IRC log of #zope3-dev for Saturday, 2008-04-12

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pcarduneprojekt01: what is the best package to look at for a general overview of zam?  (including plugins)00:20
projekt01pcardune, each zamplugin provides an app setup00:20
pcarduneprojekt01: do the plugins also provide the other plugins?00:21
projekt01pcardune, the best is probably if I fix one of this zamplugins, i guess the tets are briken right now since I'm working heavy oat ti00:21
pcarduneprojekt01: does zam.demo get the plugins?00:21
projekt01each plugin provides it's own setup in this sample app00:22
projekt01I don't know srichter worked on that00:22
projekt01should I include all in the demo?00:22
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projekt01I could do that right now because I could also use a generic setup for development00:22
projekt01pcardune, do you need it asap?00:23
pcarduneprojekt01: no00:23
pcarduneprojekt01: just wanted to take a look :)00:23
projekt01Ok, will take a look at the zam.demo this weekend00:23
srichterwe are trying zam.demo already00:24
projekt01I review the z3c.contents right now, looks a little complex the built in search form darryl00:24
projekt01srichter, just include all zamplugin packages, all of them work but the test will fail because of some missing externals00:25
srichterok, cool00:26
srichterprojekt01: paul is very excite of us using ZAM here00:26
projekt01great, great, but I'm not surprised since the basic ideas came form you ;-)00:26
projekt01I think ZAM could be a little complex for newcomers, but it's incredible great for custom development00:28
srichteryeah, I hope that zam.demo will help as an example00:29
pcarduneprojekt01: I just ran buildout on zam.demo, and ran ./bin/app but got a configuration error: ('Unknown directive', u'', u'adapter')00:30
projekt01zam.demo is probably not ready for use00:30
projekt01use zamplugin.navigation adn tell me what's happen00:30
projekt01I will fix it ASAP if something fails00:31
pcarduneprojekt01: ok00:34
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projekt01pcardune, just ask if you have questions, I'm working on that for the next couple hours00:35
pcarduneprojekt01: hmm, zamplugin.navigation gives me the same error00:40
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projekt01Ok, will try and fix that00:41
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projekt01srichter, what's the recommendations for using extras_require00:45
projekt01zam* offers the implementation, tests and an app.zcml setup00:45
projekt01I guess we should only include in install_requires what we need for the implementation00:46
projekt01but the app (app.zcml) uses more dependencies whihc are declared as extras_require['app']00:46
projekt01srichter, pcardune, what do you think?00:46
pcarduneprojekt01: I think that's a good idea00:47
pcardunethe way we are doing it is having extras_require for both tests and app00:47
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projekt01me too, but I'm only here always that extra_reuqires is a bad idea00:48
projekt01srichter, ^^^?00:48
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srichterprojekt01: hold on00:51
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projekt01whould be vrey bad to make the zam.* packages depend on every packages only for configureation, it must be possible to use zam.* packages without the predefined configuration00:52
srichteryeah, I think extra_requires is okay in that way00:59
projekt01Ok, will fix that now01:00
projekt01pcardune, hold on I'm ready in a couple minutes01:00
pcarduneprojekt01: ok :)01:01
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projekt01srichter, does install_requires get used all the time e.g. in extra_requires01:12
projekt01or do I need to duplicate the install_requires in extra_requires?01:12
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projekt01srichter, ayt?01:27
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projekt01pcardune, zamplugin.navigation [app] should work again01:31
projekt01pcardune, srichter did you see my mail a week ago about IPasswordManager move from to zope.password01:32
projekt01what do you think could I do that move, nobody answered my mail, I guess it's Ok so, right?01:33
projekt01J1m, ayt?01:33
projekt01can I move the IPasswordManger to zope.password?01:33
projekt01from to zope.password01:33
projekt01It's only a global utility no persistence01:34
projekt01J1m, what do you think?01:34
J1msure as long as doesn't break.01:34
projekt01of corse ;-)01:34
J1mBut you should post your intention to the zope-dev list.01:35
projekt01should I add a deprecation message on the import from the new location?01:35
J1mTheir OK is more important than mine.01:35
J1mwhy do you want to do this?01:35
J1mI should have asked that first.01:36
projekt01I do not need but testing includes the IPasswordManager because of securitpolicy imports them from
J1mwhat testing?01:36
* projekt01 is looking ...01:37 does:01:38
projekt01from import IPasswordManager01:38
projekt01I like to cleanup this dependeny01:38
projekt01also imports from
J1mHm, I think it's probably a good idea to move this somewhere.01:39
J1mIt's not clear to me where.01:39
projekt01I think is a optional part (security.IAuthentication) and not core01:39
J1mI don't think it's a good idea to create a new package.01:40
J1mMaybe this should move to
projekt01As far as I can see only the password manager is required on some other parts of zope from
projekt01what do you think about zope.password?01:40
projekt01just a standalone package whitout any other dependency01:40
J1mI don't think it's a good idea if it's only going to be an interface.01:41
J1mThis is too small to add another package.01:41
projekt01and the implementation01:41
