcdonc | mehemiah: hysterical raisins | 02:39 |
| mehemiah | excuse me? | 02:39 |
| mcdonc | historical reasons | 02:39 |
| mehemiah | i c | 02:40 |
| mehemiah | like they didn't exist? or something | 02:40 |
| mcdonc | zope has been around for about 10 years now, and part of its development was ZODB | 02:40 |
| srichter | mehemiah: well, also object databases map better to web sites | 02:40 |
| mcdonc | but it's more hysterical raisins ;-) | 02:40 |
| mehemiah | like why slackware doesn't use anyother package manager | 02:40 |
| mcdonc | ndeed | 02:41 |
| srichter | I disagree | 02:41 |
| mcdonc | indeeed | 02:41 |
| mehemiah | nice to see someone else with spelling issues | 02:41 |
| mcdonc | haha | 02:41 |
| srichter | I just converted an app from RDB to ZODB in my work and the data structures are much, much simpler now | 02:41 |
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| mehemiah | but then nothing else can get at them | 02:42 |
| mcdonc | it's mostly because jim was productive enough to make his own database, i suspect | 02:42 |
| srichter | he he | 02:42 |
| mehemiah | which is why i find it unsettteling | 02:42 |
| srichter | mehemiah: that's not true; any python script can easily access it | 02:42 |
| mehemiah | import zdbm? or somethign | 02:43 |
| srichter | yep | 02:44 |
| srichter | you can import the ZODB | 02:44 |
| srichter | connect to a ZEO server (like you would connect to an RDB) | 02:44 |
| srichter | and then browse through the database | 02:44 |
| mcdonc | mehemiah: if you don't like zodb, don't fight your gut feeling, go with something else you do like | 02:44 |
| mehemiah | im not familiar with python's back end, is importing big libraries costly? | 02:45 |
| mehemiah | i mean libraries with lots of methods? | 02:45 |
| mcdonc | nope | 02:45 |
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| mehemiah | thats good | 02:48 |
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| mehemiah | i've often wondered what are the differences between all these web frameworks and cgi | 02:53 |
| mehemiah | i mean cgi + mod python | 02:53 |
| srichter | high level features | 02:54 |
| mehemiah | like | 02:54 |
| mehemiah | ? | 02:54 |
| srichter | Zope uses the cgi module in its guts | 02:54 |
| srichter | transaction handling | 02:54 |
| srichter | data storage transparency | 02:54 |
| srichter | HTML templating | 02:54 |
| mcdonc | chicks dig it too | 02:54 |
| mehemiah | heh | 02:54 |
| mehemiah | zope uses its own web server right? | 02:55 |
| mcdonc | mehemiah: zope2: yes, zope3: no | 02:55 |
| mehemiah | then what does it use to bypass cgi? | 02:55 |
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| mcdonc | it doesnt. | 02:55 |
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| mehemiah | so now what | 02:56 |
| mehemiah | now what's the difference? | 02:56 |
| mcdonc | it uses cgi in its implementation but abstracts it out | 02:56 |
| mehemiah | hmm | 02:56 |
| mcdonc | mehemiah: its sort of like asking whats the difference between an apple and a smorgasbord | 02:56 |
| mehemiah | i c | 02:57 |
| mcdonc | if you just want an apple, have an apple | 02:57 |
| mehemiah | well at least that explains why i dont see the difference 'tween cgi and php | 02:57 |
| mcdonc | indeed | 02:57 |
| mcdonc | php is a cgi program itself | 02:58 |
| mcdonc | and is still used that way today | 02:58 |
| mcdonc | fwiw, i've found that usually if you have to ask the question "why would i use zope?" you dont really need zope, you need something far simpler. | 02:59 |
| mehemiah | so i would ask when don't you use php cgi but not here | 02:59 |
| mehemiah | i c | 02:59 |
| mcdonc | others may disagree | 03:02 |
| mcdonc | fwiw, "wsgi" is the cgi of python | 03:02 |
| mcdonc | in fact it's not much more than cgi | 03:02 |
| mehemiah | well, somehow they abstracted session handeling so you don't notice that | 03:03 |
| mehemiah | in this respect its kind of like coldfusion | 03:04 |
| mcdonc | mehemiah: who, the php people? | 03:04 |
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| mehemiah | yeah | 03:04 |
| mehemiah | i mean | 03:04 |
| mehemiah | you just say "session_create()" and that variable is passed on to the next page liike a get variable | 03:05 |
| mcdonc | yup. | 03:06 |
| mehemiah | but you can't quite do this in python | 03:06 |
| mcdonc | in python it's a bit more complicated because there's more than one namespace | 03:06 |
