IRC log of #zope3-dev for Monday, 2008-01-28

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runyagaTheuni, ?00:49
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runyagahaving a nightmare trying to get zeo to work over a firewall01:30
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danielblackburnTheuni: I am using a class that inherits persistent.Persistent and is using the proper PersistentDict and PersistentList types in my object. And the session data is only missing temporarily01:56
danielblackburnIf I breakpoint in my getContent method I see the _p_state is -1 for the object I am storing in the session. This probably happens 1 out of 5 times and only if another request is accessing a different session at the same time.01:59
danielblackburnIt seems I am only guaranteed the data to be correct if I commit the transaction directly after I  assign values to the session data. This is really weird02:01
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goschtlhi i try to change the required flagĀ“s of my interface for a special view with this piece of code Unfortunatly in all my forms now these fields are not required. Where is my error?11:38
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pyqwersrichter: Hi, thanks for your reply on the 404-page topic. Displaying a seperate 404 page without menus would be an option. But how would I get rid of my template?18:27
srichterhow are you registering your template?18:28
srichterare you using pagelets?18:28
srichteryou can register a layout pagelet specifically for "IException"18:28
srichteror specifically for NotFound18:28
srichterthis layout template simply does not contain the menus18:29
pyqwerAh, I see, I did not know that. So, I can register this (empty) pagelet for my Layer and IException/NotFound.18:29
pyqwerAh, I ment, the empty template around the pagelet.18:29
projekt01srichter, pyqwer, we need to re-implement the concept, it returns a root which does not know about it's real childs18:30
projekt01pyqwer, probably a local ErrorReportingUtility does work for you, because the error get catched at the local site error util and knows about the menu items then18:30
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pyqwerprojekt01: Ok, thanks. The simple menu-less solution, srichter suggested, will work too?18:31
projekt01but any usage of a fake root object assignment is just apain if it comes to menu concepts18:31
projekt01pyqwer, yes, but the users get lost in th UI18:32
pyqwerprojekt01: Well, true, they have to use the back button then or I have to use an absolute link (not pretty, though.)18:32
projekt01and th back button is the only one solution for them to return to the application, this is inaceptable for UI which customers will work with18:32
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pyqwerHmmm, but will an exception not happen very, very seldom?18:33
projekt01I'm working on a better application control implementation, but will take a while18:33
pyqwerNormally, it means, the user modified the URL (which he should not) or the program has a bug?18:33
projekt01pyqwer, error can happen very quick, e.g. use the back button and delete the same item again, this will raise in a KeyError exception, etc. etc.18:34
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projekt01we tried to catch all possible errors in an application we've built, but if it comes to the back button, it's a nightmare to catch all possible errors18:35
pyqwerprojekt01: I see, so your refactoring of will permanently solve this problem?18:35
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projekt01I'll implement another UI framework with srichter, this package will be there first, if it fits and is compatible with, we can move it later18:37
projekt01the new UI framework will come to the zope repos too, just keep an eye open for packages called 'zam.*' and 'zamplugin.*'18:38
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pyqwersrichter, projekt01: Interesting, many thanks of your efforts. I'll look out for that. Any previews/documents what it will be about? (just curious)...18:39
projekt01zope application management (ZAM)18:39
projekt01it will offer a plugin concept and is fully customizable18:40
pyqwerprojekt01: Does this obsolete the ZMI? I assume, it plays nice with other z3c projects (z3c.pagelets, z3c.form)?18:41
afd_projekt01: will this make the zmi resemble plone? not in the sense of looks, but in the sense of implementing a site/application on top of the base skin...18:41
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afd_I'm a big fan of pagelets, btw18:41
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projekt01yes, that's our goal, we will replace the zmi18:42
pyqwerMe too. After many effortless hours to customize the ZMI I found pagelets, fortunately...18:42
pyqwerThat's a BIG step forward!18:42
projekt01I hope so ;-)18:42
pyqwerWell, good luck implementing it! I assume, you will announce it on the zope3 mailing list?18:43
projekt01yes, will do so18:43
pyqwerprojekt01: Great, thanks!18:44
projekt01afd_, we write a more generic UI which offers plone or other projects a better hook to implement their or custom work18:45
afd_is this the same project or a different one?18:47
projekt01afd, btw, the only drawack and also the reason why we re-implement this UI framework is, that we like to use our own work, e.g.  z3c.form, z3c.pagelet etc and we like to get rid of all older concepts like and the old menu part18:47
projekt01afd, what do you mean by same project?18:48
afd_maybe I have misunderstood...18:48
afd_because you said "more generic UI which offers plone a better hook"18:48
afd_so that's where my confusion comes, where do plone and zmi mix18:49
projekt01I have no idea, but I guess it's possible to use the new management UI in addition to the existing plone UI18:49
afd_you mean this will run also on zope 2?18:50
afd_I'll have patience and wait for your release, to see what you mean :)18:50
pyqwerI think, the most important task will be the documentation, btw.18:51
projekt01pyquery, are you asking for helping us ;-)18:52
afd_documenting the plugin system?18:52
projekt01Any help is welcome18:52
pyqwerWell, documenting the basic concept. I personally have over and over understanding underlying concepts of Zope3.18:52
pyqwerprojekt01: I'd very much like to at least review the documentation. Perhaps this may at least show you what a commont Zope3 user has understanding-problems with.18:53
afd_I'm doing some bits as well...
pyqwerFor instance, I was struggling with authentication/security the last weeks. Now I think I understand it somehow, but to be honest, I had to read quite some parts of the Zope3 source as well.18:54
pyqwerAnd also some C-parts.18:54
afd_pyqwer: the trick there is not to mistake IInternalPrincipalInfo with the principal :)18:54
pyqwerafd_: !!!!!18:55
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pyqwerOh my. I'd really much like to have know that one 2 weeks ago!18:55
afd_I've had my war with that about a year ago...18:56
pyqwerI was digging into the source and asked myself: Where the hell is the user?18:56
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pyqwerHmmm. And philikons book helps, but only after you understood the concept :-(18:56
afd_I didn't have that book at the time18:57
pyqwerWell, my overall impression is: Zope3 is soooooo cool, but when I read the docs, I feel very silly...18:59
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afd_I think the main problem is that there are no "big picture" docs... even individual packages don't document the big picture, or what part they play in the big picture19:00
afd_most of the time they document what their small bits do19:00
pyqwerprojekt01: At least for this site, you seem to have mastered the 404 problem: ;-)19:01
pyqwerafd_: Yes, you are absolutely correct with that.19:01
afd_maybe that's correct, but there aren't a lot of "big picture documents" (at least that I know of)19:01
pyqwerafd_: True, so the only way is to dig into the pieces and try to work bottom-up until you are "enlightened" with the big picture ;-)19:02
afd_pyqwer: look at z3c.layer.pagel (or .skin.pagelet) to see how to override custom error pages19:02
pyqwerafd_: Thanks, I found that already.19:02
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