projekt01we have three password manager and the configuration.zcml too01:41
J1mPlease bring this up on the zope-dev list.01:41
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projekt01I did that last week nobody answered01:41
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projekt01J1m, I think a own package for password manager is the best what we can do, this let's every body use a password manager without any other dependency01:43
projekt01what do you think is not good if we do so?01:44
J1mI don't think this justifies another package.01:44
J1mI'd rather see it in
J1mand then maybe move the zpasswd script there.01:44
J1mI'm -1 on creating another package for this.01:45
projekt01does depend on already?01:46
J1mNo,but the only thing that imports IPasswordManger there is zpasswd, which doesn't really belong in the server.01:47
projekt01Ah, I see01:47
J1mMove zpasswd to and then you'll get what you want.01:47
J1mYou'll remove a dependency from both and
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projekt01Ok, sounds like a good idea01:49
projekt01J1m, sam old bad overall testing question, do you know which packages are using
J1mI doubt that anything is.01:52
J1mIt's just a script for setting the zcml password.01:52
J1mit writes principals.zcml.01:53
projekt01Ah, I see, should I add BBB for this?01:53
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J1mmaybe, I'm not sure how zpasswd gets installed these days.  I suspect not at all. :)01:54
J1mIn fact, if you made it a console script, it might be viewd by some as a gift. :)01:55
projekt01Ok, I found it in template01:56
J1mYeah :)01:56
projekt01I can just adjust that import: from import main01:56
J1mworks for me.01:56
projekt01probably there are some custom recipes out there which we don't know about01:57
J1mI doubt that any of them deal with that.01:59
J1mI wouldn't worry about it.01:59
J1mgotta go.01:59
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projekt01have a good weekend02:00
J1myou too02:01
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projekt01srichter, ayt?02:22
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shurikif i have an adapter that implements one interface and adapts another, which interface is the adapter "providing"?03:05
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projekt01shurik, implements03:11
projekt01if a class implements something it will provide that03:12
projekt01shurik, or you can say: a class implements and an instance (of this class) provides03:13
projekt01adapts defines for what objects this adapter could be used03:13
projekt01hope shurik, will read the logs ;-)03:14
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projekt01Theuni, ayt?17:15
projekt01philiKON_, benji, zagy, tarek, regebro or anybody else can you check my last mail (Dependencies) to the zope-dev list and agree?17:20
benjiprojekt01: I don't agree; we discussed this on the list several months ago.17:20
projekt01what does this mean?17:21
projekt01does this install the testing packages on every project17:21
benjithat's part of what we discussed: testing packages should be left in place.  Test what you fly and fly what you test.  Also, test extras are evil (but I don't remember why; J1m can educate you, or you can read the archivces and educate yourself)17:22
regebroThe problem is if the testing packages has a lot of dependencies. i don'17:23
regebrodon't know if they do.17:23
projekt01they bring in rotterdam etc.17:23
regebroThat sucks.17:24
projekt01are you sure rotterdam should live on every server???17:24
projekt01benji, that's not only bad that's just wrong17:24
benjisounds like the tests should be fixed17:24
regebroYeah, rotterdam should not need to be installed just because you have tests.17:25
regebroIf the test packages really need Rotterdam for something, they should probably be split up.17:25
projekt01benji, test belong to test extras at any time, there is really no need to discuss that17:26
benjiprojekt01: read the archives, if you have a new argument, feel free to post17:26
projekt01any package which is not needed at production server has not the be a part if install_requires17:26
projekt01I do not have to read that, I nok the discussions, it's just wrong to install test packages on production server, right?17:27
benjino, it's wrong to install something different on a production server than you tested17:27
projekt01benji, or do you say it's Ok that rotterdam package is on my prodution server just because it's used in dublincore testing?17:27
benjifixing the dependencies is the way to fix that problem17:28
projekt01benji, you don't understand I don't need dublincore at all on my server, other testing packages install that17:28
benjifixing the dependencies is the way to fix that problem17:29
projekt01benji, you really don't understand, do you really think my production app schoul depend on
projekt01banji, my app is tested within during development, my production app does not depend on right?17:30
projekt01right now my production app depends on, that's just wrong17:31
projekt01my production app could be tested with, but doesn't need that as dependency17:32
projekt01benji, I'm pretty sure that your custom app contains the testing code in their packages, my test are separated in own packages for prodution apps17:33
projekt01this makes testing code optional if it comes to deployment17:33
projekt01my fazit; fly what you test, test what you fly is right. But that a production app depends on testing code is just wrong and very critical!17:38
projekt01test code should be optional and extra_requires is the way to go for cut the dependency17:38
afd_sorry, cat over keyboard17:39
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tuxella'lo all18:51
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