| mehemiah | exactly | 03:06 |
| mehemiah | and cause python wasn't made for this | 03:07 |
| mcdonc | mehemiah: so why not use php? | 03:07 |
| mehemiah | they could jam that method into cgi | 03:07 |
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| pan_ | hoho. 2:00 am and somebody is not sleeping here ;-) | 03:07 |
| mehemiah | im just speculating | 03:07 |
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| mehemiah | its 7:07 in the midwest of the USA | 03:07 |
| pan_ | i see :-) | 03:07 |
| mcdonc | mehemiah: sure. well, yep, python is definitely more general-purpose. | 03:08 |
| mcdonc | you dont see many people writing window manager guis in php | 03:08 |
| mehemiah | exactly | 03:08 |
| mehemiah | wait what? | 03:08 |
| mehemiah | what window manager is there in python? | 03:09 |
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| mehemiah | wait you mean a gui tk? | 03:09 |
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| mcdonc | eg. http://chandlerproject.org/ | 03:09 |
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| mehemiah | i thought that was just a groupware project | 03:10 |
| mcdonc | or games | 03:10 |
| mcdonc | http://www.pygame.org/news.html | 03:10 |
| mehemiah | well that i get | 03:10 |
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| mcdonc | so... whats the question again? | 03:11 |
| mehemiah | its just that it sounded like you mentionend a window manager made in python (shutter) | 03:12 |
| mcdonc | but of course | 03:12 |
| mcdonc | http://www.freenet.org.nz/python/pywm/ | 03:12 |
| mcdonc | (although i did just mean programs meant to run in a window manager ;-) | 03:14 |
| mehemiah | ... | 03:15 |
| mehemiah | im somewhere between drooling and anguish | 03:15 |
| mehemiah | i like fluxbox | 03:15 |
| mehemiah | if fluxbox was scriptable (so you could generate the menues in python) it would be perfect | 03:16 |
| mehemiah | i have often wanted to go to #fluxbox and ask them that | 03:16 |
| mehemiah | i think i'll do that now | 03:16 |
| mcdonc | http://sourceforge.net/docman/display_doc.php?docid=16036&group_id=76737 | 03:16 |
| mcdonc | way old | 03:17 |
| mehemiah | i don't quite get this doc | 03:24 |
| mehemiah | i mean how his pertains to my question | 03:25 |
| mehemiah | fluxspace? | 03:26 |
| mehemiah | sorry just had to read | 03:27 |
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| mehemiah | thanks /part | 03:33 |
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| run|home | RaFromBRC: ? | 03:42 |
| RaFromBRC | yeah | 03:42 |
| RaFromBRC | run|home: | 03:42 |
| run|home | http://www.enfoldsystems.com/Files/desktop-server-4.0.0-Beta-2-7914-py23.tar.gz | 03:43 |
| run|home | http://www.enfoldsystems.com/Files/desktop-server-4.0.0-Beta-2-7914-py24.tar.gz | 03:43 |
| run|home | http://www.enfoldsystems.com/Files/setup-desktop-4.0.0-beta-2-7918.exe | 03:43 |
| run|home | desktop now fere | 03:43 |
| run|home | free | 03:43 |
| run|home | pls use it @ openplans ;) | 03:43 |
| RaFromBRC | :) | 03:43 |
| RaFromBRC | k | 03:43 |
| run|home | need to get blob support working in plone better | 03:44 |
| run|home | happy new year | 03:44 |
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| J1m | Theuni, ayt? | 20:53 |
| J1m | Theuni, should I make a ZODB 3.8 final release? | 20:54 |
| J1m | srichter, ? | 20:54 |
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| malthe | what's this about: Download error: unknown url type: svn -- Some packages may not be found! | 21:13 |
| malthe | 21:13 | |
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| Theuni | J1m: hmm. sure. nothing that really blocks it imho. | 21:25 |
| J1m | OK, so I'lll go ahead and make a final release this weekend. (This is a long weekend here. Monday is Martin-Luther King day.) | 21:27 |
| J1m | ot, I put the version arguments back in the storage interfaces. | 21:27 |
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| Theuni | J1m: ok cool. thanks for the version arguments. i didn't yet get around to do that. | 22:01 |
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| Theuni | i'll be on the road next week and will try to work on the bugs we found in the last weeks | 22:03 |
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| J1m | Theuni, did you end up finding a cache bug? | 22:32 |
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